I got a package today with the "dead tree & fish" label on it & a
13-page safety data sheet inside. It turns out that desoldering braid
is so labelled because copper is "aquatic acute 1, H400" and "aquatic
chronic 1, H410". (The other component, rosin, is marked as "skin
sens. 1, H317".)

I'm a bit surprised that copper is apparently safe to contain & carry
drinking water but a hazard if dropped in water outside. What am I
missing here?

On Wednesday, 13 December 2017 14:00:07 UTC, Adam Funk wrote:
I got a package today with the "dead tree & fish" label on it & a
13-page safety data sheet inside. It turns out that desoldering braid
is so labelled because copper is "aquatic acute 1, H400" and "aquatic
chronic 1, H410". (The other component, rosin, is marked as "skin
sens. 1, H317".)

I'm a bit surprised that copper is apparently safe to contain & carry
drinking water but a hazard if dropped in water outside. What am I
missing here?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper#Toxicity

On 13/12/2017 14:38, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 13 December 2017 14:00:07 UTC, Adam Funk wrote:
I got a package today with the "dead tree & fish" label on it & a
13-page safety data sheet inside. It turns out that desoldering braid
is so labelled because copper is "aquatic acute 1, H400" and "aquatic
chronic 1, H410". (The other component, rosin, is marked as "skin
sens. 1, H317".)

I'm a bit surprised that copper is apparently safe to contain & carry
drinking water but a hazard if dropped in water outside. What am I
missing here?

The surface area to weight ratio. Copper pipe isn't that easy to
dissolve whereas desolder braid will rot away quite quickly. It can be
quite bad for fish. It is true for all heavy metals to a greater or
lesser extent even iron which we need for haemoglobin can be toxic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper#Toxicity

I recall a copper tainted well not far from here which in times past
resulted in a lot of unexplained illness in the people who used it.
There were a fair number of copper mines round here in the distant past.
It isn't clear if arsenic colocated with the copper mineral vein wasn't
at least partially responsible for their problems.

Some copper mine spoil heaps have grass that has adapted to growing on
highly copper rich soils where there is almost no competition. Humans
can normally tolerate some copper in their diet but certain breeds of
sheep and dairy cows are prone to concentrating it and then expiring.

http://www.fwi.co.uk/livestock/farme...g-in-sheep.htm

(and links therein)

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 2017-12-13, Chris Hogg wrote:

On Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:58:53 +0000, Adam Funk
wrote:

I got a package today with the "dead tree & fish" label on it & a
13-page safety data sheet inside. It turns out that desoldering braid
is so labelled because copper is "aquatic acute 1, H400" and "aquatic
chronic 1, H410". (The other component, rosin, is marked as "skin
sens. 1, H317".)

I'm a bit surprised that copper is apparently safe to contain & carry
drinking water but a hazard if dropped in water outside. What am I
missing here?

Stuff he https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_toxicity
Copper is potentially toxic to a lot of life forms, depending on the
life form and copper concentration, although it sounds as though the
safety data sheet in your package is an example of COSHH and H&S gone
quite stupid, certainly more so than usual.

RS Components are pretty thorough about H&S labelling & data sheets.

On 2017-12-13, Martin Brown wrote:

On 13/12/2017 14:38, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 13 December 2017 14:00:07 UTC, Adam Funk wrote:
I got a package today with the "dead tree & fish" label on it & a
13-page safety data sheet inside. It turns out that desoldering braid
is so labelled because copper is "aquatic acute 1, H400" and "aquatic
chronic 1, H410". (The other component, rosin, is marked as "skin
sens. 1, H317".)

I'm a bit surprised that copper is apparently safe to contain & carry
drinking water but a hazard if dropped in water outside. What am I
missing here?

