Does retrofitting mcbs into an older wylex "fuse wire" consumer
unit need notification?
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 29/01/2018 13:05, jim wrote:

Does retrofitting mcbs into an older wylex "fuse wire" consumer
unit need notification?

The plug in ones don't have the same breaking capacity as te fuse wire
so you may need to check they are OK.

But why bother? I haven't had a fuse wire go in 30 years so fitting MCBs
would be a waste of time IMO.

"dennis@home" Wrote in message:
On 29/01/2018 13:05, jim wrote:

Does retrofitting mcbs into an older wylex "fuse wire" consumer
unit need notification?

The plug in ones don't have the same breaking capacity as te fuse wire
so you may need to check they are OK.


Erm eh?

But why bother? I haven't had a fuse wire go in 30 years so fitting MCBs
would be a waste of time IMO.

Elderly (tight) rellies can't fit occasional fusewires into old
carriers.

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

In article ,
jim k wrote:

unit need notification?

Notifying just who?

--
*You know you're a redneck if your home has wheels and your car doesn't.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

jim wrote:

Elderly (tight) rellies can't fit occasional fusewires into old
carriers.

Maybe provide them with some replacement fuse carriers, ready to swap?

But really, what is the underlying reason for fuses blowing sufficently
often to be a problem?

On 29/01/2018 14:38, jim wrote:
"dennis@home" Wrote in message:
On 29/01/2018 13:05, jim wrote:

Does retrofitting mcbs into an older wylex "fuse wire" consumer
unit need notification?

The plug in ones don't have the same breaking capacity as te fuse wire
so you may need to check they are OK.

The plug in MCBs (if that's what you are using) can't cope with as much
fault current as the more common MCBs or fuse wire.



Erm eh?

But why bother? I haven't had a fuse wire go in 30 years so fitting MCBs
would be a waste of time IMO.

Elderly (tight) rellies can't fit occasional fusewires into old
carriers.


If they are having fuses blow then maybe the circuits need fixing rather
than making them easier to reset without fixing them. I can't see why
they would blow for decades.

On 29/01/2018 14:48, dennis@home wrote:

If they are having fuses blow then maybe the circuits need fixing rather
than making them easier to reset without fixing them. I can't see why
they would blow for decades.

Our lighting trips occasionally just from a bulb blowing.

On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 14:07:21 +0000, dennis@home wrote:

On 29/01/2018 13:05, jim wrote:

Does retrofitting mcbs into an older wylex "fuse wire" consumer
unit need notification?

The plug in ones don't have the same breaking capacity as te fuse wire
so you may need to check they are OK.

But why bother? I haven't had a fuse wire go in 30 years so fitting MCBs
would be a waste of time IMO.

+1

--
Johnny B Good

Well, when we had our house redon in the 70s, we moved the retro fitted
circuit breakers into the new unit, since the pitch of the blades was
identical.
I have had breakers go, so am glad its not fuses now I am blind.

The most common one to go is a lighting circuit, when either an old
fashioned filament bulb goes short or a meltdown occurs in the psu of a plug
in replacement low energy.
I had to laugh though at one point as I bought a very early cfl bulb from
B/Q and put it into the hall. Went out leaving it on. Came back to darkness
and the tube on the carpet, still intact and the power supply/bayonet bit
looking decidedly melted with two wirees sticking out of it. The cut out
had indeed tripped and no real harm done. I took it back and they had
already got a big cardboard box full of similarly melted items. They gave me
an Ozram pair of bulbs for the trouble. I bet whoever made those got a
decent sized rocket up their posterior
Brian.


--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 29/01/2018 13:05, jim wrote:

Does retrofitting mcbs into an older wylex "fuse wire" consumer
unit need notification?

The plug in ones don't have the same breaking capacity as te fuse wire so
you may need to check they are OK.

But why bother? I haven't had a fuse wire go in 30 years so fitting MCBs
would be a waste of time IMO.

GB wrote:
On 29/01/2018 14:48, dennis@home wrote:

If they are having fuses blow then maybe the circuits need fixing rather
than making them easier to reset without fixing them. I can't see why
they would blow for decades.

Our lighting trips occasionally just from a bulb blowing.

