Hi. I had a Rockdoor fitted recently. I have a small problem. The key can't be turned unless I pull on the door at the same time. Leaving, I have to push. I can see that the seal is not evenly compressed around the door. It's tight at the top and bottom but not in the middle. As if the frame or door is bowed.

After weeks of saying that's how these modern doors are, someone has had a look and explained to my wife that our bricks are not even such is causing the kink.

I can't see how that would bend the frame in that direction.

What do people think and how could I get a second opinion?

Thanks.

On 04/12/2017 18:44, Peter Smithson wrote:
Hi. I had a Rockdoor fitted recently. I have a small problem. The key can't be turned unless I pull on the door at the same time. Leaving, I have to push. I can see that the seal is not evenly compressed around the door. It's tight at the top and bottom but not in the middle. As if the frame or door is bowed.

After weeks of saying that's how these modern doors are, someone has had a look and explained to my wife that our bricks are not even such is causing the kink.

I can't see how that would bend the frame in that direction.

What do people think and how could I get a second opinion?

Thanks.

Use a spirit level (longish one) and check the door frame and the actual
door for vertical alignment.

On 04/12/2017 19:42, ss wrote:
On 04/12/2017 18:44, Peter Smithson wrote:
Hi. I had a Rockdoor fitted recently. I have a small problem. The key
can't be turned unless I pull on the door at the same time. Leaving, I
have to push. I can see that the seal is not evenly compressed around
the door. It's tight at the top and bottom but not in the middle. As
if the frame or door is bowed.

After weeks of saying that's how these modern doors are, someone has
had a look and explained to my wife that our bricks are not even such
is causing the kink.

I can't see how that would bend the frame in that direction.

What do people think and how could I get a second opinion?

Thanks.

Use a spirit level (longish one) and check the door frame and the actual
door for vertical alignment.

From the description it sounds as though one part may not be straight.
But a long spirit level should also help diagnosis.

I have a long plank of wood I could use. But even if I show that the frame is bent, they'll say it's the bricks that the frame is mounted on which doesn't sound right.

On 04/12/2017 22:13, Peter Smithson wrote:
I have a long plank of wood I could use. But even if I show that the frame is bent, they'll say it's the bricks that the frame is mounted on which doesn't sound right.

I am not a tradesman but I think if the bricks were out of plumb then
packers should have been used.

On Monday, 4 December 2017 22:34:24 UTC, ss wrote:
On 04/12/2017 22:13, Peter Smithson wrote:
I have a long plank of wood I could use. But even if I show that the frame is bent, they'll say it's the bricks that the frame is mounted on which doesn't sound right.

I am not a tradesman but I think if the bricks were out of plumb then
packers should have been used.

yes, it's no-go as an excuse.


NT

On 04/12/2017 22:13, Peter Smithson wrote:
I have a long plank of wood I could use. But even if I show that the
frame is bent, they'll say it's the bricks that the frame is mounted
on which doesn't sound right.

They are the ones who fixed it to the brickwork, and they get to choose
where to drill them. So it does not really matter what the bricks do!

(could you not just free the middle frame fastening to let the frame
spring "straight" and then redrill for a new fixing?

--
Cheers,

John.

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Peter Smithson wrote:

if I show that the frame is bent, they'll say it's the bricks that
the frame is mounted on

No, the frame should always be fitted level, plumb, straight and true -
regardless of the opening.

In article ,
Peter Smithson wrote:
After weeks of saying that's how these modern doors are, someone has had a look and explained to my wife that our bricks are not even such is causing the kink.

How the frame is fitted to the opening is the important bit. No bricks are
perfectly even so you need to use wedges to take up gaps, and make sure it
is perfectly level and square when screwed in place.

--
*Can atheists get insurance for acts of God? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Peter Smithson wrote:

someone has had a look and explained to my wife that our bricks are
not even such is causing the kink.

Who measured up the door before ordering?

On Monday, 4 December 2017 22:13:16 UTC, Peter Smithson wrote:
I have a long plank of wood I could use. But even if I show that the frame is bent, they'll say it's the bricks that the frame is mounted on which doesn't sound right.

