My elderly parents had an oil company on a keep-me-topped-up
arrangement. When I found out I knew it needed checking and sure enough
they are hiking the price up by about 30% and taking it by direct debit.
This was Certas but I know the other oil companies do the same. I have
used boilerjuice for some years now and they are great because you
always get a keen price but I can't get them to supply my parents
because you have to order the oil each time, pay up front and you have
to be able to say what quantity you want.

So how do I find an oil company that will supply oil without fuss, just
to keep the tank part full and without robbing my dear old parents? A
modern day problem.

TW

In message , TimW
writes

So how do I find an oil company that will supply oil without fuss, just
to keep the tank part full and without robbing my dear old parents? A
modern day problem.

Presumably your parents use oil because there is no gas locally, in
which case others in the area are in the same position? May be worth
finding out if there is an 'oil club' in the area. Our local club has
grown significantly over the last couple of years, and the monthly bulk
order is sufficient to ensure a discount. Whether there is an option to
request a monthly top up I don't know, but worth asking.

--
Graeme

On 23/05/2018 22:17, TimW wrote:
My elderly parents had an oil company on a keep-me-topped-up
arrangement. When I found out I knew it needed checking and sure enough
they are hiking the price up by about 30% and taking it by direct debit.
This was Certas but I know the other oil companies do the same. I have
used boilerjuice for some years now and they are great because you
always get a keen price but I can't get them to supply my parents
because you have to order the oil each time, pay up front and you have
to be able to say what quantity you want.

It is always a bad idea to tie yourself into a single supply company
since then they have no incentive whatsoever to be competitive on price
and will invariably rip off to weak and vulnerable over time.

So how do I find an oil company that will supply oil without fuss, just
to keep the tank part full and without robbing my dear old parents? A
modern day problem.

How fast do they get through oil? Is there no oil indicator on the tank?
You can get Watchman wireless oil gauges that plug into a mains socket
and show F9876543210 (with 1 and 0 flashing a LED to remind you).

If you visit from time to time can you not just keep an eye on it?

If there is a local buying consortium in their village they usually get
the keenest price by doing a bulk order for as many houses as want some
oil at the time. One single trip for the company and a decent volume
bought so you have some latitude to negotiate on the actual price paid.

The enquiry from the consortium will also help remind them to read the
oil meter and decide if they need some or not.

I never buy less than 1000L. FWIW the local oil companies round here
mostly deliver and accept payment of invoice on 30 day terms.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

I suspect it is the fact that they have to drive to the parents place before
they know whether the trip is profitable that hikes up the cost. its a pity
some kind of wireless level system that can be used to send data to a
company when it really is worth coming cannot be fitted.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"TimW" wrote in message
news
My elderly parents had an oil company on a keep-me-topped-up arrangement.
When I found out I knew it needed checking and sure enough they are hiking
the price up by about 30% and taking it by direct debit. This was Certas
but I know the other oil companies do the same. I have used boilerjuice
for some years now and they are great because you always get a keen price
but I can't get them to supply my parents because you have to order the
oil each time, pay up front and you have to be able to say what quantity
you want.

So how do I find an oil company that will supply oil without fuss, just to
keep the tank part full and without robbing my dear old parents? A modern
day problem.

TW

In message , Tim Streater
writes
In article , Graeme
wrote:

May be worth finding out if there is an 'oil club' in the area.

Remember tho that they can't deliver less than 500 lt at a time.

Whilst true, I have ordered 500l but only received 400 without
complaint or surcharge.
--
Graeme

On 24/05/18 08:54, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Graeme
wrote:

In message , TimW
writes

So how do I find an oil company that will supply oil without fuss,
just to keep the tank part full and without robbing my dear old
parents? A modern day problem.

Presumably your parents use oil because there is no gas locally, in
which case others in the area are in the same position?Â* May be worth
finding out if there is an 'oil club' in the area.Â* Our local club has
grown significantly over the last couple of years, and the monthly
bulk order is sufficient to ensure a discount.Â* Whether there is an
option to request a monthly top up I don't know, but worth asking.

Remember tho that they can't deliver less than 500 lt at a time.


Seems like for a new tank installation, getting on *much* bigger than
you really need would be a good idea. If you could run for a year on 1/2
an X-litre tank where X=1000l you can essentially run it down to half,
then you have all year to fill it up at the best price (which presumably
is summer?)

How big is a typical tank to run a house?

In message , Tim Watts
writes
Seems like for a new tank installation, getting on *much* bigger than
you really need would be a good idea.

