I have a large custom made 2nd floor window which forms virtually the
entire end wall of what was an attic room. All architect designed, and it
does what I wanted perfectly. Lots of lovely light.

The load bearing frame is made from 4x2" timbers, dividing the window into
15 off 22inch square double glazed units (3 rows of 5)

The glazing units are fixed on both sides by what I think it called Staff
Bead, mitred to fit and pinned in place.

Most of those beads on the outside have rotted. Despite having been
painted regularly. Which isn't an easy job as there is a conservatory
underneath which means scaffolding.

The structural frame appears to still be in very good condition. So I'm
assuming water finds its way behind the bead and causes it to rot.

Any suggestions for a better material/shape for those glazing beads? PVC?
Hardwood? Material cost isn't much of an issue given the overall costs of
getting at them and painting etc. A bit of Googling shows companies who
sell a wood/PVC mixture supplied primed. But I've no experience of this,
hence the questions.

It faces almost due south and is as exposed as it could be. So
recommendations for the best paint to use (white) would be good too.

--
*Virtual reality is its own reward *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I have a large custom made 2nd floor window which forms virtually the
entire end wall of what was an attic room. All architect designed,
and it does what I wanted perfectly. Lots of lovely light.

The load bearing frame is made from 4x2" timbers, dividing the window
into 15 off 22inch square double glazed units (3 rows of 5)

The glazing units are fixed on both sides by what I think it called
Staff Bead, mitred to fit and pinned in place.

Most of those beads on the outside have rotted. Despite having been
painted regularly. Which isn't an easy job as there is a conservatory
underneath which means scaffolding.

The structural frame appears to still be in very good condition. So
I'm assuming water finds its way behind the bead and causes it to rot.

Any suggestions for a better material/shape for those glazing beads?
PVC? Hardwood? Material cost isn't much of an issue given the overall
costs of getting at them and painting etc. A bit of Googling shows
companies who sell a wood/PVC mixture supplied primed. But I've no
experience of this, hence the questions.

It faces almost due south and is as exposed as it could be. So
recommendations for the best paint to use (white) would be good too.

It's not the beads that are at fault, it's the poor sealant between bead and
glass which causes them to rot. If silicone is used, often it has gaps which
allow water in but not out, and putty tends to crack. Better to use a
glazing compound (butyl or similar) which doesn't set and therefore doesn't
crack.
Also, I'd go for softwood beads as hardwoods are horrible when painted. I'd
give them all a few coats of preserver once cut to size (so that the cut
ends get coated too) and then a few undercoats, then whatever topcoat you
desire.

On Monday, April 17, 2017 at 1:20:28 PM UTC+1, Phil L wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I have a large custom made 2nd floor window which forms virtually the
entire end wall of what was an attic room. All architect designed,
and it does what I wanted perfectly. Lots of lovely light.

The load bearing frame is made from 4x2" timbers, dividing the window
into 15 off 22inch square double glazed units (3 rows of 5)

The glazing units are fixed on both sides by what I think it called
Staff Bead, mitred to fit and pinned in place.

Most of those beads on the outside have rotted. Despite having been
painted regularly. Which isn't an easy job as there is a conservatory
underneath which means scaffolding.

The structural frame appears to still be in very good condition. So
I'm assuming water finds its way behind the bead and causes it to rot.

Any suggestions for a better material/shape for those glazing beads?
PVC? Hardwood? Material cost isn't much of an issue given the overall
costs of getting at them and painting etc. A bit of Googling shows
companies who sell a wood/PVC mixture supplied primed. But I've no
experience of this, hence the questions.

It faces almost due south and is as exposed as it could be. So
recommendations for the best paint to use (white) would be good too.

It's not the beads that are at fault, it's the poor sealant between bead and
glass which causes them to rot. If silicone is used, often it has gaps which
allow water in but not out, and putty tends to crack. Better to use a
glazing compound (butyl or similar) which doesn't set and therefore doesn't
crack.
Also, I'd go for softwood beads as hardwoods are horrible when painted. I'd
give them all a few coats of preserver once cut to size (so that the cut
ends get coated too) and then a few undercoats, then whatever topcoat you
desire.

'Hardwoods are horrible when painted ' ? What nonsense is this. Painted wood whether hardood or softwood all looks the same.

On the other hand our last house had treated softwood windows which despite regiular painiting began to fail after 10 years. I struggled for a few yeasr then decided to call it quits and moved. New owner installed plastic jobbies

Current house has hardwood window and door frames which are painted every 3-4 years and have nary a sign of rot

On Monday, April 17, 2017 at 1:44:53 PM UTC+1, fred wrote:
On Monday, April 17, 2017 at 1:20:28 PM UTC+1, Phil L wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I have a large custom made 2nd floor window which forms virtually the
entire end wall of what was an attic room. All architect designed,
and it does what I wanted perfectly. Lots of lovely light.

The load bearing frame is made from 4x2" timbers, dividing the window
into 15 off 22inch square double glazed units (3 rows of 5)

The glazing units are fixed on both sides by what I think it called
Staff Bead, mitred to fit and pinned in place.

Most of those beads on the outside have rotted. Despite having been
painted regularly. Which isn't an easy job as there is a conservatory
underneath which means scaffolding.

The structural frame appears to still be in very good condition. So
I'm assuming water finds its way behind the bead and causes it to rot.

Any suggestions for a better material/shape for those glazing beads?
PVC? Hardwood? Material cost isn't much of an issue given the overall
costs of getting at them and painting etc. A bit of Googling shows
companies who sell a wood/PVC mixture supplied primed. But I've no
experience of this, hence the questions.

It faces almost due south and is as exposed as it could be. So
recommendations for the best paint to use (white) would be good too.

It's not the beads that are at fault, it's the poor sealant between bead and
glass which causes them to rot. If silicone is used, often it has gaps which
allow water in but not out, and putty tends to crack. Better to use a
glazing compound (butyl or similar) which doesn't set and therefore doesn't
crack.
Also, I'd go for softwood beads as hardwoods are horrible when painted. I'd
give them all a few coats of preserver once cut to size (so that the cut
ends get coated too) and then a few undercoats, then whatever topcoat you
desire.

'Hardwoods are horrible when painted ' ? What nonsense is this. Painted wood whether hardood or softwood all looks the same.

On the other hand our last house had treated softwood windows which despite regiular painiting began to fail after 10 years. I struggled for a few yeasr then decided to call it quits and moved. New owner installed plastic jobbies

Current house has hardwood window and door frames which are painted every 3-4 years and have nary a sign of rot

Sorry, ment to say theses hardwood windows and doors are close to 18 years old now

On Monday, April 17, 2017 at 1:44:53 PM UTC+1, fred wrote:
On Monday, April 17, 2017 at 1:20:28 PM UTC+1, Phil L wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I have a large custom made 2nd floor window which forms virtually the
entire end wall of what was an attic room. All architect designed,
and it does what I wanted perfectly. Lots of lovely light.

The load bearing frame is made from 4x2" timbers, dividing the window
into 15 off 22inch square double glazed units (3 rows of 5)

The glazing units are fixed on both sides by what I think it called
Staff Bead, mitred to fit and pinned in place.

Most of those beads on the outside have rotted. Despite having been
painted regularly. Which isn't an easy job as there is a conservatory
underneath which means scaffolding.

The structural frame appears to still be in very good condition. So
I'm assuming water finds its way behind the bead and causes it to rot.

Any suggestions for a better material/shape for those glazing beads?
PVC? Hardwood? Material cost isn't much of an issue given the overall
costs of getting at them and painting etc. A bit of Googling shows
companies who sell a wood/PVC mixture supplied primed. But I've no
experience of this, hence the questions.

It faces almost due south and is as exposed as it could be. So
recommendations for the best paint to use (white) would be good too.

It's not the beads that are at fault, it's the poor sealant between bead and
glass which causes them to rot. If silicone is used, often it has gaps which
allow water in but not out, and putty tends to crack. Better to use a
glazing compound (butyl or similar) which doesn't set and therefore doesn't
crack.
Also, I'd go for softwood beads as hardwoods are horrible when painted. I'd
give them all a few coats of preserver once cut to size (so that the cut
ends get coated too) and then a few undercoats, then whatever topcoat you
desire.

'Hardwoods are horrible when painted ' ? What nonsense is this. Painted wood whether hardood or softwood all looks the same.

On the other hand our last house had treated softwood windows which despite regiular painiting began to fail after 10 years. I struggled for a few yeasr then decided to call it quits and moved. New owner installed plastic jobbies

Current house has hardwood window and door frames which are painted every 3-4 years and have nary a sign of rot

Phil L wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I have a large custom made 2nd floor window which forms virtually the
entire end wall of what was an attic room. All architect designed,
and it does what I wanted perfectly. Lots of lovely light.

The load bearing frame is made from 4x2" timbers, dividing the window
into 15 off 22inch square double glazed units (3 rows of 5)

The glazing units are fixed on both sides by what I think it called
Staff Bead, mitred to fit and pinned in place.

Most of those beads on the outside have rotted. Despite having been
painted regularly. Which isn't an easy job as there is a conservatory
underneath which means scaffolding.

The structural frame appears to still be in very good condition. So
I'm assuming water finds its way behind the bead and causes it to rot.

Any suggestions for a better material/shape for those glazing beads?
PVC? Hardwood? Material cost isn't much of an issue given the overall
costs of getting at them and painting etc. A bit of Googling shows
companies who sell a wood/PVC mixture supplied primed. But I've no
experience of this, hence the questions.

It faces almost due south and is as exposed as it could be. So
recommendations for the best paint to use (white) would be good too.

It's not the beads that are at fault, it's the poor sealant between bead and
glass which causes them to rot. If silicone is used, often it has gaps which
allow water in but not out, and putty tends to crack. Better to use a
glazing compound (butyl or similar) which doesn't set and therefore doesn't
crack.
Also, I'd go for softwood beads as hardwoods are horrible when painted. I'd
give them all a few coats of preserver once cut to size (so that the cut
ends get coated too) and then a few undercoats, then whatever topcoat you
desire.


Make the new beads from Accoya. This is acetylised softwood and won't
rot for a very log time. It takes paint very well
Easy enough to make if you have a table saw to cut three right angle
faces and one chamfered face.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I have a large custom made 2nd floor window which forms virtually the
entire end wall of what was an attic room. All architect designed, and it
does what I wanted perfectly. Lots of lovely light.

The load bearing frame is made from 4x2" timbers, dividing the window into
15 off 22inch square double glazed units (3 rows of 5)

The glazing units are fixed on both sides by what I think it called Staff
Bead, mitred to fit and pinned in place.

Most of those beads on the outside have rotted. Despite having been
painted regularly. Which isn't an easy job as there is a conservatory
underneath which means scaffolding.

The structural frame appears to still be in very good condition. So I'm
assuming water finds its way behind the bead and causes it to rot.

Any suggestions for a better material/shape for those glazing beads? PVC?
Hardwood? Material cost isn't much of an issue given the overall costs of
getting at them and painting etc. A bit of Googling shows companies who
sell a wood/PVC mixture supplied primed. But I've no experience of this,
hence the questions.

It faces almost due south and is as exposed as it could be. So
recommendations for the best paint to use (white) would be good too.


I'd go for some foamed plastic beading as used for trimming internally.
You can get white, about 10mm x 10mm triangularish section. Probably a
bit of acrylic filler would seal it in place, with a few stainless pins
for good measure.

Bob Minchin wrote:
Make the new beads from Accoya. This is acetylised softwood and won't
rot for a very log time. It takes paint very well
Easy enough to make if you have a table saw to cut three right angle
faces and one chamfered face.

They don't *really* need one chamfered face and you could always start
with square and use a plane to slope one face a bit. I guess the
bottom bead is better with a chamfer to run the water off.

--
Chris Green
·

In article ,
Chris Green wrote:
Bob Minchin wrote:
Make the new beads from Accoya. This is acetylised softwood and won't
rot for a very log time. It takes paint very well
Easy enough to make if you have a table saw to cut three right angle
faces and one chamfered face.

They don't *really* need one chamfered face and you could always start
with square and use a plane to slope one face a bit. I guess the
bottom bead is better with a chamfer to run the water off.

Seems it is possible to buy Accoya staff bead ready made. No point in
making it is it already exists. Or would a different cross section be
longer lasting as such?

--
*If at first you do succeed, try not to look too astonished.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Phil L wrote:
It's not the beads that are at fault, it's the poor sealant between bead
and glass which causes them to rot. If silicone is used, often it has
gaps which allow water in but not out, and putty tends to crack. Better
to use a glazing compound (butyl or similar) which doesn't set and
therefore doesn't crack.

Can it be painted over? Or does it come in white? The idea of a non
setting compound oozing out doesn't delight. ;-)

--
*My luck is so bad that if I bought a cemetery, people would stop dying.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Phil L wrote:
It's not the beads that are at fault, it's the poor sealant between
bead and glass which causes them to rot. If silicone is used, often
it has gaps which allow water in but not out, and putty tends to
crack. Better to use a glazing compound (butyl or similar) which
doesn't set and therefore doesn't crack.

Can it be painted over? Or does it come in white? The idea of a non
setting compound oozing out doesn't delight. ;-)

It can be painted over when it forms a skin, usually about a week.

Not seen it in white, it's usually brown

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Chris Green wrote:
Bob Minchin wrote:
Make the new beads from Accoya. This is acetylised softwood and won't
rot for a very log time. It takes paint very well
Easy enough to make if you have a table saw to cut three right angle
faces and one chamfered face.

They don't *really* need one chamfered face and you could always start
with square and use a plane to slope one face a bit. I guess the
bottom bead is better with a chamfer to run the water off.

Seems it is possible to buy Accoya staff bead ready made. No point in
making it is it already exists. Or would a different cross section be
longer lasting as such?

Unlikely they wouldn’t be using the best cross section already.

In article ,
Phil L wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Phil L wrote:
It's not the beads that are at fault, it's the poor sealant between
bead and glass which causes them to rot. If silicone is used, often
it has gaps which allow water in but not out, and putty tends to
crack. Better to use a glazing compound (butyl or similar) which
doesn't set and therefore doesn't crack.

Can it be painted over? Or does it come in white? The idea of a non
setting compound oozing out doesn't delight. ;-)

It can be painted over when it forms a skin, usually about a week.

Not seen it in white, it's usually brown

Is there a best buy brand? Do Toolstation etc sell it? What to ask for?

--
*A bartender is just a pharmacist with a limited inventory.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 17/04/2017 13:50, Capitol wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I have a large custom made 2nd floor window which forms virtually the
entire end wall of what was an attic room. All architect designed, and it
does what I wanted perfectly. Lots of lovely light.

The load bearing frame is made from 4x2" timbers, dividing the window
into
15 off 22inch square double glazed units (3 rows of 5)

The glazing units are fixed on both sides by what I think it called Staff
Bead, mitred to fit and pinned in place.

Most of those beads on the outside have rotted. Despite having been
painted regularly. Which isn't an easy job as there is a conservatory
underneath which means scaffolding.

The structural frame appears to still be in very good condition. So I'm
assuming water finds its way behind the bead and causes it to rot.

Any suggestions for a better material/shape for those glazing beads? PVC?
Hardwood? Material cost isn't much of an issue given the overall costs of
getting at them and painting etc. A bit of Googling shows companies who
sell a wood/PVC mixture supplied primed. But I've no experience of this,
hence the questions.

It faces almost due south and is as exposed as it could be. So
recommendations for the best paint to use (white) would be good too.


I'd go for some foamed plastic beading as used for trimming
internally. You can get white, about 10mm x 10mm triangularish section.
Probably a bit of acrylic filler would seal it in place, with a few
stainless pins for good measure.

Accoya sounds like the business. IME no wooden beading stands a chance
in a south facing aspect, whatever the species and however it's treated.
Memories of various Magnet windows come flooding back

On 18/04/2017 14:24, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Phil L wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Phil L wrote:
It's not the beads that are at fault, it's the poor sealant between
bead and glass which causes them to rot. If silicone is used, often
it has gaps which allow water in but not out, and putty tends to
crack. Better to use a glazing compound (butyl or similar) which
doesn't set and therefore doesn't crack.

Can it be painted over? Or does it come in white? The idea of a non
setting compound oozing out doesn't delight. ;-)

It can be painted over when it forms a skin, usually about a week.

Not seen it in white, it's usually brown

Is there a best buy brand? Do Toolstation etc sell it? What to ask for?

The normal method for fitting DG units to a timber frame is to mount
them dry-vented.

First seal the frame using something dulux weathershield high
performance primer or their equivalent base coat sealer for hardwood
doors or windows, or use the stuff the pros use, like Teknos

more details here :-

http://roncurrie.co.uk/treatment-instructions

http://www.teknos.com/news/painting-wood-archive/

Then mount the DG units on plastic or fibre spacers leaving a 3mm gap
all around. It is usual to actually stick the DG unit to the back
of the rebate with double-sided butyl tape. Stick the glazing bars
to the front of the glass using the same stuff and pin then to the
frame with stainless stell pins. Run a bead of clear low-modulus
silicon around the junction between beading and glass. Done.

Take a look at the pictures of Ron Curries bespoke timber windows
for more details.

Andrew Wrote in message:
On 18/04/2017 14:24, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Phil L wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Phil L wrote:
It's not the beads that are at fault, it's the poor sealant between
bead and glass which causes them to rot. If silicone is used, often
it has gaps which allow water in but not out, and putty tends to
crack. Better to use a glazing compound (butyl or similar) which
doesn't set and therefore doesn't crack.

Can it be painted over? Or does it come in white? The idea of a non
setting compound oozing out doesn't delight. ;-)

It can be painted over when it forms a skin, usually about a week.

Not seen it in white, it's usually brown

Is there a best buy brand? Do Toolstation etc sell it? What to ask for?

The normal method for fitting DG units to a timber frame is to mount
them dry-vented.

First seal the frame using something dulux weathershield high
performance primer or their equivalent base coat sealer for hardwood
doors or windows, or use the stuff the pros use, like Teknos

more details here :-

http://roncurrie.co.uk/treatment-instructions

http://www.teknos.com/news/painting-wood-archive/

Then mount the DG units on plastic or fibre spacers leaving a 3mm gap
all around. It is usual to actually stick the DG unit to the back
of the rebate with double-sided butyl tape. Stick the glazing bars
to the front of the glass using the same stuff and pin then to the
frame with stainless stell pins.

+1
Even better if the bottom of the rebate is machined/shaped to
slope down & outwards, wedge shaped DG unit spacers & hockey
stick beads are used at the bottom I.e. the DG unit is mounted
"drained & vented"...
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

jim k Wrote in message:
Andrew Wrote in message:
On 18/04/2017 14:24, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Phil L wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Phil L wrote:
It's not the beads that are at fault, it's the poor sealant between
bead and glass which causes them to rot. If silicone is used, often
it has gaps which allow water in but not out, and putty tends to
crack. Better to use a glazing compound (butyl or similar) which
doesn't set and therefore doesn't crack.

Can it be painted over? Or does it come in white? The idea of a non
setting compound oozing out doesn't delight. ;-)

It can be painted over when it forms a skin, usually about a week.

Not seen it in white, it's usually brown

Is there a best buy brand? Do Toolstation etc sell it? What to ask for?

The normal method for fitting DG units to a timber frame is to mount
them dry-vented.

First seal the frame using something dulux weathershield high
performance primer or their equivalent base coat sealer for hardwood
doors or windows, or use the stuff the pros use, like Teknos

more details here :-

http://roncurrie.co.uk/treatment-instructions

http://www.teknos.com/news/painting-wood-archive/

Then mount the DG units on plastic or fibre spacers leaving a 3mm gap
all around. It is usual to actually stick the DG unit to the back
of the rebate with double-sided butyl tape. Stick the glazing bars
to the front of the glass using the same stuff and pin then to the
frame with stainless stell pins.

+1
Even better if the bottom of the rebate is machined/shaped to
slope down & outwards, wedge shaped DG unit spacers & hockey
stick beads are used at the bottom I.e. the DG unit is mounted
"drained & vented"...

Oops! space the hockey stick bead up of the sloped rebate with
some plastic packers to allow the venting.
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

In article ,
Andrew wrote:
Then mount the DG units on plastic or fibre spacers leaving a 3mm gap
all around. It is usual to actually stick the DG unit to the back
of the rebate with double-sided butyl tape. Stick the glazing bars
to the front of the glass using the same stuff and pin then to the
frame with stainless stell pins. Run a bead of clear low-modulus
silicon around the junction between beading and glass. Done.

So what you're saying is Phil's method of using a butyl glazing compound
isn't correct?

--
*Why is 'abbreviation' such a long word?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" Wrote in message:
In article ,
Andrew wrote:
Then mount the DG units on plastic or fibre spacers leaving a 3mm gap
all around. It is usual to actually stick the DG unit to the back
of the rebate with double-sided butyl tape. Stick the glazing bars
to the front of the glass using the same stuff and pin then to the
frame with stainless stell pins. Run a bead of clear low-modulus
silicon around the junction between beading and glass. Done.

So what you're saying is Phil's method of using a butyl glazing compound
isn't correct?


Butyl tape
Butyl compound
Let's call the whole thing off?

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

In article ,
jim k wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" Wrote in message:
In article ,
Andrew wrote:
Then mount the DG units on plastic or fibre spacers leaving a 3mm gap
all around. It is usual to actually stick the DG unit to the back
of the rebate with double-sided butyl tape. Stick the glazing bars
to the front of the glass using the same stuff and pin then to the
frame with stainless stell pins. Run a bead of clear low-modulus
silicon around the junction between beading and glass. Done.

So what you're saying is Phil's method of using a butyl glazing
compound isn't correct?


Butyl tape
Butyl compound
Let's call the whole thing off?

I'm easily confused. Tape may be fine for holding the glass in - which
isn't the problem here - but isn't going to seal the bead all the way
round. And it's short bead life which is my problem.

--
*Procrastination is the art of keeping up with yesterday.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 19/04/2017 10:06, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I'm easily confused. Tape may be fine for holding the glass in - which
isn't the problem here - but isn't going to seal the bead all the way
round. And it's short bead life which is my problem.

I'm confused as to why uPVC bead is deprecated.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 19/04/2017 10:06, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
jim k wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" Wrote in message:
In article ,
Andrew wrote:
Then mount the DG units on plastic or fibre spacers leaving a 3mm gap
all around. It is usual to actually stick the DG unit to the back
of the rebate with double-sided butyl tape. Stick the glazing bars
to the front of the glass using the same stuff and pin then to the
frame with stainless stell pins. Run a bead of clear low-modulus
silicon around the junction between beading and glass. Done.

So what you're saying is Phil's method of using a butyl glazing
compound isn't correct?


Butyl tape
Butyl compound
Let's call the whole thing off?

I'm easily confused. Tape may be fine for holding the glass in - which
isn't the problem here - but isn't going to seal the bead all the way
round. And it's short bead life which is my problem.

I assume this beading is on the outside ?. If so, then its just
poor quality timber combined with the fact that it faces the
prevailing wind, rain and sun.

Ron Curries clearance page lists some hardwood beading, if thats
any help, but the main problem is Dulux Weathershield high performance
primer is now water based (since VOC 2010) so using it on oily, not-
so-porous hardwoods is tricky.

Pre-soaking new beading in clear cuprinol and allowing a full week
to dry before sealing *all* sides including the cut end before
pinning into place might extend their lives.

If they are rotting to quickly then water is seeping into a gap
between two bits of wood or between wood and glass and it is just
sitting there. Hence the reason why modern DG units in timber
windows are dry installed so the any water that gets behind the
bead can drop down and drip out under the bottom J moulding.

In article ,
Andrew wrote:
I'm easily confused. Tape may be fine for holding the glass in - which
isn't the problem here - but isn't going to seal the bead all the way
round. And it's short bead life which is my problem.

I assume this beading is on the outside ?. If so, then its just
poor quality timber combined with the fact that it faces the
prevailing wind, rain and sun.

Odd then the timber frame to the window has lasted very well. Originally
when it was constructed, all the timber used came from the same merchant.

--
*Errors have been made. Others will be blamed.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 19/04/2017 13:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Andrew wrote:
I'm easily confused. Tape may be fine for holding the glass in - which
isn't the problem here - but isn't going to seal the bead all the way
round. And it's short bead life which is my problem.

I assume this beading is on the outside ?. If so, then its just
poor quality timber combined with the fact that it faces the
prevailing wind, rain and sun.

Odd then the timber frame to the window has lasted very well. Originally
when it was constructed, all the timber used came from the same merchant.


Small sections never last long, but when the bead is machined on the
edge of a larger section (as it is in proper joinery) it has a much
longer life

Andrew Wrote in message:
On 19/04/2017 10:06, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
jim k wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" Wrote in message:
In article ,
Andrew wrote:
Then mount the DG units on plastic or fibre spacers leaving a 3mm gap
all around. It is usual to actually stick the DG unit to the back
of the rebate with double-sided butyl tape. Stick the glazing bars
to the front of the glass using the same stuff and pin then to the
frame with stainless stell pins. Run a bead of clear low-modulus
silicon around the junction between beading and glass. Done.

So what you're saying is Phil's method of using a butyl glazing
compound isn't correct?


Butyl tape
Butyl compound
Let's call the whole thing off?

I'm easily confused. Tape may be fine for holding the glass in - which
isn't the problem here - but isn't going to seal the bead all the way
round. And it's short bead life which is my problem.

I assume this beading is on the outside ?. If so, then its just
poor quality timber combined with the fact that it faces the
prevailing wind, rain and sun.

Ron Curries clearance page lists some hardwood beading, if thats
any help, but the main problem is Dulux Weathershield high performance
primer is now water based (since VOC 2010) so using it on oily, not-
so-porous hardwoods is tricky.

Pre-soaking new beading in clear cuprinol and allowing a full week
to dry before sealing *all* sides including the cut end before
pinning into place might extend their lives.

If they are rotting to quickly then water is seeping into a gap
between two bits of wood or between wood and glass and it is just
sitting there. Hence the reason why modern DG units in timber
windows are dry installed so the any water that gets behind the
bead can drop down and drip out under the bottom J moulding.



Wot I said.
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

"Dave Plowman (News)" Wrote in message:
In article ,
Andrew wrote:
I'm easily confused. Tape may be fine for holding the glass in - which
isn't the problem here - but isn't going to seal the bead all the way
round. And it's short bead life which is my problem.

I assume this beading is on the outside ?. If so, then its just
poor quality timber combined with the fact that it faces the
prevailing wind, rain and sun.

Odd then the timber frame to the window has lasted very well. Originally
when it was constructed, all the timber used came from the same merchant.



?
Was anything else about it the same?
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

In article ,
Stuart Noble wrote:
On 19/04/2017 13:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Andrew wrote:
I'm easily confused. Tape may be fine for holding the glass in - which
isn't the problem here - but isn't going to seal the bead all the way
round. And it's short bead life which is my problem.

I assume this beading is on the outside ?. If so, then its just
poor quality timber combined with the fact that it faces the
prevailing wind, rain and sun.

Odd then the timber frame to the window has lasted very well.
Originally when it was constructed, all the timber used came from the
same merchant.


Small sections never last long, but when the bead is machined on the
edge of a larger section (as it is in proper joinery) it has a much
longer life

The same staff bead is used on all the original sash windows in this
Victorian house. Some has obviously been replaced over the years - but non
has rotted in short order like this stuff.

--
*That's it! I‘m calling grandma!

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
jim k wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" Wrote in message:
In article ,
Andrew wrote:
I'm easily confused. Tape may be fine for holding the glass in - which
isn't the problem here - but isn't going to seal the bead all the way
round. And it's short bead life which is my problem.

I assume this beading is on the outside ?. If so, then its just
poor quality timber combined with the fact that it faces the
prevailing wind, rain and sun.

Odd then the timber frame to the window has lasted very well.
Originally when it was constructed, all the timber used came from the
same merchant.




Not quite sure what you mean. The window was constructed on site by the
chippy employed by the building firm doing the alterations.

--
*I never drink water because of the disgusting things that fish do in it..

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 19/04/2017 14:29, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Stuart Noble wrote:
On 19/04/2017 13:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Andrew wrote:
I'm easily confused. Tape may be fine for holding the glass in - which
isn't the problem here - but isn't going to seal the bead all the way
round. And it's short bead life which is my problem.

I assume this beading is on the outside ?. If so, then its just
poor quality timber combined with the fact that it faces the
prevailing wind, rain and sun.

Odd then the timber frame to the window has lasted very well.
Originally when it was constructed, all the timber used came from the
same merchant.


Small sections never last long, but when the bead is machined on the
edge of a larger section (as it is in proper joinery) it has a much
longer life

The same staff bead is used on all the original sash windows in this
Victorian house. Some has obviously been replaced over the years - but non
has rotted in short order like this stuff.


The classic Vic sliding sash normally has putty on the outside. The
staff bead is on the inside. Parting beads are invariably rotten at the
bottom, mainly because they are a separate and very thin section

"Dave Plowman (News)" Wrote in message:
In article ,
Stuart Noble wrote:
On 19/04/2017 13:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Andrew wrote:
I'm easily confused. Tape may be fine for holding the glass in - which
isn't the problem here - but isn't going to seal the bead all the way
round. And it's short bead life which is my problem.

I assume this beading is on the outside ?. If so, then its just
poor quality timber combined with the fact that it faces the
prevailing wind, rain and sun.

Odd then the timber frame to the window has lasted very well.
Originally when it was constructed, all the timber used came from the
same merchant.


Small sections never last long, but when the bead is machined on the
edge of a larger section (as it is in proper joinery) it has a much
longer life

The same staff bead is used on all the original sash windows in this
Victorian house. Some has obviously been replaced over the years - but non
has rotted in short order like this stuff.


Staff beads are used internally to hold the lower inner sash in
place & allow it to slide (so not too tight!).

Why would you want to use them outside? No wonder they rot quick...
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

"Dave Plowman (News)" Wrote in message:
In article ,
jim k wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" Wrote in message:
In article ,
Andrew wrote:
I'm easily confused. Tape may be fine for holding the glass in - which
isn't the problem here - but isn't going to seal the bead all the way
round. And it's short bead life which is my problem.

I assume this beading is on the outside ?. If so, then its just
poor quality timber combined with the fact that it faces the
prevailing wind, rain and sun.

Odd then the timber frame to the window has lasted very well.
Originally when it was constructed, all the timber used came from the
same merchant.




Not quite sure what you mean. The window was constructed on site by the
chippy employed by the building firm doing the alterations.


You snipped my.point but for others benefit I was observing that
apart from the same firm sold it, what connection does the
framework timber have with the failing beading timber you are on
about?
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

In article ,
Stuart Noble wrote:
The same staff bead is used on all the original sash windows in this
Victorian house. Some has obviously been replaced over the years - but
non has rotted in short order like this stuff.


The classic Vic sliding sash normally has putty on the outside.

Eh? You need an outside runner for the top sash too. I've seen staff bead
used for that.

The
staff bead is on the inside. Parting beads are invariably rotten at the
bottom, mainly because they are a separate and very thin section

--
*Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
jim k wrote:
The same staff bead is used on all the original sash windows in this
Victorian house. Some has obviously been replaced over the years - but non
has rotted in short order like this stuff.


Staff beads are used internally to hold the lower inner sash in
place & allow it to slide (so not too tight!).

Why would you want to use them outside? No wonder they rot quick...

What would you use for the top sash runner?

--
*How many roads must a man travel down before he admits he is lost? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" Wrote in message:
In article ,
jim k wrote:
The same staff bead is used on all the original sash windows in this
Victorian house. Some has obviously been replaced over the years - but non
has rotted in short order like this stuff.


Staff beads are used internally to hold the lower inner sash in
place & allow it to slide (so not too tight!).

Why would you want to use them outside? No wonder they rot quick...

What would you use for the top sash runner?


Er.. The front of the box frame??
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

"Dave Plowman (News)" Wrote in message:
In article ,
Stuart Noble wrote:
The same staff bead is used on all the original sash windows in this
Victorian house. Some has obviously been replaced over the years - but
non has rotted in short order like this stuff.


The classic Vic sliding sash normally has putty on the outside.

Eh? You need an outside runner for the top sash too. I've seen staff bead
used for that.

Should be the front of the sash box itself...

Putty holding the glass in the sashes....

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 19/04/2017 19:23, jim wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" Wrote in message:
In article ,
jim k wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" Wrote in message:
In article ,
Andrew wrote:
I'm easily confused. Tape may be fine for holding the glass in - which
isn't the problem here - but isn't going to seal the bead all the way
round. And it's short bead life which is my problem.

I assume this beading is on the outside ?. If so, then its just
poor quality timber combined with the fact that it faces the
prevailing wind, rain and sun.

Odd then the timber frame to the window has lasted very well.
Originally when it was constructed, all the timber used came from the
same merchant.




Not quite sure what you mean. The window was constructed on site by the
chippy employed by the building firm doing the alterations.


You snipped my.point but for others benefit I was observing that
apart from the same firm sold it, what connection does the
framework timber have with the failing beading timber you
are on
about?


Indeed - I had some patio doors installed, with a glazed panel above.
The main sections are sound, but some of the trim pieces are looking
very ropey.

--
Cheers, Rob

"RJH" wrote in message
news
On 19/04/2017 19:23, jim wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" Wrote in message:
In article ,
jim k wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" Wrote in message:
In article ,
Andrew wrote:
I'm easily confused. Tape may be fine for holding the glass in -
which
isn't the problem here - but isn't going to seal the bead all the
way
round. And it's short bead life which is my problem.

I assume this beading is on the outside ?. If so, then its just
poor quality timber combined with the fact that it faces the
prevailing wind, rain and sun.

Odd then the timber frame to the window has lasted very well.
Originally when it was constructed, all the timber used came from the
same merchant.




Not quite sure what you mean. The window was constructed on site by the
chippy employed by the building firm doing the alterations.


You snipped my.point but for others benefit I was observing that
apart from the same firm sold it, what connection does the
framework timber have with the failing beading timber you
are on
about?


Indeed - I had some patio doors installed, with a glazed panel above.

Yeah, all of my 13 have, because of the 8'8" ceilings.

The main sections are sound, but some of the trim pieces are looking very
ropey.

Mine are fine because both the doors and the opening
windows above them have aluminium frames. The worst
any of them have is a bit of fade in the mission brown
paint on the sunny side of the house.

In article ,
RJH wrote:
Not quite sure what you mean. The window was constructed on site by the
chippy employed by the building firm doing the alterations.


You snipped my.point but for others benefit I was observing that
apart from the same firm sold it, what connection does the
framework timber have with the failing beading timber you
are on
about?


Indeed - I had some patio doors installed, with a glazed panel above.
The main sections are sound, but some of the trim pieces are looking
very ropey.

Which was the point of my question.

If planted on softwood trim is prone to rotting, what is the answer? A
better moulding shape than staff bead? Hardwood? Aluminium? PVC? Gold?

--
*We are born naked, wet, and hungry. Then things get worse.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 20/04/2017 10:40, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
RJH wrote:
Not quite sure what you mean. The window was constructed on site by the
chippy employed by the building firm doing the alterations.


You snipped my.point but for others benefit I was observing that
apart from the same firm sold it, what connection does the
framework timber have with the failing beading timber you
are on
about?


Indeed - I had some patio doors installed, with a glazed panel above.
The main sections are sound, but some of the trim pieces are looking
very ropey.

Which was the point of my question.

If planted on softwood trim is prone to rotting, what is the answer? A
better moulding shape than staff bead? Hardwood? Aluminium? PVC? Gold?


How much does appearance matter to you in a location where you need
scaffolding to paint it? I ask as ISTM if the glass is securely fixed
(eg with tape or glazing points) all you really need is a watertight
seal. So how about low modulus, neutral cure sealant? That would not
need painting. I used some in an exposed, southwest facing location 10
years ago and it seems to be surviving - albeit that was with a big
fillet of 15mm or so.


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

In article ,
Robin wrote:
How much does appearance matter to you in a location where you need
scaffolding to paint it? I ask as ISTM if the glass is securely fixed
(eg with tape or glazing points) all you really need is a watertight
seal. So how about low modulus, neutral cure sealant? That would not
need painting. I used some in an exposed, southwest facing location 10
years ago and it seems to be surviving - albeit that was with a big
fillet of 15mm or so.

The answer to that is that approximately half of the window is easily
accessible from the roof terrace and half not. There is also a door and
second window alongside it - which gives access to the roof terrace.
Which for best looks have to match. And the staff bead method does look
very nice when in good condition.

--
*IS THERE ANOTHER WORD FOR SYNONYM?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 20/04/2017 14:18, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Robin wrote:
How much does appearance matter to you in a location where you need
scaffolding to paint it? I ask as ISTM if the glass is securely fixed
(eg with tape or glazing points) all you really need is a watertight
seal. So how about low modulus, neutral cure sealant? That would not
need painting. I used some in an exposed, southwest facing location 10
years ago and it seems to be surviving - albeit that was with a big
fillet of 15mm or so.

The answer to that is that approximately half of the window is easily
accessible from the roof terrace and half not. There is also a door and
second window alongside it - which gives access to the roof terrace.
Which for best looks have to match. And the staff bead method does look
very nice when in good condition.

Understood. And apologies if I my low standards caused offence.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid