Well, I think the battery itself is OK. Went for a run Thursday
afternoon to charge the battery, then left it until this morning
(Tuesday) with the earth lead disconnected. Reconnected and an easy
start, from what felt like a still fully charged battery.

To recap, if parked with the battery connected, the battery is almost
flat after 48 hours, as in not enough to turn the engine to start. The
courtesy light switch(es) were suspect, but same thing happens with them
disconnected.

I tried Harry's bulb trick again (small MES panel light bulb between
-ve battery terminal and earth strap), and nothing. Tried using an
ammeter. Nothing. Yet current must be flowing somewhere.
--
Graeme

Graeme wrote:

Well, I think the battery itself is OK. Went for a run Thursday
afternoon to charge the battery, then left it until this morning
(Tuesday) with the earth lead disconnected. Reconnected and an easy
start, from what felt like a still fully charged battery.

To recap, if parked with the battery connected, the battery is almost
flat after 48 hours, as in not enough to turn the engine to start. The
courtesy light switch(es) were suspect, but same thing happens with them
disconnected.

I tried Harry's bulb trick again (small MES panel light bulb between
-ve battery terminal and earth strap), and nothing. Tried using an
ammeter. Nothing. Yet current must be flowing somewhere.
Suspect dynamo control box.

I have a morris 1000 workshop manual somewhere. Send me an email and
I'll try and find the relevant info, scan and send it to you.
Bob

On 08/05/18 11:23, Bob Minchin wrote:
Graeme wrote:


I triedÂ* Harry's bulb trick again (small MES panel light bulb between
-ve battery terminal and earth strap), and nothing.Â* Tried using an
ammeter.Â* Nothing.Â* Yet current must be flowing somewhere.

If he has disconnected te battery entirely and put a meter in the
circuit and no current is flowing, then no current is flowing and the
battery cannot be discharging *via any external means*.

So:
Suspect dynamo control box.


Cannot be relevant.

I have a morris 1000 workshop manual somewhere. Send me an email and
I'll try and find the relevant info, scan and send it to you.
Bob

My gut feeling is, that te battery is *intermittently* self discharging
due to old age and crap in the cells.

If its driven about its a toss up as to wehether mechanical vibrations
and shock will leave it in a position where it will self discharge or not.

As I related earlier, my experience was of a battery that appeared 100%
sound one day, and had done for years, and was dead flat the next day.

Replacing the battery fixed the problem entirely.

My point is that not all batteries fail gracefully.

Bits of broken off **** that short them internally, or leaks between
cells can happen suddenly





--
Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the
gospel of envy.

Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

Winston Churchill

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/05/18 11:23, Bob Minchin wrote:
Graeme wrote:


I tried Harry's bulb trick again (small MES panel light bulb between
-ve battery terminal and earth strap), and nothing. Tried using an
ammeter. Nothing. Yet current must be flowing somewhere.

If he has disconnected te battery entirely and put a meter in the
circuit and no current is flowing, then no current is flowing and the
battery cannot be discharging *via any external means*.

So:
Suspect dynamo control box.


Cannot be relevant.

I have a morris 1000 workshop manual somewhere. Send me an email and
I'll try and find the relevant info, scan and send it to you.
Bob

My gut feeling is, that te battery is *intermittently* self discharging
due to old age and crap in the cells.

If its driven about its a toss up as to wehether mechanical vibrations
and shock will leave it in a position where it will self discharge or not.

As I related earlier, my experience was of a battery that appeared 100%
sound one day, and had done for years, and was dead flat the next day.

Replacing the battery fixed the problem entirely.

My point is that not all batteries fail gracefully.

Bits of broken off **** that short them internally, or leaks between
cells can happen suddenly





Nowhere in the question does the op say
"If he has disconnected te battery entirely and put a meter in the
circuit and no current is flowing, then no current is flowing and the
battery cannot be discharging *via any external means*. "

On 08/05/18 12:03, Bob Minchin wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/05/18 11:23, Bob Minchin wrote:
Graeme wrote:


I triedÂ* Harry's bulb trick again (small MES panel light bulb between
-ve battery terminal and earth strap), and nothing.Â* Tried using an
ammeter.Â* Nothing.Â* Yet current must be flowing somewhere.

If he has disconnected te battery entirely and put a meter in the
circuit and no current is flowing, then no current is flowing and the
battery cannot be discharging *via any external means*.

So:
Suspect dynamo control box.


Cannot be relevant.

I have a morris 1000 workshop manual somewhere. Send me an email and
I'll try and find the relevant info, scan and send it to you.
Bob

My gut feeling is, that te battery is *intermittently* self discharging
due to old age and crap in the cells.

If its driven about its a toss up as to wehether mechanical vibrations
and shock will leave it in a position where it will self discharge or
not.

As I related earlier, my experience was of a battery that appeared 100%
sound one day, and had done for years,Â* and was dead flat the next day.

Replacing the battery fixed the problem entirely.

My point is that not all batteries fail gracefully.

Bits of broken off **** that short them internally, or leaks between
cells can happen suddenly





Nowhere in the question does the op say
"If he has disconnected te battery entirely and put a meter in the
circuit and no current is flowing, then no current is flowing and the
battery cannot be discharging *via any external means*. "

Well actually he did



--
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's
too dark to read.

Groucho Marx

In article , Bob Minchin
writes
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/05/18 11:23, Bob Minchin wrote:
Graeme wrote:


I tried Harry's bulb trick again (small MES panel light bulb between
-ve battery terminal and earth strap), and nothing. Tried using an
ammeter. Nothing. Yet current must be flowing somewhere.

If he has disconnected te battery entirely and put a meter in the
circuit and no current is flowing, then no current is flowing and the
battery cannot be discharging *via any external means*.

So:
Suspect dynamo control box.


Cannot be relevant.

I have a morris 1000 workshop manual somewhere. Send me an email and
I'll try and find the relevant info, scan and send it to you.
Bob

My gut feeling is, that te battery is *intermittently* self discharging
due to old age and crap in the cells.

If its driven about its a toss up as to wehether mechanical vibrations
and shock will leave it in a position where it will self discharge or not.

As I related earlier, my experience was of a battery that appeared 100%
sound one day, and had done for years, and was dead flat the next day.

Replacing the battery fixed the problem entirely.

My point is that not all batteries fail gracefully.

Bits of broken off **** that short them internally, or leaks between
cells can happen suddenly





Nowhere in the question does the op say
"If he has disconnected te battery entirely and put a meter in the
circuit and no current is flowing, then no current is flowing and the
battery cannot be discharging *via any external means*. "
He actually said he had disconnected the earth lead. Personally for this
type of fault I would first ensure good earth connections. Is it linked
to the engine block via the chassis?
--
bert

On 08/05/2018 12:03, Bob Minchin wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/05/18 11:23, Bob Minchin wrote:
Graeme wrote:


I triedÂ* Harry's bulb trick again (small MES panel light bulb between
-ve battery terminal and earth strap), and nothing.Â* Tried using an
ammeter.Â* Nothing.Â* Yet current must be flowing somewhere.

If he has disconnected te battery entirely and put a meter in the
circuit and no current is flowing, then no current is flowing and the
battery cannot be discharging *via any external means*.

So:
Suspect dynamo control box.


Cannot be relevant.

I have a morris 1000 workshop manual somewhere. Send me an email and
I'll try and find the relevant info, scan and send it to you.
Bob

My gut feeling is, that te battery is *intermittently* self discharging
due to old age and crap in the cells.

If its driven about its a toss up as to wehether mechanical vibrations
and shock will leave it in a position where it will self discharge or
not.

As I related earlier, my experience was of a battery that appeared 100%
sound one day, and had done for years,Â* and was dead flat the next day.

Replacing the battery fixed the problem entirely.