I realise this was not directed at me, but a few thoughts anyway. A
larger tank is a good idea in theory, but of course takes up more garden
space and would almost certainly require a new, larger base, not to
mention bunding.

Our tank holds 1300l, and our use is +/- 7000l per annum, so a tank to
hold a full year's supply would be massive, and, taking into account
initial outlay vs buying once a year at summer prices, I doubt I would
live long enough to break even.

--
Graeme

On 23/05/2018 22:17, TimW wrote:
My elderly parents had an oil company on a keep-me-topped-up
arrangement. When I found out I knew it needed checking and sure enough
they are hiking the price up by about 30% and taking it by direct debit.
This was Certas but I know the other oil companies do the same. I have
used boilerjuice for some years now and they are great because you
always get a keen price but I can't get them to supply my parents
because you have to order the oil each time, pay up front and you have
to be able to say what quantity you want.

So how do I find an oil company that will supply oil without fuss, just
to keep the tank part full and without robbing my dear old parents? A
modern day problem.

TW

These days I would do a google search to find suppliers. In the past I
used yellow pages. You could then ring them up and ask.

The number of suppliers will depend on what part of the country your
parents are in.

With a modern more efficient boiler you may find that your parents can
get away with filling up once a year. In general you can expect to pay
less in the summer but other market forces may be dominant. I generally
expect to pay immediately.


--
Michael Chare

On 24/05/2018 09:34, Brian Gaff wrote:
I suspect it is the fact that they have to drive to the parents place before
they know whether the trip is profitable that hikes up the cost. its a pity
some kind of wireless level system that can be used to send data to a
company when it really is worth coming cannot be fitted.
Brian


Many people on oil heating have a Watchman tank sensor which if
connected to a phone dialler will alert the oil delivery company at a
pre agreed oil level but it does make for a 'captive supplier' situation.

On Wed, 23 May 2018 22:17:43 +0100
TimW wrote:

My elderly parents had an oil company on a keep-me-topped-up
arrangement. When I found out I knew it needed checking and sure
enough they are hiking the price up by about 30% and taking it by
direct debit. This was Certas but I know the other oil companies do
the same. I have used boilerjuice for some years now and they are
great because you always get a keen price but I can't get them to
supply my parents because you have to order the oil each time, pay up
front and you have to be able to say what quantity you want.

So how do I find an oil company that will supply oil without fuss,
just to keep the tank part full and without robbing my dear old
parents? A modern day problem.

TW

I run our local Syndicate. Certas is to be avoided like the plague,
Boilerjuice were originally on a different planet, but eventually
realised that offering me lots of personal 'incentives' when all I
wanted was a price per litre exactly as all the other companies
offered, was no good at all. But now, they keep on not returning my
calls when I am ordering, so they have lost any chance.

Each ordering session, (there are three per year), I go through my list
of suppliers, eliminating them gradually as the price falls. For the
last two years, the successful supplier has been the same one, but
there is no guarantee of that. A typical order is for about 45,000 to
52,000 litres. The available discount is getting smaller and smaller.

All suppliers, at least for the first few orders, will require payment
up front, and a minimum order of 500 litres. I have also had deliveries
that came out at less than that without protest, but I would never do
that deliberately.
"Fill-ups" can be tricky. The way they are handled here is that any
such is bumped up at order time by about 10% of the estimated quantity,
and then the value of any that could not be delivered is refunded
afterwards.

There is a company in Essex that will supply low volumes, in batches of
100litres, but you pay for the privilege, it is designed as an
emergency service.

--
Davey.

Tufnell Park Wrote in message:
On 24/05/2018 09:34, Brian Gaff wrote:
I suspect it is the fact that they have to drive to the parents place before
they know whether the trip is profitable that hikes up the cost. its a pity
some kind of wireless level system that can be used to send data to a
company when it really is worth coming cannot be fitted.
Brian


Many people on oil heating have a Watchman tank sensor which if
connected to a phone dialler will alert the oil delivery company at a
pre agreed oil level but it does make for a 'captive supplier' situation.


Which is where this thread started....

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 24/05/2018 12:02, Davey wrote:
On Wed, 23 May 2018 22:17:43 +0100
TimW wrote:

My elderly parents had an oil company on a keep-me-topped-up
arrangement. When I found out I knew it needed checking and sure
enough they are hiking the price up by about 30% and taking it by
direct debit. This was Certas but I know the other oil companies do
the same. I have used boilerjuice for some years now and they are
great because you always get a keen price but I can't get them to
supply my parents because you have to order the oil each time, pay up
front and you have to be able to say what quantity you want.

