In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Graeme wrote:
I tried Harry's bulb trick again (small MES panel light bulb between
-ve battery terminal and earth strap), and nothing. Tried using an
ammeter. Nothing. Yet current must be flowing somewhere.

Not been out and bought yourself a DVM, yet, then? Even one for a fiver is
better than non at all.

Just bought from CPC, as recommended by Bill. That should help.
--
Graeme

On 5/9/2018 5:17 AM, Graeme wrote:
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Â* Graeme wrote:
I triedÂ* Harry's bulb trick again (small MES panel light bulb between
-ve battery terminal and earth strap), and nothing.Â* Tried using an
ammeter.Â* Nothing.Â* Yet current must be flowing somewhere.

Not been out and bought yourself a DVM, yet, then? Even one for a
fiver is
better than non at all.

Just bought from CPC, as recommended by Bill.Â* That should help.
Remote but do you have a mechanical, as in ticking, clock in the dash.
Had one with defective winder circuit that would sometimes get stuck in
"wind" and flatten battery. Until the clock needed winding no current
was used. Worth pulling the fuse if you have this kind of clock.

In article ,
Adrian Brentnall wrote:
Just a thought....
If you have a voltmeter of some sort - connect it across the 12v mes
bulb in the above setup.
Naturally, there'll be a voltage drop across the bulb when the door is
opened, but is there any volt-drop across the bulb when the door is
closed..? If there is, that indicates that there's a small current
'leaking' through the interior light, via the door-switch.
Car batteries are designed to provide lots of current for a short period
of time, to start the engine. They're not good at long-term supply of
smallish currents... - and the car ammeter won't indicate accurately
down at that level...

Come to that - can you put a test meter across the in-car ammeter?
With everything off there should be no voltage. A sensitive voltmeter
will tell you if there's a small current being drawn from the battery,
even when everything on the car is 'officially' off..

If you have an accurate voltmeter to measure millivolts, it's likely part
of a DVM that can also measure milliamps directly.

I really don't see how you can expect to do any fault finding on electrics
without a DVM. And even one at a fiver is better than nothing.

--
*I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Graeme wrote:
Hear what you're saying, but reluctant to throw 60+ quid at a new
battery unless I'm fairly sure.

I'll say it once more. Take the fully charged battery to a decent
specialist and have them test it. Even Halfords. Some of their guys are
actually pretty good.

--
*I never drink anything stronger than gin before breakfast *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:
On 08/05/2018 18:07, Graeme wrote:

OK, good idea. My multimeter is an ancient Eagle analogue, which is
great for current is/is not there, but difficult to detect minor (ha!)
variations, particularly as the closest scale is 0-50v. I'll have a
go, though.

http://cpc.farnell.com/c/test-equipm...ters-hand-held

Come now! A tenner!

Quite.

I'd actually splash out on one designed for cars. Things like dwell and
RPM measurement. Dwell allows you to check the state of the points without
dismantling anything.

--
*IF ONE SYNCHRONIZED SWIMMER DROWNS, DO THE REST DROWN TOO?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 09 May 2018 08:26:21 +0100, Graeme wrote:

In message ,
writes
You could buy a used one on eBay. Just did a search and quite a few
there

Yes, I just looked at eBay, and there are thousands of digital
multimeters, new and used,

I bought a nice AVO 8 on there!

How much did you pay? RS were still selling them new up until fairly
recently. May still do. Over 500 quid. My ancient one is still in good
nick, having recently replaced the stitching on the leather case. ;-)
But it never gets used. Batteries removed to prevent corrosion.

--
*Why is the third hand on the watch called a second hand?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , GlowingBlueMist
writes
Remote but do you have a mechanical, as in ticking, clock in the dash.
Had one with defective winder circuit that would sometimes get stuck in
"wind" and flatten battery.

I remember them, but sadly, no, don't have one. Good thought though.

--
Graeme

On Tuesday, 8 May 2018 10:42:07 UTC+1, Graeme wrote:
Well, I think the battery itself is OK. Went for a run Thursday
afternoon to charge the battery, then left it until this morning
(Tuesday) with the earth lead disconnected. Reconnected and an easy
start, from what felt like a still fully charged battery.

To recap, if parked with the battery connected, the battery is almost
flat after 48 hours, as in not enough to turn the engine to start. The
courtesy light switch(es) were suspect, but same thing happens with them
disconnected.

I tried Harry's bulb trick again (small MES panel light bulb between
-ve battery terminal and earth strap), and nothing. Tried using an
ammeter. Nothing. Yet current must be flowing somewhere.
--
Graeme

A friend spent quite a few months replacing the main battery on his boat as he couldn't find a fully charged battery that would turn the engine over.
In the end he found out that the cable between the battery and the engine there was a 0.9V drop so he was only gettign 11V at the engine whereas previously he only ever measured the voltage from the battery which was 12V.
Once he replaced the cable the engine started, but the lenght of this cable was almost theb lenght of the boat, so unlikely to be the cause in a car.

In message ,
whisky-dave writes

Once he replaced the cable the engine started, but the lenght of this
cable was almost theb lenght of the boat, so unlikely to be the cause
in a car.

Indeed, car cable is probably about a foot long. Car parked yesterday,
battery fully charged and connected. I'll see what happens tomorrow, 48
hours later.
--
Graeme

On Wed, 09 May 2018 16:48:32 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 09 May 2018 08:26:21 +0100, Graeme wrote:

In message ,
writes
You could buy a used one on eBay. Just did a search and quite a few
there

Yes, I just looked at eBay, and there are thousands of digital
multimeters, new and used,

I bought a nice AVO 8 on there!

How much did you pay? RS were still selling them new up until fairly
recently. May still do. Over 500 quid. My ancient one is still in good
nick, having recently replaced the stitching on the leather case. ;-)
But it never gets used. Batteries removed to prevent corrosion.

I paid just under £100, and it is in as-new condition, immaculate, with
case. I think RS stopped selling them several years ago, although they
were still on the website.

Production stopped in 2008.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
scribeth thus
In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:
On 08/05/2018 18:07, Graeme wrote:

OK, good idea. My multimeter is an ancient Eagle analogue, which is
great for current is/is not there, but difficult to detect minor (ha!)
variations, particularly as the closest scale is 0-50v. I'll have a
go, though.

http://cpc.farnell.com/c/test-equipm...eters/digital-
multimeters-hand-held

Come now! A tenner!

Quite.



I'd actually splash out on one designed for cars. Things like dwell and
RPM measurement. Dwell allows you to check the state of the points without
dismantling anything.

Points?, aren't they for trains to run o??.....
--
Tony Sayer

On Wednesday, 9 May 2018 20:55:51 UTC+1, tony sayer wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
scribeth thus
In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:
On 08/05/2018 18:07, Graeme wrote:

OK, good idea. My multimeter is an ancient Eagle analogue, which is
great for current is/is not there, but difficult to detect minor (ha!)
variations, particularly as the closest scale is 0-50v. I'll have a
go, though.

http://cpc.farnell.com/c/test-equipm...eters/digital-
multimeters-hand-held

Come now! A tenner!

Quite.



I'd actually splash out on one designed for cars. Things like dwell and
RPM measurement. Dwell allows you to check the state of the points without
dismantling anything.

Points?, aren't they for trains to run o??.....

Moggies are from the steam train era


NT

In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
I'd actually splash out on one designed for cars. Things like dwell and
RPM measurement. Dwell allows you to check the state of the points without
dismantling anything.

Points?, aren't they for trains to run o??.....

;-) It's a 50 year old car.

However, a dwell meter still has its uses on a modern car. All coils -
even multiple ones - will still give a dwell reading pretty similar to
points ignition. A dwell meter will also give a reading from (some)
injectors, as it measures the mark space ratio.

--
*Thank you. We're all refreshed and challenged by your unique point of view

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 09/05/2018 16:39, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


I really don't see how you can expect to do any fault finding on electrics
without a DVM. And even one at a fiver is better than nothing.


I keep a cheap one in the motorhome and only use it in dire emergency.
We have about five dire emergencies per trip, and the meter is invaluable.

Bill

On 09/05/2018 11:17, Graeme wrote:
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Â* Graeme wrote:
I triedÂ* Harry's bulb trick again (small MES panel light bulb between
-ve battery terminal and earth strap), and nothing.Â* Tried using an
ammeter.Â* Nothing.Â* Yet current must be flowing somewhere.

Not been out and bought yourself a DVM, yet, then? Even one for a
fiver is
better than non at all.

Just bought from CPC, as recommended by Bill.Â* That should help.

The next part, which is harder, is learning how to use it.

Lesson 1: don't connect it across a circuit when it's set to measure
current. Current measurements are made in series with a load, and even
then only after careful thought.

Lesson 2: Don't get mixed up between AC and DC.

Lesson 3: Buy some decent test leads, ones where you can fit different
ends: croc clips, probes, etc. The ones supplied with the meter will be
****e.

Lesson 4: Test the meter before use. For resistance put the probes
together; the reading should be zero or near enough. For DC voltage use
a dry battery. For AC voltage I generally use the mains. For current I
use a DC source and a headlamp bulb.

Lesson 5: turn the damned thing off when you've finished with it.

Any more tips, anyone?

Bill

On 09/05/2018 16:54, whisky-dave wrote:

A friend spent quite a few months replacing the main battery on his boat as he couldn't find a fully charged battery that would turn the engine over.
In the end he found out that the cable between the battery and the engine there was a 0.9V drop so he was only gettign 11V at the engine whereas previously he only ever measured the voltage from the battery which was 12V.
Once he replaced the cable the engine started, but the lenght of this cable was almost theb lenght of the boat, so unlikely to be the cause in a car.


I helped a friend (a friend in need...) who had a similar problem in a
motorhome. For some bizarre reason the starter battery was in a locker
instead of in the engine compartment. It wasn't all that far but during
a start the voltage at the starter motor was about 6V. In the end we put
the battery back where it should have been and that fixed it.

Bill

In message , Huge
writes

FFS buy a new battery already.

But it would break my heart if I did, and the same thing happened :-)
--
Graeme

on 10/05/2018, Bill Wright supposed :
I helped a friend (a friend in need...) who had a similar problem in a
motorhome. For some bizarre reason the starter battery was in a locker
instead of in the engine compartment. It wasn't all that far but during a
start the voltage at the starter motor was about 6V. In the end we put the
battery back where it should have been and that fixed it.

Many people do not understand volts drop and just how serious a problem
it can be at such low voltages. They base their calculations simply on
the current rating of the cable and even the pros ignore volts drop..

In message , Bill Wright
writes

The next part, which is harder, is learning how to use it.

Thanks Bill. I'm certainly no expert, but have used an ancient analogue
cheapo Eagle meter for years, mainly, I admit, with low voltage stuff
(old toy trains!), but enough to know the difference between measuring
volts and amps. I will, however, shout if/when I'm unsure!
--
Graeme

In message , Harry Bloomfield
writes

Many people do not understand volts drop and just how serious a problem
it can be at such low voltages. They base their calculations simply on
the current rating of the cable and even the pros ignore volts drop.

It is a problem those of us involved with old toy trains are well aware
of, using up to, say, 20v/5amp, but more usually 12-15v/1amp. Even with
longer track lengths (36 inches) and good, tight rail connections, the
difference across an oval can be substantial, so multiple feeds are
required, using good quality heavy duty wiring, with soldered
connections. None of you needed to know that :-)

--
Graeme

On Thu, 10 May 2018 08:53:16 +0100, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

on 10/05/2018, Bill Wright supposed :
I helped a friend (a friend in need...) who had a similar problem in a
motorhome. For some bizarre reason the starter battery was in a locker
instead of in the engine compartment. It wasn't all that far but during a
start the voltage at the starter motor was about 6V. In the end we put the
battery back where it should have been and that fixed it.

Many people do not understand volts drop and just how serious a problem
it can be at such low voltages. They base their calculations simply on
the current rating of the cable and even the pros ignore volts drop..

The good RC car racers do as they often go as far as soldering
directly the things like the speed controller to the motor and even to
the batteries using the shortest lengths of the largest CSA and best
quality copper wire that fits. As you say, if you only have 7.2V in
the first place ...

When I made up some extension leads for my electric outboard motor
(because for good boat trim I needed the batteries in the bow) I used
quality, copper, stranded starter motor / welding cable that was
probably 6 x the CSA of the original outboard cables.

When I built my electric endurance racing 'motorbike', even though the
main battery cable was pretty heavy, I was able to use the voltage
drop over it to drive a mini DVM calibrated in Amps.

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:
Lesson 3: Buy some decent test leads, ones where you can fit different
ends: croc clips, probes, etc. The ones supplied with the meter will be
****e.

Yup - even my pretty expensive Fluke came with near rigid PVC leads and
silly probes. Naturally, Fluke sell a kit of decent ones.

(The as supplied probes were so large they were only of use on big
terminals - near useless for electronics.)

--
*Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
on 10/05/2018, Bill Wright supposed :
I helped a friend (a friend in need...) who had a similar problem in a
motorhome. For some bizarre reason the starter battery was in a
locker instead of in the engine compartment. It wasn't all that far
but during a start the voltage at the starter motor was about 6V. In
the end we put the battery back where it should have been and that
fixed it.

Many people do not understand volts drop and just how serious a problem
it can be at such low voltages. They base their calculations simply on
the current rating of the cable and even the pros ignore volts drop..

I keep trying to persuade members of my old car club to measure voltage
drop directly - ie across either ends of the cable. Which may mean
extending one of the test leads. Which then isolates just where the drop
is occurring - 'live' or ground.
And that open circuit measurements are pretty useless - you need to
measure under load. But am whistling into the wind. ;-)

--
*Frustration is trying to find your glasses without your glasses.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 10 May 2018 09:58:43 +0100, Graeme
wrote:

In message , Bill Wright
writes

The next part, which is harder, is learning how to use it.

Thanks Bill. I'm certainly no expert, but have used an ancient analogue
cheapo Eagle meter for years, mainly, I admit, with low voltage stuff
(old toy trains!), but enough to know the difference between measuring
volts and amps. I will, however, shout if/when I'm unsure!

One to be careful of is not having it on Amps when measuring Volts ...
or having it on a too low range when measuring Amps (although some are
fuse protected).

So, if say you are looking for a very low current drain but there is
an initial inrush current as you first make the circuit with the meter
(in series) ... keep the meter clips shorted together as you first
hook up (low voltage stuff only etc).

This wouldn't apply to you MM but a mate texted me a while ago asking
if a 20mA drain would flatten a battery over a few days. I said it
probably would but suggested he leave the meter in place for say half
an hour and check again. He texted back to say it dropped back to
next-to-nothing after 20 mins or so. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

In article , Harry Bloomfield harry.m1byt@N
OSPAM.tiscali.co.uk scribeth thus
on 10/05/2018, Bill Wright supposed :
I helped a friend (a friend in need...) who had a similar problem in a
motorhome. For some bizarre reason the starter battery was in a locker
instead of in the engine compartment. It wasn't all that far but during a
start the voltage at the starter motor was about 6V. In the end we put the
battery back where it should have been and that fixed it.

Many people do not understand volts drop and just how serious a problem
it can be at such low voltages. They base their calculations simply on
the current rating of the cable and even the pros ignore volts drop..

Me Audi A6 has a boot mounted battery and thats right at the back with
some sort of switch relay in line but still works fine, pretty thick
cables tho...
--
Tony Sayer

On Thu, 10 May 2018 00:01:35 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
I'd actually splash out on one designed for cars. Things like dwell and
RPM measurement. Dwell allows you to check the state of the points without
dismantling anything.

Points?, aren't they for trains to run o??.....

;-) It's a 50 year old car.

However, a dwell meter still has its uses on a modern car. All coils -
even multiple ones - will still give a dwell reading pretty similar to
points ignition. A dwell meter will also give a reading from (some)
injectors, as it measures the mark space ratio.

You might struggle to get a signal for a dwell reading from a coil on plug
system without a break out adaptor, sourciing the connectors for both genders
could be a problem too.

Plus the question is what you'd do with the reading when the dwell isn't even
specified by the manufacturer and probably won't have been for anything since
the '59 Mini went points free sometime in the 1990's

Anyone with any sense at wanting semi-reliable transport would have fitted
contactless electronic ignition to their 'classic' at least two or three decades
ago. Perhaps they prefer to **** about under their cars rather than driving
them. Other than washing and waxing every bit of maintenance on our classics
is done over less than two days per year per vehicle , that's all maintenance,
laying up for the winter, getting the MOT and recommissioning. They start on
the button every time and touch wood they have never failed at the roadside.

Not sure about more recent kit (only seen throttle angle percentage on my
generic scanner) but some pre-OBD diagnostic kit could display the injection
pulse on time it was actually commanding. But while you could measure the
actual the actual pulse at the injector it was still no guarantee the injector
actually opened and metered fuel, only removing the injectors and seeing the
spray pattern and measuring the fuel dispensed could eliminate injector
problems.

--

On Thu, 10 May 2018 12:39:00 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

In article , Harry Bloomfield harry.m1byt@N
OSPAM.tiscali.co.uk scribeth thus
on 10/05/2018, Bill Wright supposed :
I helped a friend (a friend in need...) who had a similar problem in a
motorhome. For some bizarre reason the starter battery was in a locker
instead of in the engine compartment. It wasn't all that far but
during a start the voltage at the starter motor was about 6V. In the
end we put the battery back where it should have been and that fixed
it.

Many people do not understand volts drop and just how serious a problem
it can be at such low voltages. They base their calculations simply on
the current rating of the cable and even the pros ignore volts drop..

Me Audi A6 has a boot mounted battery and thats right at the back with
some sort of switch relay in line but still works fine, pretty thick
cables tho...

The original Mini had battery in the boot (a sod to top up). Of course,
the cable didn't have to be all that long to reach the front...!

(to get guaranteed weight over the back wheels, which tended to lock up
when braking)



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Thursday, 10 May 2018 03:05:18 UTC+1, Bill Wright wrote:
On 09/05/2018 11:17, Graeme wrote:
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Â* Graeme wrote:
I triedÂ* Harry's bulb trick again (small MES panel light bulb between
-ve battery terminal and earth strap), and nothing.Â* Tried using an
ammeter.Â* Nothing.Â* Yet current must be flowing somewhere.

Not been out and bought yourself a DVM, yet, then? Even one for a
fiver is
better than non at all.

Just bought from CPC, as recommended by Bill.Â* That should help.

The next part, which is harder, is learning how to use it.

Lesson 1: don't connect it across a circuit when it's set to measure
current. Current measurements are made in series with a load, and even
then only after careful thought.

Lesson 2: Don't get mixed up between AC and DC.

Lesson 3: Buy some decent test leads, ones where you can fit different
ends: croc clips, probes, etc. The ones supplied with the meter will be
****e.

Lesson 4: Test the meter before use. For resistance put the probes
together; the reading should be zero or near enough. For DC voltage use
a dry battery. For AC voltage I generally use the mains. For current I
use a DC source and a headlamp bulb.

Lesson 5: turn the damned thing off when you've finished with it.

Any more tips, anyone?

Bill

Lesson 6: Learn what continuity is :- It does not mean short circuit or zero resistance, in fact most report a bleep if the resistance is less than 50 ohms

Lesson 7: know how to replace the internal fuse and keep a spare fuse especailly if it't 2 amps or less.

Lesson 8: Think about what you expect to see on the display before doing the test.

On 10/05/2018 14:20, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 10 May 2018 12:39:00 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

In article , Harry Bloomfield harry.m1byt@N
OSPAM.tiscali.co.uk scribeth thus
on 10/05/2018, Bill Wright supposed :
I helped a friend (a friend in need...) who had a similar problem in a
motorhome. For some bizarre reason the starter battery was in a locker
instead of in the engine compartment. It wasn't all that far but
during a start the voltage at the starter motor was about 6V. In the
end we put the battery back where it should have been and that fixed
it.

Many people do not understand volts drop and just how serious a problem
it can be at such low voltages. They base their calculations simply on
the current rating of the cable and even the pros ignore volts drop..

Me Audi A6 has a boot mounted battery and thats right at the back with
some sort of switch relay in line but still works fine, pretty thick
cables tho...

The original Mini had battery in the boot (a sod to top up). Of course,
the cable didn't have to be all that long to reach the front...!

I think the Mini Van had it under the driver's seat or nearby - I know
the driver had to reach around to operate the starter (if you excuse the
expression).

--
Max Demian

In article ,
The Other Mike wrote:
However, a dwell meter still has its uses on a modern car. All coils -
even multiple ones - will still give a dwell reading pretty similar to
points ignition. A dwell meter will also give a reading from (some)
injectors, as it measures the mark space ratio.

You might struggle to get a signal for a dwell reading from a coil on
plug system without a break out adaptor, sourciing the connectors for
both genders could be a problem too.

You can generally probe the back of the connector.

Plus the question is what you'd do with the reading when the dwell isn't
even specified by the manufacturer and probably won't have been for
anything since the '59 Mini went points free sometime in the 1990's

You're not looking for an exact figure since it can't be adjusted anyway.
Just something in the ballpark for fault finding.

Anyone with any sense at wanting semi-reliable transport would have
fitted contactless electronic ignition to their 'classic' at least two
or three decades ago. Perhaps they prefer to **** about under their
cars rather than driving them. Other than washing and waxing every bit
of maintenance on our classics is done over less than two days per year
per vehicle , that's all maintenance, laying up for the winter, getting
the MOT and recommissioning. They start on the button every time and
touch wood they have never failed at the roadside.

You'll be saying a contact less system can't fail? They can and do. And
being able to fault find that can be useful.

Not sure about more recent kit (only seen throttle angle percentage on
my generic scanner) but some pre-OBD diagnostic kit could display the
injection pulse on time it was actually commanding. But while you
could measure the actual the actual pulse at the injector it was still
no guarantee the injector actually opened and metered fuel, only
removing the injectors and seeing the spray pattern and measuring the
fuel dispensed could eliminate injector problems.

You can use a noid light, neon, or even a LED to see the injector firing
at low revs as they will flash. A dwell meter, however, will work at any
revs. Unlike the lamps which will appear to be on all the time at higher
revs.

Of course a 'scope is far more use for all of that. But is even more
difficult to learn than a DVM.

The snag with a lot of diagnostics is they can tell you what the ECU is
trying to do, but not necessarily if that function is being carried out
properly.

--
*I must always remember that I'm unique, just like everyone else. *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 10/05/2018 10:04, Graeme wrote:

It is a problem those of us involved with old toy trains are well aware
of, using up to, say, 20v/5amp, but more usually 12-15v/1amp.Â* Even with
longer track lengths (36 inches) and good, tight rail connections, the
difference across an oval can be substantial,

An oval? I thought it was two semicircles connected by two straights?
For an oval you'd need an infinite range of differently curved tracks,
wouldn't you?

Bill

In article ,
Bob Eager wrote:
The original Mini had battery in the boot (a sod to top up). Of course,
the cable didn't have to be all that long to reach the front...!

(to get guaranteed weight over the back wheels, which tended to lock up
when braking)

Or more because there simply wasn't any room under the bonnet. Mini vans
had it behind the driver's seat.

But away from engine heat is actually the most sensible place for a
battery.

--
*Sometimes I wake up grumpy; Other times I let him sleep.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

12 or 24V microwave ovens draw 45 or 90A. The cables need to be very
thick and very short or the oven says 'low voltage' and shuts down.

Bill

In article ,
T i m wrote:
One to be careful of is not having it on Amps when measuring Volts ...
or having it on a too low range when measuring Amps (although some are
fuse protected).

Indeed. On one of mine, a replacement fuse costs more than a cheap DVM.
I tend to use a clamp meter first to make sure there's nothing silly, then
the DVM for an accurate reading.

--
*IF YOU TRY TO FAIL, AND SUCCEED, WHICH HAVE YOU DONE?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Max Demian wrote:
I think the Mini Van had it under the driver's seat or nearby - I know
the driver had to reach around to operate the starter (if you excuse the
expression).

Early Mini cars and vans had the starter switch in the same place - on the
floor beside the handbrake.

--
*If horrific means to make horrible, does terrific mean to make terrible?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , Bill Wright
writes
On 10/05/2018 10:04, Graeme wrote:

It is a problem those of us involved with old toy trains are well
aware of, using up to, say, 20v/5amp, but more usually 12-15v/1amp.*
Even with longer track lengths (36 inches) and good, tight rail
connections, the difference across an oval can be substantial,

An oval? I thought it was two semicircles connected by two straights?
For an oval you'd need an infinite range of differently curved tracks,
wouldn't you?

YKWIM :-)

--
Graeme

Some of us managed perfectly well with an Avo

On 10/05/2018 16:57, Graeme wrote:
In message , Bill Wright
writes
On 10/05/2018 10:04, Graeme wrote:

It is a problem those of us involved with old toy trains are well
awareÂ* of, using up to, say, 20v/5amp, but more usually 12-15v/1amp.
Even withÂ* longer track lengths (36 inches) and good, tight rail
connections, theÂ* difference across an oval can be substantial,

An oval? I thought it was two semicircles connected by two straights?
For an oval you'd need an infinite range of differently curved tracks,
wouldn't you?

YKWIM :-)

I had a ferocious geometry teacher. He would point to an ellipse on the
blackboard and ask the class what it was. Anyone who said it was an oval
regretted it.

Bill

On 10/05/2018 15:37, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Max Demian wrote:
I think the Mini Van had it under the driver's seat or nearby - I know
the driver had to reach around to operate the starter (if you excuse the
expression).

Early Mini cars and vans had the starter switch in the same place - on the
floor beside the handbrake.


As did my two CA Bedfords.

Bill

On 10/05/2018 15:12, Bill Wright wrote:
On 10/05/2018 10:04, Graeme wrote:

It is a problem those of us involved with old toy trains are well
aware of, using up to, say, 20v/5amp, but more usually 12-15v/1amp.
Even with longer track lengths (36 inches) and good, tight rail
connections, the difference across an oval can be substantial,

An oval? I thought it was two semicircles connected by two straights?
For an oval you'd need an infinite range of differently curved tracks,
wouldn't you?

You're thinking of an ellipse. Oval is a much vaguer term.

--
Max Demian