Hello all,

Without going into (much) detail, my ground-floor flat in 1970s brick-walled self-contained block, had damp in one corner of a room. With the assent of maintenance company, I had some work carried out (Sika injection) on the external and internal walls. Currently I am not sure 1) if the wall if "drying out", 2) whether the work done was irrelevant or 3) (sleepless night scenario) the work done has made the problem permanently worse, since damp has re-emerged internal on one (very rainy) day.

My question is: what "rights" do I have to have the roof inspected and can the freeholder / maintenance company refuse access for inspection?

I am trying to locate a competent, impartial, experienced building inspector / surveyor in North London to advise on any recommended further actions. I am in discussion with one surveyor as how to proceed.

Is there a specialist building / damp or legal forum I could go to for advice before I start paying large amounts in professional fees? I accept the information I gain through forums may be ill-informed opinion but I am hoping someone who reads this can give me advice based on knowledge or personal experience - or at least point me in the right direction as to where to get help.

My current issue is that the parties concerned have different positions on how to proceed

1) The builder wants access to the roof to inspect the coping stones at the top of the parapet as he feels that could be the source of water ingress. Ok, if that is true, how come the damp is not experienced by the top floor flats? I have asked the occupants of the top floor flats - I have only established contact with one flat owner at the moment - if they experience damp, and they say no. I have left my phone number at all flats asking for any information on symptoms of damp. Those I have spoken to say the have temporary condensation issues fixed by opening windows.

2) The building manager will not permit my builder access to the roof citing insurance concerns/ restrictions. I understand this concern.

3) I have had a phone conversation and sent an email with some attached photographs of the problem to a local building surveyor. I have asked the surveyor for his fees.

My great concern is the work I have had done has actually made the problem worse and is irreversible. My more immediate concern is if I pay for a survey (one could argue it is the collective responsibility of the block for such issues to be investigated - but I just want the problem understood and fixed) without access to the roof any survey might not locate the probably / possible source of the problem.

Any suggestions on how I can proceed?

Clive

On Wednesday, 27 December 2017 07:58:32 UTC, wrote:
Hello all,

Without going into (much) detail, my ground-floor flat in 1970s brick-walled self-contained block, had damp in one corner of a room. With the assent of maintenance company, I had some work carried out (Sika injection) on the external and internal walls. Currently I am not sure 1) if the wall if "drying out", 2) whether the work done was irrelevant or 3) (sleepless night scenario) the work done has made the problem permanently worse, since damp has re-emerged internal on one (very rainy) day.

My question is: what "rights" do I have to have the roof inspected and can the freeholder / maintenance company refuse access for inspection?

I am trying to locate a competent, impartial, experienced building inspector / surveyor in North London to advise on any recommended further actions.. I am in discussion with one surveyor as how to proceed.

Is there a specialist building / damp or legal forum I could go to for advice before I start paying large amounts in professional fees? I accept the information I gain through forums may be ill-informed opinion but I am hoping someone who reads this can give me advice based on knowledge or personal experience - or at least point me in the right direction as to where to get help.

My current issue is that the parties concerned have different positions on how to proceed

1) The builder wants access to the roof to inspect the coping stones at the top of the parapet as he feels that could be the source of water ingress.. Ok, if that is true, how come the damp is not experienced by the top floor flats? I have asked the occupants of the top floor flats - I have only established contact with one flat owner at the moment - if they experience damp, and they say no. I have left my phone number at all flats asking for any information on symptoms of damp. Those I have spoken to say the have temporary condensation issues fixed by opening windows.

2) The building manager will not permit my builder access to the roof citing insurance concerns/ restrictions. I understand this concern.

3) I have had a phone conversation and sent an email with some attached photographs of the problem to a local building surveyor. I have asked the surveyor for his fees.

My great concern is the work I have had done has actually made the problem worse and is irreversible. My more immediate concern is if I pay for a survey (one could argue it is the collective responsibility of the block for such issues to be investigated - but I just want the problem understood and fixed) without access to the roof any survey might not locate the probably / possible source of the problem.

Any suggestions on how I can proceed?

Clive

sounds like a classic case of turning a molehill into a mountain. Get a dehumidifier with humidistat and most likely the problem will disappear.


NT

In article ,
wrote:
1) The builder wants access to the roof to inspect the coping stones at
the top of the parapet as he feels that could be the source of water
ingress. Ok, if that is true, how come the damp is not experienced by
the top floor flats? I have asked the occupants of the top floor flats -
I have only established contact with one flat owner at the moment - if
they experience damp, and they say no. I have left my phone number at
all flats asking for any information on symptoms of damp. Those I have
spoken to say the have temporary condensation issues fixed by opening
windows.

If water is getting inside a cavity wall, it could appear almost anywhere.
Although it would seem odd that it travelled several floors before
becoming noticeable.

Why not use a decent drone and camera to inspect the top of the wall?

--
*If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

wrote:
On Wednesday, 27 December 2017 07:58:32 UTC, wrote:
Hello all,

Without going into (much) detail, my ground-floor flat in 1970s brick-walled self-contained block, had damp in one corner of a room. With the assent of maintenance company, I had some work carried out (Sika injection) on the external and internal walls. Currently I am not sure 1) if the wall if "drying out", 2) whether the work done was irrelevant or 3) (sleepless night scenario) the work done has made the problem permanently worse, since damp has re-emerged internal on one (very rainy) day.

My question is: what "rights" do I have to have the roof inspected and can the freeholder / maintenance company refuse access for inspection?

I am trying to locate a competent, impartial, experienced building inspector / surveyor in North London to advise on any recommended further actions. I am in discussion with one surveyor as how to proceed.

Is there a specialist building / damp or legal forum I could go to for advice before I start paying large amounts in professional fees? I accept the information I gain through forums may be ill-informed opinion but I am hoping someone who reads this can give me advice based on knowledge or personal experience - or at least point me in the right direction as to where to get help.

My current issue is that the parties concerned have different positions on how to proceed

1) The builder wants access to the roof to inspect the coping stones at the top of the parapet as he feels that could be the source of water ingress. Ok, if that is true, how come the damp is not experienced by the top floor flats? I have asked the occupants of the top floor flats - I have only established contact with one flat owner at the moment - if they experience damp, and they say no. I have left my phone number at all flats asking for any information on symptoms of damp. Those I have spoken to say the have temporary condensation issues fixed by opening windows.

2) The building manager will not permit my builder access to the roof citing insurance concerns/ restrictions. I understand this concern.

3) I have had a phone conversation and sent an email with some attached photographs of the problem to a local building surveyor. I have asked the surveyor for his fees.

My great concern is the work I have had done has actually made the problem worse and is irreversible. My more immediate concern is if I pay for a survey (one could argue it is the collective responsibility of the block for such issues to be investigated - but I just want the problem understood and fixed) without access to the roof any survey might not locate the probably / possible source of the problem.

Any suggestions on how I can proceed?

Clive

sounds like a classic case of turning a molehill into a mountain. Get a dehumidifier with humidistat and most likely the problem will disappear.


NT

Get a drone and photograph it.

sounds like a classic case of turning a molehill into a mountain. Get a dehumidifier with humidistat and most likely the problem will disappear.


NT

Get a drone and photograph it.

I am running a dehumidifier at the moment near the dampness but what was concerning me was the wall was getting wet rather than damp (maybe a subtle distinction) after the work was done.

I like the suggestions of a drone. I will investigate that.

Clive

On Wednesday, 27 December 2017 11:13:17 UTC, wrote:

sounds like a classic case of turning a molehill into a mountain. Get a dehumidifier with humidistat and most likely the problem will disappear.


NT

Get a drone and photograph it.

I am running a dehumidifier at the moment near the dampness but what was concerning me was the wall was getting wet rather than damp (maybe a subtle distinction) after the work was done.

I like the suggestions of a drone. I will investigate that.

Clive

If it's not condensation, the pattern of the damp sometimes tells a thing or 2.

A camera on a pole is often simpler than a drone.


NT

wrote:
On Wednesday, 27 December 2017 11:13:17 UTC, wrote:

sounds like a classic case of turning a molehill into a mountain. Get a dehumidifier with humidistat and most likely the problem will disappear.


NT

Get a drone and photograph it.

I am running a dehumidifier at the moment near the dampness but what was concerning me was the wall was getting wet rather than damp (maybe a subtle distinction) after the work was done.

I like the suggestions of a drone. I will investigate that.

Clive

If it's not condensation, the pattern of the damp sometimes tells a thing or 2.

A camera on a pole is often simpler than a drone.


NT

Except that he said it is multistory and he was not on upper one or I
would have mentioned that

On Wednesday, 27 December 2017 13:45:22 UTC, FMurtz wrote:
tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 27 December 2017 11:13:17 UTC, wrote:

sounds like a classic case of turning a molehill into a mountain. Get a dehumidifier with humidistat and most likely the problem will disappear.


NT

Get a drone and photograph it.

I am running a dehumidifier at the moment near the dampness but what was concerning me was the wall was getting wet rather than damp (maybe a subtle distinction) after the work was done.

I like the suggestions of a drone. I will investigate that.

Clive

If it's not condensation, the pattern of the damp sometimes tells a thing or 2.

A camera on a pole is often simpler than a drone.


NT

Except that he said it is multistory and he was not on upper one or I
would have mentioned that

I'm pretty sure he can choose his options himself based on how near he can get access. I doubt we need advise on that point. Nor do I need point out that in a percentage of cases one can get fairly near.


NT

On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 23:58:28 -0800, clive.r.long wrote:

Hello all,

Without going into (much) detail, my ground-floor flat in 1970s
brick-walled self-contained block, had damp in one corner of a room.
With the assent of maintenance company, I had some work carried out
(Sika injection) on the external and internal walls. Currently I am
not sure 1) if the wall if "drying out", 2) whether the work done was
irrelevant or 3) (sleepless night scenario) the work done has made
the problem permanently worse, since damp has re-emerged internal on
one (very rainy) day.

My question is: what "rights" do I have to have the roof inspected and
can the freeholder / maintenance company refuse access for inspection?

I am trying to locate a competent, impartial, experienced building
inspector / surveyor in North London to advise on any recommended
further actions. I am in discussion with one surveyor as how to proceed.

Is there a specialist building / damp or legal forum I could go to for
advice before I start paying large amounts in professional fees? I
accept the information I gain through forums may be ill-informed opinion
but I am hoping someone who reads this can give me advice based on
knowledge or personal experience - or at least point me in the right
direction as to where to get help.

My current issue is that the parties concerned have different positions
on how to proceed

1) The builder wants access to the roof to inspect the coping stones at
the top of the parapet as he feels that could be the source of water
ingress. Ok, if that is true, how come the damp is not experienced by
the top floor flats? I have asked the occupants of the top floor flats -
I have only established contact with one flat owner at the moment - if
they experience damp, and they say no. I have left my phone number at
all flats asking for any information on symptoms of damp. Those I have
spoken to say the have temporary condensation issues fixed by opening
windows.

2) The building manager will not permit my builder access to the roof
citing insurance concerns/ restrictions. I understand this concern.

3) I have had a phone conversation and sent an email with some attached
photographs of the problem to a local building surveyor. I have asked
the surveyor for his fees.

My great concern is the work I have had done has actually made the
problem worse and is irreversible. My more immediate concern is if I pay
for a survey (one could argue it is the collective responsibility of the
block for such issues to be investigated - but I just want the problem
understood and fixed) without access to the roof any survey might not
locate the probably / possible source of the problem.

Any suggestions on how I can proceed?

Clive

How many storeys in the block?

You can hire cherry pickers very reasonably to go up the outside and look
without actually getting onto the property.

If you are worried about legal/insurance issues then I would hire someone
who is licensed to do a drone survey. In this case DIY is almost certainly
illegal as you are flying over other peoples' property.

I can't initially see a major issue with a builder inspecting a roof (they
do that kind of thing as a job) so I wonder if the Building Manager knows
that there is a problem and is trying to avoid it being discovered;
especially if it would mean a new roof.

Oh, is it a flat or pitched roof? That could make a difference in ease of
access if it is 8 storeys up and a pitched roof. Still, cherry picker.

One alternative is to remove on or more bricks/blocks from inside the wall
at the main point of damp. That would at least establish of there is
mortar on a wall tie bridging the gap. As you are on the ground floor you
could also remove a brick from the outside.

As far as I know cavity walls are expected to have some water running down
between the cavities at times. What should not happen is that the water
bridges across the cavity. So to me it is less important if the water is
coming from above or from directly outside. In either case it should not
be able to get from the outside to the inside. Of course, if there is a
problem right at the top which allows water to run all the way down the
inner wall then you could have problems, but even then the water should
run past your room and into the foundations.

Main thing is that if you have had the inner wall waterproofed and the
water is still coming through the area that has been treated then the
treatment has not (yet) worked.

Cheers


Dave R


--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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Is there a bathroom or kitchen above the room affected or a radiator? I have seen leaks between storeys where only the wall has been affected and the ceiling unaffected. The fact that you feel the damp has got wetter after the damp proofing work in my opinion supports an internal issue.

Richard

On 27/12/2017 10:52, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
If water is getting inside a cavity wall, it could appear almost anywhere.
Although it would seem odd that it travelled several floors before
becoming noticeable.

It might be that being a 70's build, the brickies threw the snots down
inside the cavity wall, so you have a solid wall from DPC up about 3
brick courses. My 76 semi was like this.

If the coping stones have suffered thermal creep over the years then
water may well be running down the inner face of the outer leaf,
which would explain why the upper flats don't have a problem. The
water hits the bridged cavity when it gets to you. The wall ties
will also be covered with lumps of mortar from the brickies actions
(mine are like that).

I would insist on having a couple of corner bricks removed from
DPC up and a flexible camera poked in to see what the cavity is
like.

Also use a pair of binos and look for mortar damage. Has an
upper flat had a new boiler fitted into the wall above where
your damp appears ?. Are there any leaking gutters or downpipes
or overflows. Are there any leaking appliances in the flats
above that could be tracking around their concrete floors and
entering the cavity some way from where the appliance is ?.