I do look at the site from time to time and from previous chats I expect
nuclear to be going hell for leather, wind and solar to be doing what the
weather dictates, and CCGT filling in the gaps, with coal kicking in when
the warm brown stuff hits the rotating object. OCGT when all else fails.

Tonight coal is almost up against the stops and CCGT is just strolling
along at about 11 GW with plenty to spare.

Is there some kind of special offer on coal power at the moment?

Cheers



Dave R

--
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On 24/02/18 19:09, David wrote:
I do look at the site from time to time and from previous chats I expect
nuclear to be going hell for leather, wind and solar to be doing what the
weather dictates, and CCGT filling in the gaps, with coal kicking in when
the warm brown stuff hits the rotating object. OCGT when all else fails.

Tonight coal is almost up against the stops and CCGT is just strolling
along at about 11 GW with plenty to spare.

Is there some kind of special offer on coal power at the moment?

I have never seen that before.

Perhaps there has been an unexpected demand and the coal stations were
already hot to trot.

-


Cheers



Dave R



--
"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
let them."

The Natural Philosopher expressed precisely :
I have never seen that before.

Perhaps there has been an unexpected demand and the coal stations were
already hot to trot.

Or perhaps they were deliberately 'hot to trot', in anticipation of the
coming freeze beginning tomorrow?

On 24/02/18 20:49, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
The Natural Philosopher expressed precisely :
I have never seen that before.

Perhaps there has been an unexpected demand and the coal stations were
already hot to trot.

Or perhaps they were deliberately 'hot to trot', in anticipation of the
coming freeze beginning tomorrow?


that is not an alternbative to what I said.



--
In todays liberal progressive conflict-free education system, everyone
gets full Marx.

On 24 Feb 2018 19:09:26 GMT, David wrote:

I do look at the site from time to time and from previous chats I expect
nuclear to be going hell for leather, wind and solar to be doing what the
weather dictates, and CCGT filling in the gaps, with coal kicking in when
the warm brown stuff hits the rotating object. OCGT when all else fails.

Tonight coal is almost up against the stops and CCGT is just strolling
along at about 11 GW with plenty to spare.

Is there some kind of special offer on coal power at the moment?

Nothing other then using allocated hours under the Industrial
Emissions Directive, gas supplies in Europe being limited, selling
into the market gas bought on forward contracts and storage being
topped up.

https://www.reuters.com/article/euro...-idUSL8N1QD50V

http://mip-prod-web.azurewebsites.ne...lingView/Index

Coal today and for the past 24 hours at 6.5 - 7GW is nowhere 'near
the stops'

There is currently 12781 MW of coal capacity 2-14 days ahead (same as
for today but that was declared Thursday)

Minimum margin for today was 14279MW at around 7pm

https://www.bmreports.com/bmrs/?q=ge...putusable-2-14

On 24/02/18 21:07, The Other Mike wrote:
On 24 Feb 2018 19:09:26 GMT, David wrote:

I do look at the site from time to time and from previous chats I expect
nuclear to be going hell for leather, wind and solar to be doing what the
weather dictates, and CCGT filling in the gaps, with coal kicking in when
the warm brown stuff hits the rotating object. OCGT when all else fails.

Tonight coal is almost up against the stops and CCGT is just strolling
along at about 11 GW with plenty to spare.

Is there some kind of special offer on coal power at the moment?

Nothing other then using allocated hours under the Industrial
Emissions Directive, gas supplies in Europe being limited, selling
into the market gas bought on forward contracts and storage being
topped up.

Ah yes. Gas has gone expoensive hasn't it? I spotted that but didnt
connect the two...

https://www.reuters.com/article/euro...-idUSL8N1QD50V

http://mip-prod-web.azurewebsites.ne...lingView/Index

Coal today and for the past 24 hours at 6.5 - 7GW is nowhere 'near
the stops'

There is currently 12781 MW of coal capacity 2-14 days ahead (same as
for today but that was declared Thursday)

Minimum margin for today was 14279MW at around 7pm

https://www.bmreports.com/bmrs/?q=ge...putusable-2-14

I am not sure how real that capacity reaslly is. When I have tried to
tot up power stations I cant get much over 8...