One of the (few) advantages of wired fuses in a consumer unit, they
rarely blow when a lamp dies.

--
Chris Green
·

On 29/01/2018 13:05, jim wrote:

Does retrofitting mcbs into an older wylex "fuse wire" consumer
unit need notification?
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Strictly speaking by replacing the fuses with mcb's you could be deemed
to be making changes to the consumer unit and its protective devices
which would require notification to building control.

It may depend on where the property is e.g Scotland but for England and
Wales a call to your local authority building control department would
conrirm if notification is required.

Alternatively unless you already have the mcb's it may be worth gtting
an estimate for the fitting from a local approved sparkie, it's only a
five minute job.

Bear in mind mcb's often trip when lamps blow so access to the 'fuse
box' may be needed more frequently.

On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 14:48:18 +0000, dennis@home wrote:

On 29/01/2018 14:38, jim wrote:
"dennis@home" Wrote in message:
On 29/01/2018 13:05, jim wrote:

Does retrofitting mcbs into an older wylex "fuse wire" consumer
unit need notification?

The plug in ones don't have the same breaking capacity as te fuse wire
so you may need to check they are OK.

The plug in MCBs (if that's what you are using) can't cope with as much
fault current as the more common MCBs or fuse wire.

Utter ********.
Typical 'old style' Wylex plug in BS3871 breakers have a fault capacity
of 3000A. Typical plug in open wired fuses are 1000A, or 2000A for larger
ones.

If they are having fuses blow then maybe the circuits need fixing rather
than making them easier to reset without fixing them. I can't see why
they would blow for decades.

True.

In article ,
Ash Burton wrote:
Strictly speaking by replacing the fuses with mcb's you could be deemed
to be making changes to the consumer unit and its protective devices
which would require notification to building control.

It may depend on where the property is e.g Scotland but for England and
Wales a call to your local authority building control department would
conrirm if notification is required.

Alternatively unless you already have the mcb's it may be worth gtting
an estimate for the fitting from a local approved sparkie, it's only a
five minute job.

I'd suggest you contact your local council and ask for the records which
show whether you have MCBs or fuses.

--
*My wife has a slight impediment in her speech. She stops to breathe.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Andy Burns Wrote in message:
jim wrote:

Elderly (tight) rellies can't fit occasional fusewires into old
carriers.

Maybe provide them with some replacement fuse carriers, ready to swap?

That's a thought.


But really, what is the underlying reason for fuses blowing sufficently
often to be a problem?


I never said they did.

Last one was a bulb blowing that took 1/2 their lights out for a
few days despite "having a go" at rewiring the wylex fuse carrier
in question. They didn't have enough dexterity nor eyesight to
complete the task effectively.

Eg Could the use of wrong fusewire be more dangerous than a
replacement MCB?

The costs of calling an electrician to rewire a fuse would appear
to be not a thousand miles away from the costs of the
MCBs.

(and heaven forfend they fall victim to a minority rogue sparky
who will tell them they "must" upgrade at ££££).

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 14:48:18 +0000, dennis@home wrote:

On 29/01/2018 14:38, jim wrote:
"dennis@home" Wrote in message:
On 29/01/2018 13:05, jim wrote:

Does retrofitting mcbs into an older wylex "fuse wire" consumer
unit need notification?

The plug in ones don't have the same breaking capacity as te fuse wire
so you may need to check they are OK.

The plug in MCBs (if that's what you are using) can't cope with as much
fault current as the more common MCBs or fuse wire.



Erm eh?

But why bother? I haven't had a fuse wire go in 30 years so fitting
MCBs would be a waste of time IMO.

Elderly (tight) rellies can't fit occasional fusewires into old
carriers.


If they are having fuses blow then maybe the circuits need fixing rather
than making them easier to reset without fixing them. I can't see why
they would blow for decades.

+1

In 35 years, I've only ever had to replace/rewire a blown fuse just the
once (I keep spare fuses handy to the CU[1]). Even so, this was due to my
being less than scrupulously careful when packing the wires into a metal
back box after rewiring a single outlet socket. I'd managed to trap one
(possibly both) live wire(s) which caused a framing fault on the ground
floor ring main circuit a day or two later. A quick check of the sockets
I'd been working on revealed the fault soon enough for me to fix my
mistake and restore the ring main back into service ever since then.