So how do I find an oil company that will supply oil without fuss,
just to keep the tank part full and without robbing my dear old
parents? A modern day problem.

TW

I run our local Syndicate. Certas is to be avoided like the plague,
Boilerjuice were originally on a different planet, but eventually
realised that offering me lots of personal 'incentives' when all I
wanted was a price per litre exactly as all the other companies
offered, was no good at all. But now, they keep on not returning my
calls when I am ordering, so they have lost any chance.

Each ordering session, (there are three per year), I go through my list
of suppliers, eliminating them gradually as the price falls. For the
last two years, the successful supplier has been the same one, but
there is no guarantee of that. A typical order is for about 45,000 to
52,000 litres. The available discount is getting smaller and smaller.

All suppliers, at least for the first few orders, will require payment
up front, and a minimum order of 500 litres. I have also had deliveries
that came out at less than that without protest, but I would never do
that deliberately.
"Fill-ups" can be tricky. The way they are handled here is that any
such is bumped up at order time by about 10% of the estimated quantity,
and then the value of any that could not be delivered is refunded
afterwards.

There is a company in Essex that will supply low volumes, in batches of
100litres, but you pay for the privilege, it is designed as an
emergency service.


My neighbour used run a syndicate which was very helpful and lead to me
monitoring my weekly oil usage so that I would know how much to order
when he made contact. Sadly he moved house but I did get a list of the
suppliers he asked.

--
Michael Chare

snip


There is a company in Essex that will supply low volumes, in
batches of 100litres, but you pay for the privilege, it is designed
as an emergency service.


My neighbour used run a syndicate which was very helpful and lead to
me monitoring my weekly oil usage so that I would know how much to
order when he made contact. Sadly he moved house but I did get a list
of the suppliers he asked.


That list may be old and need updating. Certas absorbed many local
suppliers, and there are some new ones around. Also, some Farm
Suppliers make oil deliveries.

It is a constantly changing scenario.

--
Davey.

On 24/05/2018 13:15, Jim K wrote:
Tufnell Park Wrote in message:
On 24/05/2018 09:34, Brian Gaff wrote:
I suspect it is the fact that they have to drive to the parents place before
they know whether the trip is profitable that hikes up the cost. its a pity
some kind of wireless level system that can be used to send data to a
company when it really is worth coming cannot be fitted.
Brian


Many people on oil heating have a Watchman tank sensor which if
connected to a phone dialler will alert the oil delivery company at a
pre agreed oil level but it does make for a 'captive supplier' situation.


Which is where this thread started....

Depriving it of its phone connection will sort that.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 24/05/18 11:20, Graeme wrote:
In message , Tim Watts
writes
Seems like for a new tank installation, getting on *much* bigger than
you really need would be a good idea.

I realise this was not directed at me, but a few thoughts anyway.Â* A
larger tank is a good idea in theory, but of course takes up more garden
space and would almost certainly require a new, larger base, not to
mention bunding.

Our tank holds 1300l, and our use is +/- 7000l per annum, so a tank to
hold a full year's supply would be massive, and, taking into account
initial outlay vs buying once a year at summer prices, I doubt I would
live long enough to break even.


7000l / year - that's very interesting - I had no idea...

We had oil CH when I was small, but I don't remember how often it was
filled.

I buy two 900 litre loads a year. 3 bed detached built in the 1980s.

Tim Watts wrote:

Graeme wrote:

Our tank holds 1300l, and our use is +/- 7000l per annum, so a tank to
hold a full year's supply would be massive

7000l / year - that's very interesting - I had no idea...

Looking at boiler juice prices that seems to be about £3,500-4,000
depending on time of year :-o and here's me humming and hawing about
moving supplier again as they want to shunt me up to £444/year for gas
when my fix runs out in a couple of months ...

On 24/05/2018 18:53, Tim Watts wrote:

We had oil CH when I was small, but I don't remember how often it was
filled.

That's because you were not paying for it or moving it:-)

We had coal delivered and a coal bunker. Of course we always had too
much coal delivered to fit the coal bunker [1] and I had to fill sacks
with the stuff they dumped at the side of the coal bunker.

[1] Everyone at British Coal/NCB got free coal if they wanted so my Dad
always took his full free allowance. Of course with gas CH we did not
need it (we did have a coal fire that we used on rare occasions) so he
flogged most of of the spare coal down at the pub. I was ****ing
delighted when BC changed the free coal to a free coal allowance and
just gave him the money.


The coal delivery was every 3 months.


--
Adam

On 24/05/18 09:57, Tim Watts wrote:
On 24/05/18 08:54, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Graeme
wrote:

In message , TimW
writes

So how do I find an oil company that will supply oil without fuss,
just to keep the tank part full and without robbing my dear old
parents? A modern day problem.

Presumably your parents use oil because there is no gas locally, in
which case others in the area are in the same position?Â* May be worth
finding out if there is an 'oil club' in the area.Â* Our local club
has grown significantly over the last couple of years, and the
monthly bulk order is sufficient to ensure a discount.Â* Whether there
is an option to request a monthly top up I don't know, but worth asking.

Remember tho that they can't deliver less than 500 lt at a time.


Seems like for a new tank installation, getting on *much* bigger than
you really need would be a good idea. If you could run for a year on 1/2
an X-litre tank where X=1000l you can essentially run it down to half,
then you have all year to fill it up at the best price (which presumably
is summer?)

How big is a typical tank to run a house?

1500-2500 litres


--
Renewable energy: Expensive solutions that don't work to a problem that
doesn't exist instituted by self legalising protection rackets that
don't protect, masquerading as public servants who don't serve the public.

On 24/05/2018 09:52, Graeme wrote:
In message , Tim Streater
writes
In article , Graeme
wrote:

May be worth finding out if there is an 'oil club' in the area.

Remember tho that they can't deliver less than 500 lt at a time.

Whilst true, I have ordered 500l but only received 400 without
complaint or surcharge.

Why can't they deliver less than 500?

I've looked ad find nothing in law. The FPS seem to think there is though!

Andy

On Thu, 24 May 2018 11:20:11 +0100, Graeme wrote:

Our tank holds 1300l,

2,500 l here

and our use is +/- 7000l per annum,

7,000 l/year flippin' heck! I thought it was bad when we moved here
at about 4,800l/year. Reducing drafts and adding insulation has
knocked that back to 3,800l/year.

Bear in mind this is a big random stone walled house house, at 1400'
and exposed. When the wind picks up in the winter the 38 kW boiler
can barely keep up.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wed, 23 May 2018 22:17:43 +0100, TimW wrote:

I have used boilerjuice for some years now and they are great because
you always get a keen price ...

I've never found Boilerjuice to be better than calling the local
suppliers direct for a quote. In broad terms they tend to be 2p/l
more than the family run local supplier.

I can't get them to supply my parents because you have to order the oil
each time, pay up front and you have to be able to say what quantity you
want.

Are the parents not capable of wandering out to the tank once a week
to read the sight tube and call you when it gets down to a marked
level? A level you know and thus how much oil to order/shop around
for.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In message l.net,
Dave Liquorice writes
On Thu, 24 May 2018 11:20:11 +0100, Graeme wrote:

and our use is +/- 7000l per annum,

7,000 l/year flippin' heck! I thought it was bad when we moved here
at about 4,800l/year. Reducing drafts and adding insulation has
knocked that back to 3,800l/year.

Do you not find it varies with the weather, though? Our highest use was
8262, and lowest 5514, with an average of 6696 over 15 years.

Bear in mind this is a big random stone walled house house, at 1400'
and exposed. When the wind picks up in the winter the 38 kW boiler
can barely keep up.

This is a big granite built house at 700', foot of the Cairngorms. In
many ways it is wonderful, full of what estate agents are fond of
calling original fixtures and fittings, but that includes Victorian
single glazed sash windows etc. Walls are solid, 30+ inches thick, and
cold.
--
Graeme

In message , Andy Burns
writes
Tim Watts wrote:
Graeme wrote:

Our tank holds 1300l, and our use is +/- 7000l per annum, so a tank to
hold a full year's supply would be massive
7000l / year - that's very interesting - I had no idea...

Looking at boiler juice prices that seems to be about £3,500-4,000
depending on time of year :-o and here's me humming and hawing about
moving supplier again as they want to shunt me up to £444/year for gas
when my fix runs out in a couple of months ...

I have been paying 250/month for several years now, and that seems to be
on target for this year. There are two major variables, the weather and
the price of oil, which was 16ppl when we first moved here, has been as
high as 75ppl, but currently around 50ppl.
--
Graeme

On 24/05/2018 21:34, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 24/05/2018 09:52, Graeme wrote:
In message , Tim Streater
writes
In article , Graeme
wrote:

May be worth finding out if there is an 'oil club' in the area.

Remember tho that they can't deliver less than 500 lt at a time.

Whilst true, I have ordered 500l but only received 400 without
complaint or surcharge.

Why can't they deliver less than 500?

It isn't economically viable. Remember there may be a 15-30 minute
optimum journey between customers since oil customers are by their very
nature rural and isolated down narrow roads. That is why you can get a
much better price (or used to be able to) with an "oil club". One
journey to the village and something like 30000L dispensed saves the oil
company a lot of travel time compared to 30x1000L or even worse 60x500L.

I've looked ad find nothing in law. The FPS seem to think there is though!

Andy

If your tank is too full to take the specified load the automatic cutoff
should stop it before it overflows. But TBH I can't see that the 500L
minimum order is ever a burden - most rural oil tanks are 1000L.

I saw one place where it had failed when house hunting. Oil tank in the
cellar with the boiler running and 1" layer of kerosene on the floor.
Very scary indeed even though the flash point isn't all that high.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Graeme Wrote in message:
In message , Andy Burns
writes
Tim Watts wrote:
Graeme wrote:

Our tank holds 1300l, and our use is +/- 7000l per annum, so a tank to
hold a full year's supply would be massive
7000l / year - that's very interesting - I had no idea...

Looking at boiler juice prices that seems to be about £3,500-4,000
depending on time of year :-o and here's me humming and hawing about
moving supplier again as they want to shunt me up to £444/year for gas
when my fix runs out in a couple of months ...

I have been paying 250/month for several years now, and that seems to be
on target for this year. There are two major variables, the weather and
the price of oil, which was 16ppl when we first moved here, has been as
high as 75ppl, but currently around 50ppl.

Plus 5% vat... and rising...
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 25/05/18 01:22, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 23 May 2018 22:17:43 +0100, TimW wrote:

I have used boilerjuice for some years now and they are great because
you always get a keen price ...

I've never found Boilerjuice to be better than calling the local
suppliers direct for a quote. In broad terms they tend to be 2p/l
more than the family run local supplier.

I can't get them to supply my parents because you have to order the oil
each time, pay up front and you have to be able to say what quantity you
want.

Are the parents not capable of wandering out to the tank once a week
to read the sight tube and call you when it gets down to a marked
level? A level you know and thus how much oil to order/shop around
for.


Sadly not anymore capable even of that, and when I looked at the tank I
couldn't find a sight tube or any way of checking the level. there is a
thing indoors in a power socket but it only shows 4 bars on its grey lcd
display so not much idea how that relates to litres.

Logic I s'pose would say that down to one bar there must be room for a
half tank order.

TW

On Fri, 25 May 2018 15:28:48 +0100
TimW wrote:

On 25/05/18 01:22, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 23 May 2018 22:17:43 +0100, TimW wrote:

I have used boilerjuice for some years now and they are great
because you always get a keen price ...

I've never found Boilerjuice to be better than calling the local
suppliers direct for a quote. In broad terms they tend to be 2p/l
more than the family run local supplier.

I can't get them to supply my parents because you have to order
the oil each time, pay up front and you have to be able to say
what quantity you want.

Are the parents not capable of wandering out to the tank once a week
to read the sight tube and call you when it gets down to a marked
level? A level you know and thus how much oil to order/shop around
for.


Sadly not anymore capable even of that, and when I looked at the tank
I couldn't find a sight tube or any way of checking the level. there
is a thing indoors in a power socket but it only shows 4 bars on its
grey lcd display so not much idea how that relates to litres.

Logic I s'pose would say that down to one bar there must be room for
a half tank order.

TW

The tank should have a plate saying how much it holds. Fashion a crude
dipstick, and calculate the approx. contents now. That will be a
starting point for future reference.
In general, the remote displays show ten or so bars. My tank still has
a good supply even when it goes from two to one bar, but I wouldn't
like to go down to zero, if it does in fact do that.

--
Davey.

On 25/05/2018 15:28, TimW wrote:
On 25/05/18 01:22, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 23 May 2018 22:17:43 +0100, TimW wrote:


Are the parents not capable of wandering out to the tank once a week
to read the sight tube and call you when it gets down to a marked
level? A level you know and thus how much oil to order/shop around
for.

