I boobed with my earlier cry for help.
I said that the existing boiler was floor-standing.
It wasn't.

The lighting was so poor then that I couldn't tell!

I have now had some professional advice and need to find a wall-mounted
heat-only 15KV boiler whose flue is at the back, not at the top.

Any suggestions?


--
Mageia 5.1 for x86_64, Kernel:4.4.82-desktop-1.mga5
KDE version 4.14.5 on an AMD Phenom II X4 Black edition.

On 22/02/2018 17:07, Pinnerite wrote:
I boobed with my earlier cry for help.
I said that the existing boiler was floor-standing.
It wasn't.

The lighting was so poor then that I couldn't tell!

I have now had some professional advice and need to find a wall-mounted
heat-only 15KV boiler whose flue is at the back, not at the top.

Not aware of any that have the flue at the back these days. However I
can't see that matters so long as you get one that will fit in the
available vertical space.

(typically a flue emerges from the top straight into an elbow, and then
goes out directly through the wall - so rear exit but above the boiler)

Do you mean heat only, or would system be ok as well?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Thursday, 22 February 2018 18:14:41 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 22/02/2018 17:07, Pinnerite wrote:
I boobed with my earlier cry for help.
I said that the existing boiler was floor-standing.
It wasn't.

The lighting was so poor then that I couldn't tell!

I have now had some professional advice and need to find a wall-mounted
heat-only 15KV boiler whose flue is at the back, not at the top.

Not aware of any that have the flue at the back these days. However I
can't see that matters so long as you get one that will fit in the
available vertical space.

(typically a flue emerges from the top straight into an elbow, and then
goes out directly through the wall - so rear exit but above the boiler)

Do you mean heat only, or would system be ok as well?


There's probably the odd ancient thing on ebay with rear flue, but I can't see them being any real use. It may be time to re-site.


NT

John Rumm wrote:

On 22/02/2018 17:07, Pinnerite wrote:
I boobed with my earlier cry for help.
I said that the existing boiler was floor-standing.
It wasn't.

The lighting was so poor then that I couldn't tell!

I have now had some professional advice and need to find a wall-mounted
heat-only 15KV boiler whose flue is at the back, not at the top.

Not aware of any that have the flue at the back these days. However I
can't see that matters so long as you get one that will fit in the
available vertical space.

(typically a flue emerges from the top straight into an elbow, and then
goes out directly through the wall - so rear exit but above the boiler)

Do you mean heat only, or would system be ok as well?



No. I want to make it easier and less messy, so a direct replacement of a
heating-only boiler (plus keeping an airing cupboard as such) indicates a
heat-only jobby. I have found a couple. Just waiting for some extra data for
the second one.

Thanks for the replies.

Alan

--
Mageia 5.1 for x86_64, Kernel:4.4.82-desktop-1.mga5
KDE version 4.14.5 on an AMD Phenom II X4 Black edition.

On 23/02/2018 09:22, Pinnerite wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

On 22/02/2018 17:07, Pinnerite wrote:
I boobed with my earlier cry for help.
I said that the existing boiler was floor-standing.
It wasn't.

The lighting was so poor then that I couldn't tell!

I have now had some professional advice and need to find a wall-mounted
heat-only 15KV boiler whose flue is at the back, not at the top.

Not aware of any that have the flue at the back these days. However I
can't see that matters so long as you get one that will fit in the
available vertical space.

(typically a flue emerges from the top straight into an elbow, and then
goes out directly through the wall - so rear exit but above the boiler)

Do you mean heat only, or would system be ok as well?



No. I want to make it easier and less messy, so a direct replacement of a
heating-only boiler

Yup, there are heating only boiler out there. Vaillant do their 400
range of models for example, which include some that can work on a
vented system. (they are also quite small so may fit your requirement in
more ways than one)

(plus keeping an airing cupboard as such) indicates a
heat-only jobby. I have found a couple. Just waiting for some extra data for
the second one.

Keep in mind that the heat lost from the case on a modern condenser is
very low - so you can't rely on the boiler to keep an airing cupboard
warm - you would likely need a small rad in there.

(also modern boilers are full of electronics, and hence will be more
reliable if not kept in a room with a high ambient temperature)



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

wrote:

On Thursday, 22 February 2018 18:14:41 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 22/02/2018 17:07, Pinnerite wrote:
I boobed with my earlier cry for help.
I said that the existing boiler was floor-standing.
It wasn't.

The lighting was so poor then that I couldn't tell!

I have now had some professional advice and need to find a wall-mounted
heat-only 15KV boiler whose flue is at the back, not at the top.

Not aware of any that have the flue at the back these days. However I
can't see that matters so long as you get one that will fit in the
available vertical space.

(typically a flue emerges from the top straight into an elbow, and then
goes out directly through the wall - so rear exit but above the boiler)

Do you mean heat only, or would system be ok as well?


There's probably the odd ancient thing on ebay with rear flue, but I can't
see them being any real use. It may be time to re-site.


NT

I rather fancy the Ideal logic Heat 15 but cannot find a picture of the rear
to be confident.


--
Mageia 5.1 for x86_64, Kernel:4.4.82-desktop-1.mga5
KDE version 4.14.5 on an AMD Phenom II X4 Black edition.

On 23/02/2018 10:51, John Rumm wrote:
On 23/02/2018 09:22, Pinnerite wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

On 22/02/2018 17:07, Pinnerite wrote:
I boobed with my earlier cry for help.
I said that the existing boiler was floor-standing.
It wasn't.

The lighting was so poor then that I couldn't tell!

I have now had some professional advice and need to find a wall-mounted
heat-only 15KV boiler whose flue is at the back, not at the top.

Not aware of any that have the flue at the back these days. However I
can't see that matters so long as you get one that will fit in the
available vertical space.

(typically a flue emerges from the top straight into an elbow, and then
goes out directly through the wall - so rear exit but above the boiler)

Do you mean heat only, or would system be ok as well?



No. I want to make it easier and less messy, so a direct replacement of a
heating-only boiler

Yup, there are heating only boiler out there. Vaillant do their 400
range of models for example, which include some that can work on a
vented system. (they are also quite small so may fit your requirement in
more ways than one)

The 400 range also have a rear flue option which the OP wants.

The 400 series was completely revamped in 2015 and they now have a newer
aluminium heat exchanger rather than stainless steel. The stainless
steel heat exchanger in the older models had a very high pressure drop
and gave problems where pump sizing wasn't spot on, also they were more
susceptible to clog up especially when used on older systems. I believe
the new heat exchanger has much larger waterways.


--
Dazza

On 02/03/2018 17:40, gremlin_95 wrote:
On 23/02/2018 10:51, John Rumm wrote:
On 23/02/2018 09:22, Pinnerite wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

On 22/02/2018 17:07, Pinnerite wrote:
I boobed with my earlier cry for help.
I said that the existing boiler was floor-standing.
It wasn't.

The lighting was so poor then that I couldn't tell!

I have now had some professional advice and need to find a
wall-mounted
heat-only 15KV boiler whose flue is at the back, not at the top.

Not aware of any that have the flue at the back these days. However I
can't see that matters so long as you get one that will fit in the
available vertical space.

(typically a flue emerges from the top straight into an elbow, and then
goes out directly through the wall - so rear exit but above the boiler)

Do you mean heat only, or would system be ok as well?



No. I want to make it easier and less messy, so a direct replacement
of a
heating-only boiler

Yup, there are heating only boiler out there. Vaillant do their 400
range of models for example, which include some that can work on a
vented system. (they are also quite small so may fit your requirement in
more ways than one)

The 400 range also have a rear flue option which the OP wants.

The 400 series was completely revamped in 2015 and they now have a newer
aluminium heat exchanger rather than stainless steel. The stainless
steel heat exchanger in the older models had a very high pressure drop
and gave problems where pump sizing wasn't spot on, also they were more
susceptible to clog up especially when used on older systems. I believe
the new heat exchanger has much larger waterways.

Aluminium heat exchangers with aluminium fins in acidic flue gas are a
bad idea.

Why are they less likely to clog, apart from having to be replaced every
few years?

On 22/02/2018 17:07, Pinnerite wrote:
I boobed with my earlier cry for help.
I said that the existing boiler was floor-standing.
It wasn't.

The lighting was so poor then that I couldn't tell!

I have now had some professional advice and need to find a wall-mounted
heat-only 15KV boiler whose flue is at the back, not at the top.

Any suggestions?



15 what?

Bill

On Saturday, 3 March 2018 07:54:37 UTC, Bill Wright wrote:
On 22/02/2018 17:07, Pinnerite wrote:
I boobed with my earlier cry for help.
I said that the existing boiler was floor-standing.
It wasn't.

The lighting was so poor then that I couldn't tell!

I have now had some professional advice and need to find a wall-mounted
heat-only 15KV boiler whose flue is at the back, not at the top.

Any suggestions?



15 what?

Bill

it stops people messing with it
Maybe it's 15 kilo-whats


NT

On 03/03/2018 07:54, Bill Wright wrote:
On 22/02/2018 17:07, Pinnerite wrote:
I boobed with my earlier cry for help.
I said that the existing boiler was floor-standing.
It wasn't.

The lighting was so poor then that I couldn't tell!

I have now had some professional advice and need to find a wall-mounted
heat-only 15KV boiler whose flue is at the back, not at the top.

Any suggestions?



15 what?

Domestic gas has to be phased out by about 2030 to meet climate change
targets so an electric boiler with high efficiency supply could be
sensible forward planning.


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 02/03/2018 19:08, Fredxx wrote:
On 02/03/2018 17:40, gremlin_95 wrote:
On 23/02/2018 10:51, John Rumm wrote:
On 23/02/2018 09:22, Pinnerite wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

On 22/02/2018 17:07, Pinnerite wrote:
I boobed with my earlier cry for help.
I said that the existing boiler was floor-standing.
It wasn't.

The lighting was so poor then that I couldn't tell!

I have now had some professional advice and need to find a
wall-mounted
heat-only 15KV boiler whose flue is at the back, not at the top.

Not aware of any that have the flue at the back these days. However I
can't see that matters so long as you get one that will fit in the
available vertical space.

(typically a flue emerges from the top straight into an elbow, and
then
goes out directly through the wall - so rear exit but above the
boiler)

Do you mean heat only, or would system be ok as well?



No. I want to make it easier and less messy, so a direct replacement
of a
heating-only boiler

Yup, there are heating only boiler out there. Vaillant do their 400
range of models for example, which include some that can work on a
vented system. (they are also quite small so may fit your requirement in
more ways than one)

The 400 range also have a rear flue option which the OP wants.

The 400 series was completely revamped in 2015 and they now have a
newer aluminium heat exchanger rather than stainless steel. The
stainless steel heat exchanger in the older models had a very high
pressure drop and gave problems where pump sizing wasn't spot on, also
they were more susceptible to clog up especially when used on older
systems. I believe the new heat exchanger has much larger waterways.

Aluminium heat exchangers with aluminium fins in acidic flue gas are a
bad idea.

I believe it's some sort of alloy. Worcester use aluminium as do a few
other manufacturers. I still don't think they have the same longevity as
SS though.

Why are they less likely to clog, apart from having to be replaced every
few years?

The waterways are much larger when compared to what was on the previous
generation HX.



--
Dazza

In article ,
gremlin_95 wrote:
I believe it's some sort of alloy. Worcester use aluminium as do a few
other manufacturers. I still don't think they have the same longevity as
SS though.

Ally is much cheaper and easier to make, though. You get what you pay for,
as they say.

--
*Many people quit looking for work when they find a job *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Robin wrote:
Domestic gas has to be phased out by about 2030 to meet climate change
targets so an electric boiler with high efficiency supply could be
sensible forward planning.

If that really is the case, it's about time our government did the forward
planning as there's not a cat in hell's chance our electricity supply and
distribution could cope with everywhere having electric heating by 2030.
My gas boiler is 30 kW and my electricity supply 24 kW max.

And what method are we going to use to generate all that extra electricity?

--
*Laugh alone and the world thinks you're an idiot.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article , Robin
wrote:
Domestic gas has to be phased out by about 2030 to meet climate change
targets so an electric boiler with high efficiency supply could be
sensible forward planning.

If that really is the case, it's about time our government did the
forward planning as there's not a cat in hell's chance our electricity
supply and distribution could cope with everywhere having electric
heating by 2030. My gas boiler is 30 kW and my electricity supply 24 kW
max.

And what method are we going to use to generate all that extra
electricity?

gas?

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 03/03/2018 11:26, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Robin wrote:
Domestic gas has to be phased out by about 2030 to meet climate change
targets so an electric boiler with high efficiency supply could be
sensible forward planning.

If that really is the case, snip

It depends of course on other assumptions and who is making them. Eg
the Committee on Climate Change see natural gas lingering on until 2050.
Others though think it'll need to be faster as the 2030 targets assume
growth in the use of carbon neutral gas (e.g. hydrogen or biomethane)
and electrification (including heat pumps).

It'll probably start with a ban on sales of new gas boilers. (Note to
self: see if shares in CET Ltd for sale.)

[1] see e.g. "Next steps for UK heat policy", October 2016


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Robin wrote:

Domestic gas has to be phased out by about 2030 to meet climate change
targets

We might as well forget trying to build new homes and create
crypto-currencies, just go back to living in caves and litho-currency.

On 03/03/2018 09:25, gremlin_95 wrote:
On 02/03/2018 19:08, Fredxx wrote:
On 02/03/2018 17:40, gremlin_95 wrote:
On 23/02/2018 10:51, John Rumm wrote:
On 23/02/2018 09:22, Pinnerite wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

On 22/02/2018 17:07, Pinnerite wrote:
I boobed with my earlier cry for help.
I said that the existing boiler was floor-standing.
It wasn't.

The lighting was so poor then that I couldn't tell!

I have now had some professional advice and need to find a
wall-mounted
heat-only 15KV boiler whose flue is at the back, not at the top.

Not aware of any that have the flue at the back these days. However I
can't see that matters so long as you get one that will fit in the
available vertical space.

(typically a flue emerges from the top straight into an elbow, and
then
goes out directly through the wall - so rear exit but above the
boiler)

Do you mean heat only, or would system be ok as well?



No. I want to make it easier and less messy, so a direct replacement
of a
heating-only boiler

Yup, there are heating only boiler out there. Vaillant do their 400
range of models for example, which include some that can work on a
vented system. (they are also quite small so may fit your
requirement in
more ways than one)

The 400 range also have a rear flue option which the OP wants.

The 400 series was completely revamped in 2015 and they now have a
newer aluminium heat exchanger rather than stainless steel. The
stainless steel heat exchanger in the older models had a very high
pressure drop and gave problems where pump sizing wasn't spot on, also
they were more susceptible to clog up especially when used on older
systems. I believe the new heat exchanger has much larger waterways.

Aluminium heat exchangers with aluminium fins in acidic flue gas are a
bad idea.

I believe it's some sort of alloy. Worcester use aluminium as do a few
other manufacturers. I still don't think they have the same longevity as
SS though.

ISTR some describing them as silicon coated ali...



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 02/03/2018 17:40, gremlin_95 wrote:
On 23/02/2018 10:51, John Rumm wrote:
On 23/02/2018 09:22, Pinnerite wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

On 22/02/2018 17:07, Pinnerite wrote:
I boobed with my earlier cry for help.
I said that the existing boiler was floor-standing.
It wasn't.

The lighting was so poor then that I couldn't tell!

I have now had some professional advice and need to find a
wall-mounted
heat-only 15KV boiler whose flue is at the back, not at the top.

Not aware of any that have the flue at the back these days. However I
can't see that matters so long as you get one that will fit in the
available vertical space.

(typically a flue emerges from the top straight into an elbow, and then
goes out directly through the wall - so rear exit but above the boiler)

Do you mean heat only, or would system be ok as well?



No. I want to make it easier and less messy, so a direct replacement
of a
heating-only boiler

Yup, there are heating only boiler out there. Vaillant do their 400
range of models for example, which include some that can work on a
vented system. (they are also quite small so may fit your requirement in
more ways than one)

The 400 range also have a rear flue option which the OP wants.

Ah, that's handy to know. I did have a look a the pictures of the 400
series but did not spot the rear flue one, but had a feeling they might
have done one since its a popular choice for people looking for a heat
only boiler replacement.

The 400 series was completely revamped in 2015 and they now have a newer
aluminium heat exchanger rather than stainless steel. The stainless
steel heat exchanger in the older models had a very high pressure drop
and gave problems where pump sizing wasn't spot on, also they were more
susceptible to clog up especially when used on older systems. I believe
the new heat exchanger has much larger waterways.




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Saturday, 3 March 2018 12:35:13 UTC, Robin wrote:
On 03/03/2018 11:26, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Robin wrote:

Domestic gas has to be phased out by about 2030 to meet climate change
targets so an electric boiler with high efficiency supply could be
sensible forward planning.

If that really is the case, snip

It depends of course on other assumptions and who is making them. Eg
the Committee on Climate Change see natural gas lingering on until 2050.
Others though think it'll need to be faster as the 2030 targets assume
growth in the use of carbon neutral gas (e.g. hydrogen or biomethane)
and electrification (including heat pumps).

It'll probably start with a ban on sales of new gas boilers. (Note to
self: see if shares in CET Ltd for sale.)

[1] see e.g. "Next steps for UK heat policy", October 2016

Politicians can promise anything will be done by 2030, it means nothing. I don't know why people take any notice of such claims. Looking at the facts it seems more than a little unlikely.


NT

On 04/03/18 08:54, wrote:
Politicians can promise anything will be done by 2030, it means
nothing. I don't know why people take any notice of such claims.
Looking at the facts it seems more than a little unlikely.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-ge...-idUKKBN1EX0OW

Thed bit I like the vbest is the spin..

"Due to strong economic growth and higher-than-expected immigration,
Germany is likely to miss its national emissions target for 2020 without
any additional measures. "

Pretty much admits that strong economic growth is unachieveable with
'renewable energy'

Its all ******** and political expediency innit?



--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 03/03/2018 11:26, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Robin wrote:
Domestic gas has to be phased out by about 2030 to meet climate change
targets so an electric boiler with high efficiency supply could be
sensible forward planning.

If that really is the case, it's about time our government did the forward
planning as there's not a cat in hell's chance our electricity supply and
distribution could cope with everywhere having electric heating by 2030.
My gas boiler is 30 kW and my electricity supply 24 kW max.

And what method are we going to use to generate all that extra electricity?


A lot can happen in the next 10 years, technology wise. I'd agree,
though, that somebody is going to have to start thinking it through.

For now, homes could certainly have better insulation and use what
heating they have more efficiently. New homes could be looking at things
like heat pumps. And some folk could always put on a jumper ;-)

--
Cheers, Rob

On Sunday, 4 March 2018 09:22:25 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 04/03/18 08:54, tabbypurr wrote:

Politicians can promise anything will be done by 2030, it means
nothing. I don't know why people take any notice of such claims.
Looking at the facts it seems more than a little unlikely.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-ge...-idUKKBN1EX0OW

Thed bit I like the vbest is the spin..

"Due to strong economic growth and higher-than-expected immigration,
Germany is likely to miss its national emissions target for 2020 without
any additional measures. "

Pretty much admits that strong economic growth is unachieveable with
'renewable energy'

Its all ******** and political expediency innit?

Most things politicians say are b---. Their job is primarily seeking people's approval. Why would one think otherwise?

A politician that got honest would not get elected, as what the populace expects is not realistic. A classic example is more services for less taxes - which actually is achieveable but no politician appears to have any clue how. Reduce gross inefficiency and pointless spending on trivia. Advertising has also successfuly created a popular image of today's society that doesn't match reality, and the populace expects it.

Really it's relatively easy to solve many of our ills, but politicians aren't the ones knowledgeable & interested enough to do so.


NT

On 02/03/2018 19:08, Fredxx wrote:
On 02/03/2018 17:40, gremlin_95 wrote:
On 23/02/2018 10:51, John Rumm wrote:
On 23/02/2018 09:22, Pinnerite wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

On 22/02/2018 17:07, Pinnerite wrote:
I boobed with my earlier cry for help.
I said that the existing boiler was floor-standing.
It wasn't.

The lighting was so poor then that I couldn't tell!

I have now had some professional advice and need to find a
wall-mounted
heat-only 15KV boiler whose flue is at the back, not at the top.

Not aware of any that have the flue at the back these days. However I
can't see that matters so long as you get one that will fit in the
available vertical space.

(typically a flue emerges from the top straight into an elbow, and
then
goes out directly through the wall - so rear exit but above the
boiler)

Do you mean heat only, or would system be ok as well?



No. I want to make it easier and less messy, so a direct replacement
of a
heating-only boiler

Yup, there are heating only boiler out there. Vaillant do their 400
range of models for example, which include some that can work on a
vented system. (they are also quite small so may fit your requirement in
more ways than one)

The 400 range also have a rear flue option which the OP wants.

The 400 series was completely revamped in 2015 and they now have a
newer aluminium heat exchanger rather than stainless steel. The
stainless steel heat exchanger in the older models had a very high
pressure drop and gave problems where pump sizing wasn't spot on, also
they were more susceptible to clog up especially when used on older
systems. I believe the new heat exchanger has much larger waterways.

Aluminium heat exchangers with aluminium fins in acidic flue gas are a
bad idea.

Why are they less likely to clog, apart from having to be replaced every
few years?


I have had a Vaillant ecotec 415 for 9 years, it decided to start
dripping water this weekend, but the water was cold and clean.
It is heating radiators and open vent hot water system.
May have been the condensate pipe frozen or a large icicle on the air
intake and exhaust pipes.
Come Saturday night, the drip had stopped so I assumed it was due to the
ice melting on the inlet and outlet pipes.
The heating continued to work and the boiler did not shut down.
All in all we have had no problems with the 415 system.

On 03/03/2018 08:45, Robin wrote:
On 03/03/2018 07:54, Bill Wright wrote:
On 22/02/2018 17:07, Pinnerite wrote:
I boobed with my earlier cry for help.
I said that the existing boiler was floor-standing.
It wasn't.

The lighting was so poor then that I couldn't tell!

I have now had some professional advice and need to find a wall-mounted
heat-only 15KV boiler whose flue is at the back, not at the top.

Any suggestions?



15 what?

Domestic gas has to be phased out by about 2030 to meet climate change
targets so an electric boiler with high efficiency supply could be
sensible forward planning.


I feel we won't have to be concerned about 2030 and climate change,
don't know why.

On 03/03/2018 08:45, Robin wrote:

Domestic gas has to be phased out by about 2030 to meet climate change
targets so an electric boiler with high efficiency supply could be
sensible forward planning.

An electric boiler driven from a gas power station will always be less
efficient than a gas boiler.

An electric heat pump might be reasonable, but you really need UFH with it.

Andy

On 04/03/2018 09:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
"Due to strong economic growth and higher-than-expected immigration,
Germany is likely to miss its national emissions target for 2020 without
any additional measures. "

Pretty much admits that strong economic growth is unachieveable with
'renewable energy'

Its all ******** and political expediency innit?

Nothing to do with turning all the nukes off then?

Andy

On 03/03/2018 08:45, Robin wrote:

Domestic gas has to be phased out by about 2030 to meet climate change
targets

They can **** off with that idea.

Bill

On Tue, 06 Mar 2018 08:09:28 +0000, Bill Wright wrote:

On 03/03/2018 08:45, Robin wrote:

Domestic gas has to be phased out by about 2030 to meet climate change
targets

They can **** off with that idea.

+1

--
Johnny B Good

On 06/03/2018 19:23, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Tue, 06 Mar 2018 08:09:28 +0000, Bill Wright wrote:

On 03/03/2018 08:45, Robin wrote:

Domestic gas has to be phased out by about 2030 to meet climate change
targets

They can **** off with that idea.

+1

To be fair, National Grid last year[1] reckoned there will still be 7
million gas boilers in 2050 (instead of 25 million in a "steady state")
on the "2 degree" model. So you have a good chance - unless of course
you are in an area where there's a compulsory switch to - say - hydrogen

[1] Future Energy Scenarios July 2017,
http://fes.nationalgrid.com/fes-document/




--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 07/03/2018 09:51, Robin wrote:
On 06/03/2018 19:23, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Tue, 06 Mar 2018 08:09:28 +0000, Bill Wright wrote:
On 03/03/2018 08:45, Robin wrote:

Domestic gas has to be phased out by about 2030 to meet climate change
targets

They can **** off with that idea.

+1

To be fair, National Grid last year[1] reckoned there will still be 7
million gas boilers in 2050 (instead of 25 million in a "steady state")
on the "2 degree" model.

So how are people going to heat their houses?

--
Max Demian

On 07/03/2018 11:50, Max Demian wrote:
On 07/03/2018 09:51, Robin wrote:
On 06/03/2018 19:23, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Tue, 06 Mar 2018 08:09:28 +0000, Bill Wright wrote:
On 03/03/2018 08:45, Robin wrote:

Domestic gas has to be phased out by about 2030 to meet climate change
targets

They can **** off with that idea.

+1

To be fair, National Grid last year[1] reckoned there will still be 7
million gas boilers in 2050 (instead of 25 million in a "steady
state") on the "2 degree" model.

So how are people going to heat their houses?

It's all in the cited report - heat pumps, hybrid heat pumps, etc etc.

Plus better insulated homes.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 07/03/18 12:38, Robin wrote:
On 07/03/2018 11:50, Max Demian wrote:
On 07/03/2018 09:51, Robin wrote:
On 06/03/2018 19:23, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Tue, 06 Mar 2018 08:09:28 +0000, Bill Wright wrote:
On 03/03/2018 08:45, Robin wrote:

Domestic gas has to be phased out by about 2030 to meet climate
change
targets

They can **** off with that idea.

+1

To be fair, National Grid last year[1] reckoned there will still be 7
million gas boilers in 2050 (instead of 25 million in a "steady
state") on the "2 degree" model.

So how are people going to heat their houses?

It's all in the cited report - heat pumps, hybrid heat pumps, etc etc.

Plus better insulated homes.


When I looked at heat pumps electricity was about 3 times as expensive
as oil, but the heat pump did a 3:1 uplift in terns of power out to
power in...so breakeven.

Given sane planning, which is of course a big ask these days, the
critical turnover is when gas is more than 1/3rd as expensive as nuclear
power.

Right now that is in fact the case IIRC at the wholesale level.

The staggering cost of green policies that do nothing is the next
political hurdle post brexit.

Th eleft and te greens have pushed stupdly exoensive energy polices that
havent changed CO2 emissiins one iota, and repeatedly blocked nuclear
power and fracked gas, which actually DO reduce emissions. Not that that
makes any difference to climate of course.

LED lamps, better insulation, heat pumps, better design of kit - these
are all cost effective ways to save energy

Windmills and solar panels and stopping nuclear power and fracking are
all completely counter productive.

This has been known for decades.




--
Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.

On 07/03/18 11:50, Max Demian wrote:
On 07/03/2018 09:51, Robin wrote:
On 06/03/2018 19:23, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Tue, 06 Mar 2018 08:09:28 +0000, Bill Wright wrote:
On 03/03/2018 08:45, Robin wrote:

Domestic gas has to be phased out by about 2030 to meet climate change
targets

They can **** off with that idea.

+1

To be fair, National Grid last year[1] reckoned there will still be 7
million gas boilers in 2050 (instead of 25 million in a "steady
state") on the "2 degree" model.

So how are people going to heat their houses?

Nuclear powered heat pumps
Or electricity, same as france.

Do you realise how LITTLE water you need to make a thernmal store big
enough to last the day so you heat off offpeak leccy only?



--
€œBut what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an
hypothesis!€�

Mary Wollstonecraft

On 07/03/2018 14:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


Nuclear powered heat pumps

Even more efficient if the heat pump's primary circuit core runs through
low level waste buried in the garden. Shame to waste all that heat!

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 07/03/18 14:30, Robin wrote:
On 07/03/2018 14:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


Nuclear powered heat pumps

Even more efficient if the heat pump's primary circuit core runs through
low level waste buried in the garden. Shame to waste all that heat!

I am afraid low level waste doesn't even get warm.

You need fizzing decay heat from ultra high level waste for that!

Which lasts week or two only.





--
In todays liberal progressive conflict-free education system, everyone
gets full Marx.

On Wed, 07 Mar 2018 12:38:32 +0000, Robin wrote:

On 07/03/2018 11:50, Max Demian wrote:
On 07/03/2018 09:51, Robin wrote:
On 06/03/2018 19:23, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Tue, 06 Mar 2018 08:09:28 +0000, Bill Wright wrote:
On 03/03/2018 08:45, Robin wrote:

Domestic gas has to be phased out by about 2030 to meet climate
change targets

They can **** off with that idea.

+1

To be fair, National Grid last year[1] reckoned there will still be 7
million gas boilers in 2050 (instead of 25 million in a "steady
state") on the "2 degree" model.

So how are people going to heat their houses?

It's all in the cited report - heat pumps, hybrid heat pumps, etc etc.

Plus better insulated homes.

That last statement doesn't really answer the question of *how* to
*heat* their houses unless levels of insulation are assumed to be taken
to such an extreme as to allow body heat alone to become sufficient to
maintain the home at a comfortable temperature.

--
Johnny B Good

On 07/03/2018 15:34, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Wed, 07 Mar 2018 12:38:32 +0000, Robin wrote:

On 07/03/2018 11:50, Max Demian wrote:
On 07/03/2018 09:51, Robin wrote:
On 06/03/2018 19:23, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Tue, 06 Mar 2018 08:09:28 +0000, Bill Wright wrote:
On 03/03/2018 08:45, Robin wrote:

Domestic gas has to be phased out by about 2030 to meet climate
change targets

They can **** off with that idea.

+1

To be fair, National Grid last year[1] reckoned there will still be 7
million gas boilers in 2050 (instead of 25 million in a "steady
state") on the "2 degree" model.

So how are people going to heat their houses?

It's all in the cited report - heat pumps, hybrid heat pumps, etc etc.

Plus better insulated homes.

That last statement doesn't really answer the question of *how* to
*heat* their houses unless levels of insulation are assumed to be taken
to such an extreme as to allow body heat alone to become sufficient to
maintain the home at a comfortable temperature.


If you want to play that game, *any* source of energy - including body
heat alone or the body heat of a pet budgie - will heat a house.

But most people read "heat a house" with an implied "to an acceptable
temperature". Then insulation does matter.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

In article , The Natural Philosopher
scribeth thus
On 07/03/18 11:50, Max Demian wrote:
On 07/03/2018 09:51, Robin wrote:
On 06/03/2018 19:23, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Tue, 06 Mar 2018 08:09:28 +0000, Bill Wright wrote:
On 03/03/2018 08:45, Robin wrote:

Domestic gas has to be phased out by about 2030 to meet climate change
targets

They can **** off with that idea.

+1

To be fair, National Grid last year[1] reckoned there will still be 7
million gas boilers in 2050 (instead of 25 million in a "steady
state") on the "2 degree" model.

So how are people going to heat their houses?

Nuclear powered heat pumps
Or electricity, same as france.



Do you realise how LITTLE water you need to make a thernmal store big
enough to last the day so you heat off offpeak leccy only?



How little or big or what size?..

--
Tony Sayer

On 09/03/18 10:58, tony sayer wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
scribeth thus
On 07/03/18 11:50, Max Demian wrote:
On 07/03/2018 09:51, Robin wrote:
On 06/03/2018 19:23, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Tue, 06 Mar 2018 08:09:28 +0000, Bill Wright wrote:
On 03/03/2018 08:45, Robin wrote:

Domestic gas has to be phased out by about 2030 to meet climate change
targets

They can **** off with that idea.

+1

To be fair, National Grid last year[1] reckoned there will still be 7
million gas boilers in 2050 (instead of 25 million in a "steady
state") on the "2 degree" model.

So how are people going to heat their houses?

Nuclear powered heat pumps
Or electricity, same as france.



Do you realise how LITTLE water you need to make a thernmal store big
enough to last the day so you heat off offpeak leccy only?



How little or big or what size?..

Lets say that a well insulated tank a meter deep under a whole house
heated to 60C or better overnight could keep a house warm throgh the on
peak day.


--
Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the
gospel of envy.

Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

Winston Churchill