I have a dimmer problem but will not bore you with the details unless
someone knows something about DALI.

--
Adam

On 17/11/2017 21:18, ARW wrote:
I have a dimmer problem but will not bore you with the details unless
someone knows something about DALI.


Salvador Domingo Felipe Jacinto DalÃ* i Domènech, Marquis of DalÃ* de
Púbol (11 May 1904 €“ 23 January 1989), known professionally as Salvador
DalÃ* (/ˈdÉ‘Ë�li, dÉ‘Ë�ˈli/[1][2] Catalan: [səɫβəˈðo ðəˈɫi]; Spanish:
[salβaˈðoɾ ðaˈli]), was a prominent Spanish surrealist artist born in
Figueres, Catalonia, Spain.

DalÃ* was a skilled draftsman, best known for the striking and bizarre
images in his surrealist work. His painterly skills are often attributed
to the influence of Renaissance masters.[3][4] His best-known work, The
Persistence of Memory, was completed in August 1931. DalÃ*'s expansive
artistic repertoire included film, sculpture, and photography, in
collaboration with a range of artists in a variety of media.

DalÃ* attributed his "love of everything that is gilded and excessive, my
passion for luxury and my love of oriental clothes"[5] to an "Arab
lineage", claiming that his ancestors were descended from the Moors.

DalÃ* was highly imaginative, and also enjoyed indulging in unusual and
grandiose behavior. His eccentric manner and attention-grabbing public
actions sometimes drew more attention than his artwork, to the dismay of
those who held his work in high esteem, and to the irritation of his
critics.[6][7]

Bill

In article ,
ARW wrote:
I have a dimmer problem but will not bore you with the details unless
someone knows something about DALI.

Yes, I know about DALI. I have a couple of working systems installed
and a copy of IEC-62386 on my desk.

Ask away!

Stephen Early
--

On 17/11/2017 21:29, Stephen Early wrote:
In article ,
ARW wrote:
I have a dimmer problem but will not bore you with the details unless
someone knows something about DALI.

Yes, I know about DALI. I have a couple of working systems installed
and a copy of IEC-62386 on my desk.

Ask away!


It's a basic set up repeated three times (ie one dimer controlling two
lights).

An Osram DALI MCU is "controlling" two lights that are both fed from a
iDrive Quattro CCL driver.

You can power up for the first time and both lights dim nicely together,
then after some time (say 5 minutes) one of the lights just turns on to
full brightness or both lights turn on to full brightness. The dimmer
and power to the lights has not been touched.




--
Adam

ARW Wrote in message:
I have a dimmer problem but will not bore you with the details unless
someone knows something about DALI.


World waits for Iggy/NT....
:-D
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 17/11/2017 22:13, jim wrote:
ARW Wrote in message:
I have a dimmer problem but will not bore you with the details unless
someone knows something about DALI.


World waits for Iggy/NT....
:-D


The non dimmable stuff looked OK once I had aimed the spotlights at the
right things. Font, alter, tabernacle, statue of some bloke with a beard.


--
Adam

In article ,
ARW wrote:
It's a basic set up repeated three times (ie one dimer controlling two
lights).

I assume these are all completely separate, i.e. the control wires
aren't shared between them?

An Osram DALI MCU is "controlling" two lights that are both fed from a
iDrive Quattro CCL driver.

You can power up for the first time and both lights dim nicely together,
then after some time (say 5 minutes) one of the lights just turns on to
full brightness or both lights turn on to full brightness. The dimmer
and power to the lights has not been touched.

It sounds like the lights are going into "system failure" mode - when
the control signal is missing for more than 450ms they change to the
pre-programmed "system failure" output level, which by default is
100%.

Is this affecting all three installations, or just one of them?

The way DALI works is that there's a current-limited power supply to
the control lines, providing between 12v and 20.5v with up to 250mA
available. The various parts of the system communicate digitally by
modulating their current draw from the DALI control lines to drop the
voltage; all DALI system components can sink at least 250mA from the
control lines. A voltage between 9.5v and 22.5v on the control lines
is interpreted as "high level" and anything below 6.5v is interpreted
as "low level".

If the voltage on the control lines at the driver drops below 6.5v for
more than 450ms at a time, the driver will go into system failure
mode.

How have you wired the systems? What size conductors have you used
for the control signals, and how long are they? The usual
recommendation for DALI is 1.5mm^2, going up to 2.5mm^2 for
particularly large systems or long cable runs. What's the voltage on
the control lines at the driver when the dimmer is not being touched?
How about at the dimmer?

I assume you are using the DALI power supply built into the Osram DALI
MCU (i.e. you're supplying 230v to the L and N connections on it)? If
not, where is the control line power supply coming from?

Stephen Early
--

"Stephen Early" wrote in message
...
In article ,
ARW wrote:
It's a basic set up repeated three times (ie one dimer controlling two
lights).

I assume these are all completely separate, i.e. the control wires
aren't shared between them?

An Osram DALI MCU is "controlling" two lights that are both fed from a
iDrive Quattro CCL driver.

You can power up for the first time and both lights dim nicely together,
then after some time (say 5 minutes) one of the lights just turns on to
full brightness or both lights turn on to full brightness. The dimmer
and power to the lights has not been touched.

It sounds like the lights are going into "system failure" mode - when
the control signal is missing for more than 450ms they change to the
pre-programmed "system failure" output level, which by default is
100%.

Is this affecting all three installations, or just one of them?

The way DALI works is that there's a current-limited power supply to
the control lines, providing between 12v and 20.5v with up to 250mA
available. The various parts of the system communicate digitally by
modulating their current draw from the DALI control lines to drop the
voltage; all DALI system components can sink at least 250mA from the
control lines. A voltage between 9.5v and 22.5v on the control lines
is interpreted as "high level" and anything below 6.5v is interpreted
as "low level".

If the voltage on the control lines at the driver drops below 6.5v for
more than 450ms at a time, the driver will go into system failure
mode.

How have you wired the systems? What size conductors have you used
for the control signals, and how long are they? The usual
recommendation for DALI is 1.5mm^2, going up to 2.5mm^2 for
particularly large systems or long cable runs. What's the voltage on
the control lines at the driver when the dimmer is not being touched?
How about at the dimmer?

I assume you are using the DALI power supply built into the Osram DALI
MCU (i.e. you're supplying 230v to the L and N connections on it)? If
not, where is the control line power supply coming from?

You need to wait for Dave, he'll know.

On 17/11/17 21:18, ARW wrote:
I have a dimmer problem but will not bore you with the details unless
someone knows something about DALI.

he painted some weird ****. Thats all I can remember.

On 18/11/2017 01:22, Stephen Early wrote:
In article ,
ARW wrote:
It's a basic set up repeated three times (ie one dimer controlling two
lights).

I assume these are all completely separate, i.e. the control wires
aren't shared between them?

An Osram DALI MCU is "controlling" two lights that are both fed from a
iDrive Quattro CCL driver.

You can power up for the first time and both lights dim nicely together,
then after some time (say 5 minutes) one of the lights just turns on to
full brightness or both lights turn on to full brightness. The dimmer
and power to the lights has not been touched.

It sounds like the lights are going into "system failure" mode - when
the control signal is missing for more than 450ms they change to the
pre-programmed "system failure" output level, which by default is
100%.

Is this affecting all three installations, or just one of them?

The way DALI works is that there's a current-limited power supply to
the control lines, providing between 12v and 20.5v with up to 250mA
available. The various parts of the system communicate digitally by
modulating their current draw from the DALI control lines to drop the
voltage; all DALI system components can sink at least 250mA from the
control lines. A voltage between 9.5v and 22.5v on the control lines
is interpreted as "high level" and anything below 6.5v is interpreted
as "low level".

If the voltage on the control lines at the driver drops below 6.5v for
more than 450ms at a time, the driver will go into system failure
mode.

How have you wired the systems? What size conductors have you used
for the control signals, and how long are they? The usual
recommendation for DALI is 1.5mm^2, going up to 2.5mm^2 for
particularly large systems or long cable runs. What's the voltage on
the control lines at the driver when the dimmer is not being touched?
How about at the dimmer?

I assume you are using the DALI power supply built into the Osram DALI
MCU (i.e. you're supplying 230v to the L and N connections on it)? If
not, where is the control line power supply coming from?


All 3 installations are doing the same thing.

The dimmer is also the DALI PSU

its this one

http://www.osram.com.au/media/resour...-rotary-dimmer

There is 17.5V at the DALI pair up to every light.

It's less than 100m to each driver and is 1.5mm^2.



--
Adam

In article ,
ARW wrote:
All 3 installations are doing the same thing.

The dimmer is also the DALI PSU

its this one

http://www.osram.com.au/media/resour...-rotary-dimmer

There is 17.5V at the DALI pair up to every light.

It's less than 100m to each driver and is 1.5mm^2.

That all sounds correct. I'd look at the drivers next, then. They
appear to be multi-protocol devices: is there a way to tell them to
ignore all inputs except for DALI? (I can't find a copy of their user
manual online, only a datasheet.) Is the DALI connection physically
separate from the DMX512 connection, or is it shared? Is there a DIP
switch setting to deactivate DMX512? Do you need to add a resistor
across the DMX512 input if it's unused? This might be a case of "ask
the manufacturer for advice" if the user manual doesn't say.

If you want to keep looking into what's happening on the DALI control
lines, the next step would be to get a DALI to USB interface (eg. the
Tridonic DALI-USB), connect it up and run the software that comes with
it that shows a log of all commands received. Unfortunately these are
a bit pricey (rip-off levels if you buy in the UK).

Stephen Early
--

On 18/11/2017 11:08, Stephen Early wrote:
In article ,
ARW wrote:
All 3 installations are doing the same thing.

The dimmer is also the DALI PSU

its this one

http://www.osram.com.au/media/resour...-rotary-dimmer

There is 17.5V at the DALI pair up to every light.

It's less than 100m to each driver and is 1.5mm^2.

That all sounds correct. I'd look at the drivers next, then. They
appear to be multi-protocol devices: is there a way to tell them to
ignore all inputs except for DALI? (I can't find a copy of their user
manual online, only a datasheet.) Is the DALI connection physically
separate from the DMX512 connection, or is it shared? Is there a DIP
switch setting to deactivate DMX512? Do you need to add a resistor
across the DMX512 input if it's unused? This might be a case of "ask
the manufacturer for advice" if the user manual doesn't say.

If you want to keep looking into what's happening on the DALI control
lines, the next step would be to get a DALI to USB interface (eg. the
Tridonic DALI-USB), connect it up and run the software that comes with
it that shows a log of all commands received. Unfortunately these are
a bit pricey (rip-off levels if you buy in the UK).



Swap the XXX for dam and email me. I'll send you the manual. You need to
be registered with them to get a copy.

And I have just looked up the price of a USB to RS 485 cable. It's a
good job I was sat down when I did.

Now tech support say that the DIP switch configuration is over ridden by
a DALI command, but I am going to try the resistor method.......

In article ,
ARW wrote:
Swap the XXX for dam and email me. I'll send you the manual. You need to
be registered with them to get a copy.

Ugh. I hate it when manufacturers do that!

And I have just looked up the price of a USB to RS 485 cable. It's a
good job I was sat down when I did.

USB to RS485 ought not to be too bad - they are fairly common. £1-2
on fleabay, or £20 for a good FTDI one from RS.

USB to DALI is a different matter! They price gouge because they can,
because they aren't commonly available. And probably because the
standards organisations charge a fortune for a copy of the standard,
too.

Now tech support say that the DIP switch configuration is over ridden by
a DALI command, but I am going to try the resistor method.......

Hmm. Overridden for how long, I wonder?

Stephen Early
--

On 17/11/2017 22:13, jim wrote:
ARW Wrote in message:
I have a dimmer problem but will not bore you with the details unless
someone knows something about DALI.


World waits for Iggy/NT....
:-D
According to the Osram page :-

"The installation of the DALI PCU is an easy as it gets:" :-)

On Sat, 18 Nov 2017 04:26:53 +0000, Tjoepstil wrote:

I have a dimmer problem but will not bore you with the details
unless
someone knows something about DALI.

he painted some weird ****. Thats all I can remember.

I visited the place in 1993 (SW China).

--
Cheers
Dave.