[1] It's well worth "The Expense" of keeping a set of spare rewireable
fuses handy to the CU to remove any sense of urgency which might lead to
mistakes in rewiring a fuse with the wrong gauge of fusewire (especially
true in the case of a blown lighting circuit repair using torchlight to
see what you're doing).

This provides almost as much "convenience" as resetting a circuit
breaker when dealing with a 'nuisance fault' but not so much convenience
as to make it all too easy to avoid "Doing the right thing by tracking
down the cause" and dealing with the actual fault in a timely manner.

With circuit breakers, there's always the temptation to keep resetting
the breaker to deal with the symptom until either the fault gets to the
point it can no longer be ignored or the circuit breaker itself fails
with the contacts welded shut.

A spare fuse gives you a one shot chance at clearing a 'nuisance fault'
and the chance to rewire the blown fuse at your leisure to provide
another shot at clearing the next nuisance fault that might arise hours
to days later. In the case of a persistent 'nuisance fault', you'll get
fed up with rewiring fuses far sooner than resetting a circuit breaker
which will result in the cause being investigated and repaired sooner
rather than later which is no bad thing.

Quite frankly imo, the use of MCBs in a domestic setting has always
looked like "A solution in search of a problem". ELCBs/RCBOs less so
since they bring earth leakage protection against the risk of
electrocution to the table. I see no benefit in replacing plug in fuses
with plug in MCBs in a domestic CU since they offer no greater protection
than a fuse, only the convenience of making a potentially hazardous
circuit live once more.

--
Johnny B Good

In article ,
"dennis@home" writes:
On 29/01/2018 13:05, jim wrote:

Does retrofitting mcbs into an older wylex "fuse wire" consumer
unit need notification?

The plug in ones don't have the same breaking capacity as te fuse wire
so you may need to check they are OK.

The original push-button plugin ones are 1kA breaking capacity,
which is the same as the Wylex BS 3036 rewirable fuse carriers.

The newer toggle plugin ones are 3kA breaking capacity.

So this isn't an issue, although if you get a new consumer unit
which takes only MCB's, they will probably be 6kA breaking capacity
(or 10kA for an industrial one).

However, a 100A (or lower) main cutout, if it's an HRC cartidge
fuse, increases the effective breaking capacity of the fuses
(and MCBs) so this isn't generally a significant issue.

But why bother? I haven't had a fuse wire go in 30 years so fitting MCBs
would be a waste of time IMO.

The Wylex BS 3036 rewirable fuses don't provide sufficient
protection for most ring circuits, when you've applied the
derating factor to the cable for using them.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 14:45:25 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

jim wrote:

Elderly (tight) rellies can't fit occasional fusewires into old
carriers.

Maybe provide them with some replacement fuse carriers, ready to swap?

But really, what is the underlying reason for fuses blowing sufficently
often to be a problem?

The more likely cause for 'nuisance events' on ring main circuits is
overloading, typically too many heaters plugged in and switched on at
full power whilst switching on an electric kettle and/or toaster or else
a really sucky vacuum cleaner plugged into the same ring main being
switched on.

Nuisance events on the ring main circuit cabling itself are likely to be
improperly fixed sockets or crushed cabling effected by the occupants
walking about on suspended flooring which could transmit forces into
damaged cabling or badly terminated joint boxes otherwise most such
permanent wiring problems result in a permanent fault condition which
will immediately blow any replacement fuses every time.

Lighting circuits can also produce 'nuisance events' from damaged
cabling or fittings as well as from overloading (too many 100W quartz
halogen lamps for example - an extremely unlikely scenario these days).

The good old fashioned fuse has proven to offer quite sufficient
protection against the fire hazard of overloaded power and lighting
circuit cabling over the past 80 odd years or so. Indeed, replacing a
fuse with an MCB in an older CU fusebox has nothing to recommend it other
than the convenience of making potentially hazardous circuits live at the
flick of a switch.