--
If I had all the money I've spent on drink...
...I'd spend it on drink.

Sir Henry (at Rawlinson's End)

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 08:18:53 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 24/02/18 21:07, The Other Mike wrote:
On 24 Feb 2018 19:09:26 GMT, David wrote:

I do look at the site from time to time and from previous chats I
expect nuclear to be going hell for leather, wind and solar to be
doing what the weather dictates, and CCGT filling in the gaps, with
coal kicking in when the warm brown stuff hits the rotating object.
OCGT when all else fails.

Tonight coal is almost up against the stops and CCGT is just strolling
along at about 11 GW with plenty to spare.

Is there some kind of special offer on coal power at the moment?

Nothing other then using allocated hours under the Industrial Emissions
Directive, gas supplies in Europe being limited, selling into the
market gas bought on forward contracts and storage being topped up.

Ah yes. Gas has gone expoensive hasn't it? I spotted that but didnt
connect the two...

https://www.reuters.com/article/euro...old-snap-sees-
european-gas-prices-soar-as-supply-options-dwindle-idUSL8N1QD50V

http://mip-prod-web.azurewebsites.ne...lingView/Index

Coal today and for the past 24 hours at 6.5 - 7GW is nowhere 'near the
stops'

There is currently 12781 MW of coal capacity 2-14 days ahead (same as
for today but that was declared Thursday)

Minimum margin for today was 14279MW at around 7pm

https://www.bmreports.com/bmrs/?q=ge...putusable-2-14

I am not sure how real that capacity reaslly is. When I have tried to
tot up power stations I cant get much over 8...

Gridwatch seems to have 10 GW as "against the stops" and into the amber at
around 8GW. Which was more or less where it was (didn't note the actual
number) at the time. I tend to view "into the amber" as "almost against
the stops".

Certainly far more coal than we usually see, especially as gas is usually
a lot cheaper and quicker to wind up.

I think the note about the spike in gas prices because of the coming cold
snap may explain why it is suddenly economic to burn coal instead of gas.

Perhaps also to get the less used plant up to speed so there are no nasty
surprises if they are called on to deliver at full output.

Next couple of weeks are looking pretty icy. Wonder how good solar panels
are at shedding snow?


Cheers


Dave R



--
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On 25/02/18 12:45, David wrote:
On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 08:18:53 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 24/02/18 21:07, The Other Mike wrote:
On 24 Feb 2018 19:09:26 GMT, David wrote:

I do look at the site from time to time and from previous chats I
expect nuclear to be going hell for leather, wind and solar to be
doing what the weather dictates, and CCGT filling in the gaps, with
coal kicking in when the warm brown stuff hits the rotating object.
OCGT when all else fails.

Tonight coal is almost up against the stops and CCGT is just strolling
along at about 11 GW with plenty to spare.

Is there some kind of special offer on coal power at the moment?

Nothing other then using allocated hours under the Industrial Emissions
Directive, gas supplies in Europe being limited, selling into the
market gas bought on forward contracts and storage being topped up.

Ah yes. Gas has gone expoensive hasn't it? I spotted that but didnt
connect the two...

https://www.reuters.com/article/euro...old-snap-sees-
european-gas-prices-soar-as-supply-options-dwindle-idUSL8N1QD50V

http://mip-prod-web.azurewebsites.ne...lingView/Index

Coal today and for the past 24 hours at 6.5 - 7GW is nowhere 'near the
stops'

There is currently 12781 MW of coal capacity 2-14 days ahead (same as
for today but that was declared Thursday)

Minimum margin for today was 14279MW at around 7pm

https://www.bmreports.com/bmrs/?q=ge...putusable-2-14

I am not sure how real that capacity reaslly is. When I have tried to
tot up power stations I cant get much over 8...

Gridwatch seems to have 10 GW as "against the stops" and into the amber at
around 8GW. Which was more or less where it was (didn't note the actual
number) at the time. I tend to view "into the amber" as "almost against
the stops".

Those stops are - as 'The other Mike' points out - somewhat arbitrary
and represent 'the most coal power ever seen on BM reports'

I've seen 25GW back in 2011, but the most last year was 11.4GW and we
lost another 2GW last year I think.