My point is that not all batteries fail gracefully.

Bits of broken off **** that short them internally, or leaks between
cells can happen suddenly





Nowhere in the question does the op say
"If he has disconnected te battery entirely and put a meter in the
circuit and no current is flowing, then no current is flowing and the
battery cannot be discharging *via any external means*. "

A heavy discharge meter is your friend (but not your batteries, if it
is on the way out, it may expedite its demise).

In message , Bob Minchin
writes
Nowhere in the question does the op say
"If he has disconnected te battery entirely and put a meter in the
circuit and no current is flowing, then no current is flowing and the
battery cannot be discharging *via any external means*. "

Just to be clear, if I park the car for a couple of days, with the
battery connected, the battery goes almost flat, but left 4 1/2 days
with the battery disconnected (earth lead removed from battery
terminal), the battery remains fully charged.

This morning, battery fully charged, I put an ammeter between the
battery terminal and earth lead. No movement. Repeating, with a door
open and courtesy light therefore in circuit, then I can see the ammeter
needle move. Not much, but enough to know it is working. Ammeter is a
standard car 2 inch circular 30-0-30.

Repeated but with a small 12v MES bulb between the battery terminal and
earth lead. No light until door opened.

--
Graeme

On 08/05/2018 16:07, Graeme wrote:
In message , Bob Minchin
writes
Nowhere in the question does the op say
"If he has disconnected te battery entirely and put a meter in the
circuit and no current is flowing, then no current is flowing and the
battery cannot be discharging *via any external means*. "

Just to be clear, if I park the car for a couple of days, with the
battery connected, the battery goes almost flat, but left 4 1/2 days
with the battery disconnected (earth lead removed from battery
terminal), the battery remains fully charged.

This morning, battery fully charged, I put an ammeter between the
battery terminal and earth lead.Â* No movement.Â* Repeating, with a door
open and courtesy light therefore in circuit, then I can see the ammeter
needle move.Â* Not much, but enough to know it is working.Â* Ammeter is a
standard car 2 inch circular 30-0-30.

Repeated but with a small 12v MES bulb between the battery terminal and
earth lead.Â* No light until door opened.


Just a thought....
If you have a voltmeter of some sort - connect it across the 12v mes
bulb in the above setup.
Naturally, there'll be a voltage drop across the bulb when the door is
opened, but is there any volt-drop across the bulb when the door is
closed..? If there is, that indicates that there's a small current
'leaking' through the interior light, via the door-switch.
Car batteries are designed to provide lots of current for a short period
of time, to start the engine. They're not good at long-term supply of
smallish currents... - and the car ammeter won't indicate accurately
down at that level...

Come to that - can you put a test meter across the in-car ammeter?
With everything off there should be no voltage. A sensitive voltmeter
will tell you if there's a small current being drawn from the battery,
even when everything on the car is 'officially' off..

On 08/05/18 16:07, Graeme wrote:
In message , Bob Minchin
writes
Nowhere in the question does the op say
"If he has disconnected te battery entirely and put a meter in the
circuit and no current is flowing, then no current is flowing and the
battery cannot be discharging *via any external means*. "

Just to be clear, if I park the car for a couple of days, with the
battery connected, the battery goes almost flat, but left 4 1/2 days
with the battery disconnected (earth lead removed from battery
terminal), the battery remains fully charged.

No. You parked the car for a couole ofd days with te battery connected
and it did go flat and you parked it with it disconnected and it didnt.

Coincidence is not causation

This morning, battery fully charged, I put an ammeter between the
battery terminal and earth lead.Â* No movement.Â* Repeating, with a door
open and courtesy light therefore in circuit, then I can see the ammeter
needle move.Â* Not much, but enough to know it is working.Â* Ammeter is a
standard car 2 inch circular 30-0-30.

You are looking for milliamps not amps

Repeated but with a small 12v MES bulb between the battery terminal and
earth lead.Â* No light until door opened.