The surface area to weight ratio. Copper pipe isn't that easy to
dissolve whereas desolder braid will rot away quite quickly. It can be

Good point.

quite bad for fish. It is true for all heavy metals to a greater or
lesser extent even iron which we need for haemoglobin can be toxic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper#Toxicity

I recall a copper tainted well not far from here which in times past
resulted in a lot of unexplained illness in the people who used it.
There were a fair number of copper mines round here in the distant past.
It isn't clear if arsenic colocated with the copper mineral vein wasn't
at least partially responsible for their problems.

Some copper mine spoil heaps have grass that has adapted to growing on
highly copper rich soils where there is almost no competition. Humans
can normally tolerate some copper in their diet but certain breeds of
sheep and dairy cows are prone to concentrating it and then expiring.

http://www.fwi.co.uk/livestock/farme...g-in-sheep.htm

(and links therein)

That all makes sense, thanks. The other thing I thought of after
posting the question is that "outside" water might be acidic or
otherwise more capable of dissolving copper than drinking water is.

Adam Funk wrote:

That all makes sense, thanks. The other thing I thought of after
posting the question is that "outside" water might be acidic or
otherwise more capable of dissolving copper than drinking water is.

There's also the possibility that water animals (especially those with
gills?) may be more susceptible to copper than we are. Poisons can be
quite species specific sometimes.

--
Chris Green
·

On 13-Dec-17 1:58 PM, Adam Funk wrote:
I got a package today with the "dead tree & fish" label on it & a
13-page safety data sheet inside. It turns out that desoldering braid
is so labelled because copper is "aquatic acute 1, H400" and "aquatic
chronic 1, H410". (The other component, rosin, is marked as "skin
sens. 1, H317".)

I'm a bit surprised that copper is apparently safe to contain & carry
drinking water but a hazard if dropped in water outside. What am I
missing here?


Wooden ships used to be sheathed in copper in order to prevent marine
life from growing on the hull. SFAIK it is still used in antifouling paints.

--
--

Colin Bignell

On 13/12/2017 16:39, Nightjar wrote:
On 13-Dec-17 1:58 PM, Adam Funk wrote:
I got a package today with the "dead tree & fish" label on it & a
13-page safety data sheet inside.Â* It turns out that desoldering braid
is so labelled because copper is "aquatic acute 1, H400" and "aquatic
chronic 1, H410".Â* (The other component, rosin, is marked as "skin
sens. 1, H317".)

I'm a bit surprised that copper is apparently safe to contain & carry
drinking water but a hazard if dropped in water outside.Â* What am I
missing here?


Wooden ships used to be sheathed in copper in order to prevent marine
life from growing on the hull. SFAIK it is still used in antifouling
paints.

Increasingly the antifouling paints are inert and extremely slippery as
this both prevents marine life getting stuck on and decreases friction
against the water by over 5% (and a big saving in fuel bills).

https://www.international-marine.com...cus/Intersleek

The days of noxious paints on boats polluting harbour waters is almost
at an end. Older boats may still have TBT and other nasties on them -
but use of that stuff was officially banned in 2008 and strongly
discouraged for a while before that.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Sounds bonkers except of course it sounds like somebody is going to make
money out of it.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Adam Funk" wrote in message
...
I got a package today with the "dead tree & fish" label on it & a
13-page safety data sheet inside. It turns out that desoldering braid
is so labelled because copper is "aquatic acute 1, H400" and "aquatic
chronic 1, H410". (The other component, rosin, is marked as "skin
sens. 1, H317".)

I'm a bit surprised that copper is apparently safe to contain & carry
drinking water but a hazard if dropped in water outside. What am I
missing here?

Yes its used to stop moss growth, also of course copper can be turned into
nasty stuff if used in salt water.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:58:53 +0000, Adam Funk
wrote:

I got a package today with the "dead tree & fish" label on it & a
13-page safety data sheet inside. It turns out that desoldering braid
is so labelled because copper is "aquatic acute 1, H400" and "aquatic
chronic 1, H410". (The other component, rosin, is marked as "skin
sens. 1, H317".)

I'm a bit surprised that copper is apparently safe to contain & carry
drinking water but a hazard if dropped in water outside. What am I
missing here?

Stuff he https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_toxicity
Copper is potentially toxic to a lot of life forms, depending on the
life form and copper concentration, although it sounds as though the
safety data sheet in your package is an example of COSHH and H&S gone
quite stupid, certainly more so than usual.

--

Chris

On Wednesday, 13 December 2017 14:00:07 UTC, Adam Funk wrote:
I'm a bit surprised that copper is apparently safe to contain & carry
drinking water but a hazard if dropped in water outside. What am I
missing here?

The effect of copper that prevents things growing in the water is beneficial to us as it prevents nasty things growing in our drinking water - at least in the concentrations to be found in drinking water.

It's the same as chlorine - very nasty stuff, but in the concentrations in drinking water (or swimming pool water) it kills more bugs than it harms us.

Owain

On 13/12/2017 16:39, Nightjar wrote:
On 13-Dec-17 1:58 PM, Adam Funk wrote:
I got a package today with the "dead tree & fish" label on it & a
13-page safety data sheet inside.Â* It turns out that desoldering braid
is so labelled because copper is "aquatic acute 1, H400" and "aquatic
chronic 1, H410".Â* (The other component, rosin, is marked as "skin
sens. 1, H317".)

I'm a bit surprised that copper is apparently safe to contain & carry
drinking water but a hazard if dropped in water outside.Â* What am I
missing here?


Wooden ships used to be sheathed in copper in order to prevent marine
life from growing on the hull. SFAIK it is still used in antifouling
paints.

The gunpowder stores on Royal Navy ships were lined with copper too,
but I believe this was to prevent rodents gnawing their way in and then
leaving a trail of gunpowder leading back to the bulk store. Boom.

On 14/12/2017 19:18, Andrew wrote:
On 13/1

The gunpowder stores on Royal Navy ships were lined with copper too,
but I believe this was to prevent rodents gnawing their way in
Also the prevention of sparks.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 2017-12-13, Chris Green wrote:

Adam Funk wrote:

That all makes sense, thanks. The other thing I thought of after
posting the question is that "outside" water might be acidic or
otherwise more capable of dissolving copper than drinking water is.

There's also the possibility that water animals (especially those with
gills?) may be more susceptible to copper than we are. Poisons can be
quite species specific sometimes.

Now that you mention it, I've seen aquarium instructions advising
against using hot tap water because it contains more dissolved copper
than cold.

On 15/12/2017 11:11, Adam Funk wrote:
On 2017-12-13, Chris Green wrote:


Now that you mention it, I've seen aquarium instructions advising
against using hot tap water because it contains more dissolved copper
than cold.


I've kept freshwater tropical fish for nearly 50 years. Copper sulphate
is the traditional cure for snail infestations and some parasites.

Obviously too much will be toxic but at the right concentration it can
kill invertebrates but harmless to fish and plants.

I use a mixture of (cold) rainwater and (hot) tap water for weekly
changes, but the cylinder and pipes are probably so scaled up with
Hampshire's finest from chalk boreholes that it doesn't touch any copper.

--
Reentrant

On Saturday, 16 December 2017 15:30:28 UTC, Reentrant wrote:
On 15/12/2017 11:11, Adam Funk wrote:
On 2017-12-13, Chris Green wrote:


Now that you mention it, I've seen aquarium instructions advising
against using hot tap water because it contains more dissolved copper
than cold.


I've kept freshwater tropical fish for nearly 50 years. Copper sulphate
is the traditional cure for snail infestations and some parasites.

Obviously too much will be toxic but at the right concentration it can
kill invertebrates but harmless to fish and plants.

I use a mixture of (cold) rainwater and (hot) tap water for weekly
changes, but the cylinder and pipes are probably so scaled up with
Hampshire's finest from chalk boreholes that it doesn't touch any copper.

I knew tropical fish keepers, some of whom used cold tap water. One day one of them had new copper plumbing fitted, used the water and the fish all died. The pipes were not scaled. Like any nutrient or toxin, dose is everything.


NT