I'm fitting a 2nd toilet (ie pan and basin) in an old cloakroom downstairs for SWMBO. Wanting to be legal I applied for Building Regs Approval and the council guy told me because its a 'bathroom' I need Part P elec testing (I plan to wire in a light and spur for a macerator). Part P testing will cost approx £180 (I am time served and C&G2391 but not Part P).

In the IEE regs #701 a 'bathroom' is described as having a bath or shower hence my 2nd toilet room isn't a 'bathroom' so surely doesn't need Part P for that reason. Numerous Part P leaflets quote a bathroom or kitchen as requiring Part P but not a toilet room. Can anyone advise if I'm barking up the wrong tree? Don't want to spend £180 for Part P testing if its unnecessary.

Secondly he says as its a 'bathroom' I will have to fit an extractor which I don't want to as its on the front house wall (and will look crap) and we already have an openable window. Not sure whether this is building regs or IEE regs, I cant find it in the wiring regs.

Thanks

simon mitchelmore wrote:

In the IEE regs #701 a 'bathroom' is described as having a bath or
shower hence my 2nd toilet room isn't a 'bathroom' so surely doesn't
need Part P for that reason. Numerous Part P leaflets quote a
bathroom or kitchen as requiring Part P but not a toilet room.
Yeah, loads of old sites haven't been updated since the 2013 changes
where a kitchen is no longer a special location (assuming the house is
in England)

The part P approved document is free to download, but it says the same
as the regs i.e. if no bath, shower, sauna or swimming pool, it isn't a
special location.

On Sunday, 13 August 2017 10:14:54 UTC+1, simon mitchelmore wrote:
I'm fitting a 2nd toilet (ie pan and basin) in an old cloakroom downstairs
for SWMBO. Wanting to be legal I applied for Building Regs Approval and the
council guy told me because its a 'bathroom' I need Part P elec testing (I
plan to wire in a light and spur for a macerator). Part P testing will
cost approx £180 (I am time served and C&G2391 but not Part P).

There's no such thing as "Part P" qualification. All electrical work must comply with Part P, which basically means test and certify to IET Wiring Regs.

Work in bathrooms is *notifiable* if the person certifying is not also a member of a self-certification scheme.

If you have a C&G 2391 and the appropriate test equipment you are qualified to certify the work, and you are already notifying it.

Who is the council proposing carrying out this "Part P Test" for £180? And what sort of test is it going to be as such a thing is not recognised by the IET Wiring Regulations.

Secondly he says as its a 'bathroom' I will have to fit an extractor
which I don't want to as its on the front house wall (and will look
crap) and we already have an openable window. Not sure whether this
is building regs or IEE regs, I cant find it in the wiring regs.

You don't have to have the extract vent at high level on the house wall, you can drop an internal duct down (if you have suspended floors) and exit below floor level behind the flowerbeds, possibly going right through the house and exiting on the rear wall.

Owain

On Sunday, 13 August 2017 10:14:54 UTC+1, simon mitchelmore wrote:
I'm fitting a 2nd toilet (ie pan and basin) in an old cloakroom
downstairs for SWMBO. ... (I plan to wire in a light and spur
for a macerator).

It's not completely clear, but if you installed the wiring before the notifiable plumbing work, you wouldn't have to notify the wiring at all, as it would already exist! Then your Building Regs appl would simply be "connect macerator to existing fused spur, no electrical work required".

Owain

On 13/08/2017 10:14, simon mitchelmore wrote:

I'm fitting a 2nd toilet (ie pan and basin) in an old cloakroom
downstairs for SWMBO. Wanting to be legal I applied for Building Regs
Approval and the council guy told me because its a 'bathroom' I need
Part P elec testing (I plan to wire in a light and spur for a
macerator). Part P testing will cost approx £180 (I am time served
and C&G2391 but not Part P).

If its not got a bath or shower, its not a bathroom.

In the IEE regs #701 a 'bathroom' is described as having a bath or
shower hence my 2nd toilet room isn't a 'bathroom' so surely doesn't
need Part P for that reason. Numerous Part P leaflets quote a
bathroom or kitchen as requiring Part P but not a toilet room.

Kitchens were removed from the part P approved doc that was revised in
2013. The rest of the world is still catching up ;-)

Can
anyone advise if I'm barking up the wrong tree? Don't want to spend
£180 for Part P testing if its unnecessary.

No need to AFAICS... do the work, keep the test results just in case.

Secondly he says as its a 'bathroom' I will have to fit an extractor
which I don't want to as its on the front house wall (and will look
crap) and we already have an openable window. Not sure whether this
is building regs or IEE regs, I cant find it in the wiring regs.

Its not a wiring regs requirement.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 13/08/17 13:28, John Rumm wrote:

Secondly he says as its a 'bathroom' I will have to fit an extractor
which I don't want to as its on the front house wall (and will look
crap) and we already have an openable window. Not sure whether this
is building regs or IEE regs, I cant find it in the wiring regs.

Its not a wiring regs requirement.



OP - download the "Approved Documents" covering ventilation - you will
be able to confirm yourself.

Bathrooms/showerooms all now require extractor fans even if they have an
opening window - but that's for damp mostly.

Not sure about stand alone loos - but I suspect not?

On 13/08/2017 16:32, Tim Watts wrote:
On 13/08/17 13:28, John Rumm wrote:

Secondly he says as its a 'bathroom' I will have to fit an extractor
which I don't want to as its on the front house wall (and will look
crap) and we already have an openable window. Not sure whether this
is building regs or IEE regs, I cant find it in the wiring regs.

Its not a wiring regs requirement.



OP - download the "Approved Documents" covering ventilation - you will
be able to confirm yourself.

Bathrooms/showerooms all now require extractor fans even if they have an
opening window - but that's for damp mostly.

Not sure about stand alone loos - but I suspect not?

Suus cuique crepitus bene olet.

--
Max Demian

On Sunday, 13 August 2017 18:37:51 UTC+1, Max Demian wrote:
Suus cuique crepitus bene olet.

Nec verum est. Quibus communis opus locus aliquis odore suo quasi ægrotare pedit.

Owain

On 13/08/2017 20:22, wrote:
Nec verum est. Quibus communis opus locus aliquis odore suo quasi ægrotare pedit.

Proverbio antiquo Romanorum loquitur veritatem.

--
Max Demian

On Sunday, 13 August 2017 22:31:14 UTC+1, Max Demian wrote:
Proverbio antiquo Romanorum loquitur veritatem.

Veritas per mutat tempora, at iacet mendacium semper manebit.

Owain

On 14/08/2017 08:53, wrote:
Veritas per mutat tempora, at iacet mendacium semper manebit.

One of them being that a macerator is a good idea.

http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/humour.html#saniflo

Andy

On 13/08/2017 16:32, Tim Watts wrote:


Not sure about stand alone loos - but I suspect not?

Two weeks ago a BCO was on site at two different jobs I was doing.

1. A new build with a downstairs toilet, an opening window and no fan

2. A toilet extension with an opening window and no fan.

Both were happy with the setup. The toilet extension only got a minor
works certificate with no Part P notification.

--
Adam

On 19/08/17 10:14, ARW wrote:
On 13/08/2017 16:32, Tim Watts wrote:


Not sure about stand alone loos - but I suspect not?

Two weeks ago a BCO was on site at two different jobs I was doing.

1. A new build with a downstairs toilet, an opening window and no fan

2. A toilet extension with an opening window and no fan.

Both were happy with the setup. The toilet extension only got a minor
works certificate with no Part P notification.


I just started another thread, but this, which is as horse's mouth as it
gets says:

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload..._AD_P_2013.pdf

as far as I can tell, "notifiable only applies to zones 0,1 and 2.

As most ceilings are 2.25m high and zone 2 is 0.6m from the side of a
bath or shower tray, it turns out my main bathroom has nothing in a
"special location".

That should also give a definitive quotable reference for this thread's
OP too.

NB in Wales, "special location" appears to be any room containing a bath
or shower (or sauna, swimming pool etc).