Having seen loads of imperial brick buildings fall down that were built 1890
to about 1910 way does everybody go on about how wonderful lime mortar is
......?

On 28/11/2017 20:45, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Having seen loads of imperial brick buildings fall down that were built 1890
to about 1910 way does everybody go on about how wonderful lime mortar is
.....?


Well mine hasn't fallen down in 250 years, and the lime concentration
isn't that great. (But I guess having two foot thick walls helps).

On 28/11/17 20:45, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Having seen loads of imperial brick buildings fall down that were built 1890
to about 1910 way does everybody go on about how wonderful lime mortar is
.....?


cos they are ******s

Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

Having seen loads of imperial brick buildings fall down that were built 1890
to about 1910 way does everybody go on about how wonderful lime mortar is
.....?

I bet you haven't seen many 1600, 1700 and 1800 buildings falling down.


Probably because most of them fell down before you were born.


However, if you replace the lime with Portland cement mortar (with the
older buildings) they just show a different but equally rapid
falling-down mode.

There is a comforting lesson here about the permanence of the Works of
Man.




--

Roger Hayter

On 28/11/2017 20:45, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Having seen loads of imperial brick buildings fall down that were built 1890
to about 1910 way does everybody go on about how wonderful lime mortar is
......?

The Ca(OH)2 turns into CaCO3 eventually by absorbing CO2 from the
atmosphere, which is a lot stronger.

--
Max Demian

Max Demian wrote:

On 28/11/2017 20:45, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Having seen loads of imperial brick buildings fall down that were built 1890
to about 1910 way does everybody go on about how wonderful lime mortar is
......?

The Ca(OH)2 turns into CaCO3 eventually by absorbing CO2 from the
atmosphere, which is a lot stronger.

Hydraulic lime is much stronger to start with, as it has silicates and
such-like in it, and sets somewhat like Portland cement. I have noticed
that the advice from the experts has changed radically several times in
the last fifteen years, so I suspect that there is a lot we really don't
know about using lime.



--

Roger Hayter

On 28/11/2017 20:45, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Having seen loads of imperial brick buildings fall down that were built 1890
to about 1910 way does everybody go on about how wonderful lime mortar is
.....?

Did they fall or were they pushed by a wrecking ball?

Main advantage of lime mortar where stonework is concerned is that it
prevents water being trapped above the mortar joints which leads to
freeze thaw spalling and rapid erosion of the wall. A quick way to kill
a very old building is repoint badly with modern impervious mortar.

We had a conservation expert look over our 12 century church recently
drawing attention to the different styles of stonework over the ages.
All of it held together by lime mortar apart from a few places with
modern cement based mortar repairs from the 1960's that were showing
real signs of rapid damage to stones immediately above the "repair".

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2017-11-29, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Tue, 28 Nov 2017 20:45:19 +0000, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

Having seen loads of imperial brick buildings fall down that were built
1890 to about 1910 way does everybody go on about how wonderful lime
mortar is .....?

And yet the Old Work still stands at Wroxeter - 1800 years old ?

Category error. You're only seeing the buildings which haven't fallen
down.

ha ha good point........problem was mainly imperial brickwork in
tenements....you could lift out the bricks...but touch an old building and
it falls down...that is me in the white helmet....tee hee

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH3FyjOVSSU&t=3s

In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
We had a conservation expert look over our 12 century church recently
drawing attention to the different styles of stonework over the ages.
All of it held together by lime mortar apart from a few places with
modern cement based mortar repairs from the 1960's that were showing
real signs of rapid damage to stones immediately above the "repair".

At the top end of the walls on my Victorian house are two shaped 'stones'.
With a coping as part of them. Presumably to locate the other coping
stones which are merely fixed by mortar.

One side was skimmed with ordinary mortar when the roof was replaced about
30 years ago. The other wasn't quite so bad so left.

Over the years, the mortar skim has broken off taking chunks of the
original with it, so it ended up looking terrible - much worse than before
- while the other one has hardly changed.

The 'bad' one is on the party wall, so not easy to replace with new, so I
shuttered it and repaired with hydraulic lime mortar bought 'complete'
(aggregate and lime separate, so just mix and add water ). And used
reinforcing mesh from the same company. I'll let the group know what it is
like in 30 years time. ;-)

--
*A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it uses up a thousand times more memory.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" Wrote in message:
In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
We had a conservation expert look over our 12 century church recently
drawing attention to the different styles of stonework over the ages.
All of it held together by lime mortar apart from a few places with
modern cement based mortar repairs from the 1960's that were showing
real signs of rapid damage to stones immediately above the "repair".

At the top end of the walls on my Victorian house are two shaped 'stones'.
With a coping as part of them. Presumably to locate the other coping
stones which are merely fixed by mortar.

One side was skimmed with ordinary mortar when the roof was replaced about
30 years ago. The other wasn't quite so bad so left.

Over the years, the mortar skim has broken off taking chunks of the
original with it, so it ended up looking terrible - much worse than before
- while the other one has hardly changed.

The 'bad' one is on the party wall, so not easy to replace with new, so I
shuttered it and repaired with hydraulic lime mortar bought 'complete'
(aggregate and lime separate, so just mix and add water ). And used
reinforcing mesh from the same company. I'll let the group know what it is
like in 30 years time. ;-)

Check it regularly in the meantime...

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

In article ,
jim k wrote:
The 'bad' one is on the party wall, so not easy to replace with new, so I
shuttered it and repaired with hydraulic lime mortar bought 'complete'
(aggregate and lime separate, so just mix and add water ). And used
reinforcing mesh from the same company. I'll let the group know what it is
like in 30 years time. ;-)

Check it regularly in the meantime...

I do. ;-) It has mellowed nicely in colour from near white to more of a
sandstone colour. This winter will show how well the new mortar has stuck,
I'd guess.

--
*I brake for no apparent reason.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" Wrote in message:
In article ,
jim k wrote:
The 'bad' one is on the party wall, so not easy to replace with new, so I
shuttered it and repaired with hydraulic lime mortar bought 'complete'
(aggregate and lime separate, so just mix and add water ). And used
reinforcing mesh from the same company. I'll let the group know what it is
like in 30 years time. ;-)

Check it regularly in the meantime...

I do. ;-) It has mellowed nicely in colour from near white to more of a
sandstone colour. This winter will show how well the new mortar has stuck,
I'd guess.


And how long it might last...
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Roger Hayter posted
Max Demian wrote:

On 28/11/2017 20:45, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Having seen loads of imperial brick buildings fall down that were
built 1890
to about 1910 way does everybody go on about how wonderful lime mortar is
......?

The Ca(OH)2 turns into CaCO3 eventually by absorbing CO2 from the
atmosphere, which is a lot stronger.

Hydraulic lime is much stronger to start with, as it has silicates and
such-like in it, and sets somewhat like Portland cement. I have noticed
that the advice from the experts has changed radically several times in
the last fifteen years, so I suspect that there is a lot we really don't
know about using lime.

What we and our neighbours have noticed is that different experts give
different advice on solving the same problem. That too has been going on
for years.

--
Jack