I'm about to replace my heating system within a 28mm spine down the
length of the house and tees off it to the various rads. The longest
straight runs are going to be about 20m so I'm concerned about noise as
the pipes expand. What suggestions does the team have for how to
minimise the risk of noise?

wrote:

I'm about to replace my heating system within a 28mm spine down the
length of the house and tees off it to the various rads. The longest
straight runs are going to be about 20m so I'm concerned about noise as
the pipes expand. What suggestions does the team have for how to
minimise the risk of noise?

Nothing of that size, but for noisy pipes when I've had the chance where
floorboards are up, or ceilings are down I've stuffed in pieces of the
old "horsehair and felt" underlay.

On 17/08/2017 00:00, wrote:
I'm about to replace my heating system within a 28mm spine down the
length of the house and tees off it to the various rads. The longest
straight runs are going to be about 20m so I'm concerned about noise as
the pipes expand. What suggestions does the team have for how to
minimise the risk of noise?

If you put a rectangular loop in the main pipe and make sure it wasn't
rigidly fixed anywhere wouldn't that let the expansion happen gently and
thus eliminate noise?

Bill

brought next idea :
I'm about to replace my heating system within a 28mm spine down the length of
the house and tees off it to the various rads. The longest straight runs are
going to be about 20m so I'm concerned about noise as the pipes expand. What
suggestions does the team have for how to minimise the risk of noise?

If the 20m runs are straight, I would suggest some means needs to be
made to allow for length of expansion. Would some loops in the runs do
that? Maybe four bends so to form a U in the pipe, to allow some give?

To prevent expansion noise, maybe wrap the points of pipe contact with
something slippy - plastic strips cut from the likes of the 2L
ice-cream tubs.

wrote:
I'm about to replace my heating system within a 28mm spine down the
length of the house and tees off it to the various rads. The longest
straight runs are going to be about 20m so I'm concerned about noise as
the pipes expand. What suggestions does the team have for how to
minimise the risk of noise?

Presuming you're hanging it under joists rather than notching them, then
I like the idea of making the mounting points short (75mm?) lengths of
35/42mm copper pipe (suitably deburred.)

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

In message , Harry Bloomfield
writes
brought next idea :
I'm about to replace my heating system within a 28mm spine down the
length of the house and tees off it to the various rads. The longest
straight runs are going to be about 20m so I'm concerned about noise
as the pipes expand. What suggestions does the team have for how to
minimise the risk of noise?

If the 20m runs are straight, I would suggest some means needs to be
made to allow for length of expansion. Would some loops in the runs do
that? Maybe four bends so to form a U in the pipe, to allow some give?

To prevent expansion noise, maybe wrap the points of pipe contact with
something slippy - plastic strips cut from the likes of the 2L
ice-cream tubs.

You can get *bellows type* expansion tubes but I think the suggestion
above would be adequate for your installation. Ticking noises as pipes
expand and slide over joists etc as above but perhaps secure the sleeve
to the support.

--
Tim Lamb

Harry Bloomfield wrote:

If the 20m runs are straight, I would suggest some means needs to be
made to allow for length of expansion. Would some loops in the runs do
that? Maybe four bends so to form a U in the pipe, to allow some give?

We had a problem in an office building where there were no loops
in a long pipe feeding radiators, and the movement caused joints
to weep.

Instead of the hassle and unsightliness of a loop, they simply
inserted an expansion fitting, which did the job nicely.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 00:00:38 +0100, wrote:

What suggestions does the team have for how to
minimise the risk of noise?

"cushioned pipe clamp" or "rubber lined pipe clamp".


Thomas Prufer

In message , Chris J Dixon
writes
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

If the 20m runs are straight, I would suggest some means needs to be
made to allow for length of expansion. Would some loops in the runs do
that? Maybe four bends so to form a U in the pipe, to allow some give?

We had a problem in an office building where there were no loops
in a long pipe feeding radiators, and the movement caused joints
to weep.

Ha! The largest re-locatable building of its day 1980 ish. Pipe runs
were so long the pushed the end radiators off the plaster board wall.

Instead of the hassle and unsightliness of a loop, they simply
inserted an expansion fitting, which did the job nicely.

Likewise. Should have been designed in!

--
Tim Lamb

On 17/08/2017 08:29, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Harry Bloomfield
writes
brought next idea :
I'm about to replace my heating system within a 28mm spine down the
length of the house and tees off it to the various rads. The longest
straight runs are going to be about 20m so I'm concerned about noise
as the pipes expand. What suggestions does the team have for how to
minimise the risk of noise?

If the 20m runs are straight, I would suggest some means needs to be
made to allow for length of expansion. Would some loops in the runs do
that? Maybe four bends so to form a U in the pipe, to allow some give?

To prevent expansion noise, maybe wrap the points of pipe contact with
something slippy - plastic strips cut from the likes of the 2L
ice-cream tubs.

You can get *bellows type* expansion tubes but I think the suggestion
above would be adequate for your installation. Ticking noises as pipes
expand and slide over joists etc as above but perhaps secure the sleeve
to the support.

Thanks, I didn't know about expansion joints. From some quick sums it
looks like the total expansion will be up to 25mm so two expansion
joints in each run should keep the movement down if the runs between
these joints are fixed at their mid points.

On 17/08/2017 08:24, Scott M wrote:
wrote:
I'm about to replace my heating system within a 28mm spine down the
length of the house and tees off it to the various rads. The longest
straight runs are going to be about 20m so I'm concerned about noise
as the pipes expand. What suggestions does the team have for how to
minimise the risk of noise?

Presuming you're hanging it under joists rather than notching them, then
I like the idea of making the mounting points short (75mm?) lengths of
35/42mm copper pipe (suitably deburred.)

It's going to run in existing boxing at skirting level down the length
of the house, clipped to the wall

Tim Lamb wrote:

In message , Chris J Dixon
writes

We had a problem in an office building where there were no loops
in a long pipe feeding radiators, and the movement caused joints
to weep.

Ha! The largest re-locatable building of its day 1980 ish. Pipe runs
were so long the pushed the end radiators off the plaster board wall.

Ours was 56 units on two floors, and can be seen here

https://goo.gl/maps/GoyGLL5cqXA2

The radiator system was installed after the units were erected.

Instead of the hassle and unsightliness of a loop, they simply
inserted an expansion fitting, which did the job nicely.

Likewise. Should have been designed in!

I don't think they gave it much thought - they were more
concerned with having to put up a sheet of ply for every
radiator, to get fixings strong enough .

The troublesome joint was a "T", which rub marks showed was
moving at least 10 mm.

There were about 100 staff per floor, quite a few large CAD
monitors and fluorescent lighting. Except for the depths of
winter, the heating had to be turned off around 9:00, otherwise
it was uncomfortably hot by the afternoon. It was some years
before any cooling was installed.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

On Thursday, August 17, 2017 at 12:00:41 AM UTC+1, wrote:
I'm about to replace my heating system within a 28mm spine down the
length of the house and tees off it to the various rads. The longest
straight runs are going to be about 20m so I'm concerned about noise as
the pipes expand. What suggestions does the team have for how to
minimise the risk of noise?


I had a similar situation. I solved it my suspending the pipes from loops of nylon rope allowing the pipe to expand freely. I used no clips. It has worked completely - we have no ticking noises.

I believe it is common practice in other countries.

Robert

On 17/08/2017 13:36, RobertL wrote:
On Thursday, August 17, 2017 at 12:00:41 AM UTC+1, wrote:
I'm about to replace my heating system within a 28mm spine down the
length of the house and tees off it to the various rads. The longest
straight runs are going to be about 20m so I'm concerned about noise as
the pipes expand. What suggestions does the team have for how to
minimise the risk of noise?


I had a similar situation. I solved it my suspending the pipes from loops of nylon rope allowing the pipe to expand freely. I used no clips. It has worked completely - we have no ticking noises.

I believe it is common practice in other countries.

Robert


Hmmm, it's going to be inside boxing so I could suspend it from L
brackets, maybe with a strip of rubber - or even use exhaust rubbers (a
bit OTT, perhaps). Thanks!

On 17/08/2017 14:29, wrote:

Hmmm, it's going to be inside boxing so I could suspend it from L
brackets, maybe with a strip of rubber - or even use exhaust rubbers (a
bit OTT, perhaps). Thanks!
Will you have room to use lengths of uPVC pipe? Eg 28mm pipe plus 13mm
insulation adds up to 54mm and should be a loose fit in 68mm pipe.
Brackets are cheap. And there's less risk of damage to the insulation.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Thursday, 17 August 2017 14:29:43 UTC+1, wrote:
On 17/08/2017 13:36, RobertL wrote:
On Thursday, August 17, 2017 at 12:00:41 AM UTC+1, wrote:

I'm about to replace my heating system within a 28mm spine down the
length of the house and tees off it to the various rads. The longest
straight runs are going to be about 20m so I'm concerned about noise as
the pipes expand. What suggestions does the team have for how to
minimise the risk of noise?


I had a similar situation. I solved it my suspending the pipes from loops of nylon rope allowing the pipe to expand freely. I used no clips. It has worked completely - we have no ticking noises.

I believe it is common practice in other countries.

Robert


Hmmm, it's going to be inside boxing so I could suspend it from L
brackets, maybe with a strip of rubber - or even use exhaust rubbers (a
bit OTT, perhaps). Thanks!

or simply sit it on cardboard or insulation.


NT

On Thursday, 17 August 2017 00:00:41 UTC+1, wrote:
I'm about to replace my heating system within a 28mm spine down the
length of the house and tees off it to the various rads. The longest
straight runs are going to be about 20m so I'm concerned about noise as
the pipes expand. What suggestions does the team have for how to
minimise the risk of noise?

The correct way to install long straight run of pipe is to incorporate expansion bellows.

http://www.supaflex.com/copper-expansion-bellows

The pipe needs to be free to move axially but not laterally and the ends need to be restrained by "anchor points".
Drawing he-

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=pi...Z_aIznXxkXpLM:

In message , Chris J Dixon
writes
Tim Lamb wrote:

In message , Chris J Dixon
writes

We had a problem in an office building where there were no loops
in a long pipe feeding radiators, and the movement caused joints
to weep.

Ha! The largest re-locatable building of its day 1980 ish. Pipe runs
were so long the pushed the end radiators off the plaster board wall.

Ours was 56 units on two floors, and can be seen here

https://goo.gl/maps/GoyGLL5cqXA2

The radiator system was installed after the units were erected.

Instead of the hassle and unsightliness of a loop, they simply
inserted an expansion fitting, which did the job nicely.

Likewise. Should have been designed in!

I don't think they gave it much thought - they were more
concerned with having to put up a sheet of ply for every
radiator, to get fixings strong enough .

The troublesome joint was a "T", which rub marks showed was
moving at least 10 mm.

There were about 100 staff per floor, quite a few large CAD
monitors and fluorescent lighting. Except for the depths of
winter, the heating had to be turned off around 9:00, otherwise
it was uncomfortably hot by the afternoon. It was some years
before any cooling was installed.

Ha! again. Boiler house man went mad. 8.30 am. staff arrive, feel cold
and whack up the rad stats to full temp. Sun comes out, lots of glass so
they turn them off.

Next morning boiler comes on in advance of staff arriving but all the
radiator stats are turned off. Repeat, repeat,.....

Last I saw of it was a fitter on hands and knees fitting stops on the
valves.

--
Tim Lamb