The only "Upgrade" to the humble fuse that is worth having is the type
of circuit breaker than provides earth leakage detection which can
minimise the risk of electrocution as well as provide earth protection
where the earthing point impedance can't be made low enough to guarantee
protection by a humble fuse.

Other than for the questionable convenience of being able to swiftly
restore a potentially unsafe circuit at the flick of a switch, the MCB
introduces an additional level of complexity to the protective function
it is intended to mimic of the humble fuse, thereby compromising said
function.

The humble fuse offers the most reliability simply on account of its
reliance on the *unreliability* of a short piece of fusewire to carry an
overload current for any significant length of time. The classic fuse is
the most extreme demonstration of the KISS principle in operation.

The only way that a correctly wired fuse can fail to protect a circuit
from overload that I can imagine is if your basement located Wylex CU
happens to become immersed in liquid Nitrogen due to a spill from a
Liquid Nitrogen Tanker that has crashed into your front garden. An
extremely unlikely event, I think most of us would agree, where an
electrical fire might be considered a mitigation against the extreme cold
such an event would introduce into the house. :-)

--
Johnny B Good

In article ,
jim k wrote:
Andy Burns Wrote in message:
jim wrote:

Elderly (tight) rellies can't fit occasional fusewires into old
carriers.

Maybe provide them with some replacement fuse carriers, ready to swap?

That's a thought.


But really, what is the underlying reason for fuses blowing sufficently
often to be a problem?


I never said they did.

Last one was a bulb blowing that took 1/2 their lights out for a
few days despite "having a go" at rewiring the wylex fuse carrier
in question. They didn't have enough dexterity nor eyesight to
complete the task effectively.

Eg Could the use of wrong fusewire be more dangerous than a
replacement MCB?

when I had a "fused" electrical supply, I followed my father's advice and
acquired some spare fuse carriers and kept them ready for use. You can
then rewire the blown fuse at a time when all then lights are on.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

on 29/01/2018, Johnny B Good supposed :
Quite frankly imo, the use of MCBs in a domestic setting has always
looked like "A solution in search of a problem". ELCBs/RCBOs less so
since they bring earth leakage protection against the risk of
electrocution to the table. I see no benefit in replacing plug in fuses
with plug in MCBs in a domestic CU since they offer no greater protection
than a fuse, only the convenience of making a potentially hazardous
circuit live once more.

Well, why bother with cars, when a horse and cart worked so well for
millenia?

On 29/01/2018 16:55, jim wrote:
Andy Burns Wrote in message:
jim wrote:

Elderly (tight) rellies can't fit occasional fusewires into old
carriers.

Maybe provide them with some replacement fuse carriers, ready to swap?

That's a thought.


But really, what is the underlying reason for fuses blowing sufficently
often to be a problem?


I never said they did.

Last one was a bulb blowing that took 1/2 their lights out for a
few days despite "having a go" at rewiring the wylex fuse carrier
in question. They didn't have enough dexterity nor eyesight to
complete the task effectively.

Eg Could the use of wrong fusewire be more dangerous than a
replacement MCB?

The costs of calling an electrician to rewire a fuse would appear
to be not a thousand miles away from the costs of the
MCBs.

(and heaven forfend they fall victim to a minority rogue sparky
who will tell them they "must" upgrade at ££££).



Fuse wire does age. So presumably the new wire you fitted should be good
for another 50 years unless there is an actual fault.

I would say that in this case swapping the fuses for MCBs probably makes
sense - although the MCB will trip more often than a fuse when a lamp fails.



--


Adam

On 29/01/2018 14:43, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
jim k wrote:

unit need notification?

Notifying just who?



Probably the Prat P police.

Well the MCBs were already there....




--


Adam

In 35 years, I've only ever had to replace/rewire a blown fuse just the
once (I keep spare fuses handy to the CU[1]). Even so, this was due to my
being less than scrupulously careful when packing the wires into a metal
back box after rewiring a single outlet socket. I'd managed to trap one
(possibly both) live wire(s) which caused a framing fault on the ground
floor ring main circuit a day or two later. A quick check of the sockets
I'd been working on revealed the fault soon enough for me to fix my
mistake and restore the ring main back into service ever since then.