Sadly not anymore capable even of that, and when I looked at the tank I
couldn't find a sight tube or any way of checking the level. there is a
thing indoors in a power socket but it only shows 4 bars on its grey lcd
display so not much idea how that relates to litres.

It is probably as 1/4's of a tank. They use a sonic level detector.

Logic I s'pose would say that down to one bar there must be room for a
half tank order.

I suggest you get a proper Watchman wireless level sensor installed it
gives approximate readings in tenths and a Red LED that flashes when you
are down to the last 20% of capacity (there is some safety margin too).

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Watchman-So.../dp/B0032Q8Q64

I prefer the previous model with a numeric display.

They do a more expensive version which sounds an alarm if someone is
stealing your oil too.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Fri, 25 May 2018 17:47:25 +0100
Martin Brown wrote:

On 25/05/2018 15:28, TimW wrote:
On 25/05/18 01:22, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 23 May 2018 22:17:43 +0100, TimW wrote:


Are the parents not capable of wandering out to the tank once a
week to read the sight tube and call you when it gets down to a
marked level? A level you know and thus how much oil to order/shop
around for.

Sadly not anymore capable even of that, and when I looked at the
tank I couldn't find a sight tube or any way of checking the level.
there is a thing indoors in a power socket but it only shows 4 bars
on its grey lcd display so not much idea how that relates to
litres.

It is probably as 1/4's of a tank. They use a sonic level detector.

Logic I s'pose would say that down to one bar there must be room
for a half tank order.

I suggest you get a proper Watchman wireless level sensor installed
it gives approximate readings in tenths and a Red LED that flashes
when you are down to the last 20% of capacity (there is some safety
margin too).

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Watchman-So.../dp/B0032Q8Q64

I prefer the previous model with a numeric display.

They do a more expensive version which sounds an alarm if someone is
stealing your oil too.


There are other brands, too. Mine is an Apollo, and it has lasted
longer than the Watchman did.

--
Davey.

On 25/05/18 19:27, Davey wrote:
On Fri, 25 May 2018 17:47:25 +0100
Martin Brown wrote:

On 25/05/2018 15:28, TimW wrote:
On 25/05/18 01:22, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 23 May 2018 22:17:43 +0100, TimW wrote:


Are the parents not capable of wandering out to the tank once a
week to read the sight tube and call you when it gets down to a
marked level? A level you know and thus how much oil to order/shop
around for.

Sadly not anymore capable even of that, and when I looked at the
tank I couldn't find a sight tube or any way of checking the level.
there is a thing indoors in a power socket but it only shows 4 bars
on its grey lcd display so not much idea how that relates to
litres.

It is probably as 1/4's of a tank. They use a sonic level detector.

Logic I s'pose would say that down to one bar there must be room
for a half tank order.

I suggest you get a proper Watchman wireless level sensor installed
it gives approximate readings in tenths and a Red LED that flashes
when you are down to the last 20% of capacity (there is some safety
margin too).

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Watchman-So.../dp/B0032Q8Q64

I prefer the previous model with a numeric display.

They do a more expensive version which sounds an alarm if someone is
stealing your oil too.


There are other brands, too. Mine is an Apollo, and it has lasted
longer than the Watchman did.

Of course, thanks. Instead of fretting about it I could just put a
decent meter in. Ta.
TW

On 25/05/18 08:33, Graeme wrote:
In message , Andy Burns
writes
Tim Watts wrote:
Graeme wrote:

Our tank holds 1300l, and our use is +/- 7000l per annum, so a tank to
hold a full year's supply would be massive
Â*7000l / year - that's very interesting - I had no idea...

Looking at boiler juice prices that seems to be about £3,500-4,000
depending on time of year :-o and here's me humming and hawing about
moving supplier again as they want to shunt me up to £444/year for gas
when my fix runs out in a couple of months ...

I have been paying 250/month for several years now, and that seems to be
on target for this year.Â* There are two major variables, the weather and
the price of oil, which was 16ppl when we first moved here, has been as
high as 75ppl, but currently around 50ppl.

Now I know you are somewhere in the far frozen North but that seems
excessive. Here in SW, two bed semi, I use maybe 1500 lt per year (CE in
winter, HW only in summer), fill the 1,000 lt tank in summer, to up with
500 lt in DecJan/Feb when there is (a) room in the tank and (b)
Boilerjuice email to say they have a good price today.

--
djc

(–€Ì¿Ä¹Ì¯–€Ì¿ Ì¿)
No low-hanging fruit, just a lot of small berries up a tall tree.

