I'll search again for the stopcock, but it looks as though it may be
simpler just to freeze the pipe for the short time it takes to add an
inline valve to the end.

The trouble is that I have only ever frozen copper pipe, but this is
grey plastic. Can you freeze that? Or is there some other method?

It did occur to me that a mole grip would squeeze the pipe shut, but I
doubt that would be a good idea.

On 04/12/17 11:31, GB wrote:
I'll search again for the stopcock, but it looks as though it may be
simpler just to freeze the pipe for the short time it takes to add an
inline valve to the end.

The trouble is that I have only ever frozen copper pipe, but this is
grey plastic. Can you freeze that? Or is there some other method?

I dont know whether you can, but cold weather certainly can. Howver tne
thermal conductivity is far lower than copper, so it will take much longer.




It did occur to me that a mole grip would squeeze the pipe shut, but I
doubt that would be a good idea.

No.

Plastic is not as infintely deformable as rubber brake pipes!



--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 04/12/2017 11:31, GB wrote:

I'll search again for the stopcock, but it looks as though it may be
simpler just to freeze the pipe for the short time it takes to add an
inline valve to the end.

The trouble is that I have only ever frozen copper pipe, but this is
grey plastic. Can you freeze that? Or is there some other method?

It did occur to me that a mole grip would squeeze the pipe shut, but I
doubt that would be a good idea.

You can get pipe squeeze devices for the purpose:

https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Han...ff+Tool/p39855

However they are really designed for HDPE mains style supply pipes and
not speedfit style barrier pipe like used on water and heating systems.

They will still work on the those (although some will need a packer to
close small enough), but it might not do the pipe much good long term.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 04-Dec-17 11:31 AM, GB wrote:
I'll search again for the stopcock, but it looks as though it may be
simpler just to freeze the pipe for the short time it takes to add an
inline valve to the end.

The trouble is that I have only ever frozen copper pipe, but this is
grey plastic. Can you freeze that? Or is there some other method?

It did occur to me that a mole grip would squeeze the pipe shut, but I
doubt that would be a good idea.

Grey pipe is usually BS 3505 PVC or the equivalent ABS pipe. That is a
rigid pipe, which you cannot squeeze shut, or at least not if you hope
it will recover again afterwards. It also has quite thick walls (at
least 3mm on the smaller sizes) so I doubt that a freezer spray would
work. You need to find the stopcock.

--
--

Colin Bignell

Don't know but those freezer kits are pretty expensive for just stopping the
water.
I'd imagine the pipe might be a bit of a bother. Do the instructions not
say what sort of pip you can freeze?

You see no stopcock, but there has to be a way for the supplier to turn off
the water somewhere.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"GB" wrote in message
news
I'll search again for the stopcock, but it looks as though it may be
simpler just to freeze the pipe for the short time it takes to add an
inline valve to the end.

The trouble is that I have only ever frozen copper pipe, but this is grey
plastic. Can you freeze that? Or is there some other method?

It did occur to me that a mole grip would squeeze the pipe shut, but I
doubt that would be a good idea.

On 04/12/2017 11:31, GB wrote:
I'll search again for the stopcock, but it looks as though it may be
simpler just to freeze the pipe for the short time it takes to add an
inline valve to the end.

The trouble is that I have only ever frozen copper pipe, but this is
grey plastic. Can you freeze that? Or is there some other method?

It did occur to me that a mole grip would squeeze the pipe shut, but I
doubt that would be a good idea.

Go to the street stopcock/water-meter and shut it off there.

On Monday, 4 December 2017 11:32:00 UTC, GB wrote:
I'll search again for the stopcock, but it looks as though it may be
simpler just to freeze the pipe for the short time it takes to add an
inline valve to the end.

The trouble is that I have only ever frozen copper pipe, but this is
grey plastic. Can you freeze that? Or is there some other method?

It did occur to me that a mole grip would squeeze the pipe shut, but I
doubt that would be a good idea.

If it's ABS pipe you can do it.
If it's PVC, it goes brittle and may crack open.
No easy way to tell the difference.

Takes a lot longer to freeze than copper (good insulator)

replying to GB, Iggy wrote:
Definitely use the stopcock, even if it's for the whole place out at the
street...there has to be one. A frozen plug could and likely would just shoot
out, unless its at a bend...and freezing isn't good for any kind of piping.
Otherwise, you might want to consider a single Jet Swet or a whole kit (
http://www.brenelle.com/ ). You'll still get awfully wet, but you should be
able to get it in with all faucets running to dramatically drop the
pressure...unless your valve is before any outlets, in that case you don't
know what you're doing, are completely daft and NEED to get a Professional.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...e-1254394-.htm

Yes i already suggested that.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"www.GymRatZ.co.uk" wrote in message
news
On 04/12/2017 11:31, GB wrote:
I'll search again for the stopcock, but it looks as though it may be
simpler just to freeze the pipe for the short time it takes to add an
inline valve to the end.

The trouble is that I have only ever frozen copper pipe, but this is
grey plastic. Can you freeze that? Or is there some other method?

It did occur to me that a mole grip would squeeze the pipe shut, but I
doubt that would be a good idea.

Go to the street stopcock/water-meter and shut it off there.

On 04/12/2017 12:06, Nightjar wrote:
On 04-Dec-17 11:31 AM, GB wrote:
I'll search again for the stopcock, but it looks as though it may be
simpler just to freeze the pipe for the short time it takes to add an
inline valve to the end.

The trouble is that I have only ever frozen copper pipe, but this is
grey plastic. Can you freeze that? Or is there some other method?

It did occur to me that a mole grip would squeeze the pipe shut, but I
doubt that would be a good idea.

Grey pipe is usually BS 3505 PVC or the equivalent ABS pipe. That is a
rigid pipe, which you cannot squeeze shut, or at least not if you hope
it will recover again afterwards. It also has quite thick walls (at
least 3mm on the smaller sizes) so I doubt that a freezer spray would
work. You need to find the stopcock.


My concern over freezing would not so much be the wall thickness
(obviously the combination of thickness and conductivity is a *factor*
in the speed of freezing) but rather that both PVC and ABS will become
more brittle at freezer temperatures. But might be worth doing a trial
on an odd bit of pipe, especially if the stopcock turns out to be failed.

Iggy m wrote

Definitely use the stopcock, even if it's for the whole place
out at the street...there has to be one. A frozen plug could
and likely would just shoot out, unless its at a bend...

Even you should be able to do it at a bend.

and freezing isn't good for any kind of piping.

Works fine in metal when you only freeze a small section.

Otherwise, you might want to consider a single
Jet Swet or a whole kit (http://www.brenelle.com/ ).
You'll still get awfully wet, but you should be able
to get it in with all faucets

They have taps, stupid.

running to dramatically drop the pressure...unless your valve
is before any outlets, in that case you don't know what you're
doing, are completely daft and NEED to get a Professional.

On 04-Dec-17 8:01 PM, newshound wrote:
On 04/12/2017 12:06, Nightjar wrote:
On 04-Dec-17 11:31 AM, GB wrote:
I'll search again for the stopcock, but it looks as though it may be
simpler just to freeze the pipe for the short time it takes to add an
inline valve to the end.

The trouble is that I have only ever frozen copper pipe, but this is
grey plastic. Can you freeze that? Or is there some other method?

It did occur to me that a mole grip would squeeze the pipe shut, but
I doubt that would be a good idea.

Grey pipe is usually BS 3505 PVC or the equivalent ABS pipe. That is a
rigid pipe, which you cannot squeeze shut, or at least not if you hope
it will recover again afterwards. It also has quite thick walls (at
least 3mm on the smaller sizes) so I doubt that a freezer spray would
work. You need to find the stopcock.


My concern over freezing would not so much be the wall thickness
(obviously the combination of thickness and conductivity is a *factor*
in the speed of freezing)

Which, IME, is rather important. I have, on a couple of occasions, used
freezer spray on copper pipe to change a jammed stopcock. However, I
found that, even under ideal conditions, using an entire can of spray
barely gave me enough time to do the job.

but rather that both PVC and ABS will become
more brittle at freezer temperatures. But might be worth doing a trial
on an odd bit of pipe, especially if the stopcock turns out to be failed.

ABS has an operating range from -40C to +60C, but PVC becomes
susceptible to impact damage at very low temperatures. However, if the
pipe is not disturbed or subject to impact when very cold, it should
survive.

--
--

Colin Bignell

On 04-Dec-17 4:06 PM, harry wrote:
On Monday, 4 December 2017 11:32:00 UTC, GB wrote:
I'll search again for the stopcock, but it looks as though it may be
simpler just to freeze the pipe for the short time it takes to add an
inline valve to the end.

The trouble is that I have only ever frozen copper pipe, but this is
grey plastic. Can you freeze that? Or is there some other method?

It did occur to me that a mole grip would squeeze the pipe shut, but I
doubt that would be a good idea.

If it's ABS pipe you can do it.
If it's PVC, it goes brittle and may crack open.
No easy way to tell the difference.

Unless there is a line of print along the pipe, giving the maker, the
standards it complies with, the material and the pressure rating.

--
--

Colin Bignell

On 05/12/2017 10:18, Nightjar wrote:
On 04-Dec-17 4:06 PM, harry wrote:
On Monday, 4 December 2017 11:32:00 UTC, GBÂ* wrote:
I'll search again for the stopcock, but it looks as though it may be
simpler just to freeze the pipe for the short time it takes to add an
inline valve to the end.

The trouble is that I have only ever frozen copper pipe, but this is
grey plastic. Can you freeze that? Or is there some other method?

It did occur to me that a mole grip would squeeze the pipe shut, but I
doubt that would be a good idea.

If it's ABS pipe you can do it.
If it's PVC, it goes brittle and may crack open.
No easy way to tell the difference.

Unless there is a line of print along the pipe, giving the maker, the
standards it complies with, the material and the pressure rating.


I'll have another look at it next time I'm round, but I'll take the
advice to FTFSC. (Find the f*** stop cock.) There's too much at stake if
it fails spectacularly.

If it can't be found, I've got one of these in stock for emergencies:
https://www.screwfix.com/p/aladdin-e...ter-pack/36008

It's just rather expensive compared to a pipe freezing kit. I've done
pipe freezing in the past without any problems, but never on plastic pipe.

On 05/12/2017 10:09, Nightjar wrote:
On 04-Dec-17 8:01 PM, newshound wrote:
On 04/12/2017 12:06, Nightjar wrote:
On 04-Dec-17 11:31 AM, GB wrote:
I'll search again for the stopcock, but it looks as though it may be
simpler just to freeze the pipe for the short time it takes to add
an inline valve to the end.

The trouble is that I have only ever frozen copper pipe, but this is
grey plastic. Can you freeze that? Or is there some other method?

It did occur to me that a mole grip would squeeze the pipe shut, but
I doubt that would be a good idea.

Grey pipe is usually BS 3505 PVC or the equivalent ABS pipe. That is
a rigid pipe, which you cannot squeeze shut, or at least not if you
hope it will recover again afterwards. It also has quite thick walls
(at least 3mm on the smaller sizes) so I doubt that a freezer spray
would work. You need to find the stopcock.


My concern over freezing would not so much be the wall thickness
(obviously the combination of thickness and conductivity is a *factor*
in the speed of freezing)

Which, IME, is rather important. I have, on a couple of occasions, used
freezer spray on copper pipe to change a jammed stopcock. However, I
found that, even under ideal conditions, using an entire can of spray
barely gave me enough time to do the job.

but rather that both PVC and ABS will become more brittle at freezer
temperatures. But might be worth doing a trial on an odd bit of pipe,
especially if the stopcock turns out to be failed.

ABS has an operating range from -40C to +60C, but PVC becomes
susceptible to impact damage at very low temperatures. However, if the
pipe is not disturbed or subject to impact when very cold, it should
survive.

I did a failure investigation a few years ago on a 40 year old plastic
pipe failure in some industrial plant (8 inch iirc). Turned out they had
a mixture of PVC and ABS in (different) pipe runs, all solvent weld. I
think the failed one was ABS (axial split along one of the extrusion
spider lines). As you said in another post, the pipes did have material
and standards markings, but they were sometimes a bit difficult to find.
These were carrying water at ambient temperatures, but the failure did
occur during cold weather. Not in a region subject to external impact or
water hammer.

On 05-Dec-17 10:29 AM, GB wrote:
On 05/12/2017 10:18, Nightjar wrote:
On 04-Dec-17 4:06 PM, harry wrote:
On Monday, 4 December 2017 11:32:00 UTC, GBÂ* wrote:
I'll search again for the stopcock, but it looks as though it may be
simpler just to freeze the pipe for the short time it takes to add an
inline valve to the end.

The trouble is that I have only ever frozen copper pipe, but this is
grey plastic. Can you freeze that? Or is there some other method?

It did occur to me that a mole grip would squeeze the pipe shut, but I
doubt that would be a good idea.

If it's ABS pipe you can do it.
If it's PVC, it goes brittle and may crack open.
No easy way to tell the difference.

Unless there is a line of print along the pipe, giving the maker, the
standards it complies with, the material and the pressure rating.


I'll have another look at it next time I'm round,

For some reason, when you actually need to look at it, whoever installed
the pipe usually put the line of text against the wall.

but I'll take the
advice to FTFSC. (Find the f*** stop cock.) There's too much at stake if
it fails spectacularly.

If it can't be found, I've got one of these in stock for emergencies:
https://www.screwfix.com/p/aladdin-e...ter-pack/36008...

The pictures show it being fitted to copper pipe. Check that it is
suitable for use with grey plastic pipe before you try fitting it :-)

It's just rather expensive compared to a pipe freezing kit. I've done
pipe freezing in the past without any problems, but never on plastic pipe.



--
--

Colin Bignell

On 05/12/2017 12:38, Nightjar wrote:

If it can't be found, I've got one of these in stock for emergencies:
https://www.screwfix.com/p/aladdin-e...ter-pack/36008...


The pictures show it being fitted to copper pipe. Check that it is
suitable for use with grey plastic pipe before you try fitting it :-)

The instructions say yes to plastic pipe, but I wouldn't dare. I'll find
the incoming main and fit it on that.