We've got wooden fence post stub which is set in a sizeable concrete
lump. It is broken off 'flush' at the surface- a lorry hit the fence.

Obviously I could break up the concrete etc but, owing to a hedge, that
isn't a pracical option. Plus the concrete lump is large- I put it in in
about 2001 and I'm sure it is at least 18", even 24" deep- I wanted the
fence to be solid. (Another part stopped a 'run a way' car a few years
ago.)

Even though the post was 'tanalised' and soaked in preservative before
being inserted the stub seems to have deteriorated- how far 'down' I
don't know.

A 'meta post' insert or similar isn't really an option, not man enough,
nor is another hole due to access issues (the hedge).

I'd like to remove the stub and 'slide' a new post into the existing
hole, partly due to access issues and also as the post has been hit more
than once. (No not by us!)

I'm considering:

Drilling and breaking it up.

Drilling and inserting something I can 'pull' via a jack etc.

Burning (not favoured- it is by a, quiet and private, road but still a
road, and a hedge).


Has anyone any other ideas?

In message , Brian Reay writes


We've got wooden fence post stub which is set in a sizeable concrete
lump. It is broken off 'flush' at the surface- a lorry hit the fence.

I think this question has been covered earlier.

Obviously I could break up the concrete etc but, owing to a hedge, that
isn't a pracical option. Plus the concrete lump is large- I put it in
in about 2001 and I'm sure it is at least 18", even 24" deep- I wanted
the fence to be solid. (Another part stopped a 'run a way' car a few
years ago.)

Even though the post was 'tanalised' and soaked in preservative before
being inserted the stub seems to have deteriorated- how far 'down' I
don't know.

In soil, probably only the 6" above and below the surface

A 'meta post' insert or similar isn't really an option, not man enough,
nor is another hole due to access issues (the hedge).

I'd like to remove the stub and 'slide' a new post into the existing
hole, partly due to access issues and also as the post has been hit
more than once. (No not by us!)

I'm considering:

Drilling and breaking it up.

Tricky if it goes the full 18"

Drilling and inserting something I can 'pull' via a jack etc.

Hmm.. anything threaded is going to expand the stub and grip tighter.

Burning (not favoured- it is by a, quiet and private, road but still a
road, and a hedge).

I have wondered about the oxidisers used for glass fibre resin having
seen what they do to cleaning rags.


Has anyone any other ideas?

Gouge out as much as you can and make sure the replacement is rot
proofed and a sledge hammer fit.


--
Tim Lamb

On 26/02/2018 12:54, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Brian Reay writes


We've got wooden fence post stub which is set in a sizeable concrete
lump. It is broken off 'flush' at the surface- a lorry hit the fence.

I have wondered about the oxidisers used for glass fibre resin having
seen what they do to cleaning rags.

snipped

I wonder if straight hypochlorite bleach or strong hydrogen peroxide
would work? Obviously, holes would help, as would time.

Cheers
--
Clive

Clive Arthur wrote:
On 26/02/2018 12:54, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Brian Reay writes


We've got wooden fence post stub which is set in a sizeable concrete
lump. It is broken off 'flush' at the surface- a lorry hit the fence.

I have wondered about the oxidisers used for glass fibre resin having
seen what they do to cleaning rags.

snipped

I wonder if straight hypochlorite bleach or strong hydrogen peroxide
would work? Obviously, holes would help, as would time.

Thermite? ;-)

Tim


--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 26/02/2018 14:16, Tim+ wrote:
Clive Arthur wrote:
On 26/02/2018 12:54, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Brian Reay writes


We've got wooden fence post stub which is set in a sizeable concrete
lump. It is broken off 'flush' at the surface- a lorry hit the fence.

I have wondered about the oxidisers used for glass fibre resin having
seen what they do to cleaning rags.

snipped

I wonder if straight hypochlorite bleach or strong hydrogen peroxide
would work? Obviously, holes would help, as would time.

Thermite? ;-)

Tim

Or termites.

Cheers
--
Clive

On 26/02/2018 14:21, Clive Arthur wrote:

Thermite? ;-)

Tim

Or termites.

That'd be the southern Irish version to be sure.

Tim+ wrote:
Clive Arthur wrote:
On 26/02/2018 12:54, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Brian Reay writes


We've got wooden fence post stub which is set in a sizeable concrete
lump. It is broken off 'flush' at the surface- a lorry hit the fence.

I have wondered about the oxidisers used for glass fibre resin having
seen what they do to cleaning rags.

snipped

I wonder if straight hypochlorite bleach or strong hydrogen peroxide
would work? Obviously, holes would help, as would time.

Thermite? ;-)

Tim


ANFO

On 26/02/2018 14:16, Tim+ wrote:
Clive Arthur wrote:
On 26/02/2018 12:54, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Brian Reay writes


We've got wooden fence post stub which is set in a sizeable concrete
lump. It is broken off 'flush' at the surface- a lorry hit the fence.

I have wondered about the oxidisers used for glass fibre resin having
seen what they do to cleaning rags.

snipped

I wonder if straight hypochlorite bleach or strong hydrogen peroxide
would work? Obviously, holes would help, as would time.

Thermite? ;-)

Tim


That will take out the concrete too, if you use enough.

On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 12:07:10 +0000, Brian Reay wrote:

We've got wooden fence post stub which is set in a sizeable concrete
lump. It is broken off 'flush' at the surface- a lorry hit the fence.

Obviously I could break up the concrete etc but, owing to a hedge, that
isn't a pracical option. Plus the concrete lump is large- I put it in in
about 2001 and I'm sure it is at least 18", even 24" deep- I wanted the
fence to be solid. (Another part stopped a 'run a way' car a few years
ago.)

Even though the post was 'tanalised' and soaked in preservative before
being inserted the stub seems to have deteriorated- how far 'down' I
don't know.

A 'meta post' insert or similar isn't really an option, not man enough,
nor is another hole due to access issues (the hedge).

I'd like to remove the stub and 'slide' a new post into the existing
hole, partly due to access issues and also as the post has been hit more
than once. (No not by us!)

I'm considering:

Drilling and breaking it up.

Drilling and inserting something I can 'pull' via a jack etc.

Burning (not favoured- it is by a, quiet and private, road but still a
road, and a hedge).


Has anyone any other ideas?

I think you should revisit your "not a practical option".

From bitter past experience I suspect that trying to replace the wooden
post without replacing the concrete is going to be a thankless task.

One of the major benefits of sinking a new post into new concrete is that
the wet concrete bonds to the wood and grips it tight.

Getting new wood in which also has a strong bond is non-trivial and you
would either have to enlarge the hole or use a thinner post to be able to
get something between the new post and old concrete for a firm grip. You
also have the problem of all the bits of half rotten wood which are bonded
to the concrete inside the post hole.

In the past I have dug down one side of the concrete lump then levered it
into the hole. It is then relatively (!) straightforward to break it up
into pieces small enough to move.

Consider trimming/pruning the hedge to make access easier. It will look
ugly for a while but hedges usually grow back.

Cheers


Dave R




--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Some form of acid?
Then bring out the gunk into some safe receptical. Its probably illegal now
though.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Brian Reay" wrote in message
news


We've got wooden fence post stub which is set in a sizeable concrete lump.
It is broken off 'flush' at the surface- a lorry hit the fence.

Obviously I could break up the concrete etc but, owing to a hedge, that
isn't a pracical option. Plus the concrete lump is large- I put it in in
about 2001 and I'm sure it is at least 18", even 24" deep- I wanted the
fence to be solid. (Another part stopped a 'run a way' car a few years
ago.)

Even though the post was 'tanalised' and soaked in preservative before
being inserted the stub seems to have deteriorated- how far 'down' I don't
know.

A 'meta post' insert or similar isn't really an option, not man enough,
nor is another hole due to access issues (the hedge).

I'd like to remove the stub and 'slide' a new post into the existing hole,
partly due to access issues and also as the post has been hit more than
once. (No not by us!)

I'm considering:

Drilling and breaking it up.

Drilling and inserting something I can 'pull' via a jack etc.

Burning (not favoured- it is by a, quiet and private, road but still a
road, and a hedge).


Has anyone any other ideas?

On 26/02/2018 12:07, Brian Reay wrote:


We've got wooden fence post stub which is set in a sizeable concrete
lump. It is broken off 'flush' at the surface- a lorry hit the fence.

Obviously I could break up the concrete etc but, owing to a hedge, that
isn't a pracical option. Plus the concrete lump is large- I put it in in
about 2001 and I'm sure it is at least 18", even 24" deep- I wanted the
fence to be solid. (Another part stopped a 'run a way' car a few years
ago.)

Even though the post was 'tanalised' and soaked in preservative before
being inserted the stub seems to have deteriorated- how far 'down' I
don't know.

A 'meta post' insert or similar isn't really an option, not man enough,
nor is another hole due to access issues (the hedge).

I'd like to remove the stub and 'slide' a new post into the existing
hole, partly due to access issues and also as the post has been hit more
than once. (No not by us!)

I'm considering:

Drilling and breaking it up.

Drilling it with the largest long drill bit you can find and loading the
holes with dry potassium nitrate and then keeping the rain off for a
while. Wait until the driest day in mid summer and set well alight. With
a bit of luck it will smoulder away slowly into the ground.

I have taken out big tree roots this way. Although chicken of the woods
fungus also helped with that too. Seemed to like high nitrate wood.

Drilling and inserting something I can 'pull' via a jack etc.

It will expand the wood an bind it tighter.

Burning (not favoured- it is by a, quiet and private, road but still a
road, and a hedge).

It will be too damp to burn out but you might get it to smoulder.
You may well have to smash the concrete to get it out.

Has anyone any other ideas?

Wait a very long time and it will eventually rot away.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 26/02/2018 17:07, Huge wrote:
On 2018-02-26, Martin Brown wrote:

[26 lines snipped]

Drilling it with the largest long drill bit you can find and loading the
holes with dry potassium nitrate

Good luck buying that these days.

It should be in most garden centres as fertiliser. Or Amazon:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Potassium-n.../dp/B0166MYGGE

eBay might well be cheaper. Sodium Chlorate is much harder to obtain.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Monday, February 26, 2018 at 7:09:26 PM UTC, Martin Brown wrote:
On 26/02/2018 17:07, Huge wrote:
On 2018-02-26, Martin Brown wrote:

[26 lines snipped]

Drilling it with the largest long drill bit you can find and loading the
holes with dry potassium nitrate

Good luck buying that these days.

It should be in most garden centres as fertiliser. Or Amazon:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Potassium-n.../dp/B0166MYGGE

eBay might well be cheaper. Sodium Chlorate is much harder to obtain.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

A post shoe and rawlbolts for me
https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p58942

On 26/02/2018 19:18, stuart noble wrote:
On Monday, February 26, 2018 at 7:09:26 PM UTC, Martin Brown wrote:
On 26/02/2018 17:07, Huge wrote:
On 2018-02-26, Martin Brown wrote:

[26 lines snipped]

Drilling it with the largest long drill bit you can find and loading the
holes with dry potassium nitrate

Good luck buying that these days.

It should be in most garden centres as fertiliser. Or Amazon:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Potassium-n.../dp/B0166MYGGE

eBay might well be cheaper. Sodium Chlorate is much harder to obtain.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

A post shoe and rawlbolts for me
https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p58942


I was going to suggest bashing a Metpost spike into the remains of the
wood. Post shoe is probably a better idea. But, I wouldn't do rawlbolts
(the concrete block probably doesn't have a nice flat square top). I'd
drill four holes as deep as possible, 12 or 15 mm diameter with pitch to
suit the shoe, then inject polyester resin and set lengths of 10 or 12
mm zinc plated studding into them, ensuring that they are all more or
less vertical and that the post shoe still fits over them. Or stainless,
if you want to be posh. When it has all set, you can make a level
"platform" for the bottom of the post shoe with four nuts and large
washers, add a bit more concrete up to the platform level and, while it
is still wet, bolt the post shoe down into place.

On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 11:18:24 -0800 (PST), stuart noble
wrote:

A post shoe and rawlbolts for me
https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p58942

My thoughts too but wonder if the concrete would stand the rawlbolt
compared with a resin fixing.

I didn't know they were called shoes

AJH

On 26/02/2018 20:12, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 19:09:21 +0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 26/02/2018 17:07, Huge wrote:
On 2018-02-26, Martin Brown wrote:

[26 lines snipped]

Drilling it with the largest long drill bit you can find and loading the
holes with dry potassium nitrate

Good luck buying that these days.

It should be in most garden centres as fertiliser.

Hmm... I don't recall ever seeing it pure, certainly not recently,

I haven't looked all that recently but it is usually next to ammonium,
ferrous and magnesium sulphate. Along with other specialist feeds.

mostly it's compounded with other NPK elements into a general
fertiliser.

Or Amazon:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Potassium-n.../dp/B0166MYGGE

You have to grind it (and all the other components) very fine to make
gunpowder. By comparison sodium chlorate was trivial to make a bang.

Pyrotechnics are very unforgiving - as one expert once told me "all the
best fireworks makers in the world are missing precisely one finger".

That does surprise me, bearing in mind it's a major ingredient in an
easily-made explosive often used in quarry blasting.

I think you are thinking of ammonium nitrate. That is a bit harder to
get for home users but there are big sacks of it sat around on farms.
One of the big brands is my name backwards Nitram.

https://www.cffertilisers.co.uk/fert...trogen/nitram/

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Brian Reay wrote:


We've got wooden fence post stub which is set in a sizeable concrete
lump. It is broken off 'flush' at the surface- a lorry hit the fence.

Obviously I could break up the concrete etc but, owing to a hedge, that
isn't a pracical option. Plus the concrete lump is large- I put it in in
about 2001 and I'm sure it is at least 18", even 24" deep- I wanted the
fence to be solid. (Another part stopped a 'run a way' car a few years
ago.)

Even though the post was 'tanalised' and soaked in preservative before
being inserted the stub seems to have deteriorated- how far 'down' I
don't know.

A 'meta post' insert or similar isn't really an option, not man enough,
nor is another hole due to access issues (the hedge).

I'd like to remove the stub and 'slide' a new post into the existing
hole, partly due to access issues and also as the post has been hit more
than once. (No not by us!)

I'm considering:

Drilling and breaking it up.

Drilling and inserting something I can 'pull' via a jack etc.

Burning (not favoured- it is by a, quiet and private, road but still a
road, and a hedge).


Has anyone any other ideas?


Thermite mixture? :-)

Brian Reay wrote:


We've got wooden fence post stub which is set in a sizeable concrete
lump. It is broken off 'flush' at the surface- a lorry hit the fence.

Obviously I could break up the concrete etc but, owing to a hedge, that
isn't a pracical option. Plus the concrete lump is large- I put it in in
about 2001 and I'm sure it is at least 18", even 24" deep- I wanted the
fence to be solid. (Another part stopped a 'run a way' car a few years
ago.)

Even though the post was 'tanalised' and soaked in preservative before
being inserted the stub seems to have deteriorated- how far 'down' I
don't know.

A 'meta post' insert or similar isn't really an option, not man enough,
nor is another hole due to access issues (the hedge).

I'd like to remove the stub and 'slide' a new post into the existing
hole, partly due to access issues and also as the post has been hit more
than once. (No not by us!)

I'm considering:

Drilling and breaking it up.

Drilling and inserting something I can 'pull' via a jack etc.

Burning (not favoured- it is by a, quiet and private, road but still a
road, and a hedge).


Has anyone any other ideas?


I don't know if you want to get the lump out of the ground, but I got
one out by rolling it around (I was able to stick a scaffold pole I'd
found buried in the garden into the hole), and pushing soil underneath
it as it was moving about. Didn't take very long.

On 26/02/2018 12:07, Brian Reay wrote:


We've got wooden fence post stub which is set in a sizeable concrete
lump. It is broken off 'flush' at the surface- a lorry hit the fence.

Obviously I could break up the concrete etc but, owing to a hedge, that
isn't a pracical option. Plus the concrete lump is large- I put it in in
about 2001 and I'm sure it is at least 18", even 24" deep- I wanted the
fence to be solid. (Another part stopped a 'run a way' car a few years
ago.)

Even though the post was 'tanalised' and soaked in preservative before
being inserted the stub seems to have deteriorated- how far 'down' I
don't know.

A 'meta post' insert or similar isn't really an option, not man enough,
nor is another hole due to access issues (the hedge).

I'd like to remove the stub and 'slide' a new post into the existing
hole, partly due to access issues and also as the post has been hit more
than once. (No not by us!)

I'm considering:

Drilling and breaking it up.

Drilling and inserting something I can 'pull' via a jack etc.

Burning (not favoured- it is by a, quiet and private, road but still a
road, and a hedge).


Has anyone any other ideas?


Let the lorry diver fix it.

--
Adam

On 26/02/18 12:07, Brian Reay wrote:

I'm considering:

Drilling and breaking it up.

Drilling and inserting something I can 'pull' via a jack etc.

Burning (not favoured- it is by a, quiet and private, road but still a
road, and a hedge).


Has anyone any other ideas?


If you can drill a 50mm hole (long Auger?) then a short length of
scaffold pole could sit in it, and then you'd hollow out the new post to
conceal that.

Alternatively, one of these might get the wood out, after mushing with
various chemicals.

https://www.manomano.co.uk/auger-1747?model_id=1198729


--
Adrian C

On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 12:07:10 +0000, Brian Reay wrote:

snip

Drilling and breaking it up.

snip

That's what I did (and have another to do).

I fitted a 20mm Forstner bit to a long extension (or two) and then
chain drilled a row of holes across the middle of the stub.

Then I did the same across the stub to form a cross.

Then I drilled diagonally though each hole to break each hole into the
next (the Forstner bit seemed less keen to bind than most and could be
'steered' easier, even when fairly deep in a hole and were quite
strong in general), and the Henry used to keep the wood chips out so
you could see what you were doing.

I think I finished the breaking though off with a long Saber then
panel saw and was then was able to compress the sides in and pull the
stub out (a screw eye, rope and a long lever over the old post top
laid over the hole).

That's probably how I'm going to do the remaining one (to be replaced
by steel posts in the same holes).

Cheers, T i m

On Monday, 26 February 2018 12:07:12 UTC, Brian Reay wrote:
We've got wooden fence post stub which is set in a sizeable concrete
lump. It is broken off 'flush' at the surface- a lorry hit the fence.

Obviously I could break up the concrete etc but, owing to a hedge, that
isn't a pracical option. Plus the concrete lump is large- I put it in in
about 2001 and I'm sure it is at least 18", even 24" deep- I wanted the
fence to be solid. (Another part stopped a 'run a way' car a few years
ago.)

Even though the post was 'tanalised' and soaked in preservative before
being inserted the stub seems to have deteriorated- how far 'down' I
don't know.

A 'meta post' insert or similar isn't really an option, not man enough,
nor is another hole due to access issues (the hedge).

I'd like to remove the stub and 'slide' a new post into the existing
hole, partly due to access issues and also as the post has been hit more
than once. (No not by us!)

I'm considering:

Drilling and breaking it up.

Drilling and inserting something I can 'pull' via a jack etc.

Burning (not favoured- it is by a, quiet and private, road but still a
road, and a hedge).


Has anyone any other ideas?

You can buy a short "repair" spike for this very purpose intended to be hammered into the wooden remanants.
https://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/...gclsrc=aw.d s

Has anyone any other ideas?

My 2p's worth of advice would be to drill into the wooden stub and screw in the largest eye bolt you can find (something like a shield anchor perhaps which will expand). Then after loosening the soil around the concrete as best you can use the broken post with a hole at one end with a rope through the hole/eye bolt to act as a lever to pull out the concrete stub. Might need some jigging but this worked for me (I did have a few inches of broken post above the concrete so I was able to drill a hole to thread the rope). Other advantage is that your hole isn't much bigger than the original as you've not had to dig out the concrete.

On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 12:07:10 +0000, Brian Reay wrote:

A 'meta post' insert or similar isn't really an option, not man enough,
nor is another hole due to access issues (the hedge).


Why not I have always found them to be stronger than the wooden post.

I have often broken the concrete with an sds and then levered it out
but if the concrete is as good as you say why not use the metpost with
a square base and resin bond the fixings to the existing concrete.

I have also removed the wood and hammered a modified met post into the
socket. I have not been successful burning the wood out but it may be
possible with a cheap hot air gun like the Einhell I light my fire
with.

Personally I would never concrete or postfix a wooden post in, they
seem to rot faster.

AJH

On Monday, February 26, 2018 at 12:07:12 PM UTC, Brian Reay wrote:
We've got wooden fence post stub which is set in a sizeable concrete
lump. It is broken off 'flush' at the surface- a lorry hit the fence.

Obviously I could break up the concrete etc but, owing to a hedge, that
isn't a pracical option. Plus the concrete lump is large- I put it in in
about 2001 and I'm sure it is at least 18", even 24" deep- I wanted the
fence to be solid. (Another part stopped a 'run a way' car a few years
ago.)

Even though the post was 'tanalised' and soaked in preservative before
being inserted the stub seems to have deteriorated- how far 'down' I
don't know.

A 'meta post' insert or similar isn't really an option, not man enough,
nor is another hole due to access issues (the hedge).

I'd like to remove the stub and 'slide' a new post into the existing
hole, partly due to access issues and also as the post has been hit more
than once. (No not by us!)

I'm considering:

Drilling and breaking it up.

Drilling and inserting something I can 'pull' via a jack etc.

Burning (not favoured- it is by a, quiet and private, road but still a
road, and a hedge).


Has anyone any other ideas?

FWIIW my idea would be to drill a large diameter hole in the centre of the post say a 1" auger or the like and use a coarse threaded rod which cuts only into the sides of the timber because the shaft of the threaded rod is loose within the hole. Put a couple of nuts on the rod for grip and pull it out with a jack or the like. Wait till a dry day and put in a hair drier for a few hours first to get the MC down as much as possible .
Alternatively, if time is not of essence, drill lots of holes and introduce a bit of dry or wet rot on a bed of malt agar. It will only take a year or so!
If time is of essence the idea of burning out with an oxidising agent is perfect.
When putting back the timber replacement soak the pointed end grain to go in the hole in an organic solvent borne fungicide for a day two, let it dry, sleeve it with plastic and then drypack with 1:1 fine sharp sand and cement around the perimeter of the new wood which should be slightly smaller in diameter to allow for this. Alternatively, use the same size, coat it in an epoxy resin and ram it home !

Bite the bullet, dig it out from one side and break it up. When you replace it use heavy gauge steel box section with a rain cap.
If that gets damaged it can be straightened/repaired or cut off and a new piece welded on.

Chris Hogg Wrote in message:
On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 12:07:10 +0000, Brian Reay wrote:




Has anyone any other ideas?

Break up the concrete using the expansion characteristics of
quicklime?

I've never done it, but AIUI you drill some decent sized holes* down
into the concrete, fill them with quicklime and tamp it down a bit,
pour in some water, plug the hole with a bit of broom handle or
whatever, and leave it to do its thing. Or just plug the hole without
adding the water and let the quicklime hydrate from the ambient
moisture. As the quicklime hydrates it expands, relentlessly, and
eventually splits the concrete or rock it's in.

Google throws up several links to commercial expansive mortars and
patents, the latter seem to be based on quicklime with other
additives, e.g. http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4565579.html.

But quicklime is nasty stuff. You need to take care when handling it
not to get it on your skin and definitely not in your eyes as it's
potentially very caustic. It also gets hot and may boil in the hole,
so take care to avoid it splashing and spitting out onto you.

*what's a decent size? Don't know, but getting on for a couple of cm
diameter I guess. SDS drill? Mind you, if you've done that, the
concrete might be easy enough to break up by hand.