On 25/05/18 15:28, TimW wrote:
On 25/05/18 01:22, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 23 May 2018 22:17:43 +0100, TimW wrote:

I have used boilerjuice for some years now and they are great because
you always get a keen price ...

I've never found Boilerjuice to be better than calling the local
suppliers direct for a quote. In broad terms they tend to be 2p/l
more than the family run local supplier.

I can't get them to supply my parents because you have to order the oil
each time, pay up front and you have to be able to say what quantity you
want.

Are the parents not capable of wandering out to the tank once a week
to read the sight tube and call you when it gets down to a marked
level? A level you know and thus how much oil to order/shop around
for.


Sadly not anymore capable even of that, and when I looked at the tank I
couldn't find a sight tube or any way of checking the level. there is a
thing indoors in a power socket but it only shows 4 bars on its grey lcd
display so not much idea how that relates to litres.

My Watchman shows 1-10 bars. I dont reley on it, I check the tank every
week by putting a dipstick in the tank (black plastic folding surveyors
2m rule) and keeping a spreadsheet of the level.



Logic I s'pose would say that down to one bar there must be room for a
half tank order.

TW


--
djc

(–€Ì¿Ä¹Ì¯–€Ì¿ Ì¿)
No low-hanging fruit, just a lot of small berries up a tall tree.

On 24/05/18 18:53, Tim Watts wrote:
On 24/05/18 11:20, Graeme wrote:
In message , Tim Watts
writes
Seems like for a new tank installation, getting on *much* bigger than
you really need would be a good idea.

I realise this was not directed at me, but a few thoughts anyway.Â* A
larger tank is a good idea in theory, but of course takes up more
garden space and would almost certainly require a new, larger base,
not to mention bunding.

Our tank holds 1300l, and our use is +/- 7000l per annum, so a tank to
hold a full year's supply would be massive, and, taking into account
initial outlay vs buying once a year at summer prices, I doubt I would
live long enough to break even.


7000l / year - that's very interesting - I had no idea...

We had oil CH when I was small, but I don't remember how often it was
filled.

I have noted in the past with a full household including 3 teenagers and
the oil running HW, CH and Aga that we used as much as 10l/day. That
would be mid winter in a 4 bed cottage type building, and much, much
less in summer. Still a fraction of your 7000l/yr

On 25/05/2018 09:14, Martin Brown wrote:
On 24/05/2018 21:34, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 24/05/2018 09:52, Graeme wrote:
In message , Tim
Streater writes
In article , Graeme
wrote:

May be worth finding out if there is an 'oil club' in the area.

Remember tho that they can't deliver less than 500 lt at a time.

Whilst true, I have ordered 500l but only received 400 without
complaint or surcharge.

Why can't they deliver less than 500?

It isn't economically viable. Remember there may be a 15-30 minute
optimum journey between customers since oil customers are by their very
nature rural and isolated down narrow roads. That is why you can get a
much better price (or used to be able to) with an "oil club". One
journey to the village and something like 30000L dispensed saves the oil
company a lot of travel time compared to 30x1000L or even worse 60x500L.

That's why they won't. Not can't... our oil club isn't really any
cheaper than 'phoning around.


I've looked and find nothing in law. The FPS seem to think there is
though!


If your tank is too full to take the specified load the automatic cutoff
should stop it before it overflows. But TBH I can't see that the 500L
minimum order is ever a burden - most rural oil tanks are 1000L.

We wanted to get a small amount as the oil tank is currently sitting on
some slabs while the new man-cave is built (it gets its own room (1))
and didn't fancy the weight on a temporary support. It's OK though. If
the weather had been better we wouldn't have needed any.

I saw one place where it had failed when house hunting. Oil tank in the
cellar with the boiler running and 1" layer of kerosene on the floor.
Very scary indeed even though the flash point isn't all that high.

Current regs require you to have a bunded tank if it is going to be
anywhere near water, or inside a building. I bet that was expensive!

Andy

On Fri, 25 May 2018 08:28:55 +0100, Graeme wrote:

7,000 l/year flippin' heck! I thought it was bad when we moved
here
at about 4,800l/year. Reducing drafts and adding insulation has
knocked that back to 3,800l/year.

Do you not find it varies with the weather, though?

Certainly, summer is about 1cm in the sight glass/week, winter 4 or 5
cm/week but a cold an' windy week will cause a spike to 8 cm or so.

Our highest use was 8262, and lowest 5514, with an average of 6696 over
15 years.

I've not analysed the data that closely, just plot a few graphs, tank
level and weekly useage.

Bear in mind this is a big random stone walled house house, at
1400'
and exposed. When the wind picks up in the winter the 38 kW boiler
can barely keep up.

This is a big granite built house at 700', foot of the Cairngorms. In
many ways it is wonderful, full of what estate agents are fond of
calling original fixtures and fittings, but that includes Victorian
single glazed sash windows etc. Walls are solid, 30+ inches thick, and
cold.

Ah, 700' in the Cairngorms is proably similar to 1400' exposed on the
North Pennines. Our walls are 12 to 15" thick random stone faces but
rubble filled, so even the walls can be drafty! But at least once
you've got those walls warm and can match the heat loss the massive
thermal mass keeps the place cool in summer and warm in winter. We
made the mistake of switching the heating off when we went away for a
few days not long after moving in. Won't do that again, it took about
3 days to get the place back to comfortable.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 25/05/2018 21:18, DJC wrote:
On 25/05/18 15:28, TimW wrote:
On 25/05/18 01:22, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 23 May 2018 22:17:43 +0100, TimW wrote:

I have used boilerjuice for some years now and they are great because
you always get a keen price ...

I've never found Boilerjuice to be better than calling the local
suppliers direct for a quote. In broad terms they tend to be 2p/l
more than the family run local supplier.

I can't get them to supply my parents because you have to order the oil
each time, pay up front and you have to be able to say what quantity
you
want.

Are the parents not capable of wandering out to the tank once a week
to read the sight tube and call you when it gets down to a marked
level? A level you know and thus how much oil to order/shop around
for.


Sadly not anymore capable even of that, and when I looked at the tank
I couldn't find a sight tube or any way of checking the level. there
is a thing indoors in a power socket but it only shows 4 bars on its
grey lcd display so not much idea how that relates to litres.

My Watchman shows 1-10 bars. I dont reley on it, I check the tank every
week by putting a dipstick in the tank (black plastic folding surveyors
2m rule) and keeping a spreadsheet of the level.

That's a bit OTT. Once I was convinced it worked and the readings fell
at a more or less predictable rate summer and winter I was content only
to order more oil when the red LED is flashing. The odd time it has been
a bit marginal when it decided to flash the week before Xmas.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Fri, 25 May 2018 15:28:48 +0100, TimW wrote:

Are the parents not capable of wandering out to the tank once a
week
to read the sight tube and call you when it gets down to a marked
level? A level you know and thus how much oil to order/shop around
for.

Sadly not anymore capable even of that,

Will come to us all.

... and when I looked at the tank I couldn't find a sight tube or any
way of checking the level. there is a thing indoors in a power socket
but it only shows 4 bars on its grey lcd display so not much idea how
that relates to litres.

As some one else said 4 bars is probably quarters, suggest that
Google is your friend and feed any maker, model number etc into it or
search images and see if you can find a picture on the same
monitoring unit.

Same for the tank or measure it and do the maths, 1 l is 1000 cm^3.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Fri, 25 May 2018 17:47:25 +0100, Martin Brown wrote:

They do a more expensive version which sounds an alarm if someone is
stealing your oil too.

Hum, that would be the one I unscrewed from the tank and carried
indoors without the alarm going off...

Or the one that would randomly sound the alarm for no reason.

Not impressed... the level indicator was reasonable but I read the
sight tube once a week and bung the reading into a spreadsheet that
produces a projection (based on the last 4 or maybe 5 weeks useage)
of when we are likely to get to the "re-order level".

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 25/05/18 01:22, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 23 May 2018 22:17:43 +0100, TimW wrote:

I have used boilerjuice for some years now and they are great because
you always get a keen price ...

I've never found Boilerjuice to be better than calling the local
suppliers direct for a quote. In broad terms they tend to be 2p/l
more than the family run local supplier.

Ther are no family rin locxal suppliers anymore. There are about 2 or
three large oil comnies who bought up all teh inedpende3nts years ago
although they still keep the 'brands'

Boilerjuice just subs out to them with about 1.5p a litre lift on top.

I used to get a quote ftom boilerjuice, them get the company to knock
1.5p off it..


I can't get them to supply my parents because you have to order the oil
each time, pay up front and you have to be able to say what quantity you
want.

Are the parents not capable of wandering out to the tank once a week
to read the sight tube and call you when it gets down to a marked
level? A level you know and thus how much oil to order/shop around
for.



--
Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed.