I'm close to clueless about DIY stuff involving cement, so I'd much
appreciate advice please.

The outer edge of bricks of my garden patio are falling away, as you see
from my illustration.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e3ktr0m5d9...cks-2.jpg?dl=0

I've bought a 20 kg bag of ready mixed cement. But I'm not sure how best
to proceed after removing the dozen or so bricks. I assume I should just
even out the earth and lay cement over it, before replacing the bricks
on top. But roughly what depth of cement - 2 inches or so? And then just
press each brick down until its top is level with the intact bricks?
Presumably I should also slap some mortar on the sides of the bricks
before placing them?

Or should I first pack the strip of earth with smallish stones, gravel
or sand, instead of just laying the mortar directly over earth?

Although it's over 15 years old, I'm puzzled how it got to this state,
as I'd assume the builder laid a foundation under ALL the bricks,
including these at the edges. Maybe years of gardening has been a
factor...

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Terry Pinnell wrote:

I'm puzzled how it got to this state, as I'd assume the builder laid
a foundation under ALL the bricks, including these at the edges.
Maybe years of gardening has been a factor...
I should think it's either just compacted grit sand under the blocks, or
was dry laid grit sand plus cement, that's now hardened.

but if you haven't got proper concreted-in edge course, you're going to
have problems from the blocks walking.

On 05/05/2018 22:31, Andy Burns wrote:
Terry Pinnell wrote:

I'm puzzled how it got to this state, as I'd assume the builder laid
a foundation under ALL the bricks, including these at the edges.
Maybe years of gardening has been a factor...
I should think it's either just compacted grit sand under the blocks, or
was dry laid grit sand plus cement, that's now hardened.

but if you haven't got proper concreted-in edge course, you're going to
have problems from the blocks walking.

My understanding is that the outer brick should be set in some sort of
strip foundation and this stops `it` and the rest of the block from walking.
Hopefully someone with experience of monoblock will answer more fully.

ss wrote:

My understanding is that the outer brick should be set in some sort of
strip foundation and this stops `it` and the rest of the block from walking.

http://pavingexpert.com has chapter and verse, but the outer blocks
need at least half their depth bedded into 4" of concrete

On Saturday, 5 May 2018 22:14:39 UTC+1, Terry Pinnell wrote:
I'm close to clueless about DIY stuff involving cement, so I'd much
appreciate advice please.

The outer edge of bricks of my garden patio are falling away, as you see
from my illustration.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e3ktr0m5d9...cks-2.jpg?dl=0

I've bought a 20 kg bag of ready mixed cement. But I'm not sure how best
to proceed after removing the dozen or so bricks. I assume I should just
even out the earth and lay cement over it, before replacing the bricks
on top. But roughly what depth of cement - 2 inches or so? And then just
press each brick down until its top is level with the intact bricks?
Presumably I should also slap some mortar on the sides of the bricks
before placing them?

Or should I first pack the strip of earth with smallish stones, gravel
or sand, instead of just laying the mortar directly over earth?

Although it's over 15 years old, I'm puzzled how it got to this state,
as I'd assume the builder laid a foundation under ALL the bricks,
including these at the edges. Maybe years of gardening has been a
factor...

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

If they're only bedded onto earth, you can simply put a bit more earth down there, whack it down to compact & place the bricks back on top of it. That should last you another 15 years.

The other way is to whack/compact the earth, put a couple of inches of cement/sand mix down, lay the bricks on it, wiggle them into place & trowel a smooth sloped outer edge to the mortar. Leave it all to set undisturbed for several days - it will have zero strength until day 4. Then fill the gaps between the bricks with a mix of cement & kiln dried sand, just brushing it in gently. Yes it does need to be dried sand.

TBH since its lasted ok on earth I'd probably just do the earth option.


NT

On Saturday, 5 May 2018 22:14:39 UTC+1, Terry Pinnell wrote:
I'm close to clueless about DIY stuff involving cement, so I'd much
appreciate advice please.

The outer edge of bricks of my garden patio are falling away, as you see
from my illustration.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e3ktr0m5d9...cks-2.jpg?dl=0

I've bought a 20 kg bag of ready mixed cement. But I'm not sure how best
to proceed after removing the dozen or so bricks. I assume I should just
even out the earth and lay cement over it, before replacing the bricks
on top. But roughly what depth of cement - 2 inches or so? And then just
press each brick down until its top is level with the intact bricks?
Presumably I should also slap some mortar on the sides of the bricks
before placing them?

Or should I first pack the strip of earth with smallish stones, gravel
or sand, instead of just laying the mortar directly over earth?