Or with the sds with a chisel in it. ;-)

Interesting idea though. Where do you get the quicklime?
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 26/02/2018 18:33, jim wrote:
Or with the sds with a chisel in it.;-)

Interesting idea though. Where do you get the quicklime?

Put some chalk or limestone on the barbecue. And beware, it emits carbon
monoxide.

Andy

On 26/02/2018 20:52, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 26/02/2018 18:33, jim wrote:
Or with the sds with a chisel in it.;-)
Interesting idea though. Where do you get the quicklime?

Put some chalk or limestone on the barbecue. And beware, it emits carbon
monoxide.
I think you would need forced ventilation as well to get anything like
decent conversion. Quicklime is not to be messed around with. It is
extremely unforgiving if mishandled. Very few places sell it these days.

Lime putty is much easier to work with (but not for this job).

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 27/02/2018 15:27, Martin Brown wrote:
On 26/02/2018 20:52, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 26/02/2018 18:33, jim wrote:
Or with the sds with a chisel in it.;-)
Interesting idea though. Where do you get the quicklime?

Put some chalk or limestone on the barbecue. And beware, it emits
carbon monoxide.
I think you would need forced ventilation as well to get anything like
decent conversion. Quicklime is not to be messed around with. It is
extremely unforgiving if mishandled. Very few places sell it these days.

Out of curiosity, I found it still seems to be available in bulk

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Buxton-Li...AOSw43hZ5ct i

(also around £10 for a kilo, but you would need the big bags to get rid
of a body).

On 28/02/2018 22:32, newshound wrote:
On 27/02/2018 15:27, Martin Brown wrote:
On 26/02/2018 20:52, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 26/02/2018 18:33, jim wrote:
Or with the sds with a chisel in it.;-) Interesting idea
though. Where do you get the quicklime?

Put some chalk or limestone on the barbecue. And beware, it emits
carbon monoxide.
I think you would need forced ventilation as well to get anything
like decent conversion. Quicklime is not to be messed around with.
It is extremely unforgiving if mishandled. Very few places sell it
these days.

Out of curiosity, I found it still seems to be available in bulk

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Buxton-Li...AOSw43hZ5ct i

(also around £10 for a kilo, but you would need the big bags to get
rid of a body).

I'd be surprised if they would sell it to you. It doesn't get rid of the
body though it sterilises which was why they threw contagious plague and
anthrax victims and the like into a big pit with plenty of quicklime.

Foot and mouth they used fire the same sort of way on dead cattle taking
us back to a medieval approach to contagions.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 26/02/2018 21:02, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 20:52:05 +0000, Vir Campestris
wrote:

On 26/02/2018 18:33, jim wrote:
Or with the sds with a chisel in it.;-)

Interesting idea though. Where do you get the quicklime?

Put some chalk or limestone on the barbecue. And beware, it emits carbon
monoxide.

Er...no, much worse, carbon dioxide!



Depends what you mean by worse.

CO is dangerous- it combines with haemoglobin and that can kill you.

CO2 isn't, in itself, dangerous- it can lead to O2 deprivation but that
is a secondary effect.

That is why we have CO detectors, if you get incomplete combustion you
get CO. If you have complete combustion (enough oxygen) you get CO2.




--

Suspect someone is claiming a benefit under false pretences? Incapacity
Benefit or Personal Independence Payment when they don't need it? They
are depriving those in real need!

https://www.gov.uk/report-benefit-fraud

On 27/02/18 08:07, Brian Reay wrote:
On 26/02/2018 21:02, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 20:52:05 +0000, Vir Campestris
wrote:

On 26/02/2018 18:33, jim wrote:
Or with the sds with a chisel in it.;-)

Interesting idea though. Where do you get the quicklime?

Put some chalk or limestone on the barbecue. And beware, it emits carbon
monoxide.

Er...no, much worse, carbon dioxide!



Depends what you mean by worse.

I thought it referred to Chris's "global warming" sarcasm!

--

Jeff

On 26/02/2018 21:02, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 20:52:05 +0000, Vir Campestris
wrote:

On 26/02/2018 18:33, jim wrote:
Or with the sds with a chisel in it.;-)

Interesting idea though. Where do you get the quicklime?

Put some chalk or limestone on the barbecue. And beware, it emits carbon
monoxide.

Er...no, much worse, carbon dioxide!

"Lime burning and use are dangerous processes: kilns also
produce carbon monoxide which can result in asphyxiation"

http://www.lymeregismuseum.co.uk/lrm/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/4_lime_burning_in_lim_valley_and_lyme.pdf

Now I think about it I'm not sure I understand the chemistry either.
CaCO3 should give CaO + CO2.

Andy

On 27/02/18 21:32, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 26/02/2018 21:02, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 20:52:05 +0000, Vir Campestris
wrote:

On 26/02/2018 18:33, jim wrote:
Or with the sds with a chisel in it.;-)

Interesting idea though. Where do you get the quicklime?

Put some chalk or limestone on the barbecue. And beware, it emits carbon
monoxide.

Er...no, much worse, carbon dioxide!

"Lime burning and use are dangerous processes: kilns also
produce carbon monoxide which can result in asphyxiation"

http://www.lymeregismuseum.co.uk/lrm/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/4_lime_burning_in_lim_valley_and_lyme.pdf

Now I think about it I'm not sure I understand the chemistry either.
CaCO3 should give CaO + CO2.

To burn the lime the kiln must be heated to a high temperature. That is
done with coal or charcoal. They are the source of CO when oxygen is
restricted, not the decomposition of the calcium carbonate.

--

Jeff

On 27/02/18 22:43, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 27/02/18 21:32, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 26/02/2018 21:02, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 20:52:05 +0000, Vir Campestris
wrote:

On 26/02/2018 18:33, jim wrote:
Or with the sds with a chisel in it.;-)

Interesting idea though. Where do you get the quicklime?

Put some chalk or limestone on the barbecue. And beware, it emits
carbon
monoxide.

Er...no, much worse, carbon dioxide!

"LimeÂ* burningÂ* andÂ* useÂ* areÂ* dangerousÂ* processes:Â* kilns also
produceÂ* carbon monoxide which can result in asphyxiation"

http://www.lymeregismuseum.co.uk/lrm/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/4_lime_burning_in_lim_valley_and_lyme.pdf


Now I think about it I'm not sure I understand the chemistry either.
CaCO3 should give CaO + CO2.

To burn the lime the kiln must be heated to a high temperature. That is
done with coal or charcoal. They are the source of CO when oxygen is
restricted, not the decomposition of the calcium carbonate.

And the pdf referred to is NOT written by an indistrial chemist, but by
a historian, who doesnt really understand the chemistry...


--
"I guess a rattlesnake ain't risponsible fer bein' a rattlesnake, but ah
puts mah heel on um jess the same if'n I catches him around mah chillun".

On 27/02/2018 21:32, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 26/02/2018 21:02, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 20:52:05 +0000, Vir Campestris
wrote:

On 26/02/2018 18:33, jim wrote:
Or with the sds with a chisel in it.;-)

Interesting idea though. Where do you get the quicklime?

Put some chalk or limestone on the barbecue. And beware, it emits carbon
monoxide.

Er...no, much worse, carbon dioxide!

"LimeÂ* burningÂ* andÂ* useÂ* areÂ* dangerousÂ* processes:Â* kilns also
produceÂ* carbon monoxide which can result in asphyxiation"

http://www.lymeregismuseum.co.uk/lrm/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/4_lime_burning_in_lim_valley_and_lyme.pdf

Now I think about it I'm not sure I understand the chemistry either.
CaCO3 should give CaO + CO2.

It is incomplete burning of the charcoal due to insufficient oxygen.
The CO should be a trace byproduct in the flue gasses but since it binds
to haemoglobin permanently it is a real threat to the kiln operators.

Ideally a lime kiln will use forced ventilation or cunning chimney
design to pull plenty of air through the burning mix to optimise the
chemistry - you want it as hot as possible with a decent flow of air
through to move the CO2 away from the quicklime as it forms.

It is pretty difficult to make decent quicklime in the embers of a
domestic fire. I know - I tried it as a teenager. Surface conversion is
just about possible but you need it really hot to make the stuff.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown