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Seems only a few months ago the UK law was invoked to give parliament a
say in the Brexit negotiations. Dreadful, says May etc - we need to keep our cards close to our chest when negotiating. Now it seems she wishes to do this via a public speech at Florence. Is this another example of 'strong and stable' government? -- *Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
we need to keep our cards close to our chest when negotiating. Before we *started* negotiating ... |
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On 21/09/2017 13:56, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 13:46:47 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: Seems only a few months ago the UK law was invoked to give parliament a say in the Brexit negotiations. Dreadful, says May etc - we need to keep our cards close to our chest when negotiating. Now it seems she wishes to do this via a public speech at Florence. This is after the EU has said - many times - that it doesn't negotiate by speeches. It's all moot anyway. Looking at my news feeds, absolutely no one is talking about it outside the UK. Its only a Westminster village thing. The rest of the country couldn't care a toss what is said in a speech as it means absolutely nothing. -- mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk |
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On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 12:56:55 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk
wrote: snip It's all moot anyway. Looking at my news feeds, absolutely no one is talking about it outside the UK. Funnily enough, I asked my mate in Denmark a couple of days ago if 'Brexit' ever came up in any conversations at work or home and he said 'no'. His only comment on it was the company he works for buys some parts for equipment they make from the UK and if we end up with a customs border back then it will be a big PITA (delays not money etc) for them and they may well look elsewhere (within the EU) for supply. Cheers, T i m |
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On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 13:46:47 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote: Seems only a few months ago the UK law was invoked to give parliament a say in the Brexit negotiations. I thought they were proposing to bypass parliament and let ministers make all the decisions. Dreadful, says May etc - we need to keep our cards close to our chest when negotiating. That's because they haven't a clue what they are doing. Now it seems she wishes to do this via a public speech at Florence. Is this another example of 'strong and stable' government? No. *Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional I tried growing up but didn't like it. |
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No its called playing the same game as the Eu I think. Rather clever I
thought. I wonder if we get a final say when the negotiations are considered complete and what happens if we then decide the package is unacceptable will they let us back in again? I maintain that the EU should have been in before the referendum to tell the truth rather than the over the top panic merchants running the in and out campaigns at the time. How can a country decide when nobody believes anyone? Brian -- ----- - This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please! "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... Seems only a few months ago the UK law was invoked to give parliament a say in the Brexit negotiations. Dreadful, says May etc - we need to keep our cards close to our chest when negotiating. Now it seems she wishes to do this via a public speech at Florence. Is this another example of 'strong and stable' government? -- *Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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On 21/09/2017 17:20, Brian Gaff wrote:
I maintain that the EU should have been in before the referendum to tell the truth Do you mean that you couldn't be bothered to read the documentation on the future of the EU that the commission produced? I think that Cameron told the Commissioners to keep very quiet during the run up to the referendum in case their comments prejudiced the UK population against the EU. I find it strange that some people are willing to believe that EU representatives will always tell the truth whereas our own politicians are completely untrustworthy. -- mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk |
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In article , Jethro_uk
writes On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 13:46:47 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: Seems only a few months ago the UK law was invoked to give parliament a say in the Brexit negotiations. Dreadful, says May etc - we need to keep our cards close to our chest when negotiating. Now it seems she wishes to do this via a public speech at Florence. This is after the EU has said - many times - that it doesn't negotiate by speeches. But they do - all the time. It's all moot anyway. Looking at my news feeds, absolutely no one is talking about it outside the UK. -- bert |
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Brian Gaff wrote
No its called playing the same game as the Eu I think. Rather clever I thought. We'll see if anyone takes any noticed. Unlikely IMO. I wonder if we get a final say when the negotiations are considered complete Bet you dont given the massive surprise she got when she called a general election. Bet she has decided you lot are far to unpredictable to ask again. Corse that assumes that she is still driving the Tory bus by then. If its Boris, anything is possible, including tossing a coin quite literally. and what happens if we then decide the package is unacceptable will they let us back in again? Yep, but they would, but maybe after punishing Britain for ****ing them around by removing some of the concessions etc and if they are particularly bloody minded making Britain join the eurozone and schengen etc. They'd love to have all that money keeping on pouring in. I maintain that the EU should have been in before the referendum to tell the truth There is no 'truth' to tell on stuff like whether the eurozone will implode etc. Its always going to be an opinion which may or may not be accurate. rather than the over the top panic merchants running the in and out campaigns at the time. How can a country decide when nobody believes anyone? Thats always true of any major political choice. The plow**** and his ilk will always believe that anything the torys say is lies and that they will **** over everyone but the toffs every chance they get. Thats the way politics is. "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... Seems only a few months ago the UK law was invoked to give parliament a say in the Brexit negotiations. Dreadful, says May etc - we need to keep our cards close to our chest when negotiating. Now it seems she wishes to do this via a public speech at Florence. Is this another example of 'strong and stable' government? -- *Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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On 21/09/17 13:56, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 13:46:47 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: Seems only a few months ago the UK law was invoked to give parliament a say in the Brexit negotiations. Dreadful, says May etc - we need to keep our cards close to our chest when negotiating. Now it seems she wishes to do this via a public speech at Florence. This is after the EU has said - many times - that it doesn't negotiate by speeches. Usually in a speech they are making about Brexit negotiations. It's all moot anyway. Looking at my news feeds, absolutely no one is talking about it outside the UK. -- Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed. |
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
a public speech at Florence Anyone know /why/ this is in Florence, if as mentioned, nobody in particular from .eu is going to be there? |
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On 22/09/17 14:26, Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote: a public speech at Florence Anyone know /why/ this is in Florence, if as mentioned, nobody in particular from .eu is going to be there? It's got particularly good shoe shops, and is rather nice at this time of year. -- But what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an hypothesis! Mary Wollstonecraft |
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In article ,
Tim Streater wrote: In article , pamela wrote: Of course the UK imports more EU goods than the other way around. However, the pro-EU states seem prepared to accept this loss of income if it teaches the lesson that leavers, now and in the future, will incur a financial cost based on principle not logic. Exactly as I quoted Yanis Varoufakis as having said on BBCR4Today the other morning. He understands the ****ish behaviour of the EU even if Remoaners here don't. Only one comment needed about Varoufakis. Physician heal thyself. -- *Income tax service - Weve got what it takes to take what you've got. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 13:46:47 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Is this another example of 'strong and stable' government? More like weak & feeble, Dave. -- This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition. |
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In article ,
Tim Streater wrote: In article , pamela wrote: On 16:22 22 Sep 2017, Tim Streater wrote: In article , pamela wrote: Of course the UK imports more EU goods than the other way around. However, the pro-EU states seem prepared to accept this loss of income if it teaches the lesson that leavers, now and in the future, will incur a financial cost based on principle not logic. Exactly as I quoted Yanis Varoufakis as having said on BBCR4Today the other morning. He understands the ****ish behaviour of the EU even if Remoaners here don't. I didn't hear Varoufakisc on the radio but I do recall how Varoufakis felt Greece was too big to fail and that Germany was owed too much money to allow Greece to go bankrupt. He said that their intransigent behaviour of the EU was because they are scared of making leaving appear too easy and is "intended as a warning to the riff-raff of the EU, such as Greece, Portugal, Spain, ...". His words. You put Spain and Portugal in the same economic state as Greece? Why not Eire too? But I take it buy your support for Varoufakis you approve of the way the Greek economy is run? -- *42.7% of statistics are made up. Sorry, that should read 47.2% * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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On 22/09/2017 16:22, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , pamela wrote: Of course the UK imports more EU goods than the other way around.* However, the pro-EU states seem prepared to accept this loss of income if it teaches the lesson that leavers, now and in the future, will incur a financial cost based on principle not logic. Exactly as I quoted Yanis Varoufakis as having said on BBCR4Today the other morning. He understands the ****ish behaviour of the EU even if Remoaners here don't. I think some Remoaners revel in such EU behaviour. MM comes to mind with his German license. He'd love to sell out the UK to the EU. RMC isn't far behind, saying that continued payments to the EU is a 'bung' yet historically supported such payments when convenient to do so. |