[1] It's well worth "The Expense" of keeping a set of spare rewireable
fuses handy to the CU to remove any sense of urgency which might lead to
mistakes in rewiring a fuse with the wrong gauge of fusewire (especially
true in the case of a blown lighting circuit repair using torchlight to
see what you're doing).

This provides almost as much "convenience" as resetting a circuit
breaker when dealing with a 'nuisance fault' but not so much convenience
as to make it all too easy to avoid "Doing the right thing by tracking
down the cause" and dealing with the actual fault in a timely manner.

With circuit breakers, there's always the temptation to keep resetting
the breaker to deal with the symptom until either the fault gets to the
point it can no longer be ignored or the circuit breaker itself fails
with the contacts welded shut.

A spare fuse gives you a one shot chance at clearing a 'nuisance fault'
and the chance to rewire the blown fuse at your leisure to provide
another shot at clearing the next nuisance fault that might arise hours
to days later. In the case of a persistent 'nuisance fault', you'll get
fed up with rewiring fuses far sooner than resetting a circuit breaker
which will result in the cause being investigated and repaired sooner
rather than later which is no bad thing.

Quite frankly imo, the use of MCBs in a domestic setting has always
looked like "A solution in search of a problem". ELCBs/RCBOs less so
since they bring earth leakage protection against the risk of
electrocution to the table. I see no benefit in replacing plug in fuses
with plug in MCBs in a domestic CU since they offer no greater protection
than a fuse, only the convenience of making a potentially hazardous
circuit live once more.

You make an interesting point about making a recurring fault more
likely to be referred to a qualified person, but on balance I have to
disagree with you.

Rewirable fuses should be regarded as a legacy item in domestic CUs
(as indeed they are).

The general public-at-large just does not have the skill to wire a
fuse correctly, they will route the wire incorrectly, use the wrong
gauge of wire, use any old piece of wire.

With today's culture of moulded-on plugs and "No user serviceable
parts inside", I sometimes think electricity is more of a mystery to
the layman than his Edwardian forebearers

--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

ARW Wrote in message:
On 29/01/2018 16:55, jim wrote:
Andy Burns Wrote in message:
jim wrote:

Elderly (tight) rellies can't fit occasional fusewires into old
carriers.

Maybe provide them with some replacement fuse carriers, ready to swap?

That's a thought.


But really, what is the underlying reason for fuses blowing sufficently
often to be a problem?


I never said they did.

Last one was a bulb blowing that took 1/2 their lights out for a
few days despite "having a go" at rewiring the wylex fuse carrier
in question. They didn't have enough dexterity nor eyesight to
complete the task effectively.

Eg Could the use of wrong fusewire be more dangerous than a
replacement MCB?

The costs of calling an electrician to rewire a fuse would appear
to be not a thousand miles away from the costs of the
MCBs.

(and heaven forfend they fall victim to a minority rogue sparky
who will tell them they "must" upgrade at ££££).



Fuse wire does age. So presumably the new wire you fitted should be good
for another 50 years unless there is an actual fault.

I would say that in this case swapping the fuses for MCBs probably makes
sense - although the MCB will trip more often than a fuse when a lamp fails.


Noted ta.

So quasi-legally is this notifiable work?

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 29/01/2018 13:05, jim wrote:

Does retrofitting mcbs into an older wylex "fuse wire" consumer
unit need notification?

No.

You are not replacing the CU or adding a new circuit.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 29/01/2018 14:48, dennis@home wrote:
On 29/01/2018 14:38, jim wrote:
"dennis@home" Wrote in message:
On 29/01/2018 13:05, jim wrote:

Does retrofitting mcbs into an older wylex "fuse wire" consumer
unit need notification?

The plug in ones don't have the same breaking capacity as te fuse wire
so you may need to check they are OK.

The plug in MCBs (if that's what you are using) can't cope with as much
fault current as the more common MCBs or fuse wire.

The first bit of that is true, but the second bit is questionable...

Modern MCBs can typically safely interrupt fault currents of up to 6kA.
The plug in wylex style MCBs only 3kA.

The BS3036 re-wireable fuse carriers had typically one of three ratings
S1A, S2A, and S4A. These could interrupt 1, 2, and 4kA respectively.

The common type that most will recognise:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...fuse_225-6.jpg

were I believe a S2A rated carrier - so swapping one for a 3kA rated MCB
is unlikely to be an issue in most cases unless the pre-existing fuses
were not actually suited to the installation anyway.

If however you are comparing the plug in MCB with a cartridge fuse
carrier, then there may well be a reduction in the maximum rupture
capacity.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 29/01/2018 17:21, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"dennis@home" writes:

But why bother? I haven't had a fuse wire go in 30 years so fitting MCBs
would be a waste of time IMO.

Depends on how many GU10 mains halogens there are... they can often take
out a 5A wylex BS3036 re-wireable on failure.

The Wylex BS 3036 rewirable fuses don't provide sufficient
protection for most ring circuits, when you've applied the
derating factor to the cable for using them.

Certainly true for rings wired in old T&E with a 1.0mm^2 earth if there
are any spurs on the ring.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 18:52:49 +0000, Graham. wrote:

====snip unattributed quote===


You make an interesting point about making a recurring fault more likely
to be referred to a qualified person, but on balance I have to disagree
with you.

Rewirable fuses should be regarded as a legacy item in domestic CUs (as
indeed they are).

No argument there. However, "Legacy" doesn't always equate to 'unfit for
purpose'. :-)


The general public-at-large just does not have the skill to wire a fuse
correctly, they will route the wire incorrectly, use the wrong gauge of
wire, use any old piece of wire.

Yes, sadly (but no longer surprising in my rather long experience of
others' ignorance of basic physics), that's all too often the truth of
the matter. Fortunately, those who lack such fundamental knowledge will
employ those who have been trained[1] to install a modern electrical
wiring system complete with a nice shiny new CU blessed with ELCBs[2]
when moving into an older property that's been blessed by such legacy
fixtures and fittings.


With today's culture of moulded-on plugs and "No user serviceable parts
inside", I sometimes think electricity is more of a mystery to the
layman than his Edwardian forebears.

[1] I'm not surprised that you should think so. Even those 'trained' in
the 'modern' art of 'electrics', installing domestic electrical systems,
are often little more knowledgeable about the fundamentals of electricity
than their Edwardian forebears, relying almost entirely on a set of
regulatory requirements learnt by rote.

[2] Such modern replacements for the 'legacy' Wylex CU fusebox rather
neatly solves the one major weakness of such legacy kit by eliminating
the opportunity for end user sabotage whether due to ignorance or just
plain wilfulness which far outweighs the risk of fatal failure of a
circuit breaker thus making such rare failures a real but more acceptable
risk.

If we could discount end user sabotage, then a fuse would offer an
almost zero risk of 'failure to protect' compared to that of a circuit
breaker. Since we can't discount end user sabotage, the circuit breaker
wins out in terms of its overall safety risk. Furthermore, since modern
CUs are equipped with ELCBs rather than basic circuit breakers, the
overall risk of loss of life is even lower than what a correctly rated
fuse can provide, even after allowing for the minuscule risk of fatal
failure of said ELCBs.

--
Johnny B Good

Ash Burton wrote:

On 29/01/2018 13:05, jim wrote:

Does retrofitting mcbs into an older wylex "fuse wire" consumer
unit need notification?
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Strictly speaking by replacing the fuses with mcb's you could be deemed
to be making changes to the consumer unit and its protective devices
which would require notification to building control.

It may depend on where the property is e.g Scotland but for England and
Wales a call to your local authority building control department would
conrirm if notification is required.

Alternatively unless you already have the mcb's it may be worth gtting
an estimate for the fitting from a local approved sparkie, it's only a
five minute job.

Bear in mind mcb's often trip when lamps blow so access to the 'fuse
box' may be needed more frequently.

My electrician, who may be a bit of a literalist, said that if he were
to make any modification to my installation (other than what he did,
which was to wire an additional consumer unit directly from the terminal
blocks connected to the meter) then he would have to test every part of
it, to ensure that it was safe. Apart from the inordinate amount of
time this would have taken, a few minor alterations would have been
necessary. This would have taken somewhat more than five minutes.
Especially putting sleeving on about half the earth wires in the house.

--

Roger Hayter

On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 23:54:20 +0000, Roger Hayter wrote:

My electrician, who may be a bit of a literalist, said that if he were
to make any modification to my installation (other than what he did,
which was to wire an additional consumer unit directly from the terminal
blocks connected to the meter) then he would have to test every part of
it, to ensure that it was safe. Apart from the inordinate amount of
time this would have taken, a few minor alterations would have been
necessary. This would have taken somewhat more than five minutes.
Especially putting sleeving on about half the earth wires in the house.

He is wrong.
New work has to comply with current standards. The bonding and earthing
must be checked too to ensure they comply. If the houseowner doesnt want
an undersized (say) earth cable replacing while you fit a shower, then
there is nothing you can do, you just note on the installation
certificate that 'customer did not allow upgrading of earthing, which is
undersized original'.
That is the electricians bit done.

As for new push in CBs in a rewirable fusebox, I would say no Part P
notification, as it isnt a new circuit, it is an amendment of an existing
circuit.

On 29/01/2018 16:51, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Ash Burton wrote:
Strictly speaking by replacing the fuses with mcb's you could be deemed
to be making changes to the consumer unit and its protective devices
which would require notification to building control.

It may depend on where the property is e.g Scotland but for England and
Wales a call to your local authority building control department would
conrirm if notification is required.

Alternatively unless you already have the mcb's it may be worth gtting
an estimate for the fitting from a local approved sparkie, it's only a
five minute job.

I'd suggest you contact your local council and ask for the records which
show whether you have MCBs or fuses.


What records would they be?

On 30/01/2018 08:48, dennis@home wrote:
On 29/01/2018 16:51, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Ash Burton wrote:
Strictly speaking by replacing the fuses with mcb's you could be deemed
to be making changes to the consumer unit and its protective devices
which would require notification to building control.

It may depend on where the property is e.g Scotland but for England and
Wales a call to your local authority building control department would
conrirm if notification is required.

Alternatively unless you already have the mcb's it may be worth gtting
an estimate for the fitting from a local approved sparkie, it's only a
five minute job.

I'd suggest you contact your local council and ask for the records which
show whether you have MCBs or fuses.


What records would they be?

I think you missed the sarcasm flag ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

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In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
On 29/01/2018 16:51, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Ash Burton wrote:
Strictly speaking by replacing the fuses with mcb's you could be
deemed to be making changes to the consumer unit and its protective
devices which would require notification to building control.

It may depend on where the property is e.g Scotland but for England
and Wales a call to your local authority building control department
would conrirm if notification is required.

Alternatively unless you already have the mcb's it may be worth
gtting an estimate for the fitting from a local approved sparkie,
it's only a five minute job.

I'd suggest you contact your local council and ask for the records
which show whether you have MCBs or fuses.


What records would they be?

Quite. ;-)

--
*Proofread carefully to see if you any words out or mispeld something *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 29/01/2018 18:47, jim wrote:

Noted ta.

So quasi-legally is this notifiable work?


I would say non notifiable.

At work we are slowly swapping a lot of Health Centres socket circuits
MCBs to RCBOs and all they get is a minor works certificate for each
swap and no Part P notification. It is worth noting that we have only
just done a full EICR on the installation and the only test we do for
the minor works certificate are the RCD trip times. It had been accepted
by their management that the other EICR results from the week or so
before still stand.

If I was asked to swap fuses for MCBs on an unknown fuse box I would at
least check for continuity on the ring circuits. If I found an open
circuit on LN or E I would still swap the fuse but only for a 20A MCB
and say that further investigation is required. And yes that
investigation is going to cost:-).


--


Adam

On 29/01/2018 15:58, Brian Gaff wrote:
I have had breakers go, so am glad its not fuses now I am blind.

The most common one to go is a lighting circuit,

Err, how do you know ?? Just wondering.

On 31/01/2018 14:19, Andrew wrote:
On 29/01/2018 15:58, Brian Gaff wrote:
I have had breakers go, so am glad its not fuses now I am blind.

The most common one to go is a lighting circuit,

Err, how do you know ?? Just wondering.

I thought that Brian still has some visual abilities, ie the ability to
tell if it is daylight.

--
Adam