We are not yet in blackout territory, but a cold sunless period with one
or more power staions out of action aross Europe could make things marginal.



Certainly far more coal than we usually see, especially as gas is usually
a lot cheaper and quicker to wind up.

Except right now it isnt that cheap for some reason.

I think the note about the spike in gas prices because of the coming cold
snap may explain why it is suddenly economic to burn coal instead of gas.


The coal power stations have a certain amount of running hours left. If
the spot price is high enough they will be put online.

I havent checked BM reports for that. I should.

Perhaps also to get the less used plant up to speed so there are no nasty
surprises if they are called on to deliver at full output.

Next couple of weeks are looking pretty icy. Wonder how good solar panels
are at shedding snow?

:-)



Cheers


Dave R





--
Those who want slavery should have the grace to name it by its proper
name. They must face the full meaning of that which they are advocating
or condoning; the full, exact, specific meaning of collectivism, of its
logical implications, of the principles upon which it is based, and of
the ultimate consequences to which these principles will lead. They must
face it, then decide whether this is what they want or not.

Ayn Rand.

David wrote:

Gridwatch seems to have 10 GW as "against the stops" and into the amber at
around 8GW.

I think we've got about 14.5GW of coal plant that isn't mothballed.

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 12:45:38 +0000, David wrote:

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 08:18:53 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 24/02/18 21:07, The Other Mike wrote:
On 24 Feb 2018 19:09:26 GMT, David wrote:

I do look at the site from time to time and from previous chats I
expect nuclear to be going hell for leather, wind and solar to be
doing what the weather dictates, and CCGT filling in the gaps, with
coal kicking in when the warm brown stuff hits the rotating object.
OCGT when all else fails.

Tonight coal is almost up against the stops and CCGT is just
strolling along at about 11 GW with plenty to spare.

Is there some kind of special offer on coal power at the moment?

Nothing other then using allocated hours under the Industrial
Emissions Directive, gas supplies in Europe being limited, selling
into the market gas bought on forward contracts and storage being
topped up.

Ah yes. Gas has gone expoensive hasn't it? I spotted that but didnt
connect the two...

https://www.reuters.com/article/euro...old-snap-sees-
european-gas-prices-soar-as-supply-options-dwindle-idUSL8N1QD50V

http://mip-prod-web.azurewebsites.ne...lingView/Index

Coal today and for the past 24 hours at 6.5 - 7GW is nowhere 'near
the stops'

There is currently 12781 MW of coal capacity 2-14 days ahead (same as
for today but that was declared Thursday)

Minimum margin for today was 14279MW at around 7pm

https://www.bmreports.com/bmrs/?q=ge...putusable-2-14

I am not sure how real that capacity reaslly is. When I have tried to
tot up power stations I cant get much over 8...

Gridwatch seems to have 10 GW as "against the stops" and into the amber
at around 8GW. Which was more or less where it was (didn't note the
actual number) at the time. I tend to view "into the amber" as "almost
against the stops".

Certainly far more coal than we usually see, especially as gas is
usually a lot cheaper and quicker to wind up.

I think the note about the spike in gas prices because of the coming
cold snap may explain why it is suddenly economic to burn coal instead
of gas.

Perhaps also to get the less used plant up to speed so there are no
nasty surprises if they are called on to deliver at full output.

Next couple of weeks are looking pretty icy. Wonder how good solar
panels are at shedding snow?

9.48 GW at the moment.

Well into the red.

Just sayin :-)




--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

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On 25/02/18 18:48, David wrote:
On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 12:45:38 +0000, David wrote:

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 08:18:53 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 24/02/18 21:07, The Other Mike wrote:
On 24 Feb 2018 19:09:26 GMT, David wrote:

I do look at the site from time to time and from previous chats I
expect nuclear to be going hell for leather, wind and solar to be
doing what the weather dictates, and CCGT filling in the gaps, with
coal kicking in when the warm brown stuff hits the rotating object.
OCGT when all else fails.

Tonight coal is almost up against the stops and CCGT is just
strolling along at about 11 GW with plenty to spare.

Is there some kind of special offer on coal power at the moment?

Nothing other then using allocated hours under the Industrial
Emissions Directive, gas supplies in Europe being limited, selling
into the market gas bought on forward contracts and storage being
topped up.

Ah yes. Gas has gone expoensive hasn't it? I spotted that but didnt
connect the two...

https://www.reuters.com/article/euro...old-snap-sees-
european-gas-prices-soar-as-supply-options-dwindle-idUSL8N1QD50V

http://mip-prod-web.azurewebsites.ne...lingView/Index

Coal today and for the past 24 hours at 6.5 - 7GW is nowhere 'near
the stops'

There is currently 12781 MW of coal capacity 2-14 days ahead (same as
for today but that was declared Thursday)

Minimum margin for today was 14279MW at around 7pm

https://www.bmreports.com/bmrs/?q=ge...putusable-2-14

I am not sure how real that capacity reaslly is. When I have tried to
tot up power stations I cant get much over 8...

Gridwatch seems to have 10 GW as "against the stops" and into the amber
at around 8GW. Which was more or less where it was (didn't note the
actual number) at the time. I tend to view "into the amber" as "almost
against the stops".

Certainly far more coal than we usually see, especially as gas is
usually a lot cheaper and quicker to wind up.

I think the note about the spike in gas prices because of the coming
cold snap may explain why it is suddenly economic to burn coal instead
of gas.

Perhaps also to get the less used plant up to speed so there are no
nasty surprises if they are called on to deliver at full output.

Next couple of weeks are looking pretty icy. Wonder how good solar
panels are at shedding snow?

9.48 GW at the moment.

Well into the red.

Just sayin :-)


yes but the red is somewhat arbitrary...

On 25/02/18 19:09, Chris Hogg wrote:
On 25 Feb 2018 18:48:09 GMT, David wrote:


9.48 GW at the moment.

Well into the red.

Just sayin :-)

TNP will correct me if I'm wrong (he created Gridwatch, after all, so
he should know), but AIUI the coloured zones on the dials are a little
arbitrary, and don't indicate maximum available capacity in every
case.

precisely.

with coal and nuclear closing left right and centre, mothballed plant
and plant on very low readiness its hard to establish what the real
capacities are.

I adjust the scales periodically to reflect the actual maximum data

Oh dear. 22:30 and solar power on gridwatch is displayed as 0.0GW

Exactly as it should.

What was it the man said 'why would I lie'

Why indeed?

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 08:18:53 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

I am not sure how real that capacity reaslly is. When I have tried to
tot up power stations I cant get much over 8...

Wikipedia almost has it right

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o... ited_Kingdom

But using the transmission entry capacity register you can get a more definitive
figure

https://www.nationalgrid.com/sites/d...2002%2018.xlsx


As of 22nd Feb 2018 it is 14102MW (less 532MW for unit 1 at Fiddlers Ferry that
had an anciliary services business contract which does not require TEC) Less
396MW for Lynemouth (undergoing Biomass conversion) So it's a net 13174MW of
'coal'

Use the TEC registry info with care as some of the generation is embedded or
like Lynemouth it has not relinquished its 'Coal' TEC during the period of
biomass converion
--

On 26/02/18 17:21, The Other Mike wrote:
On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 08:18:53 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

I am not sure how real that capacity reaslly is. When I have tried to
tot up power stations I cant get much over 8...

Wikipedia almost has it right

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o... ited_Kingdom

But using the transmission entry capacity register you can get a more definitive
figure

https://www.nationalgrid.com/sites/d...2002%2018.xlsx


As of 22nd Feb 2018 it is 14102MW (less 532MW for unit 1 at Fiddlers Ferry that
had an anciliary services business contract which does not require TEC) Less
396MW for Lynemouth (undergoing Biomass conversion) So it's a net 13174MW of
'coal'

Use the TEC registry info with care as some of the generation is embedded or
like Lynemouth it has not relinquished its 'Coal' TEC during the period of
biomass converion

Thanks for that mike


--
Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed.

In article , The Other Mike
scribeth thus
On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 08:18:53 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

I am not sure how real that capacity reaslly is. When I have tried to
tot up power stations I cant get much over 8...

Wikipedia almost has it right

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ions_in_the_Un
ited_Kingdom

But using the transmission entry capacity register you can get a more definitive
figure

https://www.nationalgrid.com/sites/d...egister%2022%2
002%2018.xlsx


As of 22nd Feb 2018 it is 14102MW (less 532MW for unit 1 at Fiddlers Ferry that
had an anciliary services business contract which does not require TEC) Less
396MW for Lynemouth (undergoing Biomass conversion) So it's a net 13174MW of
'coal'

Use the TEC registry info with care as some of the generation is embedded or
like Lynemouth it has not relinquished its 'Coal' TEC during the period of
biomass converion

Is there a similar site for the Gas supply I've often wondered?...
--
Tony Sayer

Bancom

On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 19:55:24 +0000, tony sayer wrote:

Is there a similar site for the Gas supply I've often wondered?...

Not 'public' as far as I know for the gas entry capacity but there are sources
elsewhere for what volumes the LNG terminals and the pipe to Norway can handle.

There is this, which is the equivalent of the bmreports

http://mip-prod-web.azurewebsites.ne...lingView/Index

Real time flows into the gas transmission system refeshed every 2 mins, forecast
today demand and previous day actual demand, forecast demands 3,4 and 5 days
ahead and storage / import volumes.

Lots of descriptive text here for the various options

http://mip-prod-web.azurewebsites.net/Help/Index

--

On 25/02/18 14:11, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 21:07:18 +0000, The Other Mike
wrote:

On 24 Feb 2018 19:09:26 GMT, David wrote:

I do look at the site from time to time and from previous chats I expect
nuclear to be going hell for leather, wind and solar to be doing what the
weather dictates, and CCGT filling in the gaps, with coal kicking in when
the warm brown stuff hits the rotating object. OCGT when all else fails.

Tonight coal is almost up against the stops and CCGT is just strolling
along at about 11 GW with plenty to spare.

Is there some kind of special offer on coal power at the moment?

Nothing other then using allocated hours under the Industrial
Emissions Directive, gas supplies in Europe being limited, selling
into the market gas bought on forward contracts and storage being
topped up.

https://www.reuters.com/article/euro...-idUSL8N1QD50V

http://mip-prod-web.azurewebsites.ne...lingView/Index

Coal today and for the past 24 hours at 6.5 - 7GW is nowhere 'near
the stops'

There is currently 12781 MW of coal capacity 2-14 days ahead (same as
for today but that was declared Thursday)

Minimum margin for today was 14279MW at around 7pm

https://www.bmreports.com/bmrs/?q=ge...putusable-2-14

So European gas has become expensive, but we're still importing
electricity from Europe. I'm not sure I see the logic of that. I would
have thought we'd be running our coal-fired stations hard and
exporting the electricity to Europe.

We do when there is a shortfall, but primarily Germany and France export
and they are not gas - they are coal and nuclear by and large.


I did wonder whether it was one or more coal-fired stations running
down their coal stocks prior to closure later this year and selling
off their electricity at knock-down prices. Which raises the question
as to what does happen to coal stocks when a power station closes? I
can't see them carting off what remains to another station; hardly
economic, I wouldn't think. Do they just run it down gradually until
there's nothing left and then close, dribbling the electricity into
the grid for what they can get for it as they go?

Coal power stations have their running hours pre-ordained, and so know
pretty much how much coal to stock for the end of working life.

I would imagine they run them until they run out of coal just shy of the
working hours limits :-)




--
The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all
private property.

Karl Marx

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 14:11:08 +0000, Chris Hogg wrote:


I did wonder whether it was one or more coal-fired stations running
down their coal stocks prior to closure later this year and selling
off their electricity at knock-down prices. Which raises the question
as to what does happen to coal stocks when a power station closes? I
can't see them carting off what remains to another station; hardly
economic, I wouldn't think. Do they just run it down gradually until
there's nothing left and then close, dribbling the electricity into
the grid for what they can get for it as they go?

Ferrybridge C still had huge coal stocks when it closed (March 2016) as it ran
at lower load factors than expected in the winter of 2015/16 and had less output
capability because one of the two units with flue gas desulphurisation was
placed permanently out of action in 2014.

The rerouted A1M now passes the other side of the station to the original A1 and
you can easily see the coal storage area. They still light it for some unknown
reason.

Some coal stocks were still there in Autumn 2017 the last time I passed by some
18 months after it last generated. Most if not all was transferred by rail to
Fiddlers Ferry which like Ferrybridge C is owned by SSE.

--

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 19:09:26 +0000, David wrote:

Is there some kind of special offer on coal power at the moment?

That gives me a great idea. If the Krauts get uppity over our Brexit
deal, we should fire up all the old coal power stations and give 'em a
reminder of good old 1970s style sulphurous pollution and its wonderful
defoliant effects on their precious Black Forest. Anyone remember acid
rain? :-



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protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 23:01:56 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:

They are doing this to themselves already, because they shut down a lot
of their nukes and have now had to restart some lignite power stations.
So we don't need to bother.

Indeed, but I was only joking of course.



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On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 19:09:26 +0000, David wrote:

I do look at the site from time to time and from previous chats I expect
nuclear to be going hell for leather, wind and solar to be doing what
the weather dictates, and CCGT filling in the gaps, with coal kicking in
when the warm brown stuff hits the rotating object. OCGT when all else
fails.

Tonight coal is almost up against the stops and CCGT is just strolling
along at about 11 GW with plenty to spare.

Is there some kind of special offer on coal power at the moment?

Solar's contribution showing as 4MW at 22.30 - is there a surprise full
moon we don't know about?




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On 24/02/18 22:31, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 19:09:26 +0000, David wrote:

I do look at the site from time to time and from previous chats I expect
nuclear to be going hell for leather, wind and solar to be doing what
the weather dictates, and CCGT filling in the gaps, with coal kicking in
when the warm brown stuff hits the rotating object. OCGT when all else
fails.

Tonight coal is almost up against the stops and CCGT is just strolling
along at about 11 GW with plenty to spare.

Is there some kind of special offer on coal power at the moment?

Solar's contribution showing as 4MW at 22.30 - is there a surprise full
moon we don't know about?




I dont think so...


select timestamp,solar from day where timestamp like "2018-02-24 22:%";
+---------------------+-------+
| timestamp | solar |
+---------------------+-------+
| 2018-02-24 22:00:33 | 0 |
| 2018-02-24 22:05:34 | 0 |
| 2018-02-24 22:10:33 | 0 |
| 2018-02-24 22:15:33 | 0 |
| 2018-02-24 22:20:33 | 0 |
| 2018-02-24 22:25:34 | 0 |
| 2018-02-24 22:30:34 | 0 |
| 2018-02-24 22:35:33 | 0 |
| 2018-02-24 22:40:34 | 0 |
| 2018-02-24 22:45:33 | 0 |
| 2018-02-24 22:50:33 | 0 |
| 2018-02-24 22:55:33 | 0 |
+---------------------+-------+

Solar was being recorded as bugger all, correctly, at that time.


--
The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with
what it actually is.

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 08:24:41 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 24/02/18 22:31, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 19:09:26 +0000, David wrote:

I do look at the site from time to time and from previous chats I
expect nuclear to be going hell for leather, wind and solar to be
doing what the weather dictates, and CCGT filling in the gaps, with
coal kicking in when the warm brown stuff hits the rotating object.
OCGT when all else fails.

Tonight coal is almost up against the stops and CCGT is just strolling
along at about 11 GW with plenty to spare.

Is there some kind of special offer on coal power at the moment?

Solar's contribution showing as 4MW at 22.30 - is there a surprise full
moon we don't know about?




I dont think so...


select timestamp,solar from day where timestamp like "2018-02-24 22:%";
+---------------------+-------+
| timestamp | solar |
+---------------------+-------+
| 2018-02-24 22:00:33 | 0 |
| 2018-02-24 22:05:34 | 0 |
| 2018-02-24 22:10:33 | 0 |
| 2018-02-24 22:15:33 | 0 |
| 2018-02-24 22:20:33 | 0 |
| 2018-02-24 22:25:34 | 0 |
| 2018-02-24 22:30:34 | 0 |
| 2018-02-24 22:35:33 | 0 |
| 2018-02-24 22:40:34 | 0 |
| 2018-02-24 22:45:33 | 0 |
| 2018-02-24 22:50:33 | 0 |
| 2018-02-24 22:55:33 | 0 |
+---------------------+-------+

Solar was being recorded as bugger all, correctly, at that time.

Er, nope! It was being shown as 0.004GW to be precise, at precisely
22.30. Maybe you have a bug in the software because that's exactly what
it reported.



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On 25/02/18 10:31, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 08:24:41 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 24/02/18 22:31, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 19:09:26 +0000, David wrote:

I do look at the site from time to time and from previous chats I
expect nuclear to be going hell for leather, wind and solar to be
doing what the weather dictates, and CCGT filling in the gaps, with
coal kicking in when the warm brown stuff hits the rotating object.
OCGT when all else fails.

Tonight coal is almost up against the stops and CCGT is just strolling
along at about 11 GW with plenty to spare.

Is there some kind of special offer on coal power at the moment?

Solar's contribution showing as 4MW at 22.30 - is there a surprise full
moon we don't know about?




I dont think so...


select timestamp,solar from day where timestamp like "2018-02-24 22:%";
+---------------------+-------+
| timestamp | solar |
+---------------------+-------+
| 2018-02-24 22:00:33 | 0 |
| 2018-02-24 22:05:34 | 0 |
| 2018-02-24 22:10:33 | 0 |
| 2018-02-24 22:15:33 | 0 |
| 2018-02-24 22:20:33 | 0 |
| 2018-02-24 22:25:34 | 0 |
| 2018-02-24 22:30:34 | 0 |
| 2018-02-24 22:35:33 | 0 |
| 2018-02-24 22:40:34 | 0 |
| 2018-02-24 22:45:33 | 0 |
| 2018-02-24 22:50:33 | 0 |
| 2018-02-24 22:55:33 | 0 |
+---------------------+-------+

Solar was being recorded as bugger all, correctly, at that time.

Er, nope! It was being shown as 0.004GW to be precise,

where?

I have double checked the software and I cant see how it could be possible

The same value gets written to the database as is used by gridwatch to
drive the dials.

I can only assume you had a stale page cached in the browser.




at precisely
22.30. Maybe you have a bug in the software because that's exactly what
it reported.

No, that may have been what your browser reported...






--
Theres a mighty big difference between good, sound reasons and reasons
that sound good.

Burton Hillis (William Vaughn, American columnist)

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 10:45:50 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

No, that may have been what your browser reported...

I can only suggest you take a look yourself tonight at around the same
time as the reading may well repeat itself.


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Make hay while the sun shines, or to put it another way, lets use it while
we still can before its environmentally impossible.

Thing is that back in the old days of Tomorrows World there were stories of
how to burn coal cleanly and here we are all these years later seeming to
have given up.

Brian

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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
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"David" wrote in message
...
I do look at the site from time to time and from previous chats I expect
nuclear to be going hell for leather, wind and solar to be doing what the
weather dictates, and CCGT filling in the gaps, with coal kicking in when
the warm brown stuff hits the rotating object. OCGT when all else fails.

Tonight coal is almost up against the stops and CCGT is just strolling
along at about 11 GW with plenty to spare.

Is there some kind of special offer on coal power at the moment?

Cheers



Dave R

--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

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On Sunday, 25 February 2018 08:42:52 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:
Make hay while the sun shines, or to put it another way, lets use it while
we still can before its environmentally impossible.

Thing is that back in the old days of Tomorrows World there were stories of
how to burn coal cleanly and here we are all these years later seeming to
have given up.

Burning coal cleanly was never and never will be possible.

harry wrote:

On Sunday, 25 February 2018 08:42:52 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:
Make hay while the sun shines, or to put it another way, lets use it while
we still can before its environmentally impossible.

Thing is that back in the old days of Tomorrows World there were stories of
how to burn coal cleanly and here we are all these years later seeming to
have given up.

Burning coal cleanly was never and never will be possible.

Have you considered putting the cooling towers on a colder planet?

--

Roger Hayter

On 25/02/18 09:59, Roger Hayter wrote:
harry wrote:

On Sunday, 25 February 2018 08:42:52 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:
Make hay while the sun shines, or to put it another way, lets use it while
we still can before its environmentally impossible.

Thing is that back in the old days of Tomorrows World there were stories of
how to burn coal cleanly and here we are all these years later seeming to
have given up.

Burning coal cleanly was never and never will be possible.

Have you considered putting the cooling towers on a colder planet?

Have youi considered working out what 'clean' actually means?



--
€œBut what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an
hypothesis!€�

Mary Wollstonecraft

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 25/02/18 09:59, Roger Hayter wrote:
harry wrote:

On Sunday, 25 February 2018 08:42:52 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:
Make hay while the sun shines, or to put it another way, lets use it while
we still can before its environmentally impossible.

Thing is that back in the old days of Tomorrows World there were
stories of how to burn coal cleanly and here we are all these years
later seeming to have given up.

Burning coal cleanly was never and never will be possible.

Have you considered putting the cooling towers on a colder planet?

Have youi considered working out what 'clean' actually means?

No gaseous products of combustion?

--

Roger Hayter

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 08:42:45 +0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

Make hay while the sun shines, or to put it another way, lets use it
while we still can before its environmentally impossible.

Thing is that back in the old days of Tomorrows World there were stories
of how to burn coal cleanly and here we are all these years later
seeming to have given up.

Yup, same with diesel engines. A ****-poor decision IMV.




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On 25/02/18 10:32, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 08:42:45 +0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

Make hay while the sun shines, or to put it another way, lets use it
while we still can before its environmentally impossible.

Thing is that back in the old days of Tomorrows World there were stories
of how to burn coal cleanly and here we are all these years later
seeming to have given up.

Yup, same with diesel engines. A ****-poor decision IMV.




All things are possible, but all the free lunches were eaten long ago,
and clean coal burning* comes at a price which probably exceeds niclear
power.

Of course try making 'renewable' energy with zero environmental impact!
Quite apart from the massive structures, and the bird kills, every
single MWh it produces has been taken from the environment it would
otherwise have impacted.



*=zero CO2 in the air...

--
€œBut what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an
hypothesis!€�

Mary Wollstonecraft

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 08:42:45 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:
Thing is that back in the old days of Tomorrows World there were stories of
how to burn coal cleanly and here we are all these years later seeming to
have given up.

There was a lot of talk about fluidised bed combustion. But I think
that was mainly aimed at increased efficiency and the ability to
remove sulphur dioxide because acid rain was the big environmental
worry then.

On 25/02/18 11:06, Caecilius wrote:
On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 08:42:45 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:
Thing is that back in the old days of Tomorrows World there were stories of
how to burn coal cleanly and here we are all these years later seeming to
have given up.

There was a lot of talk about fluidised bed combustion. But I think
that was mainly aimed at increased efficiency and the ability to
remove sulphur dioxide because acid rain was the big environmental
worry then.

Use of metal oxide burning reactions produces an almost pure CO2 (Nox
and nitrogen free) exhaust but even then you have to scrub for S02 and
of course CO2 if you actually give a damn.

--
€œA leader is best When people barely know he exists. Of a good leader,
who talks little,When his work is done, his aim fulfilled,They will say,
€œWe did this ourselves.€�

ۥ Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 11:06:35 +0000, Caecilius wrote:

There was a lot of talk about fluidised bed combustion. But I think that
was mainly aimed at increased efficiency and the ability to remove
sulphur dioxide because acid rain was the big environmental worry then.

There is *always* some big, environmental scare they try to frighten us
into paying higher taxes over.




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On 25/02/18 16:51, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 11:06:35 +0000, Caecilius wrote:

There was a lot of talk about fluidised bed combustion. But I think that
was mainly aimed at increased efficiency and the ability to remove
sulphur dioxide because acid rain was the big environmental worry then.

There is *always* some big, environmental scare they try to frighten us
into paying higher taxes over.




All government is a self legalising protection racket...

--
The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with
what it actually is.

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 17:10:24 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

All government is a self legalising protection racket...

"Thou shalt not steal" - unless you're the government and you exempt
yourself. T'was ever thus....



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