To flatten in 48 hours needs about an amp. Your meter says you are not
drawing an amp.

Ergo its not being flattened by the car.


--
€œBut what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an
hypothesis!€�

Mary Wollstonecraft

In article , The Natural Philosopher
scribeth thus
On 08/05/18 11:23, Bob Minchin wrote:
Graeme wrote:


I tried* Harry's bulb trick again (small MES panel light bulb between
-ve battery terminal and earth strap), and nothing.* Tried using an
ammeter.* Nothing.* Yet current must be flowing somewhere.

If he has disconnected te battery entirely and put a meter in the
circuit and no current is flowing, then no current is flowing and the
battery cannot be discharging *via any external means*.

So:
Suspect dynamo control box.


ISTR years ago now i fitted an Alternator to a Morris summatt or other
worked very well...



Cannot be relevant.

I have a morris 1000 workshop manual somewhere. Send me an email and
I'll try and find the relevant info, scan and send it to you.
Bob

My gut feeling is, that te battery is *intermittently* self discharging
due to old age and crap in the cells.

If its driven about its a toss up as to wehether mechanical vibrations
and shock will leave it in a position where it will self discharge or not.

As I related earlier, my experience was of a battery that appeared 100%
sound one day, and had done for years, and was dead flat the next day.

Replacing the battery fixed the problem entirely.

My point is that not all batteries fail gracefully.

Bits of broken off **** that short them internally, or leaks between
cells can happen suddenly






--
Tony Sayer

In message , Bob Minchin
writes

I have a morris 1000 workshop manual somewhere. Send me an email and
I'll try and find the relevant info, scan and send it to you.

Thanks Bob. I do have both Haines and proper BMC workshop manuals, but
have always been wary of fiddling with the control box. For twenty
quid, or thereabouts, fitting a reconditioned unit could be worth a try.
--
Graeme

Graeme was thinking very hard :
Thanks Bob. I do have both Haines and proper BMC workshop manuals, but have
always been wary of fiddling with the control box. For twenty quid, or
thereabouts, fitting a reconditioned unit could be worth a try.

--

With a half decent meter they are quite easy to set up. With a modern
meter, as easy as falling off a log.

On Tuesday, 8 May 2018 14:22:12 UTC+1, Graeme wrote:
In message , Bob Minchin
writes

I have a morris 1000 workshop manual somewhere. Send me an email and
I'll try and find the relevant info, scan and send it to you.

Thanks Bob. I do have both Haines and proper BMC workshop manuals, but
have always been wary of fiddling with the control box. For twenty
quid, or thereabouts, fitting a reconditioned unit could be worth a try.

Fairly pointless until you know where the problem is. The fault is intermittent and could be anywhere - battery, control box, wiring, or even whatever terminal you undid. If it's not too inconvenient to leave the battery disconnected after each run you'll soon be able to implicate or clear the battery of blame.


NT

On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 11:24:22 AM UTC+1, Bob Minchin wrote:
Graeme wrote:

Well, I think the battery itself is OK. Went for a run Thursday
afternoon to charge the battery, then left it until this morning
(Tuesday) with the earth lead disconnected. Reconnected and an easy
start, from what felt like a still fully charged battery.

To recap, if parked with the battery connected, the battery is almost
flat after 48 hours, as in not enough to turn the engine to start. The
courtesy light switch(es) were suspect, but same thing happens with them
disconnected.

I tried Harry's bulb trick again (small MES panel light bulb between
-ve battery terminal and earth strap), and nothing. Tried using an
ammeter. Nothing. Yet current must be flowing somewhere.
Suspect dynamo control box.

I have a morris 1000 workshop manual somewhere. Send me an email and
I'll try and find the relevant info, scan and send it to you.
Bob


irrelevant perhaps but:

We had a Morris 1000 in the 1960s. I remember that the dynamo was not quite able to charge the battery if all the electrical loads were on (heater fan, lights, and windscreen wipers).

In message ,
writes

We had a Morris 1000 in the 1960s. I remember that the dynamo was not
quite able to charge the battery if all the electrical loads were on
(heater fan, lights, and windscreen wipers).

The dynamo should be able to cope, if in good condition.

Regarding mine, the problem has disappeared, but that is probably only
temporary. Several short and longer journeys, battery connected at all
times, and battery always fully charged.

The battery is probably on the way out, as said by Huge and others, and
I'll get one when this one finally dies. In the meantime, the starting
handle works, if required :-)
--
Graeme

On 16/05/2018 15:49, Graeme wrote:
In message ,
writes

We had a Morris 1000 in the 1960s.Â* I remember that the dynamo was not
quite able to charge the battery if all the electrical loads were on
(heater fan, lights, and windscreen wipers).

The dynamo should be able to cope, if in good condition.

It's a close call if you add it all up. There's the ignition and
occasional brake lights and indicators remember. I reckon you could
touch 22A at times.

Bill

On 17/05/18 01:54, Bill Wright wrote:
On 16/05/2018 15:49, Graeme wrote:
In message ,
writes

We had a Morris 1000 in the 1960s.Â* I remember that the dynamo was
not quite able to charge the battery if all the electrical loads were
on (heater fan, lights, and windscreen wipers).

The dynamo should be able to cope, if in good condition.

It's a close call if you add it all up. There's the ignition and
occasional brake lights and indicators remember. I reckon you could
touch 22A at times.

Even in good nick dynamos of that ear could only just keep up with the
loads..my car fixing period started in the very late 1960s and by then
everyone was retrofitting alternators.


It was the availability of rugged silicon diodes and transistors that
made alternators viable, and signalled the end of the 'control box'

I don't actually understand why alternators were capable of supplying
more current though.

But IIRC they ususally ran a bit faster on smaller puleys so they worked
better at e.g. idle

Bill


--
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.

Adolf Hitler

The classic bike brigade often fit LED indicators etc in a bid to save as much lecky as possible for the main light.

I wonder if its worth doing something similar with a moggy (me, Id fit an alternator)?

Graeme formulated on Tuesday :
I tried Harry's bulb trick again (small MES panel light bulb between -ve
battery terminal and earth strap), and nothing. Tried using an ammeter.
Nothing. Yet current must be flowing somewhere.


Any discharge, other than internal ones of the battery, much be going
out via the battery lead(s). Sometimes extra connections are made
directly to the battery, are you sure you have checked all leads for
any discharge current?

Other than the above, then the most likely issue is the battery, or
secondly that you are being fooled by the sometimes poor cranking speed
into thinking the battery is near flat....

Poor brushes or connections to the starter motor, or a bad solenoid can
sometimes give similar symptoms as a near flat battery. Try cranking
the engine over with the lights on, to see how much they dim. If it
barely cranks over, yet the lights remain bright, look to a starter
motor issue.

On 08/05/18 11:35, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Graeme formulated on Tuesday :
I triedÂ* Harry's bulb trick again (small MES panel light bulb between
-ve battery terminal and earth strap), and nothing.Â* Tried using an
ammeter. Nothing.Â* Yet current must be flowing somewhere.


Any discharge, other than internal ones of the battery, much be going
out via the battery lead(s). Sometimes extra connections are made
directly to the battery, are you sure you have checked all leads for any
discharge current?

Other than the above, then the most likely issue is the battery, or
secondly that you are being fooled by the sometimes poor cranking speed
into thinking the battery is near flat....

Poor brushes or connections to the starter motor, or a bad solenoid can
sometimes give similar symptoms as a near flat battery. Try cranking the
engine over with the lights on, to see how much they dim. If it barely
cranks over, yet the lights remain bright, look to a starter motor issue.

...or a bad connection post solenoid


--
"Corbyn talks about equality, justice, opportunity, health care, peace,
community, compassion, investment, security, housing...."
"What kind of person is not interested in those things?"

"Jeremy Corbyn?"

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
news
Graeme formulated on Tuesday :
I tried Harry's bulb trick again (small MES panel light bulb between -ve
battery terminal and earth strap), and nothing. Tried using an ammeter.
Nothing. Yet current must be flowing somewhere.

Other than the above, then the most likely issue is the battery, or
secondly that you are being fooled by the sometimes poor cranking speed
into thinking the battery is near flat....

Poor brushes or connections to the starter motor, or a bad solenoid can
sometimes give similar symptoms as a near flat battery. Try cranking the
engine over with the lights on, to see how much they dim. If it barely
cranks over, yet the lights remain bright, look to a starter motor issue.

Had this on my daughters car once Sometimes it would hardly turn over
SIL fitted two new batterys as he was Positive it Must be a faulty battery
replacement started motor fixed it

-

In message , Mark writes

Had this on my daughters car once Sometimes it would hardly turn over
SIL fitted two new batterys as he was Positive it Must be a faulty battery
replacement started motor fixed it

grin Well, yes, I haven't really discounted anything!

--
Graeme

On 08/05/2018 10:41, Graeme wrote:

Well, I think the battery itself is OK.Â* Went for a run Thursday
afternoon to charge the battery, then left it until this morning
(Tuesday) with the earth lead disconnected.Â* Reconnected and an easy
start, from what felt like a still fully charged battery.

To recap, if parked with the battery connected, the battery is almost
flat after 48 hours, as in not enough to turn the engine to start.Â* The
courtesy light switch(es) were suspect, but same thing happens with them
disconnected.

I triedÂ* Harry's bulb trick again (small MES panel light bulb between
-ve battery terminal and earth strap), and nothing.Â* Tried using an
ammeter.Â* Nothing.Â* Yet current must be flowing somewhere.

Fit one of these

https://preview.tinyurl.com/yd6xxunr

Its a good theft deterrent as well.

Mike

On Tue, 08 May 2018 13:56:34 +0100, Muddymike wrote:

On 08/05/2018 10:41, Graeme wrote:

Well, I think the battery itself is OK.Â* Went for a run Thursday
afternoon to charge the battery, then left it until this morning
(Tuesday) with the earth lead disconnected.Â* Reconnected and an easy
start, from what felt like a still fully charged battery.

To recap, if parked with the battery connected, the battery is almost
flat after 48 hours, as in not enough to turn the engine to start.Â* The
courtesy light switch(es) were suspect, but same thing happens with
them disconnected.

I triedÂ* Harry's bulb trick again (small MES panel light bulb between
-ve battery terminal and earth strap), and nothing.Â* Tried using an
ammeter.Â* Nothing.Â* Yet current must be flowing somewhere.

Fit one of these

https://preview.tinyurl.com/yd6xxunr

Its a good theft deterrent as well.

It would have been even more effective as a theft deterrent if they'd
used a self healing (poly)fuse instead. All the symptoms of a completely
knackered battery, fixed at the turn of knob. Of course, its
effectiveness as an anti-theft device relies completely on the would be
thief not being able crack the bonnet (hood) open to discover this ruse.

--
Johnny B Good

"Muddymike" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 08/05/2018 10:41, Graeme wrote:

Well, I think the battery itself is OK. Went for a run Thursday
afternoon to charge the battery, then left it until this morning
(Tuesday) with the earth lead disconnected. Reconnected and an easy
start, from what felt like a still fully charged battery.

To recap, if parked with the battery connected, the battery is almost
flat after 48 hours, as in not enough to turn the engine to start. The
courtesy light switch(es) were suspect, but same thing happens with them
disconnected.

I tried Harry's bulb trick again (small MES panel light bulb between -ve
battery terminal and earth strap), and nothing. Tried using an ammeter.
Nothing. Yet current must be flowing somewhere.

Fit one of these

https://preview.tinyurl.com/yd6xxunr

Its a good theft deterrent as well.

