This is tricky because I cannot supply full details but this is the tale (of
woe).

I really need some informed advice here.

My daughter and her family are waiting to move into a flat that was
previously my mother's. It has the original floor standing Celsia boiler,
inside a kitchen unit. It is conveniently adjacent to the gas meter.

The pipes run horizontally behind the kitchen units, through a wall to the
airing cupboard that houses both the cold tank and a hot water cylinder
beneath it. So the pipe runs are neat and efficient.

Behind the boiler is the pipe to the flu that runs through an outside wall
and can be seen at the front of the building.

The height inside the kitchen unit is 889/890 mm.

A British Gas salesman tested the cold water pressure (it looked pretty
fierce to me) and said, "you cannot have a Combi. Pressures too low".

His suggestion was to plonk a wall mounted unit on the opposite side of the
sink which clearly meant serious damage to the kitchen units and an
inefficient pipe run.

This is a two bedroom flat with a largish main room and the kitchen (316 cm
x 300 cm).

My four bedroom house has a 110,000 BTU boiler, so I would guess the flat
would around 50,000 to 60,000 BTUs (Correct me if I am wrong).

Is there a floor standing boiler that could replace the Celsia?

The right answer must be worth a beer or three?


--
Mageia 5.1 for x86_64, Kernel:4.4.82-desktop-1.mga5
KDE version 4.14.5 on an AMD Phenom II X4 Black edition.

Pinnerite wrote:

Is there a floor standing boiler that could replace the Celsia?

https://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/products/boilers/directory/greenstar-cdi-fs-regular

Seems OK size-wise, maybe overkill for a flat?

On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 18:17:08 +0000, Pinnerite wrote:

This is tricky because I cannot supply full details but this is the tale
(of woe).

I really need some informed advice here.

My daughter and her family are waiting to move into a flat that was
previously my mother's. It has the original floor standing Celsia
boiler, inside a kitchen unit. It is conveniently adjacent to the gas
meter.

The pipes run horizontally behind the kitchen units, through a wall to
the airing cupboard that houses both the cold tank and a hot water
cylinder beneath it. So the pipe runs are neat and efficient.

Behind the boiler is the pipe to the flu that runs through an outside
wall and can be seen at the front of the building.

The height inside the kitchen unit is 889/890 mm.

A British Gas salesman tested the cold water pressure (it looked pretty
fierce to me) and said, "you cannot have a Combi. Pressures too low".

His suggestion was to plonk a wall mounted unit on the opposite side of
the sink which clearly meant serious damage to the kitchen units and an
inefficient pipe run.

This is a two bedroom flat with a largish main room and the kitchen (316
cm x 300 cm).

My four bedroom house has a 110,000 BTU boiler, so I would guess the
flat would around 50,000 to 60,000 BTUs (Correct me if I am wrong).

Is there a floor standing boiler that could replace the Celsia?

The right answer must be worth a beer or three?

Get another firm round and see if they agree with BG.

Especially about the water pressure, although flow rate is usually more
important than static pressure. From your post I am guessing that BG may
have tested static pressure but that you estimated flow rate.

You can buy a water pressure meter quite cheaply if you want to test for
yourself and it is pretty straightforward to time how long it takes to
fill a container of known volume (such as B&Q orange buckets; ours have a
scale on the inside).


https://www.screwfix.com/p/rothenber...pressure-test-
gauge-10bar/53626

£20 and should, I think, fit onto the connector for a washing machine or
dishwasher. Adapters for other fittings are only a few pounds.

Cheers



Dave R


--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 10/02/2018 18:17, Pinnerite wrote:
This is tricky because I cannot supply full details but this is the tale (of
woe).

I really need some informed advice here.

My daughter and her family are waiting to move into a flat that was
previously my mother's. It has the original floor standing Celsia boiler,
inside a kitchen unit. It is conveniently adjacent to the gas meter.

The pipes run horizontally behind the kitchen units, through a wall to the
airing cupboard that houses both the cold tank and a hot water cylinder
beneath it. So the pipe runs are neat and efficient.

Behind the boiler is the pipe to the flu that runs through an outside wall
and can be seen at the front of the building.

The height inside the kitchen unit is 889/890 mm.

A British Gas salesman tested the cold water pressure (it looked pretty
fierce to me) and said, "you cannot have a Combi. Pressures too low".

His suggestion was to plonk a wall mounted unit on the opposite side of the
sink which clearly meant serious damage to the kitchen units and an
inefficient pipe run.

This is a two bedroom flat with a largish main room and the kitchen (316 cm
x 300 cm).

My four bedroom house has a 110,000 BTU boiler, so I would guess the flat
would around 50,000 to 60,000 BTUs (Correct me if I am wrong).

Is there a floor standing boiler that could replace the Celsia?

The right answer must be worth a beer or three?



I don't know - but does it really need to be floor standing? You can
mount a wall-hung boiler a few inches off the floor, so that it would
still fit in the cupboard currently occupied by the Celsia.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On 10/02/2018 18:45, David wrote:
On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 18:17:08 +0000, Pinnerite wrote:

This is tricky because I cannot supply full details but this is the tale
(of woe).

I really need some informed advice here.

My daughter and her family are waiting to move into a flat that was
previously my mother's. It has the original floor standing Celsia
boiler, inside a kitchen unit. It is conveniently adjacent to the gas
meter.

The pipes run horizontally behind the kitchen units, through a wall to
the airing cupboard that houses both the cold tank and a hot water
cylinder beneath it. So the pipe runs are neat and efficient.

Behind the boiler is the pipe to the flu that runs through an outside
wall and can be seen at the front of the building.

The height inside the kitchen unit is 889/890 mm.

A British Gas salesman tested the cold water pressure (it looked pretty
fierce to me) and said, "you cannot have a Combi. Pressures too low".

His suggestion was to plonk a wall mounted unit on the opposite side of
the sink which clearly meant serious damage to the kitchen units and an
inefficient pipe run.

This is a two bedroom flat with a largish main room and the kitchen (316
cm x 300 cm).

My four bedroom house has a 110,000 BTU boiler, so I would guess the
flat would around 50,000 to 60,000 BTUs (Correct me if I am wrong).

Is there a floor standing boiler that could replace the Celsia?

The right answer must be worth a beer or three?

Get another firm round and see if they agree with BG.

Especially about the water pressure, although flow rate is usually more
important than static pressure. From your post I am guessing that BG may
have tested static pressure but that you estimated flow rate.

You can buy a water pressure meter quite cheaply if you want to test for
yourself and it is pretty straightforward to time how long it takes to
fill a container of known volume (such as B&Q orange buckets; ours have a
scale on the inside).


https://www.screwfix.com/p/rothenber...pressure-test-
gauge-10bar/53626

£20 and should, I think, fit onto the connector for a washing machine or
dishwasher. Adapters for other fittings are only a few pounds.

Cheers



Dave R



Flow rate is as important as - if not more important than - static
pressure. The OP needs to measure the flow rate at the cold tap which is
nearest to where the mains enters the house. You can do that with a
bucket and a stop-watch.

Zero your bathroom scales with an empty bucket on them. Then hold the
bucket under the full flow of the tap for 27 seconds. Then weigh the
bucket again, so as to weigh the water you collected. The weight in
pounds is the same as the flow rate in litres per minute.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

I can't comment on the technical rights and wrongs of what you need or don't need but just make sure you don't get British Gas to do it or you'll pay a lot more than you need to!

A few years ago I got a quote from British Gas to replace my boiler and they quoted £3,500 - I said "I don't want all new radiators as well, just the boiler" and he said "that is just for the boiler"!!

This was at a time when a new boiler cost £800 from the supplier and fitting was £500 - which was what I subsequently paid to an independent installer.

On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 18:17:08 +0000, Pinnerite wrote:

The right answer must be worth a beer or three?

The right answer (seriously) is to ask someone other than a BG salesman.

Get two or three local independents in to take a look.

Our BG quote (sent because we inherited a BG contract with the house) was
for an undersized boiler at twice the price we eventually paid.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 18:17:08 +0000, Pinnerite wrote:

A British Gas salesman ...

Run, don't walk, away.

Ask around for a local tradesman and see if a name or two repeatedly
get positive recomendations (or negative...)

tested the cold water pressure (it looked pretty fierce to me) and said,
"you cannot have a Combi. Pressures too low".

Others have suggested doing your own flow and pressure tests, if the
pressure really is high you can get PRV's (Pressure Reducing Valves).
I think they limit both the static and dynamic pressures.

Presumably the boiler change is to free up a bit of space by getting
rid of the HW cylinder and header tank? Otherwise doesn't "if it
ain't broke, don't fix it" apply?

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article ,
Pinnerite wrote:
Is there a floor standing boiler that could replace the Celsia?

No reason why a wall mounted one can't be put in the place of a floor
standing one. That's exactly what I did here.

It may not suit a plumber, though. More bending down to install. So expect
excuses why it can't be done.

--
*Prepositions are not words to end sentences with *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 10/02/2018 18:17, Pinnerite wrote:
This is tricky because I cannot supply full details but this is the tale (of
woe).

I really need some informed advice here.

My daughter and her family are waiting to move into a flat that was
previously my mother's. It has the original floor standing Celsia boiler,
inside a kitchen unit. It is conveniently adjacent to the gas meter.

The pipes run horizontally behind the kitchen units, through a wall to the
airing cupboard that houses both the cold tank and a hot water cylinder
beneath it. So the pipe runs are neat and efficient.

Behind the boiler is the pipe to the flu that runs through an outside wall
and can be seen at the front of the building.

The height inside the kitchen unit is 889/890 mm.

A British Gas salesman tested the cold water pressure (it looked pretty
fierce to me) and said, "you cannot have a Combi. Pressures too low".

That does not really make much sense - unless he means flow rate too
low. (the mains pressure even if not that good is going to be higher
than anything you will get from a combined cylinder / cistern on the
same level as the main living space.

His suggestion was to plonk a wall mounted unit on the opposite side of the
sink which clearly meant serious damage to the kitchen units and an
inefficient pipe run.

You could probably stick a wall mounted boiler low down in the space
where the current one is.

The pipe run is less of an issue either way though - everything is fully
pumped, and usually a sealed system these days.


This is a two bedroom flat with a largish main room and the kitchen (316 cm
x 300 cm).

My four bedroom house has a 110,000 BTU boiler, so I would guess the flat
would around 50,000 to 60,000 BTUs (Correct me if I am wrong).

For just heating, its seems likely that a 10 to 15kW (~35,000 to 50,000
BTU/h) boiler will be more than adequate.

If you do go the combi route, the 24kW would be a minimum spec to get an
acceptable rate of hot water delivery. (24kW combi will do once decent
basic shower (i.e. nothing fancy with soaker heads and body jets), or
will fill a bath slowly.

Is there a floor standing boiler that could replace the Celsia?

Gas floor standers are rare these days, and tend to only be the larger
more powerful models. Not really suited to your application.





--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 10/02/2018 18:17, Pinnerite wrote:
This is tricky because I cannot supply full details but this is the tale (of
woe).

I really need some informed advice here.

My daughter and her family are waiting to move into a flat that was
previously my mother's. It has the original floor standing Celsia boiler,
inside a kitchen unit. It is conveniently adjacent to the gas meter.

The pipes run horizontally behind the kitchen units, through a wall to the
airing cupboard that houses both the cold tank and a hot water cylinder
beneath it. So the pipe runs are neat and efficient.

Behind the boiler is the pipe to the flu that runs through an outside wall
and can be seen at the front of the building.

The height inside the kitchen unit is 889/890 mm.

A British Gas salesman tested the cold water pressure (it looked pretty
fierce to me) and said, "you cannot have a Combi. Pressures too low".

His suggestion was to plonk a wall mounted unit on the opposite side of the
sink which clearly meant serious damage to the kitchen units and an
inefficient pipe run.

This is a two bedroom flat with a largish main room and the kitchen (316 cm
x 300 cm).

My four bedroom house has a 110,000 BTU boiler, so I would guess the flat
would around 50,000 to 60,000 BTUs (Correct me if I am wrong).

Is there a floor standing boiler that could replace the Celsia?

The right answer must be worth a beer or three?



No need to install a combi

--
Michael Chare

On Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 8:28:39 PM UTC, Roger Mills wrote:
On 10/02/2018 18:45, David wrote:
On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 18:17:08 +0000, Pinnerite wrote:

This is tricky because I cannot supply full details but this is the tale
(of woe).

I really need some informed advice here.

My daughter and her family are waiting to move into a flat that was
previously my mother's. It has the original floor standing Celsia
boiler, inside a kitchen unit. It is conveniently adjacent to the gas
meter.

The pipes run horizontally behind the kitchen units, through a wall to
the airing cupboard that houses both the cold tank and a hot water
cylinder beneath it. So the pipe runs are neat and efficient.

Behind the boiler is the pipe to the flu that runs through an outside
wall and can be seen at the front of the building.

The height inside the kitchen unit is 889/890 mm.

A British Gas salesman tested the cold water pressure (it looked pretty
fierce to me) and said, "you cannot have a Combi. Pressures too low".

His suggestion was to plonk a wall mounted unit on the opposite side of
the sink which clearly meant serious damage to the kitchen units and an
inefficient pipe run.

This is a two bedroom flat with a largish main room and the kitchen (316
cm x 300 cm).

My four bedroom house has a 110,000 BTU boiler, so I would guess the
flat would around 50,000 to 60,000 BTUs (Correct me if I am wrong).

Is there a floor standing boiler that could replace the Celsia?

The right answer must be worth a beer or three?

Get another firm round and see if they agree with BG.

Especially about the water pressure, although flow rate is usually more
important than static pressure. From your post I am guessing that BG may
have tested static pressure but that you estimated flow rate.

You can buy a water pressure meter quite cheaply if you want to test for
yourself and it is pretty straightforward to time how long it takes to
fill a container of known volume (such as B&Q orange buckets; ours have a
scale on the inside).


https://www.screwfix.com/p/rothenber...pressure-test-
gauge-10bar/53626

£20 and should, I think, fit onto the connector for a washing machine or
dishwasher. Adapters for other fittings are only a few pounds.

Cheers



Dave R



Flow rate is as important as - if not more important than - static
pressure. The OP needs to measure the flow rate at the cold tap which is
nearest to where the mains enters the house. You can do that with a
bucket and a stop-watch.

Zero your bathroom scales with an empty bucket on them. Then hold the
bucket under the full flow of the tap for 27 seconds. Then weigh the
bucket again, so as to weigh the water you collected. The weight in
pounds is the same as the flow rate in litres per minute.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

Pounds/litres? Doesn't sound right

On 11/02/18 00:14, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Pinnerite wrote:
Is there a floor standing boiler that could replace the Celsia?

No reason why a wall mounted one can't be put in the place of a floor
standing one. That's exactly what I did here.

It may not suit a plumber, though. More bending down to install. So expect
excuses why it can't be done.


Need to check the installation manual too - my WB requires 200mm
clearance underneath, so added to the unit height, that would probably
bee too high for the OP - but it's worth checking some other
manufacturers...

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
On 11/02/18 00:14, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Pinnerite wrote:
Is there a floor standing boiler that could replace the Celsia?

No reason why a wall mounted one can't be put in the place of a floor
standing one. That's exactly what I did here.

It may not suit a plumber, though. More bending down to install. So expect
excuses why it can't be done.


Need to check the installation manual too - my WB requires 200mm
clearance underneath, so added to the unit height, that would probably
bee too high for the OP - but it's worth checking some other
manufacturers...

My old floorstander was too tall to fit under a normal height worktop
anyway. So already had a custom housing. Which only needed slight
modification.

--
*With her marriage she got a new name and a dress.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 00:12:55 -0800, stuart noble wrote:

On Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 8:28:39 PM UTC, Roger Mills wrote:

====snip====

Flow rate is as important as - if not more important than - static
pressure. The OP needs to measure the flow rate at the cold tap which
is nearest to where the mains enters the house. You can do that with a
bucket and a stop-watch.

Zero your bathroom scales with an empty bucket on them. Then hold the
bucket under the full flow of the tap for 27 seconds. Then weigh the
bucket again, so as to weigh the water you collected. The weight in
pounds is the same as the flow rate in litres per minute.
--
Cheers,
Roger ____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

Pounds/litres? Doesn't sound right

Simples! A litre of water weighs 2.2 Lbs exactly. 60/27=22.22222 which
is a close enough approximation that the number of Lbs of water collected
in 27 seconds directly equates to a litres per minute flow rate.

You could, of course, collect a minute's worth of water (assuming a big
enough bucket) and weigh the amount collected in Kg to calculate a Litres
per minute flow rate. Alternatively, you could use a half or quarter
minute filling time if you don't have a big enough bucket to catch all of
the water flow and multiply up by two or four to calculate the per minute
flow rate.

Of course, if you have to use a shorter filling time for want of a large
enough bucket to cope with a high flow rate, you might as well use a 15
second fill time and multiply the weight in Kg (or the volume in litres)
by the required factor of four to get the Litres per minute flow rate
figure.

Alternatively, you could simply time how long it takes to fill a
collecting vessel of known capacity and translate your figures into a
litres per minute figure using whatever units of measurement are
convenient (fluid ounces, Lbs, gallons/cubic feet[1] or WHY).

Once you're into "Calculator Territory", you may as well knock yourself
out and calculate gallons or cubic feet per minute or litres per second
figures as well as the more common litre per minute figure. :-)

[1] A gallon of water weighs 10Lbs which is also a cubic foot of water.

--
Johnny B Good

On 11/02/2018 15:57, Johnny B Good wrote:


[1] A gallon of water weighs 10Lbs which is also a cubic foot of water.


You are kidding?
a cubic foot of water weights about 70lb.
About 7 gallons/ 28l.

In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
On 11/02/2018 15:57, Johnny B Good wrote:


[1] A gallon of water weighs 10Lbs which is also a cubic foot of water.


You are kidding?
a cubic foot of water weights about 70lb.
About 7 gallons/ 28l.

A UK pint is 20 fluid ounces so a pint of water weights a pound and a
quarter. A gallon is 8 pints, so a gallon weighs 10 pounds.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 11/02/2018 16:05, dennis@home wrote:
On 11/02/2018 15:57, Johnny B Good wrote:


[1] A gallon of water weighs 10Lbs which is also a cubic foot of water.


You are kidding?
a cubic foot of water weights about 70lb.
About 7 gallons/ 28l.

I wonder if US gallons have muddied the water. 1 cubic foot of water =
6.22 Imperial gallons or 7.48 US liquid gallons (and is 62.2 lbs either way)




--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Roger Mills wrote:
Flow rate is as important as - if not more important than - static
pressure. The OP needs to measure the flow rate at the cold tap which is
nearest to where the mains enters the house. You can do that with a
bucket and a stop-watch.

If that's figure's low, it's worth trying other taps (if you have other
taps fed from the mains). The flow rate from my kitchen tap is rubbish,
so I thought I wouldn't be able to install a combi, but checking the
bath tap it was fine - it's just that the tap itself in the kitchen
won't allow much flow.

Mike

On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 16:13:19 +0000, charles wrote:

In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
On 11/02/2018 15:57, Johnny B Good wrote:


[1] A gallon of water weighs 10Lbs which is also a cubic foot of
water.


You are kidding?
a cubic foot of water weights about 70lb.
About 7 gallons/ 28l.

A UK pint is 20 fluid ounces so a pint of water weights a pound and a
quarter. A gallon is 8 pints, so a gallon weighs 10 pounds.

My bad[1]. :-( I was getting myself confused between the 62.5 Lbs of
water to a cubic foot and the convenient fact that a gallon of water
happens to weigh 10 Lbs exactly which makes a cubic foot of water equal
to 6 1/4 imperial gallons. These are figures which *used* to be firmly
entrenched in my memory. Alas, no more it seems. :-(

Anyhow, the point still stands. If you can't use the "27 seconds fill
test" and are forced to use whatever filling vessel and units of measure
that come readily to hand to calculate the flow rate with a calculator,
you may as well knock yourself out and calculate gallons per minute or
second or even cubic feet per minute or hour or whatever other units take
your fancy whilst you're at it (obtaining a Litres per minute figure,
that is!). If you don't trust my freshly jogged memory on conversion
factors, you can always google the information for yourself, I didn't! :-)

[1] The only upside to this lapse is that it showed that at least three
of you were "paying attention". :-)

And, no, it wasn't a deliberate mistake I'm ashamed to have to admit. :-(

--
Johnny B Good

On 11/02/2018 17:04, Johnny B Good wrote:

[1] The only upside to this lapse is that it showed that at least three
of you were "paying attention". :-)

Indeed. Though I thought the law required in such circumstances the
conversion factors for firkins per fortnight too


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
On 11/02/2018 15:57, Johnny B Good wrote:


[1] A gallon of water weighs 10Lbs which is also a cubic foot of water.


You are kidding?
a cubic foot of water weights about 70lb.
About 7 gallons/ 28l.

No converter on your computer?

Cubic foot is 6.229 gallons. 28.32 litres.

--
*When blondes have more fun, do they know it?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 11/02/2018 18:59, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
On 11/02/2018 15:57, Johnny B Good wrote:


[1] A gallon of water weighs 10Lbs which is also a cubic foot of water.


You are kidding?
a cubic foot of water weights about 70lb.
About 7 gallons/ 28l.

No converter on your computer?

Cubic foot is 6.229 gallons. 28.32 litres.


No. but I did get the 28l correct.

On 10/02/2018 18:45, David wrote:
On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 18:17:08 +0000, Pinnerite wrote:


Get another firm round and see if they agree with BG.


+1. BG (especially the salesmen) have a pretty terrible reputation here.

On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 17:25:04 +0000, Robin wrote:

On 11/02/2018 17:04, Johnny B Good wrote:

[1] The only upside to this lapse is that it showed that at least three
of you were "paying attention". :-)

Indeed. Though I thought the law required in such circumstances the
conversion factors for firkins per fortnight too

Well, you're certainly welcome to do that but that would mean the rest
of us would have to grab hold of a calculator and look up the relevant
conversion factors to translate the result into the more familiar units
of litres per minute that are generally used in this News Group. :-)

Thinking about obscure/whimsical units of measurement, I wonder how many
foot pounds of torque there are in a Light Year pico-gramme? That was a
rhetorical question by the way. I'm not really expecting an answer. :-)

--
Johnny B Good

Andy Burns wrote:

Pinnerite wrote:

Is there a floor standing boiler that could replace the Celsia?

https://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/products/boilers/directory/greenstar-cdi-fs-regular

Seems OK size-wise, maybe overkill for a flat?

Maybe but it makes me less depressed. Thank you and everyone else for their
generous advice.

Regards, Alan


--
Mageia 5.1 for x86_64, Kernel:4.4.82-desktop-1.mga5
KDE version 4.14.5 on an AMD Phenom II X4 Black edition.

In article ,
newshound wrote:
On 10/02/2018 18:45, David wrote:
On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 18:17:08 +0000, Pinnerite wrote:


Get another firm round and see if they agree with BG.


+1. BG (especially the salesmen) have a pretty terrible reputation here.

round here they are very good at saying "you can't get the spares"

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

In article ,
Johnny B Good wrote:
On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 17:25:04 +0000, Robin wrote:

On 11/02/2018 17:04, Johnny B Good wrote:

[1] The only upside to this lapse is that it showed that at least three
of you were "paying attention". :-)

Indeed. Though I thought the law required in such circumstances the
conversion factors for firkins per fortnight too

Well, you're certainly welcome to do that but that would mean the rest
of us would have to grab hold of a calculator and look up the relevant
conversion factors to translate the result into the more familiar units
of litres per minute that are generally used in this News Group. :-)

Thinking about obscure/whimsical units of measurement, I wonder how many
foot pounds of torque there are in a Light Year pico-gramme? That was a
rhetorical question by the way. I'm not really expecting an answer. :-)

I can still remember that the dimensions of viscosity are
length squared/time. Comes from being told at university that you could
measure it in acres/year

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

After trying a couple of on-line quote systems, it looks like the Worcester
Greenstar FS 30 CDi will do the job. I'll chase up a few installers.

I notice that none of the Combi pushers ever mention that your airing
cupboard will just become cold shelf-space.

Alan


Andy Burns wrote:

Pinnerite wrote:

Is there a floor standing boiler that could replace the Celsia?

https://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/products/boilers/directory/greenstar-cdi-fs-regular

Seems OK size-wise, maybe overkill for a flat?
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Pinnerite wrote:

I notice that none of the Combi pushers ever mention that your airing
cupboard will just become cold shelf-space.

I suppose they could install a small radiator in there ...

On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 22:10:22 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

Pinnerite wrote:

I notice that none of the Combi pushers ever mention that your airing
cupboard will just become cold shelf-space.

I suppose they could install a small radiator in there ...

When I was a child, there was a massive cupboard under the stairs (well,
there were two, one tapering to zero height where we kept vacuum cleaner
etc).

But the big one was the height of the stairs at its highest point, and
had a standard door (so it was quite wide). That didn't have a boiler or
anything; no central heating and the hot water came from a big tank over
the bath with an immersion heater fitted from below (an electric-onlt
Fortic tank, I think).

So it had a low wattage heater in the bottom, like a 3 inch diameter pipe
the width of the cupboard.



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In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
I notice that none of the Combi pushers ever mention that your airing
cupboard will just become cold shelf-space.

I suppose they could install a small radiator in there ...

When I replaced my old cast iron boiler with a modern condensing one, I
hat to fit a rad in that room. Never needed one before.

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On 12/02/18 00:07, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
I notice that none of the Combi pushers ever mention that your airing
cupboard will just become cold shelf-space.

I suppose they could install a small radiator in there ...

When I replaced my old cast iron boiler with a modern condensing one, I
hat to fit a rad in that room. Never needed one before.


Our old Potterton cast iron was reckoned to have the output of a medium
radiator - like you, we had no rad in that room (kitchen) and it was
quite warm.

On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 22:08:34 +0000, Pinnerite wrote:

After trying a couple of on-line quote systems, it looks like the
Worcester Greenstar FS 30 CDi will do the job. I'll chase up a few
installers.

I notice that none of the Combi pushers ever mention that your airing
cupboard will just become cold shelf-space.
snip

One reason could be that we have our combi in the airing cupboard and the
vent out of the roof.

I don't think the boiler heats it as much as the old hot water cylinder
but it does avoid taking up wall or floor space elsewhere.

We specifically didn't want it in the kitchen (noise, using wall or
cupboard space) and there wasn't enough space in the bathroom.

In a previous property we had the combi in the loft for similar reasons.
This time we could have done the same, but the airing cupboard seemed to
work well and was more central to the pipe work.

Also in the previous property the airing cupboard was on the ground floor
in the centre of the house right next to the old BAxi back boiler, so not
a good site for a combi.

Cheers


Dave R




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Johnny B Good Wrote in message:
On Sun, 11 Feb 2018 00:12:55 -0800, stuart noble wrote:

On Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 8:28:39 PM UTC, Roger Mills wrote:

====snip====

Flow rate is as important as - if not more important than - static
pressure. The OP needs to measure the flow rate at the cold tap which
is nearest to where the mains enters the house. You can do that with a
bucket and a stop-watch.

Zero your bathroom scales with an empty bucket on them. Then hold the
bucket under the full flow of the tap for 27 seconds. Then weigh the
bucket again, so as to weigh the water you collected. The weight in
pounds is the same as the flow rate in litres per minute.
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checked.

Pounds/litres? Doesn't sound right

Simples! A litre of water weighs 2.2 Lbs exactly. 60/27=22.22222 which
is a close enough approximation that the number of Lbs of water collected
in 27 seconds directly equates to a litres per minute flow rate.

You could, of course, collect a minute's worth of water (assuming a big
enough bucket) and weigh the amount collected in Kg to calculate a Litres
per minute flow rate. Alternatively, you could use a half or quarter
minute filling time if you don't have a big enough bucket to catch all of
the water flow and multiply up by two or four to calculate the per minute
flow rate.

Of course, if you have to use a shorter filling time for want of a large
enough bucket to cope with a high flow rate, you might as well use a 15
second fill time and multiply the weight in Kg (or the volume in litres)
by the required factor of four to get the Litres per minute flow rate
figure.

Alternatively, you could simply time how long it takes to fill a
collecting vessel of known capacity and translate your figures into a
litres per minute figure using whatever units of measurement are
convenient (fluid ounces, Lbs, gallons/cubic feet[1] or WHY).

Once you're into "Calculator Territory", you may as well knock yourself
out and calculate gallons or cubic feet per minute or litres per second
figures as well as the more common litre per minute figure. :-)

[1] A gallon of water weighs 10Lbs which is also a cubic foot of water.


Phew.
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On 11/02/2018 08:12, stuart noble wrote:
On Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 8:28:39 PM UTC, Roger Mills wrote:


Flow rate is as important as - if not more important than - static
pressure. The OP needs to measure the flow rate at the cold tap which is
nearest to where the mains enters the house. You can do that with a
bucket and a stop-watch.

Zero your bathroom scales with an empty bucket on them. Then hold the
bucket under the full flow of the tap for 27 seconds. Then weigh the
bucket again, so as to weigh the water you collected. The weight in
pounds is the same as the flow rate in litres per minute.
--
Cheers,
Roger


Pounds/litres? Doesn't sound right

It does if you're bilingual!

A litre of water weighs 1Kg - which is 2.2 lbs

1 minute (60 seconds) divided by 2.2 is 27 seconds.

Therefore lbs per 27 seconds is the same as litres (Kg) per minute.

QED
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

Pinnerite wrote:

After trying a couple of on-line quote systems, it looks like the Worcester
Greenstar FS 30 CDi will do the job. I'll chase up a few installers.

I notice that none of the Combi pushers ever mention that your airing
cupboard will just become cold shelf-space.

Considerably more shelf space, however.

Andy Burns wrote:

Pinnerite wrote:

Is there a floor standing boiler that could replace the Celsia?

https://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/pr...ory/greenstar-
cdi-fs-regular

Seems OK size-wise, maybe overkill for a flat?


--

Roger Hayter