When screwfix state use a 16mm hole with their ..


http://www.screwfix.com/p/easyfix-sh...m-5-pack/18356

and ye have a hefty ancient SDS* giving the bit lots of side wobble, use
a 14mm.

Or, should I update my SDS drill for cleaner holes?

* Old B&Q 750W £40 'power' something

--
Adrian C

Adrian Caspersz wrote:

When screwfix state use a 16mm hole with their ..


http://www.screwfix.com/p/easyfix-sh...-x-75mm-5-pack
/18356

and ye have a hefty ancient SDS* giving the bit lots of side wobble, use
a14mm.

Or, should I update my SDS drill for cleaner holes?

* Old B&Q 750W £40 'power' something

I find I get a much bigger hole in soft, friable bricks or blocks than I
do in slate. But then I use a cheap SDS drill and worn bits too. I
tend to try an undersized drill first with large frame fixings, I am
interested to know what others do.




--

Roger Hayter

On Thursday, 20 July 2017 21:36:29 UTC+1, Roger Hayter wrote:
I find I get a much bigger hole in soft, friable bricks or blocks than I
do in slate. But then I use a cheap SDS drill and worn bits too. I
tend to try an undersized drill first with large frame fixings, I am
interested to know what others do.

Earlier this week I was sticking matchsticks in the holes alongside the wallplugs and hoping for the best.

I suspect that not all 'red' wallplugs are the same size or expand equally.

Owain

On Thursday, July 20, 2017 at 9:36:29 PM UTC+1, Roger Hayter wrote:
Adrian Caspersz wrote:

When screwfix state use a 16mm hole with their ..


http://www.screwfix.com/p/easyfix-sh...-x-75mm-5-pack
/18356

and ye have a hefty ancient SDS* giving the bit lots of side wobble, use
a14mm.

Or, should I update my SDS drill for cleaner holes?

* Old B&Q 750W �40 'power' something

I find I get a much bigger hole in soft, friable bricks or blocks than I
do in slate. But then I use a cheap SDS drill and worn bits too. I
tend to try an undersized drill first with large frame fixings, I am
interested to know what others do.


I do the smaller drill bit thing too e.g. 5mm hole if the fixing specifies 6mm.

Halmyre wrote:
On Thursday, July 20, 2017 at 9:36:29 PM UTC+1, Roger Hayter wrote:
Adrian Caspersz wrote:

When screwfix state use a 16mm hole with their ..


http://www.screwfix.com/p/easyfix-sh...-x-75mm-5-pack
/18356

and ye have a hefty ancient SDS* giving the bit lots of side wobble, use
a14mm.

Or, should I update my SDS drill for cleaner holes?

* Old B&Q 750W �40 'power' something

I find I get a much bigger hole in soft, friable bricks or blocks than I
do in slate. But then I use a cheap SDS drill and worn bits too. I
tend to try an undersized drill first with large frame fixings, I am
interested to know what others do.


I do the smaller drill bit thing too e.g. 5mm hole if the fixing specifies 6mm.

Yes, I rarely drill the specified size hole, always a bit smaller. My
SDS drill box has drills (surprise!), a seletion of plugs *and* a
small hammer for tapping them in. My idea of a correctly installed
wall plug is one that needs to be tapped in gently.

--
Chris Green
·

"Chris Green" wrote in message
...
I do the smaller drill bit thing too e.g. 5mm hole if the fixing
specifies 6mm.

Yes, I rarely drill the specified size hole, always a bit smaller. My
SDS drill box has drills (surprise!), a seletion of plugs *and* a
small hammer for tapping them in. My idea of a correctly installed
wall plug is one that needs to be tapped in gently.

I drill a smaller hole because the drill always seems to make a bigger hole
that I expect due to some sideways "chatter" of the drill bit when I'm using
the hammer action. And I agree: if the rawlplug goes in easily, the hole is
a fraction too big.

Getting rawlplugs right is a bit of a black art in my experience. Either I
make the hole slightly too big and the plug rotates in the wall as I tighten
the screw. Or else the screw binds in the plug (presumably because the hole
isn't big enough to let the plug expand) and I can't tighten it any further
(spraying the screw with WD40 first helps to lessen this). That's using the
screws that came with the plugs, so presumably they *are* the correct size.

Getting oversize holes could be due to a bent drill, worn drill chuck, play in the motor shaft (dodgy bearing) or if an SDS drill a worn tool holder. As for wall plugs turning in the wall that could be down to incorrect plug for the material. The red, yellow and brown plugs (Rawl plug types and dervitives) these are not universal plugs, though commonly used and work in many situations they do have their limitations. Aerated concrete blocks are the worst for drilling and plugging, if you can get a fix the first time, undoing the screw and screwing back up the second time inevitably does not work. Fischer do the only one I ever found that secures well to aerated concrete, the plug has slow helical vanes and the plug is hammered in after drilling a pilot hole. I used these in the extension of our last house which had aerated concrete inner walls to hang kitchen cupboards and radiators and never had a failure. Our present bungalow has cinder type breeze blocks again I have not had issues with having to drill undersized holes or plugs turning.

Richard

On 21/07/2017 10:11, NY wrote:
"Chris Green" wrote in message
...
I do the smaller drill bit thing too e.g. 5mm hole if the fixing
specifies 6mm.

Yes, I rarely drill the specified size hole, always a bit smaller. My
SDS drill box has drills (surprise!), a seletion of plugs *and* a
small hammer for tapping them in. My idea of a correctly installed
wall plug is one that needs to be tapped in gently.

I drill a smaller hole because the drill always seems to make a bigger
hole that I expect due to some sideways "chatter" of the drill bit when
I'm using the hammer action. And I agree: if the rawlplug goes in
easily, the hole is a fraction too big.

Getting rawlplugs right is a bit of a black art in my experience. Either
I make the hole slightly too big and the plug rotates in the wall as I
tighten the screw. Or else the screw binds in the plug (presumably
because the hole isn't big enough to let the plug expand) and I can't
tighten it any further (spraying the screw with WD40 first helps to
lessen this). That's using the screws that came with the plugs, so
presumably they *are* the correct size.

I remember my dad using Rawlplastic -- very useful for holes that turned
out too big (or conical). I wonder if you can still get it? googles
No, full of asbestos.

On 21/07/17 10:57, Tricky Dicky wrote:
Getting oversize holes could be due to a bent drill, worn drill chuck, play in the motor shaft (dodgy bearing) or if an SDS drill a worn tool holder.

I think mine suffers from *all* of that, plus being held by a weedy
fellow with arm wobble for the hammer recoil. Remarkable sometimes that
there still is a wall standing nevermind overlarge holes!

I'll be shopping for a new drill, me thinks.

--
Adrian C

On Friday, 21 July 2017 11:24:59 UTC+1, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
Remarkable sometimes that
there still is a wall standing nevermind overlarge holes!

I've had a couple of bricks fall out when I've been sinking socket boxes and found myself looking into the next room, especially when the originals were mounted back to back for cheapness.

Owain

On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 11:10:47 +0100, A_lurker wrote:

On 21/07/2017 10:11, NY wrote:
"Chris Green" wrote in message
...
I do the smaller drill bit thing too e.g. 5mm hole if the fixing
specifies 6mm.

Yes, I rarely drill the specified size hole, always a bit smaller. My
SDS drill box has drills (surprise!), a seletion of plugs *and* a
small hammer for tapping them in. My idea of a correctly installed
wall plug is one that needs to be tapped in gently.

I drill a smaller hole because the drill always seems to make a bigger
hole that I expect due to some sideways "chatter" of the drill bit when
I'm using the hammer action. And I agree: if the rawlplug goes in
easily, the hole is a fraction too big.

Getting rawlplugs right is a bit of a black art in my experience.
Either I make the hole slightly too big and the plug rotates in the
wall as I tighten the screw. Or else the screw binds in the plug
(presumably because the hole isn't big enough to let the plug expand)
and I can't tighten it any further (spraying the screw with WD40 first
helps to lessen this). That's using the screws that came with the
plugs, so presumably they *are* the correct size.

I remember my dad using Rawlplastic -- very useful for holes that turned
out too big (or conical). I wonder if you can still get it? googles
No, full of asbestos.

I remember my dad using a Rawltool to make the holes!



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

In article ,
wrote:
On 21/07/2017 10:11, NY wrote:
"Chris Green" wrote in message
...
I do the smaller drill bit thing too e.g. 5mm hole if the fixing
specifies 6mm.

Yes, I rarely drill the specified size hole, always a bit smaller. My
SDS drill box has drills (surprise!), a seletion of plugs *and* a
small hammer for tapping them in. My idea of a correctly installed
wall plug is one that needs to be tapped in gently.

I drill a smaller hole because the drill always seems to make a bigger
hole that I expect due to some sideways "chatter" of the drill bit when
I'm using the hammer action. And I agree: if the rawlplug goes in
easily, the hole is a fraction too big.

Getting rawlplugs right is a bit of a black art in my experience.
Either I make the hole slightly too big and the plug rotates in the
wall as I tighten the screw. Or else the screw binds in the plug
(presumably because the hole isn't big enough to let the plug expand)
and I can't tighten it any further (spraying the screw with WD40 first
helps to lessen this). That's using the screws that came with the
plugs, so presumably they *are* the correct size.

I remember my dad using Rawlplastic -- very useful for holes that turned
out too big (or conical). I wonder if you can still get it? googles
No, full of asbestos.

I've still got about 1/3 of a tin left. Do you want it?

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

Bob Eager wrote:

I remember my dad using Rawlplastic -- very useful for holes that turned
out too big (or conical). I wonder if you can still get it? googles
No, full of asbestos.

I remember my dad using a Rawltool to make the holes!

I think I've still got one or two of them! I don't think I ever used
them, though I can (like you) remember my father using them.

--
Chris Green
·

On 21/07/2017 11:59, Bob Eager wrote:
On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 11:10:47 +0100, A_lurker wrote:

On 21/07/2017 10:11, NY wrote:
"Chris Green" wrote in message
...
I do the smaller drill bit thing too e.g. 5mm hole if the fixing
specifies 6mm.

Yes, I rarely drill the specified size hole, always a bit smaller. My
SDS drill box has drills (surprise!), a seletion of plugs *and* a
small hammer for tapping them in. My idea of a correctly installed
wall plug is one that needs to be tapped in gently.

I drill a smaller hole because the drill always seems to make a bigger
hole that I expect due to some sideways "chatter" of the drill bit when
I'm using the hammer action. And I agree: if the rawlplug goes in
easily, the hole is a fraction too big.

Getting rawlplugs right is a bit of a black art in my experience.
Either I make the hole slightly too big and the plug rotates in the
wall as I tighten the screw. Or else the screw binds in the plug
(presumably because the hole isn't big enough to let the plug expand)
and I can't tighten it any further (spraying the screw with WD40 first
helps to lessen this). That's using the screws that came with the
plugs, so presumably they *are* the correct size.

I remember my dad using Rawlplastic -- very useful for holes that turned
out too big (or conical). I wonder if you can still get it? googles
No, full of asbestos.

I remember my dad using a Rawltool to make the holes!




I was always seriously impressed by how well those work -- to the point
where I recently (probably means 25 years ago...) went searching and
bought one for myself. Often easier than usng a drill at the top of a
ladder. Certainly easier than using a corded drill with an extension
lead at the top of a ladder.

On 21/07/2017 12:06, charles wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
On 21/07/2017 10:11, NY wrote:
"Chris Green" wrote in message
...
I do the smaller drill bit thing too e.g. 5mm hole if the fixing
specifies 6mm.

