Our village hall has several fire exits each with a luminaire that is
supposed to come on if the mains power fails. The other week they all
came on when we were leaving the hall after a function, and we couldn't
turn them off. Now - with the exception of exactly one of them - they
don't work at all, and the little red lights showing that the battery is
charging have gone out.

Any suggestions as to reason for failure?

--
Jack

Handsome Jack wrote:

Our village hall has several fire exits each with a luminaire that is
supposed to come on if the mains power fails. The other week they all
came on when we were leaving the hall after a function, and we couldn't
turn them off. Now - with the exception of exactly one of them - they
don't work at all, and the little red lights showing that the battery is
charging have gone out.

Any suggestions as to reason for failure?

Are they all fed from a dedicated circuit which has either tripped, or
someone accidentally turned off?

Has somebody been fiddling with a "fish" key in the emergency test switch?

In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
Handsome Jack wrote:

Our village hall has several fire exits each with a luminaire that is
supposed to come on if the mains power fails. The other week they all
came on when we were leaving the hall after a function, and we couldn't
turn them off. Now - with the exception of exactly one of them - they
don't work at all, and the little red lights showing that the battery is
charging have gone out.

Any suggestions as to reason for failure?

Are they all fed from a dedicated circuit which has either tripped, or
someone accidentally turned off?

They should not be fed from a dedicated circuit - that's against the
relevant BS. They need to be fed from the same circuit as the local
lighting.

Has somebody been fiddling with a "fish" key in the emergency test switch?

Most likely. It was probably alongside one that should have been switched
off. Ask the person who was locking up/checking switches.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

charles posted
In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
Handsome Jack wrote:

Our village hall has several fire exits each with a luminaire that is
supposed to come on if the mains power fails. The other week they all
came on when we were leaving the hall after a function, and we couldn't
turn them off. Now - with the exception of exactly one of them - they
don't work at all, and the little red lights showing that the battery is
charging have gone out.

Any suggestions as to reason for failure?

Are they all fed from a dedicated circuit which has either tripped, or
someone accidentally turned off?

They are fed from one of the internal lighting circuits.

They should not be fed from a dedicated circuit - that's against the
relevant BS. They need to be fed from the same circuit as the local
lighting.

Has somebody been fiddling with a "fish" key in the emergency test switch?

Most likely. It was probably alongside one that should have been switched
off. Ask the person who was locking up/checking switches.

I don't understand the question (fish key?) so I don't suppose she would
either ... could you clarify?

--
Jack

Handsome Jack wrote:

I don't understand the question (fish key?) so I don't suppose she would
either ... could you clarify?

There should be a switch to test the emergency lights, usually
concealed, the keys have a characteristic "fish" shape

https://google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=emergency+lighting+fish+key

"Handsome Jack" wrote in message
...
Our village hall has several fire exits each with a luminaire that is
supposed to come on if the mains power fails. The other week they all came
on when we were leaving the hall after a function, and we couldn't turn
them off. Now - with the exception of exactly one of them - they don't
work at all, and the little red lights showing that the battery is
charging have gone out.

Any suggestions as to reason for failure?

You lot were into devil worship or something even
more unspeakable there and that god that just
yawned when 50M of its 'chosen people' were
rounded up and gassed and cremated, zapped
the emergency lights and plans to fry you lot
the next time you get up to such unspeakable
activitys again.

On 14/08/2017 08:44, Handsome Jack wrote:
Our village hall has several fire exits each with a luminaire that is
supposed to come on if the mains power fails. The other week they all
came on when we were leaving the hall after a function, and we couldn't
turn them off. Now - with the exception of exactly one of them - they
don't work at all, and the little red lights showing that the battery is
charging have gone out.

Any suggestions as to reason for failure?

How old are the fittings, and when where the batteries last replaced?
The batteries only have a limited service life - probably 3 - five years
while they can still get full run time, and then reducing run time with
additional age.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
Handsome Jack wrote:

I don't understand the question (fish key?) so I don't suppose she would
either ... could you clarify?