No brickwork is completely flat.
Frames are easily bent out of true by the fixing screws.
When door frames are installed, Packing pieces are put under it to make up irregularities/prevent it from being distorted. Either bits of wood or, these days, plastic.

Cement/ render may be additionally squeezed under it afterwards.
This is why door fitters/carpenters are skilled.
It seems yours weren't. Not uncommon these days.
It's definitely crap workmanship.

The wood its made from is the usual crap and as the dampness changes so does
the door or frame. However if its not actually wood I've still seen it
happen in warm weather, presumably due to expansion of the metal inside or
something similar. if its a new fit, then I'd get the blokes back. Sadly
since in this country you cannot get it fixed by a good craftsman and then
send them the bill there is a good chance that the next attempt will be
worse before you can do that.
Be fast though as companies like this in my experience vanish very fast and
then resurface with a shiny new unblemished name.
Brian
Bah Humbug


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Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Peter Smithson" wrote in message
...
Hi. I had a Rockdoor fitted recently. I have a small problem. The key can't
be turned unless I pull on the door at the same time. Leaving, I have to
push. I can see that the seal is not evenly compressed around the door. It's
tight at the top and bottom but not in the middle. As if the frame or door
is bowed.

After weeks of saying that's how these modern doors are, someone has had a
look and explained to my wife that our bricks are not even such is causing
the kink.

I can't see how that would bend the frame in that direction.

What do people think and how could I get a second opinion?

Thanks.

Bricks seldom move, it sounds like they bent something or its become bent
afterwards to me.
Bricks are hardly ever totally even but you do not use the bricks as a
guide, after all.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
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Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Peter Smithson" wrote in message
...
I have a long plank of wood I could use. But even if I show that the frame
is bent, they'll say it's the bricks that the frame is mounted on which
doesn't sound right.

On 04/12/2017 18:44, Peter Smithson wrote:
Hi. I had a Rockdoor fitted recently. I have a small problem. The key can't be turned unless I pull on the door at the same time. Leaving, I have to push. I can see that the seal is not evenly compressed around the door. It's tight at the top and bottom but not in the middle. As if the frame or door is bowed.

After weeks of saying that's how these modern doors are, someone has had a look and explained to my wife that our bricks are not even such is causing the kink.

I can't see how that would bend the frame in that direction.

What do people think and how could I get a second opinion?

Thanks.

The installer is trying to put you off. Make it clear to them that you
are not happy and are getting a second opinion and if that confirms the
door was badly installed (which is almost certainly the case) you will
be pursuing them to either make it right or pay to have it done.

Mike

In article ,
harry wrote:
No brickwork is completely flat. Frames are easily bent out of true by
the fixing screws. When door frames are installed, Packing pieces are
put under it to make up irregularities/prevent it from being distorted.
Either bits of wood or, these days, plastic.


I bought a kit of plastic wedges. They are U shaped, so fit over the screw
shank between frame and brickwork, etc. Sized in 1mm steps. Very useful
for other things too. Screwfix or Toolstation.

--
*Preserve wildlife - Go pickle a squirrel*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The same company measured and fitted it. The only people I've spoken to are from that company.

I still owe half of full payment so I have some leverage. I can't think how to get hold of an independent expert as these guys are going to keep coming up with excuses.

Peter Smithson Wrote in message:
Hi. I had a Rockdoor fitted recently. I have a small problem. The key can't be turned unless I pull on the door at the same time. Leaving, I have to push. I can see that the seal is not evenly compressed around the door. It's tight at the top and bottom but not in the middle. As if the frame or door is bowed.

After weeks of saying that's how these modern doors are, someone has had a look and explained to my wife that our bricks are not even such is causing the kink.

I can't see how that would bend the frame in that direction.

What do people think and how could I get a second opinion?

Thanks.


I have a composite door which suffers from distortion in strong
sunlight.
It's blue outside and white inside and bows by about 6mm at the
top. I complained and the supplier fitted a whole new door.
It's pretty much still as bad, but when I lift the handle prior
to locking, the claw action of the retaining mechanism realigns
the door sufficiently to lock without issues.