Yes, I rarely drill the specified size hole, always a bit smaller. My
SDS drill box has drills (surprise!), a seletion of plugs *and* a
small hammer for tapping them in. My idea of a correctly installed
wall plug is one that needs to be tapped in gently.

I drill a smaller hole because the drill always seems to make a bigger
hole that I expect due to some sideways "chatter" of the drill bit when
I'm using the hammer action. And I agree: if the rawlplug goes in
easily, the hole is a fraction too big.

Getting rawlplugs right is a bit of a black art in my experience.
Either I make the hole slightly too big and the plug rotates in the
wall as I tighten the screw. Or else the screw binds in the plug
(presumably because the hole isn't big enough to let the plug expand)
and I can't tighten it any further (spraying the screw with WD40 first
helps to lessen this). That's using the screws that came with the
plugs, so presumably they *are* the correct size.

I remember my dad using Rawlplastic -- very useful for holes that turned
out too big (or conical). I wonder if you can still get it? googles
No, full of asbestos.

I've still got about 1/3 of a tin left. Do you want it?


Yes! No, no I mustn't. But thanks.

Adrian Caspersz wrote:
When screwfix state use a 16mm hole with their ..


http://www.screwfix.com/p/easyfix-sh...m-5-pack/18356

and ye have a hefty ancient SDS* giving the bit lots of side wobble,
use a 14mm.

Or, should I update my SDS drill for cleaner holes?

* Old B&Q 750W £40 'power' something

I can't believe anyone still uses these antiquated things, they've been
defunct for 15 years at least, same with the 'rawlbolts' mentioned elsewhere
in this thread.

Everyone just uses normal 'thunderbolt' masonry fixings if it's something
substantial like a wallplate holding a roof up, or masonry torx screws for
door frames, windows, tv brackets etc

no need for any plugs of any kind, they screw directly into brick, concrete,
stone etc and are half the price of non-functioning wall anchors

On 7/20/2017 9:36 PM, Roger Hayter wrote:
Adrian Caspersz wrote:

When screwfix state use a 16mm hole with their ..


http://www.screwfix.com/p/easyfix-sh...-x-75mm-5-pack
/18356

and ye have a hefty ancient SDS* giving the bit lots of side wobble, use
a14mm.

Or, should I update my SDS drill for cleaner holes?

* Old B&Q 750W £40 'power' something

I find I get a much bigger hole in soft, friable bricks or blocks than I
do in slate. But then I use a cheap SDS drill and worn bits too. I
tend to try an undersized drill first with large frame fixings, I am
interested to know what others do.




Exactly the same as you. Not just with SDS, I do the same with my mains
and cordless hammer drills.

On 7/21/2017 3:23 PM, Phil L wrote:
Adrian Caspersz wrote:
When screwfix state use a 16mm hole with their ..


http://www.screwfix.com/p/easyfix-sh...m-5-pack/18356

and ye have a hefty ancient SDS* giving the bit lots of side wobble,
use a 14mm.

Or, should I update my SDS drill for cleaner holes?

* Old B&Q 750W £40 'power' something

I can't believe anyone still uses these antiquated things, they've been
defunct for 15 years at least, same with the 'rawlbolts' mentioned elsewhere
in this thread.

Everyone just uses normal 'thunderbolt' masonry fixings if it's something
substantial like a wallplate holding a roof up, or masonry torx screws for
door frames, windows, tv brackets etc

no need for any plugs of any kind, they screw directly into brick, concrete,
stone etc and are half the price of non-functioning wall anchors


Agree up to a point.

I'm a big fan of multi-montis, which can be removed and replaced a
couple of times.

But I have one or two locations with traditional rawlbolts, because the
bolts can normally be quickly removed and replaced if necessary. (I have
a trellis on top of a wall that comes off if I have a builders merchant
delivering a bag or pallet with a crane lorry).

On 21/07/2017 11:59, Bob Eager wrote:
I remember my dad using a Rawltool to make the holes!

I still do occasionally. It's hard work, but it'll drill anything.

Perhaps I ought to buy an SDS. But I need to build the workshop first.

Andy