Trouble with those is that after using them you
have to put the code back into the radio etc.

Rod Speed expressed precisely :
Trouble with those is that after using them you
have to put the code back into the radio etc.

Would an appropriate era of radio in such a car, need a code?

On Tuesday, 8 May 2018 21:42:34 UTC+1, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Rod Speed expressed precisely :
Trouble with those is that after using them you
have to put the code back into the radio etc.

Would an appropriate era of radio in such a car, need a code?

well you'd need to know what L & M meant


NT

Harry Bloomfield wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Trouble with those is that after using them you
have to put the code back into the radio etc.

Would an appropriate era of radio in such a car, need a code?

No,, but I was commenting on his claim that it's a good antitheft device.

The only other thing is a high resistance somewhere which is intermittent
making the battery not have much guts on a high current. Could you, by
disconnecting the earth have managed to clean the connection perhaps?
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Graeme" wrote in message
...

Well, I think the battery itself is OK. Went for a run Thursday afternoon
to charge the battery, then left it until this morning (Tuesday) with the
earth lead disconnected. Reconnected and an easy start, from what felt
like a still fully charged battery.

To recap, if parked with the battery connected, the battery is almost flat
after 48 hours, as in not enough to turn the engine to start. The
courtesy light switch(es) were suspect, but same thing happens with them
disconnected.

I tried Harry's bulb trick again (small MES panel light bulb between -ve
battery terminal and earth strap), and nothing. Tried using an ammeter.
Nothing. Yet current must be flowing somewhere.
--
Graeme

In message , Brian Gaff
writes

Brian, anything is possible. All I will say is that I remove the
battery fairly regularly, and the terminals are smeared with Vaseline,
which normally keeps them clean.

The only other thing is a high resistance somewhere which is intermittent
making the battery not have much guts on a high current. Could you, by
disconnecting the earth have managed to clean the connection perhaps?

--
Graeme

Graeme wrote:
Well, I think the battery itself is OK. Went for a run Thursday
afternoon to charge the battery, then left it until this morning
(Tuesday) with the earth lead disconnected. Reconnected and an easy
start, from what felt like a still fully charged battery.

To recap, if parked with the battery connected, the battery is almost
flat after 48 hours, as in not enough to turn the engine to start. The
courtesy light switch(es) were suspect, but same thing happens
with them disconnected.

I tried Harry's bulb trick again (small MES panel light bulb between
-ve battery terminal and earth strap), and nothing. Tried using an
ammeter. Nothing. Yet current must be flowing somewhere.

Can't really help, but an online friend had a similar problem. AA said
battery. Halfords thought the same but did not try to sell him a new
battery.............. hmmm.
It seems that stuff can come apart in a battery and flatten it. I did not
know this.
He bit the bullet, bought a new battery and all has been fine for weeks.

In message , Mr Pounder Esquire
writes

Can't really help, but an online friend had a similar problem. AA said
battery. Halfords thought the same but did not try to sell him a new
battery.............. hmmm.
It seems that stuff can come apart in a battery and flatten it. I did not
know this.
He bit the bullet, bought a new battery and all has been fine for weeks.

I think a new battery is the answer, but I'm really only guessing. I'm
no electrician (auto or otherwise), and apart from some logic and basic
testing, I just don't know.
--
Graeme

On Tue, 8 May 2018 17:59:38 +0100, Graeme
wrote:
snip

I think a new battery is the answer, but I'm really only guessing. I'm
no electrician (auto or otherwise), and apart from some logic and basic
testing, I just don't know.

Given that the battery requirements of a MM are pretty small, do you
have a similarly sized battery in another vehicle that you could swap
for a week or so?

Assuming it has a cranking handle, even *another* older battery might
do, or if you don't need to start it, even a motorbike battery would
provide information for your 'is the battery self discharging' test?

Have you mentioned how old the battery is yet (in case I missed it).

Cheers, T i m

On 08/05/2018 10:41, Graeme wrote:

Well, I think the battery itself is OK.Â* Went for a run Thursday
afternoon to charge the battery, then left it until this morning
(Tuesday) with the earth lead disconnected.Â* Reconnected and an easy
start, from what felt like a still fully charged battery.

To recap, if parked with the battery connected, the battery is almost
flat after 48 hours, as in not enough to turn the engine to start.Â* The
courtesy light switch(es) were suspect, but same thing happens with them
disconnected.

I triedÂ* Harry's bulb trick again (small MES panel light bulb between
-ve battery terminal and earth strap), and nothing.Â* Tried using an
ammeter.Â* Nothing.Â* Yet current must be flowing somewhere.

I thought this had a 'generator' with a control box?

Some variants didn't cut-out too well, and it was not uncommon for a
substantial discharge current pass into the generator. Once battery
voltage got below 10V or so the contacts would release.

I suggest you get/borrow a DC current clamp meter to measure current
without disconnecting the battery.

In article ,
Graeme wrote:
I tried Harry's bulb trick again (small MES panel light bulb between
-ve battery terminal and earth strap), and nothing. Tried using an
ammeter. Nothing. Yet current must be flowing somewhere.

Not been out and bought yourself a DVM, yet, then? Even one for a fiver is
better than non at all.

--
*Remember not to forget that which you do not need to know.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Graeme wrote:
I tried Harry's bulb trick again (small MES panel light bulb between
-ve battery terminal and earth strap), and nothing. Tried using an
ammeter. Nothing. Yet current must be flowing somewhere.

Not been out and bought yourself a DVM, yet, then? Even one for a fiver is
better than non at all.

Just bought from CPC, as recommended by Bill. That should help.
--
Graeme

On 5/9/2018 5:17 AM, Graeme wrote:
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Â* Graeme wrote:
I triedÂ* Harry's bulb trick again (small MES panel light bulb between
-ve battery terminal and earth strap), and nothing.Â* Tried using an
ammeter.Â* Nothing.Â* Yet current must be flowing somewhere.

Not been out and bought yourself a DVM, yet, then? Even one for a
fiver is
better than non at all.

Just bought from CPC, as recommended by Bill.Â* That should help.
Remote but do you have a mechanical, as in ticking, clock in the dash.
Had one with defective winder circuit that would sometimes get stuck in
"wind" and flatten battery. Until the clock needed winding no current
was used. Worth pulling the fuse if you have this kind of clock.

In message , GlowingBlueMist
writes
Remote but do you have a mechanical, as in ticking, clock in the dash.
Had one with defective winder circuit that would sometimes get stuck in
"wind" and flatten battery.

I remember them, but sadly, no, don't have one. Good thought though.

--
Graeme

On 09/05/2018 11:17, Graeme wrote:
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Â* Graeme wrote:
I triedÂ* Harry's bulb trick again (small MES panel light bulb between
-ve battery terminal and earth strap), and nothing.Â* Tried using an
ammeter.Â* Nothing.Â* Yet current must be flowing somewhere.

Not been out and bought yourself a DVM, yet, then? Even one for a
fiver is
better than non at all.

Just bought from CPC, as recommended by Bill.Â* That should help.

The next part, which is harder, is learning how to use it.

Lesson 1: don't connect it across a circuit when it's set to measure
current. Current measurements are made in series with a load, and even
then only after careful thought.

Lesson 2: Don't get mixed up between AC and DC.

Lesson 3: Buy some decent test leads, ones where you can fit different
ends: croc clips, probes, etc. The ones supplied with the meter will be
****e.

Lesson 4: Test the meter before use. For resistance put the probes
together; the reading should be zero or near enough. For DC voltage use
a dry battery. For AC voltage I generally use the mains. For current I
use a DC source and a headlamp bulb.

Lesson 5: turn the damned thing off when you've finished with it.

Any more tips, anyone?

Bill