Enviromental health Scotland tells me i cant extract a toilet fan into the
close of a tenament building it has to be extracted into the open air.

Can anyone confirm this as i cant find any info.

Is this a building reg for existing installations as well as new ones?

Thanks.

On Monday, 21 August 2017 11:24:59 UTC+1, Mr Jimmy wrote:
Enviromental health Scotland tells me i cant extract a toilet fan into the
close of a tenament building it has to be extracted into the open air.

Sounds right to me.

Apart from anything else, it's a break in the fire barrier between your flat and other flats' escape route.

Some tenements were built with internal bathrooms having a window on to the close for daylight.

Owain

thanks

what do you mean by this?

it's a break in the fire barrier between your flat and other flats'
escape route.


wrote in message
...

On Monday, 21 August 2017 11:24:59 UTC+1, Mr Jimmy wrote:
Enviromental health Scotland tells me i cant extract a toilet fan into the
close of a tenament building it has to be extracted into the open air.

Sounds right to me.

Apart from anything else, it's a break in the fire barrier between your flat
and other flats' escape route.

Some tenements were built with internal bathrooms having a window on to the
close for daylight.

Owain

yes the toilet has a window with a 6" fan it

2 of the flats are like that

i was shocked to hear this regulation as ive been here almost 40 years

thats why i wondered if it was new installations only as it couldnt have
been a reg in 1980 or I would have know

obviously my neighbour doesnt know either



"Mr Jimmy" wrote in message
o.uk...

thanks

what do you mean by this?

it's a break in the fire barrier between your flat and other flats'
escape route.


wrote in message
...

On Monday, 21 August 2017 11:24:59 UTC+1, Mr Jimmy wrote:
Enviromental health Scotland tells me i cant extract a toilet fan into the
close of a tenament building it has to be extracted into the open air.

Sounds right to me.

Apart from anything else, it's a break in the fire barrier between your flat
and other flats' escape route.

Some tenements were built with internal bathrooms having a window on to the
close for daylight.

Owain

On Monday, 21 August 2017 14:13:48 UTC+1, Mr Jimmy wrote:
i was shocked to hear this regulation as ive been here almost 40 years
thats why i wondered if it was new installations only as it couldnt have
been a reg in 1980 or I would have know

Most tenements were built when indoor cludgies were upmarket.

Apart from anything else, it's a break in the fire barrier between your flat
and other flats' escape route.

By which I mean the common close should be surrounded by solid masonry apart from the flats' front doors - which traditionally in Scotland give onto a lobby separate from the indoor hall. Although not formally fire-rated, two doors is a fairly good barrier for smoke.

Owain

"Mr Jimmy" wrote in message
o.uk...
Enviromental health Scotland tells me i cant extract a toilet fan into the
close of a tenament building it has to be extracted into the open air.

Can anyone confirm this as i cant find any info.

Is this a building reg for existing installations as well as new ones?

Thanks.

I certainly wouldn't want to be standing in the close being blasted by
toilet smells.
--
Dave W

Thanks for the replies its not me doing the extracting i am on the receiving
end of it.

He is not only blasting me with toilet smells he is blasting me with
poisonous chemical irritants.....essential oils......causing me all sorts of
health problems but enviromental health say they cant do anything because
the argyle and clyde health board do not recognise essential oils as being a
public health hazard.

This is despite the fact it is all over the net about these oils. The health
board deny the irritants are air borne despite there being a medical
condition called "air borne contact dermititis" which i have been suffering
from for a year. This condition is specific to essential oils.

Disgraceful attitude from enviromental health. All the officer offered was
the info about building regs. He is basically "passing the buck" but i
thought i would check that the part of this info was correct because the
info he obtained from the health board is garbage!



"Dave W" wrote in message news

"Mr Jimmy" wrote in message
o.uk...
Enviromental health Scotland tells me i cant extract a toilet fan into the
close of a tenament building it has to be extracted into the open air.

Can anyone confirm this as i cant find any info.

Is this a building reg for existing installations as well as new ones?

Thanks.

I certainly wouldn't want to be standing in the close being blasted by
toilet smells.
--
Dave W

On Wednesday, 23 August 2017 15:11:27 UTC+1, Mr Jimmy wrote:
Thanks for the replies its not me doing the extracting i am on the receiving
end of it.

He is not only blasting me with toilet smells he is blasting me with
poisonous chemical irritants.....essential oils......causing me all sorts of
health problems but enviromental health say they cant do anything because
the argyle and clyde health board do not recognise essential oils as being a
public health hazard.

This is despite the fact it is all over the net about these oils. The health
board deny the irritants are air borne despite there being a medical
condition called "air borne contact dermititis" which i have been suffering
from for a year. This condition is specific to essential oils.

Disgraceful attitude from enviromental health. All the officer offered was
the info about building regs. He is basically "passing the buck" but i
thought i would check that the part of this info was correct because the
info he obtained from the health board is garbage!



"Dave W" wrote in message news

"Mr Jimmy" wrote in message
o.uk...
Enviromental health Scotland tells me i cant extract a toilet fan into the
close of a tenament building it has to be extracted into the open air.

Can anyone confirm this as i cant find any info.

Is this a building reg for existing installations as well as new ones?

Thanks.

I certainly wouldn't want to be standing in the close being blasted by
toilet smells.

So fit a fan with a flap. Thermal is much more effective than gravity operated.


NT

Mr Jimmy formulated on Wednesday :
Thanks for the replies its not me doing the extracting i am on the receiving
end of it.

He is not only blasting me with toilet smells he is blasting me with
poisonous chemical irritants.....essential oils......causing me all sorts of
health problems but enviromental health say they cant do anything because the
argyle and clyde health board do not recognise essential oils as being a
public health hazard.

I have no idea what a 'close' might be, but could you simply not poke a
stick through the fan?

On Wednesday, 23 August 2017 16:04:20 UTC+1, wrote:
On Wednesday, 23 August 2017 15:11:27 UTC+1, Mr Jimmy wrote:
Thanks for the replies its not me doing the extracting i am on the receiving
end of it.

He is not only blasting me with toilet smells he is blasting me with
poisonous chemical irritants.....essential oils......causing me all sorts of
health problems but enviromental health say they cant do anything because
the argyle and clyde health board do not recognise essential oils as being a
public health hazard.

This is despite the fact it is all over the net about these oils. The health
board deny the irritants are air borne despite there being a medical
condition called "air borne contact dermititis" which i have been suffering
from for a year. This condition is specific to essential oils.

Disgraceful attitude from enviromental health. All the officer offered was
the info about building regs. He is basically "passing the buck" but i
thought i would check that the part of this info was correct because the
info he obtained from the health board is garbage!



"Dave W" wrote in message news

"Mr Jimmy" wrote in message
o.uk...
Enviromental health Scotland tells me i cant extract a toilet fan into the
close of a tenament building it has to be extracted into the open air.

Can anyone confirm this as i cant find any info.

Is this a building reg for existing installations as well as new ones?

Thanks.

I certainly wouldn't want to be standing in the close being blasted by
toilet smells.

So fit a fan with a flap. Thermal is much more effective than gravity operated.

How would that change anything ?

On Wednesday, 23 August 2017 15:11:27 UTC+1, Mr Jimmy wrote:
Thanks for the replies its not me doing the extracting i am on the receiving
end of it.
He is not only blasting me with toilet smells he is blasting me with
poisonous chemical irritants.....essential oils......causing me all sorts of
health problems but enviromental health say they cant do anything because
the argyle and clyde health board do not recognise essential oils as being a
public health hazard.

You may be better to not concentrate on the alleged health effects, as they may be disputable, and instead concentrate on nuisance and damage related to moisture and condensation in the common parts of the building, which presumably you have a share in?

AIUI there is nothing to stop an extractor fan being ducted through a communal area, and I've seen it done with the duct exiting through the fanlight over the front door.

Owain



Owain

wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 23 August 2017 15:11:27 UTC+1, Mr Jimmy wrote:
Thanks for the replies its not me doing the extracting i am on the
receiving
end of it.
He is not only blasting me with toilet smells he is blasting me with
poisonous chemical irritants.....essential oils......causing me all sorts
of
health problems but enviromental health say they cant do anything because
the argyle and clyde health board do not recognise essential oils as
being a
public health hazard.

You may be better to not concentrate on the alleged health effects, as
they may be disputable, and instead concentrate on nuisance and damage
related to moisture and condensation in the common parts of the building,
which presumably you have a share in?

AIUI there is nothing to stop an extractor fan being ducted through a
communal area, and I've seen it done with the duct exiting through the
fanlight over the front door.

One way to discourage the Joveys I spose.

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message news
Mr Jimmy formulated on Wednesday :
Thanks for the replies its not me doing the extracting i am on the
receiving end of it.

He is not only blasting me with toilet smells he is blasting me with
poisonous chemical irritants.....essential oils......causing me all sorts
of health problems but enviromental health say they cant do anything
because the argyle and clyde health board do not recognise essential oils
as being a public health hazard.

I have no idea what a 'close' might be, but could you simply not poke a
stick through the fan?

-

Harry once i have exhausted all the legal routes
then.........................

wrote in message
...

On Wednesday, 23 August 2017 15:11:27 UTC+1, Mr Jimmy wrote:
Thanks for the replies its not me doing the extracting i am on the
receiving
end of it.
He is not only blasting me with toilet smells he is blasting me with
poisonous chemical irritants.....essential oils......causing me all sorts
of
health problems but enviromental health say they cant do anything because
the argyle and clyde health board do not recognise essential oils as being
a
public health hazard.

You may be better to not concentrate on the alleged health effects, as they
may be disputable, and instead concentrate on nuisance and damage related to
moisture and condensation in the common parts of the building, which
presumably you have a share in?

AIUI there is nothing to stop an extractor fan being ducted through a
communal area, and I've seen it done with the duct exiting through the
fanlight over the front door.

Owain



Owain

-


Yes owain thats good advice i am beginning to think that might be better
plus someone has pointed me to public/private nuisance laws ;o)

Tim+ explained on 23/08/2017 :
A "close" in Glasgow is a communal stairwell leading to flats on
several floors. In Glasgow, it frequently has tiled, or half
tiled walls and is then called a "Wally close".

https://www.flickr.com/photos/33674336@N08/5963570595

Tim

Ta!

On Monday, 21 August 2017 11:24:59 UTC+1, Mr Jimmy wrote:
Enviromental health Scotland tells me i cant extract a toilet fan into the
close of a tenament building it has to be extracted into the open air.
Can anyone confirm this as i cant find any info.

Here we are; the relevant provision is in the Scottish Tolerable Standard for housing (although other legislation may also apply):

6.22. For bathrooms, and other apartments, plus the kitchen, where there is no satisfactory openable window, they must have an alternative ventilation system. Normally this will be a mechanical device, such as an extractor fan, but in some cases an assessor will find other systems such as a passive stack type (where warm, moist air passes through a vent into an almost vertical duct and is expelled at an outlet on the roof). The device or system must vent directly to the outside and not into an adjacent apartment, circulation space or common access route, such as a tenement close.

Housing (Scotland) Act 2006, Tolerable Standard
http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2009/03/25154751/7

The tolerable standard is a "condemnatory" standard; a house that falls below it is not acceptable as living accommodation. Local authorities have a statutory duty and specific powers to deal with houses that fall below the tolerable standard (" BTS"). We explain the duty and powers in this chapter.

2.8. To meet the tolerable standard a house must comply with all the criteria. In other words, the assessment is a simple "pass" or "fail". If a house does not meet even one of the criteria, then it is BTS.

2.9. Housing (Scotland) Act 1987 s. 85(1) places a duty on every local authority to secure that all houses in their area which do not meet the tolerable standard are closed, demolished or brought up to the tolerable standard. This duty remains in force and subsequent legislation has not altered it. The Act does not restrict the duty to any specific tenure of housing.

http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2009/03/25154751/3

Therefore you can report your neighbour's house for being Below Tolerable Standard, and ask the council why they are not complying with the duty to bring it up to Tolerable Standard under the 1987 Act.

Owain

wrote in message
...

On Monday, 21 August 2017 11:24:59 UTC+1, Mr Jimmy wrote:
Enviromental health Scotland tells me i cant extract a toilet fan into the
close of a tenament building it has to be extracted into the open air.
Can anyone confirm this as i cant find any info.

Here we are; the relevant provision is in the Scottish Tolerable Standard
for housing (although other legislation may also apply):

6.22. For bathrooms, and other apartments, plus the kitchen, where there is
no satisfactory openable window, they must have an alternative ventilation
system. Normally this will be a mechanical device, such as an extractor fan,
but in some cases an assessor will find other systems such as a passive
stack type (where warm, moist air passes through a vent into an almost
vertical duct and is expelled at an outlet on the roof). The device or
system must vent directly to the outside and not into an adjacent apartment,
circulation space or common access route, such as a tenement close.

Housing (Scotland) Act 2006, Tolerable Standard
http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2009/03/25154751/7

The tolerable standard is a "condemnatory" standard; a house that falls
below it is not acceptable as living accommodation. Local authorities have a
statutory duty and specific powers to deal with houses that fall below the
tolerable standard (" BTS"). We explain the duty and powers in this chapter.

2.8. To meet the tolerable standard a house must comply with all the
criteria. In other words, the assessment is a simple "pass" or "fail". If a
house does not meet even one of the criteria, then it is BTS.

2.9. Housing (Scotland) Act 1987 s. 85(1) places a duty on every local
authority to secure that all houses in their area which do not meet the
tolerable standard are closed, demolished or brought up to the tolerable
standard. This duty remains in force and subsequent legislation has not
altered it. The Act does not restrict the duty to any specific tenure of
housing.

http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2009/03/25154751/3

Therefore you can report your neighbour's house for being Below Tolerable
Standard, and ask the council why they are not complying with the duty to
bring it up to Tolerable Standard under the 1987 Act.

Owain

-

Jeez owain thats EXACTLY what i am/have been searching for.

Thanks a million thats perfect!

"Dave W" wrote in message
news

"Mr Jimmy" wrote in message
o.uk...
Enviromental health Scotland tells me i cant extract a toilet fan into
the close of a tenament building it has to be extracted into the open
air.

Can anyone confirm this as i cant find any info.

Is this a building reg for existing installations as well as new ones?

Thanks.

I certainly wouldn't want to be standing in the close being blasted by
toilet smells.

it's a fallacy that fans from toilets are there to remove smells

they are there to remove moisture (that they remove smells as well is pure
coincidence)

tim


--
Dave W

On 29/08/2017 10:50, tim... wrote:
"Dave W" wrote in message
news
"Mr Jimmy" wrote in message
o.uk...
Enviromental health Scotland tells me i cant extract a toilet fan
into the close of a tenament building it has to be extracted into the
open air.

Can anyone confirm this as i cant find any info.

Is this a building reg for existing installations as well as new ones?

Thanks.

I certainly wouldn't want to be standing in the close being blasted by
toilet smells.

it's a fallacy that fans from toilets are there to remove smells

they are there to remove moisture (that they remove smells as well is
pure coincidence)

Who says? Do you have a unique insight into the motivations of man? In
any case, a toilet (as opposed to a bathroom or shower room) will
generate minimal moisture.

--
Max Demian

On 29/08/17 12:01, Max Demian wrote:
On 29/08/2017 10:50, tim... wrote:
"Dave W" wrote in message
news
"Mr Jimmy" wrote in message
o.uk...
Enviromental health Scotland tells me i cant extract a toilet fan
into the close of a tenament building it has to be extracted into
the open air.

Can anyone confirm this as i cant find any info.

Is this a building reg for existing installations as well as new ones?

Thanks.

I certainly wouldn't want to be standing in the close being blasted
by toilet smells.

it's a fallacy that fans from toilets are there to remove smells

they are there to remove moisture (that they remove smells as well is
pure coincidence)

Who says?


Building regulations

Do you have a unique insight into the motivations of man? In
any case, a toilet (as opposed to a bathroom or shower room) will
generate minimal moisture.



--
In todays liberel progressive conflict-free education system, everyone
gets full Marx.

On 29/08/2017 14:48, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 29/08/17 12:01, Max Demian wrote:
On 29/08/2017 10:50, tim... wrote:
"Dave W" wrote in message
news "Mr Jimmy" wrote in message
o.uk...
Enviromental health Scotland tells me i cant extract a toilet fan
into the close of a tenament building it has to be extracted into
the open air.

Can anyone confirm this as i cant find any info.

Is this a building reg for existing installations as well as new ones?

Thanks.

I certainly wouldn't want to be standing in the close being blasted
by toilet smells.

it's a fallacy that fans from toilets are there to remove smells

they are there to remove moisture (that they remove smells as well is
pure coincidence)

Who says?

Building regulations

Regulations don't need to explain why they exist. they just /are/.

Do you have a unique insight into the motivations of man? In
any case, a toilet (as opposed to a bathroom or shower room) will
generate minimal moisture.

--
Max Demian

Max Demian wrote:

On 29/08/2017 10:50, tim... wrote:
"Dave W" wrote in message
news
"Mr Jimmy" wrote in message
o.uk...
Enviromental health Scotland tells me i cant extract a toilet fan
into the close of a tenament building it has to be extracted into the
open air.

Can anyone confirm this as i cant find any info.

Is this a building reg for existing installations as well as new ones?

Thanks.

I certainly wouldn't want to be standing in the close being blasted by
toilet smells.

it's a fallacy that fans from toilets are there to remove smells

they are there to remove moisture (that they remove smells as well is
pure coincidence)

Who says? Do you have a unique insight into the motivations of man? In
any case, a toilet (as opposed to a bathroom or shower room) will
generate minimal moisture.

Absolutely. The purpose behind the building regulations is not the
same as the reason a real person might choose to retro-fit something
not required by the regs. n=1 proof, the last extractor fan I put in
(other than new build) was specifically to remove smells from a small
toilet with a window which was inconvenient to open. It did actually
have a bath, but I didn't care about condensation. The house was kept
warm enough for it not to matter.


--

Roger Hayter

On 24/08/2017 08:48, Mr Jimmy wrote:


"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message news
Mr Jimmy formulated on Wednesday :
Thanks for the replies its not me doing the extracting i am on the
receiving end of it.

He is not only blasting me with toilet smells he is blasting me with
poisonous chemical irritants.....essential oils......causing me all
sorts of health problems but enviromental health say they cant do
anything because the argyle and clyde health board do not recognise
essential oils as being a public health hazard.

I have no idea what a 'close' might be, but could you simply not poke a
stick through the fan?

-

Harry once i have exhausted all the legal routes
then.........................

Is there anything illegal about letting off some stink bombs and blaming
it on your neighbour??

"Fredxxx" wrote in message
news
On 24/08/2017 08:48, Mr Jimmy wrote:


"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message news
Mr Jimmy formulated on Wednesday :
Thanks for the replies its not me doing the extracting i am on the
receiving end of it.

He is not only blasting me with toilet smells he is blasting me with
poisonous chemical irritants.....essential oils......causing me all
sorts of health problems but enviromental health say they cant do
anything because the argyle and clyde health board do not recognise
essential oils as being a public health hazard.

I have no idea what a 'close' might be, but could you simply not poke a
stick through the fan?

-

Harry once i have exhausted all the legal routes
then.........................

Is there anything illegal about letting off some stink bombs and blaming
it on your neighbour??

Corse there is.

On Wednesday, 23 August 2017 15:11:27 UTC+1, Mr Jimmy wrote:
Thanks for the replies its not me doing the extracting i am on the receiving
end of it.

Can ye naw jist chib the bustard?

Owain

wrote in message
...

On Monday, 21 August 2017 11:24:59 UTC+1, Mr Jimmy wrote:
Enviromental health Scotland tells me i cant extract a toilet fan into the
close of a tenament building it has to be extracted into the open air.
Can anyone confirm this as i cant find any info.

Here we are; the relevant provision is in the Scottish Tolerable Standard
for housing (although other legislation may also apply):

6.22. For bathrooms, and other apartments, plus the kitchen, where there is
no satisfactory openable window, they must have an alternative ventilation
system. Normally this will be a mechanical device, such as an extractor fan,
but in some cases an assessor will find other systems such as a passive
stack type (where warm, moist air passes through a vent into an almost
vertical duct and is expelled at an outlet on the roof). The device or
system must vent directly to the outside and not into an adjacent apartment,
circulation space or common access route, such as a tenement close.

Housing (Scotland) Act 2006, Tolerable Standard
http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2009/03/25154751/7

The tolerable standard is a "condemnatory" standard; a house that falls
below it is not acceptable as living accommodation. Local authorities have a
statutory duty and specific powers to deal with houses that fall below the
tolerable standard (" BTS"). We explain the duty and powers in this chapter.

2.8. To meet the tolerable standard a house must comply with all the
criteria. In other words, the assessment is a simple "pass" or "fail". If a
house does not meet even one of the criteria, then it is BTS.

2.9. Housing (Scotland) Act 1987 s. 85(1) places a duty on every local
authority to secure that all houses in their area which do not meet the
tolerable standard are closed, demolished or brought up to the tolerable
standard. This duty remains in force and subsequent legislation has not
altered it. The Act does not restrict the duty to any specific tenure of
housing.

http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2009/03/25154751/3

Therefore you can report your neighbour's house for being Below Tolerable
Standard, and ask the council why they are not complying with the duty to
bring it up to Tolerable Standard under the 1987 Act.

Owain

--


owain

i thought i replied to you on this but i see now i didnt

just to say a massive THANK YOU this its the very thing i was looking for
for months and couldnt find so just to let you know i really appreciate you
tracking this down for me.

jimmy

On 07/09/2017 21:44, Black wrote:


wrote in message
...

On Monday, 21 August 2017 11:24:59 UTC+1, Mr JimmyÂ* wrote:
Enviromental health Scotland tells me i cant extract a toilet fan into
the
close of a tenament building it has to be extracted into the open air.
Can anyone confirm this as i cant find any info.

Here we are; the relevant provision is in the Scottish Tolerable
Standard for housing (although other legislation may also apply):

6.22. For bathrooms, and other apartments, plus the kitchen, where there
is no satisfactory openable window, they must have an alternative
ventilation system. Normally this will be a mechanical device, such as
an extractor fan, but in some cases an assessor will find other systems
such as a passive stack type (where warm, moist air passes through a
vent into an almost vertical duct and is expelled at an outlet on the
roof). The device or system must vent directly to the outside and not
into an adjacent apartment, circulation space or common access route,
such as a tenement close.

Housing (Scotland) Act 2006, Tolerable Standard
http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2009/03/25154751/7

The tolerable standard is a "condemnatory" standard; a house that falls
below it is not acceptable as living accommodation. Local authorities
have a statutory duty and specific powers to deal with houses that fall
below the tolerable standard (" BTS"). We explain the duty and powers in
this chapter.

2.8. To meet the tolerable standard a house must comply with all the
criteria. In other words, the assessment is a simple "pass" or "fail".
If a house does not meet even one of the criteria, then it is BTS.

2.9. Housing (Scotland) Act 1987 s. 85(1) places a duty on every local
authority to secure that all houses in their area which do not meet the
tolerable standard are closed, demolished or brought up to the tolerable
standard. This duty remains in force and subsequent legislation has not
altered it. The Act does not restrict the duty to any specific tenure of
housing.

http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2009/03/25154751/3

Therefore you can report your neighbour's house for being Below
Tolerable Standard, and ask the council why they are not complying with
the duty to bring it up to Tolerable Standard under the 1987 Act.


Seems a lot better in Scotland than England, although the English have
tried to beef up LA powers. But a strangely unanimous Conservative party
blocked it a couple of times:

https://fullfact.org/economy/did-mps...e-fit-live-in/

On Thursday, 7 September 2017 21:44:25 UTC+1, Black wrote:
i thought i replied to you on this but i see now i didnt

I think you did!

just to say a massive THANK YOU this its the very thing i was looking for
for months and couldnt find so just to let you know i really appreciate you
tracking this down for me.

You're welcome. That's what usenet is for...

Owain