Phil
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On Mon, 4 Dec 2017 14:13:10 -0800 (PST)
Peter Smithson wrote:

I have a long plank of wood I could use. But even if I show that the
frame is bent, they'll say it's the bricks that the frame is mounted
on which doesn't sound right.

If they do you just have to point out that the fitter should have used
packing pieces to compensate for the unevenness.

Peter Smithson wrote

I still owe half of full payment so I have some leverage.

You do indeed.

I can't think how to get hold of an independent expert
as these guys are going to keep coming up with excuses.

They get to fix it or go without the final half payment.

Thing is, the direction of the bend can't be explained by the bricks.

Imagine my wall runs east to west. If a brick was sticking out, you'd expect a bend in the east or west direction. But the bend is in the north/south direction. Their explanation makes no sense to me.

I've still got to figure out if it's really the door or the frame that's bent (in not at home for a few days).

I wonder if the frame is slightly too big and it's bent slightly to wedge it in.

I've no idea how to adjust fixings.

Just noticed that this web interface doesn't quote so I'm replying to! Hope it's somehow clear so I'm replying to.

Regarding door that bends in the heat. I wonder if that is the problem. The direction of the door means the sun doesn't land on it often and it's winter now but I was home one sunny weekend and noticed the problem virtually vanished. But the company is telling me it's the frame. I'll have to check it out when I get home. I just expected them to fix it!

Peter Smithson wrote

Thing is, the direction of the bend can't be explained by the bricks.

They still stuffed up and needed to ensure that
the frame was installed so that it was true.

Imagine my wall runs east to west. If a brick was sticking
out, you'd expect a bend in the east or west direction.
But the bend is in the north/south direction.

Yep, they stuffed up.

Their explanation makes no sense to me.

Yep, they can't even bull**** their way out of their predicament.

Tell them they wont get paid until they fix it.

On 06/12/2017 06:20, Peter Smithson wrote:
I've still got to figure out if it's really the door or the frame that's bent (in not at home for a few days).

I wonder if the frame is slightly too big and it's bent slightly to wedge it in.

I've no idea how to adjust fixings.

Get them back to fix it - it sounds like its not right, and it should be!


--
Cheers,

John.

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On 06/12/2017 06:26, Peter Smithson wrote:
Just noticed that this web interface doesn't quote so I'm replying to! Hope it's somehow clear so I'm replying to.

Regarding door that bends in the heat. I wonder if that is the problem. The direction of the door means the sun doesn't land on it often and it's winter now but I was home one sunny weekend and noticed the problem virtually vanished. But the company is telling me it's the frame. I'll have to check it out when I get home. I just expected them to fix it!


If the frame can be shown to be bent with a straight edge, then you are
already off to a bad start.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
Peter Smithson wrote:
Thing is, the direction of the bend can't be explained by the bricks.

Imagine my wall runs east to west. If a brick was sticking out, you'd
expect a bend in the east or west direction. But the bend is in the
north/south direction. Their explanation makes no sense to me.

Not unusual for a pro to give the first excuse that comes into his head
when you complain about obviously shoddy work. Think cars and garages.
They just assume you will take their word for it as the expert. And may
even take delight in inventing some ridiculous reasons.

--
*I didn't drive my husband crazy -- I flew him there -- it was faster

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Peter Smithson wrote:
I've still got to figure out if it's really the door or the frame that's
bent (in not at home for a few days).

I wonder if the frame is slightly too big and it's bent slightly to
wedge it in.

I've no idea how to adjust fixings.

Having recently fitted a UPVC door and frame at home, you have to measure
the opening carefully, and order up the unit with clearance all round.
Precisely so it can be packed absolutely true and square. If the frame
ain't level and square the door won't fit properly. Which is why you've
paid a lot extra to have it fitted for you.

Buying my door online and fitting it myself saved 50% of the cost. So with
that sort of labour cost, you're entitled to have it done properly.

If the frame is too big, the only real option is to have the whole lot
replaced properly. If it is only one brick which is causing the problem,
it might be possible to fix that.

But easy enough to check yourself with a decent spirit level.

--
*Husbands should come with instructions

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.