There should be a switch to test the emergency lights, usually
concealed, the keys have a characteristic "fish" shape

https://google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=emergency+lighting+fish+key

that shows the key. The switch that it fits into will look like a blank
with a vertical slot.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

In article , Handsome Jack
wrote:
charles posted
In article , Andy Burns
wrote:
Handsome Jack wrote:

Our village hall has several fire exits each with a luminaire that
is supposed to come on if the mains power fails. The other week they
all came on when we were leaving the hall after a function, and we
couldn't turn them off. Now - with the exception of exactly one of
them - they don't work at all, and the little red lights showing
that the battery is charging have gone out.

Any suggestions as to reason for failure?

Are they all fed from a dedicated circuit which has either tripped, or
someone accidentally turned off?

They are fed from one of the internal lighting circuits.

They should not be fed from a dedicated circuit - that's against the
relevant BS. They need to be fed from the same circuit as the local
lighting.

Has somebody been fiddling with a "fish" key in the emergency test
switch?

Most likely. It was probably alongside one that should have been
switched off. Ask the person who was locking up/checking switches.

I don't understand the question (fish key?) so I don't suppose she would
either ... could you clarify?


a simple question: whereabouts are you? If you're near me, I could take a
look. I've been involved with Village Hall electrics for about 40 years.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 11:03:15 +0100, charles wrote:

In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
Handsome Jack wrote:

I don't understand the question (fish key?) so I don't suppose she
would either ... could you clarify?

There should be a switch to test the emergency lights, usually
concealed, the keys have a characteristic "fish" shape

https://google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=emergency+lighting+fish+key

that shows the key. The switch that it fits into will look like a blank
with a vertical slot.

Yes, I carry one on my key ring now, having been caught out at a weekend
at work when someone had managed to disable all the lights!



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

John Rumm posted
On 14/08/2017 08:44, Handsome Jack wrote:
Our village hall has several fire exits each with a luminaire that is
supposed to come on if the mains power fails. The other week they all
came on when we were leaving the hall after a function, and we couldn't
turn them off. Now - with the exception of exactly one of them - they
don't work at all, and the little red lights showing that the battery is
charging have gone out.

Any suggestions as to reason for failure?

How old are the fittings, and when where the batteries last replaced?
The batteries only have a limited service life - probably 3 - five
years while they can still get full run time, and then reducing run
time with additional age.

Don't know but they're definitely older than three years.

That might explain why one of them is still working and the other six
aren't.

I can't find any fish key, or any record of it, or any obvious testing
switch (apart from the general-purpose testing button). Where would I
look on the ELCB unit?


--
Jack

On 14/08/2017 08:44, Handsome Jack wrote:
Our village hall has several fire exits each with a luminaire that is
supposed to come on if the mains power fails. The other week they all
came on when we were leaving the hall after a function, and we couldn't
turn them off. Now - with the exception of exactly one of them - they
don't work at all, and the little red lights showing that the battery is
charging have gone out.

Any suggestions as to reason for failure?

The fuse or circuit breaker that provides mains to the emergency lamp
circuit has failed/tripped. Check the fusebox.

I am assuming here that you haven't omitted to mention a power cut.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In article ,
Handsome Jack wrote:
John Rumm posted
On 14/08/2017 08:44, Handsome Jack wrote:
Our village hall has several fire exits each with a luminaire that is
supposed to come on if the mains power fails. The other week they all
came on when we were leaving the hall after a function, and we couldn't
turn them off. Now - with the exception of exactly one of them - they
don't work at all, and the little red lights showing that the battery is
charging have gone out.

Any suggestions as to reason for failure?

How old are the fittings, and when where the batteries last replaced?
The batteries only have a limited service life - probably 3 - five
years while they can still get full run time, and then reducing run
time with additional age.

Don't know but they're definitely older than three years.

That might explain why one of them is still working and the other six
aren't.

I can't find any fish key, or any record of it, or any obvious testing
switch (apart from the general-purpose testing button). Where would I
look on the ELCB unit?

It would be on a separate switch plate if it existed. When I put emergency
lights in our village hall in the early 1970s, the need for such a thing
wasn't there. If your lights are of that vintage, you probably won't find
it.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

Martin Brown posted
On 14/08/2017 08:44, Handsome Jack wrote:
Our village hall has several fire exits each with a luminaire that is
supposed to come on if the mains power fails. The other week they all
came on when we were leaving the hall after a function, and we
couldn't turn them off. Now - with the exception of exactly one of
them - they don't work at all, and the little red lights showing that
the battery is charging have gone out.
Any suggestions as to reason for failure?

The fuse or circuit breaker that provides mains to the emergency lamp
circuit has failed/tripped. Check the fusebox.

Can't see any tripped - and as I say, one of the luminaires is still
working, which you wouldn't expect if the trip had gone.

I am assuming here that you haven't omitted to mention a power cut.

Would that make a difference? We quite frequently get brief power cuts
here - a matter of a few seconds - and you don't always know they've
happened unless you are doing something sensitive. It might have been
that that made the emergency lights come on unexpectedly on the occasion
I describe above - could it have disabled some of them permanently too?

--
Jack

On 15/08/2017 11:19, Handsome Jack wrote:
Martin Brown posted
On 14/08/2017 08:44, Handsome Jack wrote:
Our village hall has several fire exits each with a luminaire that is
supposed to come on if the mains power fails. The other week they all
came on when we were leaving the hall after a function, and we
couldn't turn them off. Now - with the exception of exactly one of
them - they don't work at all, and the little red lights showing
that the battery is charging have gone out.
Any suggestions as to reason for failure?

The fuse or circuit breaker that provides mains to the emergency lamp
circuit has failed/tripped. Check the fusebox.

Can't see any tripped - and as I say, one of the luminaires is still
working, which you wouldn't expect if the trip had gone.

If one of them is working then check to see if that is the first in the
chain. You may well have a dodgy connection somewhere.

I am assuming here that you haven't omitted to mention a power cut.

Would that make a difference? We quite frequently get brief power cuts

Whenever there is a powercut the emergency lights should come on just as
they do when the main lighting circuit fails.

here - a matter of a few seconds - and you don't always know they've
happened unless you are doing something sensitive. It might have been
that that made the emergency lights come on unexpectedly on the occasion
I describe above - could it have disabled some of them permanently too?

Only if the batteries in them were half dead so that after being fully
discharged they refused to recharge again. But in that case you would
expect the red charging/mains healthy LED to be lit.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In article , Martin Brown
wrote:
On 15/08/2017 11:19, Handsome Jack wrote:
Martin Brown posted
On 14/08/2017 08:44, Handsome Jack wrote:
Our village hall has several fire exits each with a luminaire that is
supposed to come on if the mains power fails. The other week they all
came on when we were leaving the hall after a function, and we
couldn't turn them off. Now - with the exception of exactly one of
them - they don't work at all, and the little red lights showing
that the battery is charging have gone out. Any suggestions as to
reason for failure?

The fuse or circuit breaker that provides mains to the emergency lamp
circuit has failed/tripped. Check the fusebox.

Can't see any tripped - and as I say, one of the luminaires is still
working, which you wouldn't expect if the trip had gone.

If one of them is working then check to see if that is the first in the
chain. You may well have a dodgy connection somewhere.

I am assuming here that you haven't omitted to mention a power cut.

Would that make a difference? We quite frequently get brief power cuts

Whenever there is a powercut the emergency lights should come on just as
they do when the main lighting circuit fails.

here - a matter of a few seconds - and you don't always know they've
happened unless you are doing something sensitive. It might have been
that that made the emergency lights come on unexpectedly on the
occasion I describe above - could it have disabled some of them
permanently too?

Only if the batteries in them were half dead so that after being fully
discharged they refused to recharge again. But in that case you would
expect the red charging/mains healthy LED to be lit.

with some units the red light means "battery charging" not "mains healthy".

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

In article , Martin Brown
wrote:
On 15/08/2017 11:19, Handsome Jack wrote:
Martin Brown posted
On 14/08/2017 08:44, Handsome Jack wrote:
Our village hall has several fire exits each with a luminaire that is
supposed to come on if the mains power fails. The other week they all
came on when we were leaving the hall after a function, and we
couldn't turn them off. Now - with the exception of exactly one of
them - they don't work at all, and the little red lights showing
that the battery is charging have gone out. Any suggestions as to
reason for failure?

The fuse or circuit breaker that provides mains to the emergency lamp
circuit has failed/tripped. Check the fusebox.

Can't see any tripped - and as I say, one of the luminaires is still
working, which you wouldn't expect if the trip had gone.

If one of them is working then check to see if that is the first in the
chain. You may well have a dodgy connection somewhere.

I am assuming here that you haven't omitted to mention a power cut.

Would that make a difference? We quite frequently get brief power cuts

Whenever there is a powercut the emergency lights should come on just as
they do when the main lighting circuit fails.

here - a matter of a few seconds - and you don't always know they've
happened unless you are doing something sensitive. It might have been
that that made the emergency lights come on unexpectedly on the
occasion I describe above - could it have disabled some of them
permanently too?

Only if the batteries in them were half dead so that after being fully
discharged they refused to recharge again. But in that case you would
expect the red charging/mains healthy LED to be lit.

Irrelevant to the fault: all emergency lighting needs to be tested every
year for the full 3 hours amd more frequently just to check it is working.
See BSS5266-8 And also "Fire Safety risk assessment for small & medium
places of assembly" - published by HMG (Dept for Communities and Local
Governemnt). Do bring this to the attention of your Hall committee, their
insurance might be void due to non-compliance.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

In article ,
Huge wrote:
In article , Martin Brown

[33 lines snipped]

Only if the batteries in them were half dead so that after being fully
discharged they refused to recharge again. But in that case you would
expect the red charging/mains healthy LED to be lit.

Slightly OT, but is anyone else ****ed off by equipment that shows a red
light to indicate it's working properly. Sometimes a *flashing* red light,
which is even worse! Red lights mean a fault!!!!

Early LEDs were only available in red. Most modern kit uses green. I'd say
that emergency lights showing red LEDs are rather elderly.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

Huge wrote:

is anyone else ****ed off by equipment that shows a red light to
indicate it's working properly. Sometimes a*flashing* red light,
which is even worse! Red lights mean a fault!!!!
Also equipment with no light to indicate it's ok and a white light to
indicate loss of mains power ... maybe I can blame dennis for that one?

On 15/08/2017 12:06, Huge wrote:
In article , Martin Brown

[33 lines snipped]

Only if the batteries in them were half dead so that after being fully
discharged they refused to recharge again. But in that case you would
expect the red charging/mains healthy LED to be lit.

Slightly OT, but is anyone else ****ed off by equipment that shows a red
light to indicate it's working properly. Sometimes a *flashing* red light,
which is even worse! Red lights mean a fault!!!!


Indeed. We have a PBX here with a flashing red "all is well" light
somwehere on it.

On Monday, 14 August 2017 08:44:30 UTC+1, Handsome Jack wrote:
Our village hall has several fire exits each with a luminaire that is
supposed to come on if the mains power fails. The other week they all
came on when we were leaving the hall after a function, and we couldn't
turn them off. Now - with the exception of exactly one of them - they
don't work at all, and the little red lights showing that the battery is
charging have gone out.

Any suggestions as to reason for failure?

Unless I've missed it you still haven't told us which units mains power is & is not reaching.


NT

On 15 Aug 2017 11:06:25 GMT, Huge wrote:


Slightly OT, but is anyone else ****ed off by equipment that shows a red
light to indicate it's working properly. Sometimes a *flashing* red light,
which is even worse! Red lights mean a fault!!!!



Red is a lucky colour in China.

A lot of equipment is manufactured in China

Red light means you are Lucky it is working.


G.Harman

On Friday, 18 August 2017 09:00:45 UTC+1, wrote:
Red is a lucky colour in China.
A lot of equipment is manufactured in China
Red light means you are Lucky it is working.

Red light means you are lucky the red light is working.

Owain