Following on from a couple of recent threads, and using
https://www.confusedaboutenergy.co.u...ic-fuels/fuel-
prices
as a reference.

John Runn said "If you fitted heatpump aircon instead, then it would be a
third to a quarter of the price for normal resistive heating."

That would give an electricity cost of about (15.4/3) 5.1 pence per kWh.
Possibly down to under 4p per kWh if the better estimate was met.

This compares to 7.1 pence per kWh for wood bought by the ton.
Smokeless fuel is 6.3 pence per kWh when bought by the ton.

This makes using a wood burner in the shed a pure vanity project.

Propane bottle and radiant heater comes in at 15.6 pence per kWh so that
is more expensive than normal electricity.

So on pure cost effectiveness on fuel use the air source heat pump seems
to win hands down.

It feels wrong to just have aircon in the shed because it is cheap to run;
I don't think I have ever been too hot because the insulated roof keeps
most of the sun away, the shed is shaded, and probably only needs heating
for less than half the year.

The kits linked to by Dennis seem to cost about £600. I would be saving,
say 10 pence per kWh (easier calculation) for electricity against normal
fan/radiant heating. So to get my money back I would have to heat the shed
for approximately (600 * 10) 6,000 kWhours.

{note - screw up in first run of the calculations. Forgot to use wattage
of heater.}

Which I think is not far off 10 hours a day for 2 years at 1 kWh or 5
hours per day of a 2kW fan heater.

Note that in the previous thread the calculation came out at needing 5kW
of heat to keep the shed at 21C when it was freezing outside. However that
was an extreme target as most times it wouldn't be at 21C nor would it be
freezing outside.

If this is correct then I need to work out how many 5 hour days I am
likely to spend in there.

If I were to spend 3 days a week over 6 months of the year, and only need
heating for 3 months of the year, then I would need heating for (365/4) *
(3/7) days per year. I work that out at 39 days a year.

Getting too late at night now, but if I am correct so far in my tortuous
working pay back would be (2 years) * (365/39) = 18.7 years.

So it looks as though an air source heat pump doesn't cost in for the shed
unless I am relegated to their for the rest of my active life and then
some. Or unless my calculations are well adrift.

Since it is already established that the stove is more expensive to run
than the heat pump and the installation of the chimney may be more
expensive than installing a heat pump then the wood burning stove would be
purely a vanity project.

Shame in some ways as having an air conditioned shed would be a definite
one up over the neighbours :-)

It does make the installation of air conditioning in the house look quite
attractive, though. Purely for cooling in the summer, though,

Cheers


Dave R



--
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On Sunday, 26 November 2017 22:01:04 UTC, David WE Roberts (Google) wrote:
This makes using a wood burner in the shed a pure vanity project.
So on pure cost effectiveness on fuel use the air source heat pump seems
to win hands down.
It does make the installation of air conditioning in the house look quite
attractive, though. Purely for cooling in the summer, though,

If the house and shed are close enough together could you use one outside unit and two inside units, one in the shed for winter warmth and the other in the house for summer cooling?

Or one of the type that works with an inside unit and 2 four-inch vents through the wall, and move it from house to shed in autumn and spring?

Also if you can run your aircon off solar electricity that may change the economics.

Owain

On 26/11/2017 22:01, David wrote:
Following on from a couple of recent threads, and using
https://www.confusedaboutenergy.co.u...ic-fuels/fuel-
prices
as a reference.

John Runn said "If you fitted heatpump aircon instead, then it would be a
third to a quarter of the price for normal resistive heating."

That would give an electricity cost of about (15.4/3) 5.1 pence per kWh.
Possibly down to under 4p per kWh if the better estimate was met.

This compares to 7.1 pence per kWh for wood bought by the ton.
Smokeless fuel is 6.3 pence per kWh when bought by the ton.

This makes using a wood burner in the shed a pure vanity project.

That does depend a bit on what you do in the shed... if its used for
woodworking any you have ready stream of wood offcuts, then that may
change things.

(same would apply if its a "man cave" and what you really want is nice
real fire to put your feet up in front of!)

FWIW, I heat most of my outbuildings using thermostatically controlled
fan heaters. However most of the time they are just ensuring that the
temp stays above the dew point to stop stuff getting damp or rusting.
They are also insulated to one degree or another. I won't need them to
be at a comfortable temperature most days - so low installation cost and
ease of install / use is the winner for my use pattern.

So on pure cost effectiveness on fuel use the air source heat pump seems
to win hands down.

It makes sense for frequent use spaces. Something like the split unit
heat pump that Richard installed in his office outbuilding:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...ir_Conditioner

makes lots of sense, since its in use most days, and will need cooling
and heating depending on the time of year.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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\================================================= ================/

On Sunday, 26 November 2017 22:01:04 UTC, David WE Roberts (Google) wrote:
Following on from a couple of recent threads, and using
https://www.confusedaboutenergy.co.u...ic-fuels/fuel-
prices
as a reference.

John Runn said "If you fitted heatpump aircon instead, then it would be a
third to a quarter of the price for normal resistive heating."

That would give an electricity cost of about (15.4/3) 5.1 pence per kWh.
Possibly down to under 4p per kWh if the better estimate was met.

This compares to 7.1 pence per kWh for wood bought by the ton.
Smokeless fuel is 6.3 pence per kWh when bought by the ton.

This makes using a wood burner in the shed a pure vanity project.

Propane bottle and radiant heater comes in at 15.6 pence per kWh so that
is more expensive than normal electricity.

So on pure cost effectiveness on fuel use the air source heat pump seems
to win hands down.

It feels wrong to just have aircon in the shed because it is cheap to run;
I don't think I have ever been too hot because the insulated roof keeps
most of the sun away, the shed is shaded, and probably only needs heating
for less than half the year.

The kits linked to by Dennis seem to cost about £600. I would be saving,
say 10 pence per kWh (easier calculation) for electricity against normal
fan/radiant heating. So to get my money back I would have to heat the shed
for approximately (600 * 10) 6,000 kWhours.

{note - screw up in first run of the calculations. Forgot to use wattage
of heater.}

Which I think is not far off 10 hours a day for 2 years at 1 kWh or 5
hours per day of a 2kW fan heater.

Note that in the previous thread the calculation came out at needing 5kW
of heat to keep the shed at 21C when it was freezing outside. However that
was an extreme target as most times it wouldn't be at 21C nor would it be
freezing outside.

If this is correct then I need to work out how many 5 hour days I am
likely to spend in there.

If I were to spend 3 days a week over 6 months of the year, and only need
heating for 3 months of the year, then I would need heating for (365/4) *
(3/7) days per year. I work that out at 39 days a year.

Getting too late at night now, but if I am correct so far in my tortuous
working pay back would be (2 years) * (365/39) = 18.7 years.

So it looks as though an air source heat pump doesn't cost in for the shed
unless I am relegated to their for the rest of my active life and then
some. Or unless my calculations are well adrift.

Since it is already established that the stove is more expensive to run
than the heat pump and the installation of the chimney may be more
expensive than installing a heat pump then the wood burning stove would be
purely a vanity project.

Shame in some ways as having an air conditioned shed would be a definite
one up over the neighbours :-)

It does make the installation of air conditioning in the house look quite
attractive, though. Purely for cooling in the summer, though,


Solid fuel stoves are notoriously inefficient. Traditional ones may be only 10% efficient. Plus all the labour needed.
They are only worthwhile if you can get free wood.

Of course anything that stays in the shed, say of an electronic type or
machinery may not respond well to being allowed to cool down and heat up
over such a large temperature range, so some background heating/cooling for
the sake of equipment might need to be factored in as well.
Brian

--
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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"David" wrote in message
...
Following on from a couple of recent threads, and using
https://www.confusedaboutenergy.co.u...ic-fuels/fuel-
prices
as a reference.

John Runn said "If you fitted heatpump aircon instead, then it would be a
third to a quarter of the price for normal resistive heating."

That would give an electricity cost of about (15.4/3) 5.1 pence per kWh.
Possibly down to under 4p per kWh if the better estimate was met.

This compares to 7.1 pence per kWh for wood bought by the ton.
Smokeless fuel is 6.3 pence per kWh when bought by the ton.

This makes using a wood burner in the shed a pure vanity project.

Propane bottle and radiant heater comes in at 15.6 pence per kWh so that
is more expensive than normal electricity.

So on pure cost effectiveness on fuel use the air source heat pump seems
to win hands down.

It feels wrong to just have aircon in the shed because it is cheap to run;
I don't think I have ever been too hot because the insulated roof keeps
most of the sun away, the shed is shaded, and probably only needs heating
for less than half the year.

The kits linked to by Dennis seem to cost about £600. I would be saving,
say 10 pence per kWh (easier calculation) for electricity against normal
fan/radiant heating. So to get my money back I would have to heat the shed
for approximately (600 * 10) 6,000 kWhours.

{note - screw up in first run of the calculations. Forgot to use wattage
of heater.}

Which I think is not far off 10 hours a day for 2 years at 1 kWh or 5
hours per day of a 2kW fan heater.

Note that in the previous thread the calculation came out at needing 5kW
of heat to keep the shed at 21C when it was freezing outside. However that
was an extreme target as most times it wouldn't be at 21C nor would it be
freezing outside.

If this is correct then I need to work out how many 5 hour days I am
likely to spend in there.

If I were to spend 3 days a week over 6 months of the year, and only need
heating for 3 months of the year, then I would need heating for (365/4) *
(3/7) days per year. I work that out at 39 days a year.

Getting too late at night now, but if I am correct so far in my tortuous
working pay back would be (2 years) * (365/39) = 18.7 years.

So it looks as though an air source heat pump doesn't cost in for the shed
unless I am relegated to their for the rest of my active life and then
some. Or unless my calculations are well adrift.

Since it is already established that the stove is more expensive to run
than the heat pump and the installation of the chimney may be more
expensive than installing a heat pump then the wood burning stove would be
purely a vanity project.

Shame in some ways as having an air conditioned shed would be a definite
one up over the neighbours :-)

It does make the installation of air conditioning in the house look quite
attractive, though. Purely for cooling in the summer, though,

Cheers


Dave R



--
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---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 7:18:51 AM UTC, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 26 November 2017 22:01:04 UTC, David WE Roberts (Google) wrote:
Following on from a couple of recent threads, and using
https://www.confusedaboutenergy.co.u...ic-fuels/fuel-
prices
as a reference.

John Runn said "If you fitted heatpump aircon instead, then it would be a
third to a quarter of the price for normal resistive heating."

That would give an electricity cost of about (15.4/3) 5.1 pence per kWh..
Possibly down to under 4p per kWh if the better estimate was met.

This compares to 7.1 pence per kWh for wood bought by the ton.
Smokeless fuel is 6.3 pence per kWh when bought by the ton.

This makes using a wood burner in the shed a pure vanity project.

Propane bottle and radiant heater comes in at 15.6 pence per kWh so that
is more expensive than normal electricity.

So on pure cost effectiveness on fuel use the air source heat pump seems
to win hands down.

It feels wrong to just have aircon in the shed because it is cheap to run;
I don't think I have ever been too hot because the insulated roof keeps
most of the sun away, the shed is shaded, and probably only needs heating
for less than half the year.

The kits linked to by Dennis seem to cost about £600. I would be saving,
say 10 pence per kWh (easier calculation) for electricity against normal
fan/radiant heating. So to get my money back I would have to heat the shed
for approximately (600 * 10) 6,000 kWhours.

{note - screw up in first run of the calculations. Forgot to use wattage
of heater.}

Which I think is not far off 10 hours a day for 2 years at 1 kWh or 5
hours per day of a 2kW fan heater.

Note that in the previous thread the calculation came out at needing 5kW
of heat to keep the shed at 21C when it was freezing outside. However that
was an extreme target as most times it wouldn't be at 21C nor would it be
freezing outside.

If this is correct then I need to work out how many 5 hour days I am
likely to spend in there.

If I were to spend 3 days a week over 6 months of the year, and only need
heating for 3 months of the year, then I would need heating for (365/4) *
(3/7) days per year. I work that out at 39 days a year.

Getting too late at night now, but if I am correct so far in my tortuous
working pay back would be (2 years) * (365/39) = 18.7 years.

So it looks as though an air source heat pump doesn't cost in for the shed
unless I am relegated to their for the rest of my active life and then
some. Or unless my calculations are well adrift.

Since it is already established that the stove is more expensive to run
than the heat pump and the installation of the chimney may be more
expensive than installing a heat pump then the wood burning stove would be
purely a vanity project.

Shame in some ways as having an air conditioned shed would be a definite
one up over the neighbours :-)

It does make the installation of air conditioning in the house look quite
attractive, though. Purely for cooling in the summer, though,


Solid fuel stoves are notoriously inefficient. Traditional ones may be only 10% efficient. Plus all the labour needed.
They are only worthwhile if you can get free wood.

lots of free wood around after recent storms

On 27/11/2017 12:20, fred wrote:

Solid fuel stoves are notoriously inefficient. Traditional ones may be only 10% efficient. Plus all the labour needed.
They are only worthwhile if you can get free wood.

lots of free wood around after recent storms

Not much freely available in inner London to feed the many wood burners
fitted when Victorian (and earlier) houses are renovated. (I sometimes
wonder if there's an untapped market for faux wood burners that *don't*
have lamps and electric heaters, but do have capacity for genuine ash.)

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

replying to David, Iggy wrote:
Well, I can't disagree AT ALL with heating AND
wonderful-marvelous-is-the-bees-knees cooling. However, for a nice, cheap,
never needs a Technician heating solution of somewhat small spaces, is a
Halogen light bulb heater. You can do like this "Low watt space heater EASY
BUILD" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWD56H4v6yM or you can just screw bulbs
into a bunch of sockets on a board and make it your top central lighting.
You'd just put a tiny fan next to the bulb-field to circulate the shed's air
for a very reasonable 500 to 600-watts. In other words, turn the shed into a
giant Easy Bake Oven.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...e-1252785-.htm

On 27/11/2017 18:14, Iggy wrote:
replying to David, Iggy wrote:
Well, I can't disagree AT ALL with heating AND
wonderful-marvelous-is-the-bees-knees cooling. However, for a nice, cheap,
never needs a Technician heating solution of somewhat small spaces, is a
Halogen light bulb heater. You can do like this "Low watt space heater EASY
BUILD" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWD56H4v6yM or you can just screw
bulbs
into a bunch of sockets on a board and make it your top central lighting.
You'd just put a tiny fan next to the bulb-field to circulate the shed's
air
for a very reasonable 500 to 600-watts. In other words, turn the shed
into a
giant Easy Bake Oven.


I must be missing something. A regular resistance heater converts all
the energy into heat, this converts the energy into heat and light.
Unless you need the light, how is a heater based on light bulbs better
than a regular resistance heater?

On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 15:01:14 -0800, spuorgelgoog wrote:

On Sunday, 26 November 2017 22:01:04 UTC, David WE Roberts (Google)
wrote:
This makes using a wood burner in the shed a pure vanity project.
So on pure cost effectiveness on fuel use the air source heat pump
seems to win hands down.
It does make the installation of air conditioning in the house look
quite attractive, though. Purely for cooling in the summer, though,

If the house and shed are close enough together could you use one
outside unit and two inside units, one in the shed for winter warmth and
the other in the house for summer cooling?

Or one of the type that works with an inside unit and 2 four-inch vents
through the wall, and move it from house to shed in autumn and spring?

Also if you can run your aircon off solar electricity that may change
the economics.

Owain

Nice thought, but shed is down the bottom of the garden.

Cheers


Dave R


--
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On Monday, 27 November 2017 18:33:41 UTC, David WE Roberts (Google) wrote:
Nice thought, but shed is down the bottom of the garden.

Perhaps you could get domestic permission to erect a shed about half-way, and then sneakily fill in the gaps?

Owain

wrote in message
...
On 27/11/2017 18:14, Iggy wrote:
replying to David, Iggy wrote:
Well, I can't disagree AT ALL with heating AND
wonderful-marvelous-is-the-bees-knees cooling. However, for a nice,
cheap,
never needs a Technician heating solution of somewhat small spaces, is a
Halogen light bulb heater. You can do like this "Low watt space heater
EASY
BUILD" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWD56H4v6yM or you can just screw
bulbs
into a bunch of sockets on a board and make it your top central lighting.
You'd just put a tiny fan next to the bulb-field to circulate the shed's
air
for a very reasonable 500 to 600-watts. In other words, turn the shed
into a
giant Easy Bake Oven.

I must be missing something.

Yes you are.

A regular resistance heater converts all the energy into heat, this
converts the energy into heat and light.

Yes.

Unless you need the light, how is a heater based on light bulbs better
than a regular resistance heater?

Much easier to change a bulb when one dies.

On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 10:56:45 -0800, spuorgelgoog wrote:

On Monday, 27 November 2017 18:33:41 UTC, David WE Roberts (Google)
wrote:
Nice thought, but shed is down the bottom of the garden.

Perhaps you could get domestic permission to erect a shed about
half-way, and then sneakily fill in the gaps?

Owain

Some years back now, but this is the Mother Of All Sheds (threads passim)
and that would involve covering the entire back garden in shed.

Fair enough, you might say, but this would almost certainly give the
planning department indigestion.

We also have other plans for the rest of the garden :-)

Cheers


Dave R


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"Rod Speed" Wrote in message:


wrote in message
...
On 27/11/2017 18:14, Iggy wrote:
replying to David, Iggy wrote:
Well, I can't disagree AT ALL with heating AND
wonderful-marvelous-is-the-bees-knees cooling. However, for a nice,
cheap,
never needs a Technician heating solution of somewhat small spaces, is a
Halogen light bulb heater. You can do like this "Low watt space heater
EASY
BUILD" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWD56H4v6yM or you can just screw
bulbs
into a bunch of sockets on a board and make it your top central lighting.
You'd just put a tiny fan next to the bulb-field to circulate the shed's
air
for a very reasonable 500 to 600-watts. In other words, turn the shed
into a
giant Easy Bake Oven.

I must be missing something.

Yes you are.

A regular resistance heater converts all the energy into heat, this
converts the energy into heat and light.

Yes.

Unless you need the light, how is a heater based on light bulbs better
than a regular resistance heater?

Much easier to change a bulb when one dies.



How often do you change a resistance heater element?
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

"jim" k wrote in message
.. .
"Rod Speed" Wrote in message:


wrote in message
...
On 27/11/2017 18:14, Iggy wrote:
replying to David, Iggy wrote:
Well, I can't disagree AT ALL with heating AND
wonderful-marvelous-is-the-bees-knees cooling. However, for a nice,
cheap,
never needs a Technician heating solution of somewhat small spaces, is
a
Halogen light bulb heater. You can do like this "Low watt space heater
EASY
BUILD" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWD56H4v6yM or you can just
screw
bulbs
into a bunch of sockets on a board and make it your top central
lighting.
You'd just put a tiny fan next to the bulb-field to circulate the
shed's
air
for a very reasonable 500 to 600-watts. In other words, turn the shed
into a
giant Easy Bake Oven.

I must be missing something.

Yes you are.

A regular resistance heater converts all the energy into heat, this
converts the energy into heat and light.

Yes.

Unless you need the light, how is a heater based on light bulbs better
than a regular resistance heater?

Much easier to change a bulb when one dies.



How often do you change a resistance heater element?

Had plenty of fan heaters die.

Only a fool uses anything else.

replying to bin, Iggy wrote:
Rod Speed's got it. Actually, the problem with a Resistance Heater is that
it's much more wattage and has a, comparatively, miniscule hot spot with no
buffer or heat exchanger. Even at 1500-watts a Resistance Heater Is only
effective for close proximity and takes very long to heat up a space's items
(heat soak), due to its lack of Volume Heat.

If he does something like the video with glass instead of ceramic, he gets
both light and heat by creating a heat exchanger...where mostly just the
outside surface heat is blown off but not much of the heat source is depleted,
creating a constant provision of steady heat. If he needs to adjust to lower
and higher demands, he just removes or re-installs bulbs (or unscrews
partially, if he opts for that convenience).

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...e-1252785-.htm

On Tuesday, 28 November 2017 01:44:07 UTC, Iggy wrote:
replying to bin, Iggy wrote:
Rod Speed's got it. Actually, the problem with a Resistance Heater is that
it's much more wattage and has a, comparatively, miniscule hot spot with no
buffer or heat exchanger. Even at 1500-watts a Resistance Heater Is only
effective for close proximity and takes very long to heat up a space's items
(heat soak), due to its lack of Volume Heat.

If he does something like the video with glass instead of ceramic, he gets
both light and heat by creating a heat exchanger...where mostly just the
outside surface heat is blown off but not much of the heat source is depleted,
creating a constant provision of steady heat. If he needs to adjust to lower
and higher demands, he just removes or re-installs bulbs (or unscrews
partially, if he opts for that convenience).

???

replying to tabbypurr, Iggy wrote:
You'll have to be a little more specific than that.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...e-1252785-.htm

On 28/11/2017 01:44, Iggy wrote:
replying to bin, Iggy wrote:

Rod Speed's got it.

and none of us want to catch it...

Actually, the problem with a Resistance Heater is that
it's much more wattage and has a, comparatively, miniscule hot spot with no
buffer or heat exchanger.

Not necessarily true. Storage heaters, immersion heaters etc all have
storage buffers.

Even at 1500-watts a Resistance Heater Is only
effective for close proximity and takes very long to heat up a space's
items
(heat soak), due to its lack of Volume Heat.

I get the impression you don't understand what a "resistance heater" is,
since none of that makes any sense.

For clarity, a resistance heater is basically *any* type of electric
heater (radiator, radiant element, fan heater, storage heater, inline
water heater, immersion heater etc).

The term really only differentiates from heat pump systems that use
electricity to move exiting heat from one place to another rather than
produce it in the first place.


If he does something like the video with glass instead of ceramic, he gets
both light and heat by creating a heat exchanger...where mostly just the
outside surface heat is blown off but not much of the heat source is
depleted,
creating a constant provision of steady heat. If he needs to adjust to
lower
and higher demands, he just removes or re-installs bulbs (or unscrews
partially, if he opts for that convenience).

Perhaps we can recommend a good physics book for you?

--
Cheers,

John.

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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 28/11/2017 01:44, Iggy wrote:
replying to bin, Iggy wrote:
Rod Speed's got it. Actually, the problem with a Resistance Heater is that
it's much more wattage and has a, comparatively, miniscule hot spot with no
buffer or heat exchanger. Even at 1500-watts a Resistance Heater Is only
effective for close proximity and takes very long to heat up a space's
items
(heat soak), due to its lack of Volume Heat.

If he does something like the video with glass instead of ceramic, he gets
both light and heat by creating a heat exchanger...where mostly just the
outside surface heat is blown off but not much of the heat source is
depleted,
creating a constant provision of steady heat. If he needs to adjust to
lower
and higher demands, he just removes or re-installs bulbs (or unscrews
partially, if he opts for that convenience).


I think we'll just agree to differ on that. Unless the light is needed a
fan heater will be more efficient.
(I don't know why you made the "Rod Speed" comment.)

replying to John Rumm, Iggy wrote:
Oh thank you Lord Heatwiser and sidekick Bin, I had no idea how brilliant you
are. I feel so graced by your omniscience of the world, I now realize I'm in.
I see the error of my ways in providing a life-long simple alternative. I
should've absolutely sat in the corner as the Masters parted the sea of
ignorance with their magnificent 1500, 3000, 4000 and more-more-more watts of
high expense frontal pleasure and backend sublime agony. Please forgive me, my
eyes have been opened and the illumination of such pure brilliance has freed
my soul from the eternal darkness.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...e-1252785-.htm

Iggy m wrote:

replying to John Rumm, Iggy wrote:
Oh thank you Lord Heatwiser and sidekick Bin, I had no idea how brilliant you
are. I feel so graced by your omniscience of the world, I now realize I'm in.
I see the error of my ways in providing a life-long simple alternative. I
should've absolutely sat in the corner as the Masters parted the sea of
ignorance with their magnificent 1500, 3000, 4000 and more-more-more watts of
high expense frontal pleasure and backend sublime agony. Please forgive me, my
eyes have been opened and the illumination of such pure brilliance has freed
my soul from the eternal darkness.
-- for full context, visit
https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...eating-for-she
d-and-stove-1252785-.htm

Good. Now you just need to get away from homeownershub.com and you can
start rehab.
--

Roger Hayter

Iggy m Wrote in
message:
replying to bin, Iggy wrote:
Rod Speed's got it. Actually, the problem with a Resistance Heater is that
it's much more wattage and has a, comparatively, miniscule hot spot with no
buffer or heat exchanger. Even at 1500-watts a Resistance Heater Is only
effective for close proximity and takes very long to heat up a space's items
(heat soak), due to its lack of Volume Heat.

If he does something like the video with glass instead of ceramic, he gets
both light and heat by creating a heat exchanger...where mostly just the
outside surface heat is blown off but not much of the heat source is depleted,
creating a constant provision of steady heat. If he needs to adjust to lower
and higher demands, he just removes or re-installs bulbs (or unscrews
partially, if he opts for that convenience).


More ******** then...
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

"Rod Speed" Wrote in message:


"jim" k wrote in message
.. .
"Rod Speed" Wrote in message:


wrote in message
...
On 27/11/2017 18:14, Iggy wrote:
replying to David, Iggy wrote:
Well, I can't disagree AT ALL with heating AND
wonderful-marvelous-is-the-bees-knees cooling. However, for a nice,
cheap,
never needs a Technician heating solution of somewhat small spaces, is
a
Halogen light bulb heater. You can do like this "Low watt space heater
EASY
BUILD" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWD56H4v6yM or you can just
screw
bulbs
into a bunch of sockets on a board and make it your top central
lighting.
You'd just put a tiny fan next to the bulb-field to circulate the
shed's
air
for a very reasonable 500 to 600-watts. In other words, turn the shed
into a
giant Easy Bake Oven.

I must be missing something.

Yes you are.

A regular resistance heater converts all the energy into heat, this
converts the energy into heat and light.

Yes.

Unless you need the light, how is a heater based on light bulbs better
than a regular resistance heater?

Much easier to change a bulb when one dies.



How often do you change a resistance heater element?

Had plenty of fan heaters die.

Only a fool uses anything else.

Shurely if one killed them that often,one would find a more
reliable heating method?

Only a complete fool would keep buying more of the same...
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 27/11/2017 18:24, wrote:
On 27/11/2017 18:14, Iggy wrote:
replying to David, Iggy wrote:
Well, I can't disagree AT ALL with heating AND
wonderful-marvelous-is-the-bees-knees cooling. However, for a nice,
cheap,
never needs a Technician heating solution of somewhat small spaces, is a
Halogen light bulb heater. You can do like this "Low watt space heater
EASY
BUILD" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWD56H4v6yM or you can just
screw bulbs
into a bunch of sockets on a board and make it your top central lighting.
You'd just put a tiny fan next to the bulb-field to circulate the
shed's air
for a very reasonable 500 to 600-watts. In other words, turn the shed
into a
giant Easy Bake Oven.


I must be missing something. A regular resistance heater converts all
the energy into heat, this converts the energy into heat and light.
Unless you need the light, how is a heater based on light bulbs better
than a regular resistance heater?

A conventional heater has to heat the air and heat is continuously being
lost to the environment. Spotlights (or better, the equivalent, purely
infra-red heaters) give you radiant heat directly onto your skin. You
can feel warm with them in a much cooler room and so save energy. They
are often used in factories, loading bays, etc.

SteveW

On Tuesday, 28 November 2017 23:36:50 UTC, Steve Walker wrote:
On 27/11/2017 18:24, wrote:
On 27/11/2017 18:14, Iggy wrote:
replying to David, Iggy wrote:
Well, I can't disagree AT ALL with heating AND
wonderful-marvelous-is-the-bees-knees cooling. However, for a nice,
cheap,
never needs a Technician heating solution of somewhat small spaces, is a
Halogen light bulb heater. You can do like this "Low watt space heater
EASY
BUILD" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWD56H4v6yM or you can just
screw bulbs
into a bunch of sockets on a board and make it your top central lighting.
You'd just put a tiny fan next to the bulb-field to circulate the
shed's air
for a very reasonable 500 to 600-watts. In other words, turn the shed
into a
giant Easy Bake Oven.


I must be missing something. A regular resistance heater converts all
the energy into heat, this converts the energy into heat and light.
Unless you need the light, how is a heater based on light bulbs better
than a regular resistance heater?

A conventional heater has to heat the air and heat is continuously being
lost to the environment. Spotlights (or better, the equivalent, purely
infra-red heaters) give you radiant heat directly onto your skin. You
can feel warm with them in a much cooler room and so save energy. They
are often used in factories, loading bays, etc.

SteveW

That kind of works as long as you're not after best comfort.

Even more economical to run is microwave heating. You can feel nicely warm in a 10C room with that on.


NT

"jim" k wrote in message
news
"Rod Speed" Wrote in message:


"jim" k wrote in message
.. .
"Rod Speed" Wrote in message:


wrote in message
...
On 27/11/2017 18:14, Iggy wrote:
replying to David, Iggy wrote:
Well, I can't disagree AT ALL with heating AND
wonderful-marvelous-is-the-bees-knees cooling. However, for a nice,
cheap,
never needs a Technician heating solution of somewhat small spaces,
is
a
Halogen light bulb heater. You can do like this "Low watt space
heater
EASY
BUILD" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWD56H4v6yM or you can just
screw
bulbs
into a bunch of sockets on a board and make it your top central
lighting.
You'd just put a tiny fan next to the bulb-field to circulate the
shed's
air
for a very reasonable 500 to 600-watts. In other words, turn the shed
into a
giant Easy Bake Oven.

I must be missing something.

Yes you are.

A regular resistance heater converts all the energy into heat, this
converts the energy into heat and light.

Yes.

Unless you need the light, how is a heater based on light bulbs better
than a regular resistance heater?

Much easier to change a bulb when one dies.



How often do you change a resistance heater element?

Had plenty of fan heaters die.

Only a fool uses anything else.

Shurely if one killed them that often,one would
find a more reliable heating method?

Not when you realise how much better
they work than non fan heaters.

Only a complete fool would keep buying more of the same...

Not when you realise how much better
they work than non fan heaters.

replying to Steve Walker, Iggy wrote:
There might be an equalizer there. The heat lamps can be costly and the
wattage may be quite a bit higher, but the heat's immediate. However, he'd
probably want 1 or 2 for his feet and legs and may need to turn around often
to get the backside bubbly.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...e-1252785-.htm

On 28/11/2017 23:36, Steve Walker wrote:
On 27/11/2017 18:24, wrote:
On 27/11/2017 18:14, Iggy wrote:
replying to David, Iggy wrote:
Well, I can't disagree AT ALL with heating AND
wonderful-marvelous-is-the-bees-knees cooling. However, for a nice,
cheap,
never needs a Technician heating solution of somewhat small spaces, is a
Halogen light bulb heater. You can do like this "Low watt space
heater EASY
BUILD" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWD56H4v6yM or you can just
screw bulbs
into a bunch of sockets on a board and make it your top central
lighting.
You'd just put a tiny fan next to the bulb-field to circulate the
shed's air
for a very reasonable 500 to 600-watts. In other words, turn the shed
into a
giant Easy Bake Oven.


I must be missing something. A regular resistance heater converts all
the energy into heat, this converts the energy into heat and light.
Unless you need the light, how is a heater based on light bulbs better
than a regular resistance heater?

A conventional heater has to heat the air and heat is continuously being
lost to the environment. Spotlights (or better, the equivalent, purely
infra-red heaters) give you radiant heat directly onto your skin. You
can feel warm with them in a much cooler room and so save energy. They
are often used in factories, loading bays, etc.

SteveW

Hmm, I'd not thought of that :-( I can see the merit of I-R for
heating one side of a person but it's not much good for heating an area.

On 29/11/2017 19:13, wrote:
On 28/11/2017 23:36, Steve Walker wrote:
On 27/11/2017 18:24, wrote:
On 27/11/2017 18:14, Iggy wrote:
replying to David, Iggy wrote:
Well, I can't disagree AT ALL with heating AND
wonderful-marvelous-is-the-bees-knees cooling. However, for a nice,
cheap,
never needs a Technician heating solution of somewhat small spaces,
is a
Halogen light bulb heater. You can do like this "Low watt space
heater EASY
BUILD" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWD56H4v6yM or you can just
screw bulbs
into a bunch of sockets on a board and make it your top central
lighting.
You'd just put a tiny fan next to the bulb-field to circulate the
shed's air
for a very reasonable 500 to 600-watts. In other words, turn the
shed into a
giant Easy Bake Oven.


I must be missing something. A regular resistance heater converts all
the energy into heat, this converts the energy into heat and light.
Unless you need the light, how is a heater based on light bulbs
better than a regular resistance heater?

A conventional heater has to heat the air and heat is continuously
being lost to the environment. Spotlights (or better, the equivalent,
purely infra-red heaters) give you radiant heat directly onto your
skin. You can feel warm with them in a much cooler room and so save
energy. They are often used in factories, loading bays, etc.

SteveW

Hmm, I'd not thought of that :-(Â*Â* I can see the merit of I-R for
heating one side of a person but it's not much good for heating an area.

That's the point really in the places they are used. They keep the
personnel comfortable, without having to heat the whole building.

SteveW

On 29/11/2017 19:30, Steve Walker wrote:
On 29/11/2017 19:13, wrote:
On 28/11/2017 23:36, Steve Walker wrote:
On 27/11/2017 18:24, wrote:
On 27/11/2017 18:14, Iggy wrote:
replying to David, Iggy wrote:
Well, I can't disagree AT ALL with heating AND
wonderful-marvelous-is-the-bees-knees cooling. However, for a nice,
cheap,
never needs a Technician heating solution of somewhat small spaces,
is a
Halogen light bulb heater. You can do like this "Low watt space
heater EASY
BUILD" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWD56H4v6yM or you can just
screw bulbs
into a bunch of sockets on a board and make it your top central
lighting.
You'd just put a tiny fan next to the bulb-field to circulate the
shed's air
for a very reasonable 500 to 600-watts. In other words, turn the
shed into a
giant Easy Bake Oven.


I must be missing something. A regular resistance heater converts
all the energy into heat, this converts the energy into heat and
light. Unless you need the light, how is a heater based on light
bulbs better than a regular resistance heater?

A conventional heater has to heat the air and heat is continuously
being lost to the environment. Spotlights (or better, the equivalent,
purely infra-red heaters) give you radiant heat directly onto your
skin. You can feel warm with them in a much cooler room and so save
energy. They are often used in factories, loading bays, etc.

SteveW

Hmm, I'd not thought of that :-( I can see the merit of I-R for
heating one side of a person but it's not much good for heating an area.

That's the point really in the places they are used. They keep the
personnel comfortable, without having to heat the whole building.

The type that work really well are the long wavelength gas fired tubes
you see in some shops / warehouses - usually high in the roof space,
they look like a thick black pipe with a reflector behind them. Being
above and far away they tend to bath you in IR rather like being out in
the the sun.

For domestic use you are usually stuck with the more traditional IR
radiant style element. Nice for directional heat like you get form a
fire, but not that good at making a space comfortable quickly. There are
also a bunch of halogen style heaters that give off quite a bit of
light. These don't really work that well IME, and are rather bright to
have in your eye line. They do heat a space slowly by convection.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Wed, 29 Nov 2017 19:30:57 +0000, Steve Walker
wrote:



A conventional heater has to heat the air and heat is continuously
being lost to the environment. Spotlights (or better, the equivalent,
purely infra-red heaters) give you radiant heat directly onto your
skin. You can feel warm with them in a much cooler room and so save
energy. They are often used in factories, loading bays, etc.

SteveW

Hmm, I'd not thought of that :-(** I can see the merit of I-R for
heating one side of a person but it's not much good for heating an area.

That's the point really in the places they are used. They keep the
personnel comfortable, without having to heat the whole building.

I've had one in my shed for some years, one of a pair I used
elsewhere one of which emits a much redder light than the other.
The shed one is the one with a more yellow light and the main
advantage is that the warming effect on me is fairly instant so is
fine for a short job. Longer term heating is by a home made heat pump
arrangement which is basically a beer cooler mounted outside and
trying to cool the surrounding air and the heat dump mounted in the
shed. Cheap to run but takes a while to start raising the temperature.

Suits my style of shed which is w/shop and tool store but a posh
shed used as a man cave would probably need something less industrial.
It is not recommended that such halogen tube heaters are mounted where
they can constantly shine direct into eyes.

G.Harman