Although it's over 15 years old, I'm puzzled how it got to this state,
as I'd assume the builder laid a foundation under ALL the bricks,
including these at the edges. Maybe years of gardening has been a
factor...

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

With patios the norm is for the edge/perimeters to be firmly secured ideally on a concrete footing with benching.
The centre is laid on hardcore topped with sharp sand.
So whoever laid them was a ****** of the first order.

So you can either bodge it again or take it up and do a proper job.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBNwgenr0gc

Obviously cannot see the picture, but normally there is a piece of edging
around the ,um edges, deeper than the bricks that retains them in the
correct places.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Terry Pinnell" wrote in message
...
I'm close to clueless about DIY stuff involving cement, so I'd much
appreciate advice please.

The outer edge of bricks of my garden patio are falling away, as you see
from my illustration.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e3ktr0m5d9...cks-2.jpg?dl=0

I've bought a 20 kg bag of ready mixed cement. But I'm not sure how best
to proceed after removing the dozen or so bricks. I assume I should just
even out the earth and lay cement over it, before replacing the bricks
on top. But roughly what depth of cement - 2 inches or so? And then just
press each brick down until its top is level with the intact bricks?
Presumably I should also slap some mortar on the sides of the bricks
before placing them?

Or should I first pack the strip of earth with smallish stones, gravel
or sand, instead of just laying the mortar directly over earth?

Although it's over 15 years old, I'm puzzled how it got to this state,
as I'd assume the builder laid a foundation under ALL the bricks,
including these at the edges. Maybe years of gardening has been a
factor...

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

On 05/05/2018 22:14, Terry Pinnell wrote:
I'm close to clueless about DIY stuff involving cement, so I'd much
appreciate advice please.

The outer edge of bricks of my garden patio are falling away, as you see
from my illustration.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e3ktr0m5d9...cks-2.jpg?dl=0

I've bought a 20 kg bag of ready mixed cement. But I'm not sure how best
to proceed after removing the dozen or so bricks. I assume I should just
even out the earth and lay cement over it, before replacing the bricks
on top. But roughly what depth of cement - 2 inches or so? And then just
press each brick down until its top is level with the intact bricks?
Presumably I should also slap some mortar on the sides of the bricks
before placing them?

Or should I first pack the strip of earth with smallish stones, gravel
or sand, instead of just laying the mortar directly over earth?

Although it's over 15 years old, I'm puzzled how it got to this state,
as I'd assume the builder laid a foundation under ALL the bricks,
including these at the edges. Maybe years of gardening has been a
factor...

Terry, East Grinstead, UK


Thermal expansion and contraction is your problem. The edge blocks
or bricks need to be well constrained and if exposed to midday sun,
you need to allow for expansion.

try Cormaics 'Paving expert' web site for more info.

On 05/05/2018 23:11, Andy Burns wrote:
ss wrote:

My understanding is that the outer brick should be set in some sort of
strip foundation and this stops `it` and the rest of the block from
walking.

http://pavingexpert.com has chapter and verse, but the outer blocks
need at least half their depth bedded into 4" of concrete

There are plastic L shaped devices that can be 'nailed' into the
ground to provide edge restraint for block paving.

A slabbed patio on a proper base generall;y doesn't have the same
issues.

Andrew wrote:

A slabbed patio on a proper base generall;y doesn't have the same
issues.

Yebbut slabs are heavier than blocks, and are often set onto daubs of
mortar, rather than just sand.

Terry Pinnell wrote:

I'm close to clueless about DIY stuff involving cement, so I'd much
appreciate advice please.

The outer edge of bricks of my garden patio are falling away, as you see
from my illustration.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e3ktr0m5d9...cks-2.jpg?dl=0

I've bought a 20 kg bag of ready mixed cement. But I'm not sure how best
to proceed after removing the dozen or so bricks. I assume I should just
even out the earth and lay cement over it, before replacing the bricks
on top. But roughly what depth of cement - 2 inches or so? And then just
press each brick down until its top is level with the intact bricks?
Presumably I should also slap some mortar on the sides of the bricks
before placing them?

Or should I first pack the strip of earth with smallish stones, gravel
or sand, instead of just laying the mortar directly over earth?

Although it's over 15 years old, I'm puzzled how it got to this state,
as I'd assume the builder laid a foundation under ALL the bricks,
including these at the edges. Maybe years of gardening has been a
factor...

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Many thanks, greatly appreciate all of that helpful advice.

Postponing action while the sun shines and instead relaxing with the
Sunday papers!

Terry, East Grinstead, UK