I'm glad to say we have heat again, ya!

Its a Vaillant Ecofit Pure 418, installed in my existing open vented
system, but with a Fernox Omega TF1 filter.

Total installed cost was £1445, that's everything labour and parts,
taking just 4 hours arriving to driving off. So far, all good and I am
delighted with the cost. The guy was happy to let me buy all the bits,
but I let him supply at a similar price to what I could get them for.

My first to quote wasn't happy about installing a Vaillant, complaining
about their complexity of setting up, so wanted to fit a Worcester.

Second one likewise and never even bothered to ring back with a price.

I didn't like eithers off hand attitude nor their I'm the boiler god
and you will wait for it putting in.

Third quote was given on the spot, with just a 6 day wait for install,
plus a nice customer facing, helpful attitude, grateful on the job, to
accept any help offered to save his time.

Harry Bloomfield wrote:

I'm glad to say we have heat again, ya!

On the first day of the year that the air-con kicked-in in my car ...

Andy Burns presented the following explanation :
On the first day of the year that the air-con kicked-in in my car ...

...and also the first day of this year, upon which I have seen a live
fly.

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Andy Burns presented the following explanation :
On the first day of the year that the air-con kicked-in in my car ...

..and also the first day of this year, upon which I have seen a live
fly.

Has the hood down today. But no flies. ;-)

--
*I wonder how much deeper the ocean would be without sponges*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 05/04/2018 16:34, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Andy Burns presented the following explanation :
On the first day of the year that the air-con kicked-in in my car ...

..and also the first day of this year, upon which I have seen a live
fly.

Has the hood down today. But no flies. ;-)

Its not recommended to have your flies down while driving anyway ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Andy Burns wrote:
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

I'm glad to say we have heat again, ya!

On the first day of the year that the air-con kicked-in in my car ...


How do you know? I just leave mine on auto. It does its stuff without
notifying me.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Tim+ wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

On the first day of the year that the air-con kicked-in in my car ...

How do you know? I just leave mine on auto. It does its stuff without
notifying me.
The fan noise was sufficient notification ...

On 05/04/2018 15:30, Andy Burns wrote:
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

I'm glad to say we have heat again, ya!

On the first day of the year that the air-con kicked-in in my car ...

On the same day that I scraped the ice off the van windscreen in the
morning!

--
Adam

On 05/04/2018 14:25, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I'm glad to say we have heat again, ya!

Its a Vaillant Ecofit Pure 418, installed in my existing open vented
system, but with a Fernox Omega TF1 filter.

Did you go for the weather compensating controls? What about split
temperature operation?

Total installed cost was £1445, that's everything labour and parts,
taking just 4 hours arriving to driving off. So far, all good and I am
delighted with the cost. The guy was happy to let me buy all the bits,
but I let him supply at a similar price to what I could get them for.

Did he flush the system carefully? (Like most HE boilers, they like a
nice clean primary system).



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

It happens that John Rumm formulated :
Did he flush the system carefully? (Like most HE boilers, they like a nice
clean primary system).

No, he was happy to accept that my system was reasonably clean, but I
had filled and flushed twice anyway. He didn't sound convinced that all
the obsession with flushing on a relatively clean well looked after
system was necessary.

Rather than the filter he had originally said he would fit, he fitted a
Fernox Omega TF1, because it could be installed in an horizontal or
vertical pipe. Horizontal suited the layout above the boiler better.

The TF1 also seems to be more robustly built/ all brass than the
Magnaclean he had originally suggested. It also seems a bit easier to
service it too. I gave it a clean after a few hours running - it had
managed to prevent some Plumbers Mait getting through to the boiler and
a tiny trace of magnetite.

After the old Ideal was out on my drive, out of curiosity I gave that a
good forward and reverse flush through, to see what might come out of
it. There was nothing at all, clean as a whistle.

Whether due to the new boiler or the TRV's I have fitted, the whole
house seems to be much more evenly heated. I never bothered originally
to balance the rads and the poorly insulated and extended utility room,
with a too small rad, it always suffered from being less than adequate
heating. Probably due to other TRV's being satisfied, it now gets much
more heat pumped through to there.

I have ordered up a pipe stat, to fit on the flow. Intention is to set
that to 60C wired in series with the room stat, to limit the call for
the boiler to a 60C flow, so it stays condensing most of the time. I
have had to set the main boiler stat to 75C, in order to get the HW
tank up to a sensible temperature. A luke warm 55 to 60C is no use to
us and the boiler only has the single flow temperature setting. With
that fitted, the boiler should stay in the efficient condensing
temperature range when just supplying CH, but be able to run hotter
when water heating is called for.

On 06/04/2018 09:27, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
It happens that John Rumm formulated :
Did he flush the system carefully? (Like most HE boilers, they like a
nice clean primary system).

No, he was happy to accept that my system was reasonably clean, but I
had filled and flushed twice anyway. He didn't sound convinced that all
the obsession with flushing on a relatively clean well looked after
system was necessary.


When my new boiler (Ideal Logic combi) was installed over 4 years ago,
it had 2 'power flushes' by the installer, and a magnet/filter fitted.
I've drained and refilled (with inhibitor) it 3 times since, and still
the water comes out black with a good few mm of sediment (I drain the
system from the lowest point into a trug). Nothing on the filter at all.
The black is almost oily - I've no idea what it is but must be coming
from the original radiators (only 3/14 left now).

The system is potentially prone to blockages (6 of the rads take 10mm
plastic pipe). All fine so far, but I'm wondering whether there's any
preventative action I can take before the inevitable.


--
Cheers, Rob

In article ,
RJH wrote:
When my new boiler (Ideal Logic combi) was installed over 4 years ago,
it had 2 'power flushes' by the installer, and a magnet/filter fitted.
I've drained and refilled (with inhibitor) it 3 times since, and still
the water comes out black with a good few mm of sediment (I drain the
system from the lowest point into a trug). Nothing on the filter at all.
The black is almost oily - I've no idea what it is but must be coming
from the original radiators (only 3/14 left now).

The system is potentially prone to blockages (6 of the rads take 10mm
plastic pipe). All fine so far, but I'm wondering whether there's any
preventative action I can take before the inevitable.

It sounds like air is getting in somewhere. No oxygen, no corrosion.
You really don't want to change the water unless needed. As fresh water
contains air.

--
*What happens when none of your bees wax? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 06/04/2018 14:04, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
RJH wrote:
When my new boiler (Ideal Logic combi) was installed over 4 years ago,
it had 2 'power flushes' by the installer, and a magnet/filter fitted.
I've drained and refilled (with inhibitor) it 3 times since, and still
the water comes out black with a good few mm of sediment (I drain the
system from the lowest point into a trug). Nothing on the filter at all.
The black is almost oily - I've no idea what it is but must be coming
from the original radiators (only 3/14 left now).

The system is potentially prone to blockages (6 of the rads take 10mm
plastic pipe). All fine so far, but I'm wondering whether there's any
preventative action I can take before the inevitable.

It sounds like air is getting in somewhere. No oxygen, no corrosion.
You really don't want to change the water unless needed. As fresh water
contains air.


Yep, maybe. Although the system doesn't need topping up as such - a
couple of seconds on the topmost rad a couple of times a year. And
there's absolutely nothing on the magnet.

--
Cheers, Rob

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
No, he was happy to accept that my system was reasonably clean, but I
had filled and flushed twice anyway. He didn't sound convinced that all
the obsession with flushing on a relatively clean well looked after
system was necessary.

The obsession with power flushing etc on a system which worked OK before
is merely a way of hyping up the costs.

--
*Ah, I see the f**k-up fairy has visited us again

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

It happens that Dave Plowman (News) formulated :
The obsession with power flushing etc on a system which worked OK before
is merely a way of hyping up the costs.

That was what my installer said and the way I too see it. There is
always be some sediment in a system and some magnetite, no matter how
frequently it is flushed out. Regular flushing and refilling will cause
its own problems, in as much as the fresh water will have some air and
oxygen in it initial+ly, which can cause some rusting until all the
oxygen and air is out.

In the 30 plus years since the system was installed, I have never
suffered a blockage. Poor flow to some ads due to lack of balance, but
never a blockage or any sort of dirt come out of the system.

On 06/04/2018 09:27, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
It happens that John Rumm formulated :
Did he flush the system carefully? (Like most HE boilers, they like a
nice clean primary system).

No, he was happy to accept that my system was reasonably clean, but I
had filled and flushed twice anyway. He didn't sound convinced that all
the obsession with flushing on a relatively clean well looked after
system was necessary.

No point in flushing a system that's basically clean. You just want to
avoid sticking a new HE boiler into one that has loads of crap
circulating, since modern heat exchangers are both easier to clog, and
also easier to erode with particulates circulating.

I did a thorough mains water flush on my system when I converted it from
vented to sealed and installed the new boiler - that was in about 2012

Probably did this article shortly after:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...ating_flushing

Since then I have cleaned the TF1 out a few times and topped up the
inhibitor. Usually I have had about a teaspoon's worth of sludge
collected on the magnet. More recently after doing some pipework mods
and also swapped out a couple of rads for towel rads, plus quite a bit
of partial draining and refilling, there was a bit more sludge collected
- probably a couple of table spoon's worth. However the system still
seems pretty clean as you would expect.

Rather than the filter he had originally said he would fit, he fitted a
Fernox Omega TF1, because it could be installed in an horizontal or
vertical pipe. Horizontal suited the layout above the boiler better.

The TF1 also seems to be more robustly built/ all brass than the
Magnaclean he had originally suggested. It also seems a bit easier to
service it too. I gave it a clean after a few hours running - it had
managed to prevent some Plumbers Mait getting through to the boiler and
a tiny trace of magnetite.

Yup I used a TF1 on mine - although not the Omega... its worked well.

I have noticed a slight issue, that after a few years you need to torque
up the connections on to the (plastic) body of mine, and also the
service / drain valve, or else you get a slight weep from it. I was
wondering why I was getting a very slow loss of pressure, until I
noticed that the outside of my TF1 was looking a bit messy and felt a
bit "sticky" to the touch.

After the old Ideal was out on my drive, out of curiosity I gave that a
good forward and reverse flush through, to see what might come out of
it. There was nothing at all, clean as a whistle.

Whether due to the new boiler or the TRV's I have fitted, the whole
house seems to be much more evenly heated. I never bothered originally
to balance the rads and the poorly insulated and extended utility room,
with a too small rad, it always suffered from being less than adequate
heating. Probably due to other TRV's being satisfied, it now gets much
more heat pumped through to there.

It might also be the better modulation range on the new boiler -
allowing it to remain under the set point limit temp for a wider range
of load conditions. So you get longer less powerful burns, and less
overshoot etc.

I have ordered up a pipe stat, to fit on the flow. Intention is to set
that to 60C wired in series with the room stat, to limit the call for
the boiler to a 60C flow, so it stays condensing most of the time. I

Won't that just make for more cycling?

have had to set the main boiler stat to 75C, in order to get the HW tank
up to a sensible temperature. A luke warm 55 to 60C is no use to us and
the boiler only has the single flow temperature setting. With that
fitted, the boiler should stay in the efficient condensing temperature
range when just supplying CH, but be able to run hotter when water
heating is called for.

That's where controls like the VR470 come into their own... you can set
a fixed flow temp for the HW, and then leave the CH flow temp at the
whim of the outside temperature.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm used his keyboard to write :
I have ordered up a pipe stat, to fit on the flow. Intention is to set
that to 60C wired in series with the room stat, to limit the call for
the boiler to a 60C flow, so it stays condensing most of the time. I

Won't that just make for more cycling?

That is a possibility - but it depends on the hysteresis of the pipe
stat. Its a bimetal type, but Danfoss don't spec. the hysteris, only
the setable range. I'm hoping it will cycle no more than it would
anyway, operating only on the room stat.

Its a Danfoss 041E0010.

On Saturday, 7 April 2018 16:42:08 UTC+1, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
John Rumm used his keyboard to write :
I have ordered up a pipe stat, to fit on the flow. Intention is to set
that to 60C wired in series with the room stat, to limit the call for
the boiler to a 60C flow, so it stays condensing most of the time. I

Won't that just make for more cycling?

That is a possibility - but it depends on the hysteresis of the pipe
stat. Its a bimetal type, but Danfoss don't spec. the hysteris, only
the setable range. I'm hoping it will cycle no more than it would
anyway, operating only on the room stat.

Its a Danfoss 041E0010.

since it stops the heating cycles sooner, more cycles are inevitable. Keeping the boiler in condensing mode is far more beneficial than the small downside of more cycling.


NT