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In article ,
Fredxxx wrote: On 22/09/2017 16:22, Tim Streater wrote: In article , pamela wrote: Of course the UK imports more EU goods than the other way around. However, the pro-EU states seem prepared to accept this loss of income if it teaches the lesson that leavers, now and in the future, will incur a financial cost based on principle not logic. Exactly as I quoted Yanis Varoufakis as having said on BBCR4Today the other morning. He understands the ****ish behaviour of the EU even if Remoaners here don't. I think some Remoaners revel in such EU behaviour. Unlike you optimists, the EU are behaving pretty well as they said they would - and remainers predicted - before the referendum. So basically you've been proved to be wrong saying they's simply roll over and give in to the UK, as 'they need us more than we need them' and other such vain predictions. MM comes to mind with his German license. He'd love to sell out the UK to the EU. RMC isn't far behind, saying that continued payments to the EU is a 'bung' yet historically supported such payments when convenient to do so. Just for once take your blinkers off and look at things from the other side's point of view. This isn't a fooking football match. -- *Nostalgia isn't what is used to be. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Tim Streater wrote: In article , pamela wrote: On 16:22 22 Sep 2017, Tim Streater wrote: In article , pamela wrote: Of course the UK imports more EU goods than the other way around. However, the pro-EU states seem prepared to accept this loss of income if it teaches the lesson that leavers, now and in the future, will incur a financial cost based on principle not logic. Exactly as I quoted Yanis Varoufakis as having said on BBCR4Today the other morning. He understands the ****ish behaviour of the EU even if Remoaners here don't. I didn't hear Varoufakisc on the radio but I do recall how Varoufakis felt Greece was too big to fail and that Germany was owed too much money to allow Greece to go bankrupt. He said that their intransigent behaviour of the EU was because they are scared of making leaving appear too easy and is "intended as a warning to the riff-raff of the EU, such as Greece, Portugal, Spain, ...". His words. You put Spain and Portugal in the same economic state as Greece? Why not Eire too? But I take it buy your support for Varoufakis you approve of the way the Greek economy is run? Varoufakis was not in charge of the Greek economy when the problem was allowed to happen he was just in charge when a solution was being sought and he is right Leaving the Greek people in penury for 20 years, as an alternative to simply forgoing the debt, is not going to get the rEU its money back Sooner or later they will realise that it has to be written off. tim |
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"pamela" wrote in message ... On 10:28 23 Sep 2017, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , Fredxxx wrote: On 22/09/2017 16:22, Tim Streater wrote: In article , pamela wrote: Of course the UK imports more EU goods than the other way around. However, the pro-EU states seem prepared to accept this loss of income if it teaches the lesson that leavers, now and in the future, will incur a financial cost based on principle not logic. Exactly as I quoted Yanis Varoufakis as having said on BBCR4Today the other morning. He understands the ****ish behaviour of the EU even if Remoaners here don't. I think some Remoaners revel in such EU behaviour. Unlike you optimists, the EU are behaving pretty well as they said they would - and remainers predicted - before the referendum. So basically you've been proved to be wrong saying they's simply roll over and give in to the UK, as 'they need us more than we need them' and other such vain predictions. That's exactly so. The EU is puting forward an experienced team of smooth and slippery negotiators who are starting from a position of strength whereas our negotiators, such as Boris Johnson, seem to trumpet their shambolic amateurism. The EU does not need an easy British exit more than it needs future cohesion which it will ensure by creating a difficult exit for Britain. To this end the EU is prepared to fund any financial losses to itself. Theresa May is now stalling for time because the outcome is going to be messy and unpopular, just a the Remainers always expected. all the more reason to get the messy part over ASAP and move on to the taking advantage of the "wins" tim |
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Dave Plowman wrote:
You put Spain and Portugal in the same economic state as Greece? Why not Eire too? I seem to remember PIGS (Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain and variations thereof) was a moniker for countries most under pressure in the financial crisis and possible candidates to exit the Eurozone? |
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On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 12:34:59 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote: In article , pamela wrote: On 10:28 23 Sep 2017, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , Fredxxx wrote: On 22/09/2017 16:22, Tim Streater wrote: In article , pamela wrote: Of course the UK imports more EU goods than the other way around. However, the pro-EU states seem prepared to accept this loss of income if it teaches the lesson that leavers, now and in the future, will incur a financial cost based on principle not logic. Exactly as I quoted Yanis Varoufakis as having said on BBCR4Today the other morning. He understands the ****ish behaviour of the EU even if Remoaners here don't. I think some Remoaners revel in such EU behaviour. Unlike you optimists, the EU are behaving pretty well as they said they would - and remainers predicted - before the referendum. So basically you've been proved to be wrong saying they's simply roll over and give in to the UK, as 'they need us more than we need them' and other such vain predictions. That's exactly so. The EU is puting forward an experienced team of smooth and slippery negotiators who are starting from a position of strength whereas our negotiators, such as Boris Johnson, seem to trumpet their shambolic amateurism. The EU does not need an easy British exit more than it needs future cohesion which it will ensure by creating a difficult exit for Britain. To this end the EU is prepared to fund any financial losses to itself. Which is essentially what Varoufakis was saying. Theresa May is now stalling for time because the outcome is going to be messy and unpopular, just a the Remainers always expected. Not that this alters the case for leaving one iota. True. There was never a good case for leaving the EU and even less now. Delaying jumping off the cliff isn't going to change the eventual outcome. International confidence in the UK is dropping all the time and several agencies have downgraded the UK's credit rating as a result. The fact that the EU would do this merely confirms why we should be leaving. No. EU cohesion is more important than one country who are trying to leave. The EU recognise how stupid the UK is at the moment. The little englanders have sold you a dud. And the UK negociators haven't a clue what they are doing. |
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On 23/09/17 11:36, pamela wrote:
The EU is puting forward an experienced team of smooth and slippery negotiators who are starting from a position of strength whereas our negotiators, such as Boris Johnson, seem to trumpet their shambolic amateurism. LOL! I'd hate to see what shambolic EU negotiators really look like. even more than Id love to see your face if you ever stumbled on what is really going on. You wouldn't believe it of course. |
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On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 13:15:19 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote: In article , Mark wrote: On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 12:34:59 +0100, Tim Streater wrote: Not that this alters the case for leaving one iota. True. There was never a good case for leaving the EU and even less now. Delaying jumping off the cliff isn't going to change the eventual outcome. International confidence in the UK is dropping all the time and several agencies have downgraded the UK's credit rating as a result. The fact that the EU would do this merely confirms why we should be leaving. No. EU cohesion is more important than one country who are trying to leave. The EU recognise how stupid the UK is at the moment. The little englanders have sold you a dud. And the UK negociators haven't a clue what they are doing. Don't be silly. If the EU can only be held together by threats and bullying then it should be dissolved altogether and new arrangements made. Oh dear. You seem to be among those who think the EU should do exactly what the UK tells it to. The EU has never been a club for the UK to control. It's about cooperation - which it is not getting much from the UK now. What we're about to get now is the worst of both "worlds": We'll still be paying large sums of money to the EU but getting nothing back and having no say over EU rules. The problem is not so much having an EU, it's *this* EU, this *corrupt* and *undemocratic* EU. It's no less democratic and corrupt than the UK political system, better in fact. And FYI, there aren't any "little englanders", and they haven't sold me anything; I've known about how unfit for purpose the EU is for many years. From your posts you seem to be a "little englander" based on your prejudices. |
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pamela wrote in news:XnsA7F98EF92106CD4AM2@
81.171.92.183: On 13:15 23 Sep 2017, Tim Streater wrote: In article , Mark wrote: On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 12:34:59 +0100, Tim Streater wrote: Not that this alters the case for leaving one iota. True. There was never a good case for leaving the EU and even less now. Delaying jumping off the cliff isn't going to change the eventual outcome. International confidence in the UK is dropping all the time and several agencies have downgraded the UK's credit rating as a result. The fact that the EU would do this merely confirms why we should be leaving. No. EU cohesion is more important than one country who are trying to leave. The EU recognise how stupid the UK is at the moment. The little englanders have sold you a dud. And the UK negociators haven't a clue what they are doing. Don't be silly. If the EU can only be held together by threats and bullying then it should be dissolved altogether and new arrangements made. The problem is not so much having an EU, it's *this* EU, this *corrupt* and *undemocratic* EU. And FYI, there aren't any "little englanders", and they haven't sold me anything; I've known about how unfit for purpose the EU is for many years. Little Englanders are very much alive and kicking. They are Farage and Johnson's supporters. These Litle Englanders seem to forget how, for decades after the war Britain slipped behind it's European neighbours economically and was known as the sick man of Europe. The Little Englanders opposed change and in particular change the way the Europeans were doing. In the end, the loss was ours and we had to spend decades catching up as best as we could. Anyone who hasn't got **** for brains knows that Britain should stay in the EU. I don't even argue the point because it's so obvious. Harry |
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In article ,
pamela wrote: Theresa May is now stalling for time because the outcome is going to be messy and unpopular, just a the Remainers always expected. Very true. And is protecting her arse by the extra two years taking us just about to the end of this parliament. Leaving sorting out the mess to someone else. -- *Where do forest rangers go to "get away from it all?" Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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In article , Tim Streater
wrote: He said that their intransigent behaviour of the EU was because they are scared of making leaving appear too easy and is "intended as a warning to the riff-raff of the EU, such as Greece, Portugal, Spain, ...". His words. You put Spain and Portugal in the same economic state as Greece? Why not Eire too? Can't you read, Our Dave? I wasn't putting Spain and Portugal anywhere. I was just quoting what Varoufakis said. I even said "his words" just to make it more obvious for the mentally challenged. Only the mentally challenged quote someone with no comment unless they agree with them. -- *Rehab is for quitters. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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In article ,
Andy Burns wrote: Dave Plowman wrote: You put Spain and Portugal in the same economic state as Greece? Why not Eire too? I seem to remember PIGS (Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain and variations thereof) was a moniker for countries most under pressure in the financial crisis and possible candidates to exit the Eurozone? And Ireland has seen the light and has no wish to leave the EU. Pity we've been so stupid. -- *The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on my list. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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"Andy Burns" wrote in message ... Dave Plowman wrote: You put Spain and Portugal in the same economic state as Greece? Why not Eire too? I seem to remember PIGS (Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain and you missed an "I" out tim |
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Andy Burns wrote: Dave Plowman wrote: You put Spain and Portugal in the same economic state as Greece? Why not Eire too? I seem to remember PIGS (Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain and variations thereof) was a moniker for countries most under pressure in the financial crisis and possible candidates to exit the Eurozone? And Ireland has seen the light and has no wish to leave the EU because unlike us it hasn't been give a big bill to pay for the past 30 years, but has instead been given handouts Can't you see the difference here? tim |
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"Harold Davis" wrote in message ... pamela wrote in news:XnsA7F98EF92106CD4AM2@ 81.171.92.183: On 13:15 23 Sep 2017, Tim Streater wrote: In article , Mark wrote: On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 12:34:59 +0100, Tim Streater wrote: Not that this alters the case for leaving one iota. True. There was never a good case for leaving the EU and even less now. Delaying jumping off the cliff isn't going to change the eventual outcome. International confidence in the UK is dropping all the time and several agencies have downgraded the UK's credit rating as a result. The fact that the EU would do this merely confirms why we should be leaving. No. EU cohesion is more important than one country who are trying to leave. The EU recognise how stupid the UK is at the moment. The little englanders have sold you a dud. And the UK negociators haven't a clue what they are doing. Don't be silly. If the EU can only be held together by threats and bullying then it should be dissolved altogether and new arrangements made. The problem is not so much having an EU, it's *this* EU, this *corrupt* and *undemocratic* EU. And FYI, there aren't any "little englanders", and they haven't sold me anything; I've known about how unfit for purpose the EU is for many years. Little Englanders are very much alive and kicking. They are Farage and Johnson's supporters. These Litle Englanders seem to forget how, for decades after the war Britain slipped behind it's European neighbours economically and was known as the sick man of Europe. The Little Englanders opposed change and in particular change the way the Europeans were doing. In the end, the loss was ours and we had to spend decades catching up as best as we could. Anyone who hasn't got **** for brains knows that Britain should stay in the EU. I don't even argue the point because it's so obvious. but it ****ing well isn't and insulating the opposition doesn't win you the argument You actually have to make cogent points tim |
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"tim..." wrote in message ... "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Tim Streater wrote: In article , pamela wrote: On 16:22 22 Sep 2017, Tim Streater wrote: In article , pamela wrote: Of course the UK imports more EU goods than the other way around. However, the pro-EU states seem prepared to accept this loss of income if it teaches the lesson that leavers, now and in the future, will incur a financial cost based on principle not logic. Exactly as I quoted Yanis Varoufakis as having said on BBCR4Today the other morning. He understands the ****ish behaviour of the EU even if Remoaners here don't. I didn't hear Varoufakisc on the radio but I do recall how Varoufakis felt Greece was too big to fail and that Germany was owed too much money to allow Greece to go bankrupt. He said that their intransigent behaviour of the EU was because they are scared of making leaving appear too easy and is "intended as a warning to the riff-raff of the EU, such as Greece, Portugal, Spain, ...". His words. You put Spain and Portugal in the same economic state as Greece? Why not Eire too? But I take it buy your support for Varoufakis you approve of the way the Greek economy is run? Varoufakis was not in charge of the Greek economy when the problem was allowed to happen he was just in charge when a solution was being sought and he is right Leaving the Greek people in penury for 20 years, as an alternative to simply forgoing the debt, is not going to get the rEU its money back But it already has forced them to stop being as profligate with borrowed money as they had been in the past. Sooner or later they will realise that it has to be written off. Yes, but they have already made a hell of a difference to running up more and more debt. |
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"Mark" wrote in message ... On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 13:15:19 +0100, Tim Streater wrote: In article , Mark wrote: On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 12:34:59 +0100, Tim Streater wrote: Not that this alters the case for leaving one iota. True. There was never a good case for leaving the EU and even less now. Delaying jumping off the cliff isn't going to change the eventual outcome. International confidence in the UK is dropping all the time and several agencies have downgraded the UK's credit rating as a result. The fact that the EU would do this merely confirms why we should be leaving. No. EU cohesion is more important than one country who are trying to leave. The EU recognise how stupid the UK is at the moment. The little englanders have sold you a dud. And the UK negociators haven't a clue what they are doing. Don't be silly. If the EU can only be held together by threats and bullying then it should be dissolved altogether and new arrangements made. Oh dear. You seem to be among those who think the EU should do exactly what the UK tells it to. Nope, just allow it to have what all but 3 of these have. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe...ade_agreements The EU has never been a club for the UK to control. No one wants to control the EU. It's about cooperation The EU isnt. Its actually about their way or the highway with stuff like the eurozone, schengen, unelected bureaucrats deciding policy etc etc etc. - which it is not getting much from the UK now. Because the majority who bothered to vote voted to leave. You get to like that or lump it. What we're about to get now is the worst of both "worlds": Bull**** on deciding who can come to the country alone. We'll still be paying large sums of money to the EU Bull****. but getting nothing back More bull**** on deciding who gets to move to Britain alone. and having no say over EU rules. Britain gets no say on EU rules now. It got no say on new joiners being forced to join the eurozone, on the free movement of EU citizens within the EU, or even on whether accept its quota of illegals. The problem is not so much having an EU, it's *this* EU, this *corrupt* and *undemocratic* EU. It's no less democratic and corrupt than the UK political system, Corse its much less democratic when the EP cant even write its own legislation and can only vote on whether to accept or reject what unelected bureaucrats have presented and can't even sack one of them, it has to sack the whole lot if its ****ed off enough. better in fact. Even sillier than you usually manage, and that's saying something. And FYI, there aren't any "little englanders", and they haven't sold me anything; I've known about how unfit for purpose the EU is for many years. From your posts you seem to be a "little englander" based on your prejudices. He can't when he has always said that the EEC was a great idea but that the EU isnt on quite a bit of the detail they force on countrys that are considering joining. |
P**s up and brewery.
On 23/09/17 18:19, pamela wrote:
On 14:05 23 Sep 2017, Harold Davis wrote: pamela wrote in news:XnsA7F98EF92106CD4AM2@ 81.171.92.183: On 13:15 23 Sep 2017, Tim Streater wrote: In article , Mark wrote: On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 12:34:59 +0100, Tim Streater wrote: Not that this alters the case for leaving one iota. True. There was never a good case for leaving the EU and even less now. Delaying jumping off the cliff isn't going to change the eventual outcome. International confidence in the UK is dropping all the time and several agencies have downgraded the UK's credit rating as a result. The fact that the EU would do this merely confirms why we should be leaving. No. EU cohesion is more important than one country who are trying to leave. The EU recognise how stupid the UK is at the moment. The little englanders have sold you a dud. And the UK negociators haven't a clue what they are doing. Don't be silly. If the EU can only be held together by threats and bullying then it should be dissolved altogether and new arrangements made. The problem is not so much having an EU, it's *this* EU, this *corrupt* and *undemocratic* EU. And FYI, there aren't any "little englanders", and they haven't sold me anything; I've known about how unfit for purpose the EU is for many years. Little Englanders are very much alive and kicking. They are Farage and Johnson's supporters. These Litle Englanders seem to forget how, for decades after the war Britain slipped behind it's European neighbours economically and was known as the sick man of Europe. The Little Englanders opposed change and in particular change the way the Europeans were doing. In the end, the loss was ours and we had to spend decades catching up as best as we could. Anyone who hasn't got **** for brains knows that Britain should stay in the EU. I don't even argue the point because it's so obvious. Harry The Leavers now need to prove their original claims that it will be like a picnic with sweets for everybody. That was never the claim. Teh claim was that it would liberate hardworking people to make things better, not that lazy lefty****s would get a free ride. -- Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas? Josef Stalin |
P**s up and brewery.
"pamela" wrote in message ... On 13:15 23 Sep 2017, Tim Streater wrote: In article , Mark wrote: On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 12:34:59 +0100, Tim Streater wrote: Not that this alters the case for leaving one iota. True. There was never a good case for leaving the EU and even less now. Delaying jumping off the cliff isn't going to change the eventual outcome. International confidence in the UK is dropping all the time and several agencies have downgraded the UK's credit rating as a result. The fact that the EU would do this merely confirms why we should be leaving. No. EU cohesion is more important than one country who are trying to leave. The EU recognise how stupid the UK is at the moment. The little englanders have sold you a dud. And the UK negociators haven't a clue what they are doing. Don't be silly. If the EU can only be held together by threats and bullying then it should be dissolved altogether and new arrangements made. The problem is not so much having an EU, it's *this* EU, this *corrupt* and *undemocratic* EU. And FYI, there aren't any "little englanders", and they haven't sold me anything; I've known about how unfit for purpose the EU is for many years. Little Englanders are very much alive and kicking. They are Farage and Johnson's supporters. These Litle Englanders seem to forget how, for decades after the war Britain slipped behind it's European neighbours economically and was known as the sick man of Europe. Because the war had been so expensive. The Little Englanders opposed change Like hell they did with the slum clearances and council housing. and in particular change the way the Europeans were doing. In fact de Gaulle refused to allow Britain to join and Britain did join after he had died. In the end, the loss was ours Yes, but not due to little englanders. and we had to spend decades catching up as best as we could. Yes, but not due to little englanders. |
P**s up and brewery.
"Rod Speed" wrote in news:f2o5f8Flgs7U1
@mid.individual.net: "pamela" wrote in message ... In fact de Gaulle refused to allow Britain to join and Britain did join after he had died. Because the Etonian elite (who had a majority in Eden's cabinet) decided not to unite with France (had that great opportunity been taken up, there probably would have been no EEC the following year) and threw their lot in with the US instead. De Gaulle's position is far more often quoted than the reason for it - the ****ing idiotic policy of the British Tory government towards France and its compradore Atlanticist policy which was backed by Labour but which still hasn't been put to a vote. In today's changed circumstances, a Britain outside of the EU would have no friends, would be even weaker relative to the foreign power that keeps military bases here, and would be totally up **** creek without a paddle, however much Theresa May - the rival of Eden and Macmillan for sheer incompetence - goes to India and the UAE with a begging bowl. Funny money from such places may keep the Tory party afloat but it won't keep Britain afloat. There's a difference. For God's sake, stay in the EU already. Harry |
P**s up and brewery.
"tim..." wrote in message ... "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Andy Burns wrote: Dave Plowman wrote: You put Spain and Portugal in the same economic state as Greece? Why not Eire too? I seem to remember PIGS (Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain and variations thereof) was a moniker for countries most under pressure in the financial crisis and possible candidates to exit the Eurozone? And Ireland has seen the light and has no wish to leave the EU because unlike us it hasn't been give a big bill to pay for the past 30 years, but has instead been given handouts And hasn't seen hordes of EUians pouring into their country and in fact ****ed up their economy so very comprehensively that hordes of them had to leave because their economy was so ****ed. Can't you see the difference here? |
P**s up and brewery.
Harold Davis wrote in
: "Rod Speed" wrote in news:f2o5f8Flgs7U1 @mid.individual.net: "pamela" wrote in message ... For God's sake, stay in the EU already. EU membership has never been a problem in Britain. If people are against unnecessary regulation, they'd be better off picketing their local town hall, but the tabloids have never pointed them in that direction. EU membership was voted against mainly by rednecks who probably couldn't even name the EU's principal executive body but who wanted to air their (often justified) grievances about real problems that have been associated with immigration for about 40 years and which continue to build. The elite in this country has for more than a century treated the population as if they were barbarians and therefore can't quite get how they think or why their grievances should be paid attention to. Even now the far-right foreign-owned tabloid press keeps geeing its readership up, portraying almost every item to do with the Brexit negotiations in terms of "Europeans" demanding stuff from Brits and not allowing Brits to do what they want, etc. Harry |
P**s up and brewery.
In article ,
tim... wrote: "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Andy Burns wrote: Dave Plowman wrote: You put Spain and Portugal in the same economic state as Greece? Why not Eire too? I seem to remember PIGS (Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain and variations thereof) was a moniker for countries most under pressure in the financial crisis and possible candidates to exit the Eurozone? And Ireland has seen the light and has no wish to leave the EU because unlike us it hasn't been give a big bill to pay for the past 30 years, but has instead been given handouts Ah - right. You dislike the idea of one country helping another. And the principle that as that country become richer, it contributes to others. At least you're being honest. -- *Honk if you love peace and quiet. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
P**s up and brewery.
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote: The Leavers now need to prove their original claims that it will be like a picnic with sweets for everybody. That was never the claim. Teh claim was that it would liberate hardworking people to make things better, Really? Can you find a quote for that? not that lazy lefty****s would get a free ride. You are amazing. Without the vast number of badly mislead Labour voters, Brexit would just be a wanking fantasy for Farage. -- *The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
P**s up and brewery.
"Rod Speed" wrote in news:f2o6smFlq6mU1
@mid.individual.net: hordes of EUians pouring into their country Many British expats don't distinguish much between their revulsion towards black, brown and non-English speaking immigrants to Britain and the revulsion they also feel towards the "native" proletarians who are white and English-speaking. To think many of these types had a vote in the referendum... Harry |
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