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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.gardening
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Lawn aeration
Gardening magazines seem to like the idea of lawn aeration. My
small domestic lawn has never had such treatment in the 30 years I have lived here, and I am wondering if it is worth doing. Has anybody successfully used a hollow tine aerator without it continually clogging? If so, what was it? I couldn't get a bulb planter to work at all, so tiny tines seem a non-starter. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-30565-Lawn-Aerator/dp/B00HNUQ0MW/ref=sr_1_4?s=outdoors&ie=UTF8&qid=1490615967&sr=1-4&keywords=lawn+aerator Are the spiked drum type any good? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-83983-Rolling-Aerator-Spiked-x/dp/B01BYA8WRC/ref=sr_1_6?s=outdoors&ie=UTF8&qid=1490615967&sr=1-6&keywords=lawn+aerator I have a little moss, no waterlogging, and soil which tends to clay. Chris -- Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK Plant amazing Acers. |
#2
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.gardening
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Lawn aeration
Chris J Dixon wrote:
Gardening magazines seem to like the idea of lawn aeration. My small domestic lawn has never had such treatment in the 30 years I have lived here, and I am wondering if it is worth doing. Has anybody successfully used a hollow tine aerator without it continually clogging? If so, what was it? I couldn't get a bulb planter to work at all, so tiny tines seem a non-starter. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-30565-Lawn-Aerator/dp/B00HNUQ0MW/ref=sr_1_4?s=outdoors&ie=UTF8&qid=1490615967&sr=1-4&keywords=lawn+aerator Are the spiked drum type any good? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-83983-Rolling-Aerator-Spiked-x/dp/B01BYA8WRC/ref=sr_1_6?s=outdoors&ie=UTF8&qid=1490615967&sr=1-6&keywords=lawn+aerator I have a little moss, no waterlogging, and soil which tends to clay. Chris I spent years doing it (with a fork, pushing it back and to), always wondering if it made a difference. One year, I decided to do one half of the lawn and leave the other half. If there was a difference, it was too subtle for me to notice. So now, I just let the worms live instead :-) I had one of the hollow ones, and threw it away after about a year. Maybe I was just doing it wrong all the time? |
#3
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Lawn aeration
On Monday, 27 March 2017 13:09:39 UTC+1, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Chris J Dixon wrote: Gardening magazines seem to like the idea of lawn aeration. My small domestic lawn has never had such treatment in the 30 years I have lived here, and I am wondering if it is worth doing. Has anybody successfully used a hollow tine aerator without it continually clogging? If so, what was it? I couldn't get a bulb planter to work at all, so tiny tines seem a non-starter. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-30565-Lawn-Aerator/dp/B00HNUQ0MW/ref=sr_1_4?s=outdoors&ie=UTF8&qid=1490615967&sr=1-4&keywords=lawn+aerator Are the spiked drum type any good? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-83983-Rolling-Aerator-Spiked-x/dp/B01BYA8WRC/ref=sr_1_6?s=outdoors&ie=UTF8&qid=1490615967&sr=1-6&keywords=lawn+aerator I have a little moss, no waterlogging, and soil which tends to clay. Chris I spent years doing it (with a fork, pushing it back and to), always wondering if it made a difference. One year, I decided to do one half of the lawn and leave the other half. If there was a difference, it was too subtle for me to notice. So now, I just let the worms live instead :-) I had one of the hollow ones, and threw it away after about a year. Maybe I was just doing it wrong all the time? +1, though haven't tried the hollow ones. Can't see what possible advantage they could have. NT |
#4
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Lawn aeration
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#6
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Lawn aeration
On 27/03/2017 13:03, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Gardening magazines seem to like the idea of lawn aeration. My small domestic lawn has never had such treatment in the 30 years I have lived here, and I am wondering if it is worth doing. Has anybody successfully used a hollow tine aerator without it continually clogging? If so, what was it? I couldn't get a bulb planter to work at all, so tiny tines seem a non-starter. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-30565-Lawn-Aerator/dp/B00HNUQ0MW/ref=sr_1_4?s=outdoors&ie=UTF8&qid=1490615967&sr=1-4&keywords=lawn+aerator Are the spiked drum type any good? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-83983-Rolling-Aerator-Spiked-x/dp/B01BYA8WRC/ref=sr_1_6?s=outdoors&ie=UTF8&qid=1490615967&sr=1-6&keywords=lawn+aerator I have a little moss, no waterlogging, and soil which tends to clay. Chris I have a Mantis with a lawn slitter - seems to do a great job |
#7
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Lawn aeration
On 27/03/2017 14:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
IF you have a heavy clay soil and IF you have compacted it by heavy mowing over the years so there is a surface pan of solid clay that holds water and stops grass growing, then a fork or equivalent to pierce that pan and then sand brushed into the holes improves drainage. Otherwise fukitlifes2short what about those lawn aerator "shoes" that allow you to aereate whilst mowing the lawn? Besides which, why does anyone want their lawn to grow faster? it means having to cut it more often so you waste time aerating it to waste more time cutting it more frequently.. Not a logic I can get to grips with. |
#8
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.gardening
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Lawn aeration
Chris J Dixon wrote:
Gardening magazines seem to like the idea of lawn aeration. My small domestic lawn has never had such treatment in the 30 years I have lived here, and I am wondering if it is worth doing. Has anybody successfully used a hollow tine aerator without it continually clogging? If so, what was it? I couldn't get a bulb planter to work at all, so tiny tines seem a non-starter. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-30565-Lawn-Aerator/dp/B00HNUQ0MW/ref=sr_1_4?s=outdoors&ie=UTF8&qid=1490615967&sr=1-4&keywords=lawn+aerator Are the spiked drum type any good? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-83983-Rolling-Aerator-Spiked-x/dp/B01BYA8WRC/ref=sr_1_6?s=outdoors&ie=UTF8&qid=1490615967&sr=1-6&keywords=lawn+aerator I have a little moss, no waterlogging, and soil which tends to clay. Chris I aerated my front lawn for two year, but did not bother last year due to a dodgy knee. If there is a difference I can't see it. |
#9
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.gardening
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Lawn aeration
Chris J Dixon wrote:
Gardening magazines seem to like the idea of lawn aeration. My small domestic lawn has never had such treatment in the 30 years I have lived here, and I am wondering if it is worth doing. Has anybody successfully used a hollow tine aerator without it continually clogging? If so, what was it? I couldn't get a bulb planter to work at all, so tiny tines seem a non-starter. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-30565-Lawn-Aerator/dp/B00HNUQ0MW/ref=sr_1_4?s=outdoors&ie=UTF8&qid=1490615967&sr=1-4&keywords=lawn+aerator Are the spiked drum type any good? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-83983-Rolling-Aerator-Spiked-x/dp/B01BYA8WRC/ref=sr_1_6?s=outdoors&ie=UTF8&qid=1490615967&sr=1-6&keywords=lawn+aerator I have a little moss, no waterlogging, and soil which tends to clay. Chris If you want to look stupid, http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/like/301841305252?chn=ps |
#10
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.gardening
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Lawn aeration
On 27/03/2017 15:07, F Murtz wrote:
Chris J Dixon wrote: Gardening magazines seem to like the idea of lawn aeration. My small domestic lawn has never had such treatment in the 30 years I have lived here, and I am wondering if it is worth doing. Has anybody successfully used a hollow tine aerator without it continually clogging? If so, what was it? I couldn't get a bulb planter to work at all, so tiny tines seem a non-starter. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-30565-Lawn-Aerator/dp/B00HNUQ0MW/ref=sr_1_4?s=outdoors&ie=UTF8&qid=1490615967&sr=1-4&keywords=lawn+aerator Are the spiked drum type any good? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-83983-Rolling-Aerator-Spiked-x/dp/B01BYA8WRC/ref=sr_1_6?s=outdoors&ie=UTF8&qid=1490615967&sr=1-6&keywords=lawn+aerator I have a little moss, no waterlogging, and soil which tends to clay. Chris If you want to look stupid, http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/like/301841305252?chn=ps You could just top dress with sand twice a year and let the worms do their work. David@ a sunny side of Swansea Bay |
#11
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.gardening
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Lawn aeration
On 27/03/17 15:07, F Murtz wrote:
Chris J Dixon wrote: Gardening magazines seem to like the idea of lawn aeration. My small domestic lawn has never had such treatment in the 30 years I have lived here, and I am wondering if it is worth doing. Has anybody successfully used a hollow tine aerator without it continually clogging? If so, what was it? I couldn't get a bulb planter to work at all, so tiny tines seem a non-starter. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-30565-Lawn-Aerator/dp/B00HNUQ0MW/ref=sr_1_4?s=outdoors&ie=UTF8&qid=1490615967&sr=1-4&keywords=lawn+aerator Are the spiked drum type any good? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-83983-Rolling-Aerator-Spiked-x/dp/B01BYA8WRC/ref=sr_1_6?s=outdoors&ie=UTF8&qid=1490615967&sr=1-6&keywords=lawn+aerator I have a little moss, no waterlogging, and soil which tends to clay. Chris If you want to look stupid, http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/like/301841305252?chn=ps Great for letting the grass grow under your feet -- No Apple devices were knowingly used in the preparation of this post. |
#12
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Lawn aeration
On 27/03/17 14:47, www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:
On 27/03/2017 14:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote: IF you have a heavy clay soil and IF you have compacted it by heavy mowing over the years so there is a surface pan of solid clay that holds water and stops grass growing, then a fork or equivalent to pierce that pan and then sand brushed into the holes improves drainage. Otherwise fukitlifes2short what about those lawn aerator "shoes" that allow you to aereate whilst mowing the lawn? Besides which, why does anyone want their lawn to grow faster? it means having to cut it more often so you waste time aerating it to waste more time cutting it more frequently.. Not a logic I can get to grips with. Its about stopping it rotting underwater -- No Apple devices were knowingly used in the preparation of this post. |
#13
Posted to uk.d-i-y,uk.rec.gardening
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Lawn aeration
On Tue, 28 Mar 2017 00:07:35 +1000, F Murtz wrote:
Chris J Dixon wrote: Gardening magazines seem to like the idea of lawn aeration. My small domestic lawn has never had such treatment in the 30 years I have lived here, and I am wondering if it is worth doing. Has anybody successfully used a hollow tine aerator without it continually clogging? If so, what was it? I couldn't get a bulb planter to work at all, so tiny tines seem a non-starter. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-30565-Lawn-Aerator/dp/B00HNUQ0MW/ref=sr_1_4?s=outdoors&ie=UTF8&qid=1490615967&sr=1-4&keywords=lawn+aerator Are the spiked drum type any good? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-83983-Rolling-Aerator-Spiked-x/dp/B01BYA8WRC/ref=sr_1_6?s=outdoors&ie=UTF8&qid=1490615967&sr=1-6&keywords=lawn+aerator I have a little moss, no waterlogging, and soil which tends to clay. Chris If you want to look stupid, http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/like/301841305252?chn=ps The one time I did mine it was with 12-point lobster-claw crampons (not much use for them in icy Northants). The comments from passers-by and the lack of noticeable effect decided me that the time was better spent round the pub. Anyway, moss is quite pretty. -- Peter. The gods will stay away whilst religions hold sway |
#14
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Lawn aeration
On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 13:52:37 +0000, Huge wrote:
On 2017-03-27, www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote: On 27/03/2017 14:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote: IF you have a heavy clay soil and IF you have compacted it by heavy mowing over the years so there is a surface pan of solid clay that holds water and stops grass growing, then a fork or equivalent to pierce that pan and then sand brushed into the holes improves drainage. Otherwise fukitlifes2short what about those lawn aerator "shoes" that allow you to aereate whilst mowing the lawn? That would work *really* well on my ride-on. Ahh, for those you need proper 'ice-tyres' with the spikes built into the tyre. |
#15
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Lawn aeration
www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:
On 27/03/2017 14:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote: IF you have a heavy clay soil and IF you have compacted it by heavy mowing over the years so there is a surface pan of solid clay that holds water and stops grass growing, then a fork or equivalent to pierce that pan and then sand brushed into the holes improves drainage. Otherwise fukitlifes2short what about those lawn aerator "shoes" that allow you to aereate whilst mowing the lawn? Besides which, why does anyone want their lawn to grow faster? it means having to cut it more often so you waste time aerating it to waste more time cutting it more frequently.. Not a logic I can get to grips with. Yes, I hate grass. Unfortunately plastic grass has too many problems to be a worthwhile solution. |
#16
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Lawn aeration
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 27/03/17 14:47, www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote: On 27/03/2017 14:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote: IF you have a heavy clay soil and IF you have compacted it by heavy mowing over the years so there is a surface pan of solid clay that holds water and stops grass growing, then a fork or equivalent to pierce that pan and then sand brushed into the holes improves drainage. Otherwise fukitlifes2short what about those lawn aerator "shoes" that allow you to aereate whilst mowing the lawn? Besides which, why does anyone want their lawn to grow faster? it means having to cut it more often so you waste time aerating it to waste more time cutting it more frequently.. Not a logic I can get to grips with. Its about stopping it rotting underwater Not much chance in my garden, nothing kills it IME. |
#17
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Lawn aeration
Huge Wrote in message:
On 2017-03-27, www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote: On 27/03/2017 14:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote: IF you have a heavy clay soil and IF you have compacted it by heavy mowing over the years so there is a surface pan of solid clay that holds water and stops grass growing, then a fork or equivalent to pierce that pan and then sand brushed into the holes improves drainage. Otherwise fukitlifes2short what about those lawn aerator "shoes" that allow you to aereate whilst mowing the lawn? That would work *really* well on my ride-on. No wonder it needs aerating... -- Jim K |
#18
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Lawn aeration
Chris Hogg Wrote in message:
On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 06:05:34 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Monday, 27 March 2017 13:09:39 UTC+1, Dan S. MacAbre wrote: Chris J Dixon wrote: Gardening magazines seem to like the idea of lawn aeration. My small domestic lawn has never had such treatment in the 30 years I have lived here, and I am wondering if it is worth doing. Has anybody successfully used a hollow tine aerator without it continually clogging? If so, what was it? I couldn't get a bulb planter to work at all, so tiny tines seem a non-starter. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-30565-Lawn-Aerator/dp/B00HNUQ0MW/ref=sr_1_4?s=outdoors&ie=UTF8&qid=1490615967&sr=1-4&keywords=lawn+aerator Are the spiked drum type any good? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-83983-Rolling-Aerator-Spiked-x/dp/B01BYA8WRC/ref=sr_1_6?s=outdoors&ie=UTF8&qid=1490615967&sr=1-6&keywords=lawn+aerator I have a little moss, no waterlogging, and soil which tends to clay. Chris I spent years doing it (with a fork, pushing it back and to), always wondering if it made a difference. One year, I decided to do one half of the lawn and leave the other half. If there was a difference, it was too subtle for me to notice. So now, I just let the worms live instead :-) I had one of the hollow ones, and threw it away after about a year. Maybe I was just doing it wrong all the time? +1, though haven't tried the hollow ones. Can't see what possible advantage they could have. NT Didn't see the OP, but IMO lawn spiking is only worth doing if you have poor drainage due to compaction over years, resulting in excessive moss growth. Hollow tine jobbies are a waste of time: they only work if the soil is reasonably open and soft in the first place, when it won't need spiking anyway. Otherwise they're difficult to drive into the soil, and clog almost straight away. Spiked shoes are just a laugh - forget them, unless you like being rooted to the spot. For a start, the spikes aren't long enough to do any good. If you _really_ need to spike your lawn, either hire a motor-driven machine like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AxuP8Nakww or do it the hard way with a garden fork, driven in for most of its depth and then wiggled a bit; move forward 12 inches Snip Backwards shurely? Or you'll compress what you just spiked? -- Jim K |
#19
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Lawn aeration
On 27/03/2017 14:47, www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:
Besides which, why does anyone want their lawn to grow faster? it means having to cut it more often so you waste time aerating it to waste more time cutting it more frequently.. Not a logic I can get to grips with. My feelings also. After the winter we now seem to have a "lawn" which is 80% moss and 20% grass. There seem to be plenty of moss-killers on the market (and I've tried a few) but I'm coming around to the idea that a moss lawn would be better, as it stays green most of the time and almost never needs mowing. But I'm having trouble finding a product that would kill the remaining grass while leaving the moss intact. Any suggestions gratefully received... -- Clive Page |
#20
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Lawn aeration
Clive Page Wrote in message:
On 27/03/2017 14:47, www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote: Besides which, why does anyone want their lawn to grow faster? it means having to cut it more often so you waste time aerating it to waste more time cutting it more frequently.. Not a logic I can get to grips with. My feelings also. After the winter we now seem to have a "lawn" which is 80% moss and 20% grass. There seem to be plenty of moss-killers on the market (and I've tried a few) but I'm coming around to the idea that a moss lawn would be better, as it stays green most of the time and almost never needs mowing. But I'm having trouble finding a product that would kill the remaining grass while leaving the moss intact. Any suggestions gratefully received... Glyphosate -- Jim K ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
#21
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Lawn aeration
Huge Wrote in message:
On 2017-03-28, jim k wrote: Clive Page Wrote in message: On 27/03/2017 14:47, www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote: Besides which, why does anyone want their lawn to grow faster? it means having to cut it more often so you waste time aerating it to waste more time cutting it more frequently.. Not a logic I can get to grips with. My feelings also. After the winter we now seem to have a "lawn" which is 80% moss and 20% grass. There seem to be plenty of moss-killers on the market (and I've tried a few) but I'm coming around to the idea that a moss lawn would be better, as it stays green most of the time and almost never needs mowing. But I'm having trouble finding a product that would kill the remaining grass while leaving the moss intact. Any suggestions gratefully received... Glyphosate It appears to be unclear if glyphosate kills moss or not. IME, it does. Doesn't touch mine. -- Jim K ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
#22
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Lawn aeration
jim wrote:
Huge wrote: It appears to be unclear if glyphosate kills moss or not. IME, it does. Doesn't touch mine. Nor mine, but a 2Kg bag of Iron (II) Sulphate is cheap from Amazon. |
#23
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Lawn aeration
On Tue, 28 Mar 2017 10:58:45 +0100, Clive Page
wrote: On 27/03/2017 14:47, www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote: Besides which, why does anyone want their lawn to grow faster? it means having to cut it more often so you waste time aerating it to waste more time cutting it more frequently.. Not a logic I can get to grips with. My feelings also. After the winter we now seem to have a "lawn" which is 80% moss and 20% grass. There seem to be plenty of moss-killers on the market (and I've tried a few) but I'm coming around to the idea that a moss lawn would be better, as it stays green most of the time and almost never needs mowing. But I'm having trouble finding a product that would kill the remaining grass while leaving the moss intact. Any suggestions gratefully received... Not a product as such but daughters rabbits seem to do a good job of removing the grass (as seen the same day you move their run elsewhere on the lawn) and leaving the moss! ;-) That said, they sometimes do seem to get the hump with a particular clump of moss and rip it out in seconds. It's amazing how adept they are at doing such things, along with digging holes of course. ;-) Cheers, T i m |
#24
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Lawn aeration
Andy Burns Wrote in message:
jim wrote: Huge wrote: It appears to be unclear if glyphosate kills moss or not. IME, it does. Doesn't touch mine. Nor mine, but a 2Kg bag of Iron (II) Sulphate is cheap from Amazon. Er I suspect that would do the opposite of what is required... Shortly I'll be testing benzalkonium chloride solutions on mossy grass (with a view to killing it).. will report back. -- Jim K ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
#25
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Lawn aeration
jim k Wrote in message:
Andy Burns Wrote in message: jim wrote: Huge wrote: It appears to be unclear if glyphosate kills moss or not. IME, it does. Doesn't touch mine. Nor mine, but a 2Kg bag of Iron (II) Sulphate is cheap from Amazon. Er I suspect that would do the opposite of what is required... Shortly I'll be testing benzalkonium chloride solutions on mossy grass (with a view to killing it).. will report back. ^^^ killing the moss... -- Jim K ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
#26
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Lawn aeration
In article ,
says... On Tue, 28 Mar 2017 00:07:35 +1000, F Murtz wrote: Chris J Dixon wrote: Gardening magazines seem to like the idea of lawn aeration. My small domestic lawn has never had such treatment in the 30 years I have lived here, and I am wondering if it is worth doing. Has anybody successfully used a hollow tine aerator without it continually clogging? If so, what was it? I couldn't get a bulb planter to work at all, so tiny tines seem a non-starter. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-30565-Lawn-Aerator/dp/B00HNUQ0MW/ref=sr_1_4?s=outdoors&ie=UTF8&qid=1490615967&sr=1-4&keywords=lawn+aerator Are the spiked drum type any good? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-83983-Rolling-Aerator-Spiked-x/dp/B01BYA8WRC/ref=sr_1_6?s=outdoors&ie=UTF8&qid=1490615967&sr=1-6&keywords=lawn+aerator I have a little moss, no waterlogging, and soil which tends to clay. Chris If you want to look stupid, http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/like/301841305252?chn=ps The one time I did mine it was with 12-point lobster-claw crampons (not much use for them in icy Northants). The comments from passers-by and the lack of noticeable effect decided me that the time was better spent round the pub. Anyway, moss is quite pretty. years ago I borrowed an electric moss dethatcher. It doesn't "aerate" but it does a great job scratching the soil surface, and removing moss by the cubic metre. The improvement to our moss-infested soggy lawn was so marked I bought one (60 quid in B Q) and use it every year. Janet |
#27
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Lawn aeration
+1
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#28
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Lawn aeration
Chris Hogg Wrote in message:
On Tue, 28 Mar 2017 22:21:52 +0100 (GMT+01:00), jim k wrote: jim k Wrote in message: Andy Burns Wrote in message: jim wrote: Huge wrote: It appears to be unclear if glyphosate kills moss or not. IME, it does. Doesn't touch mine. Nor mine, but a 2Kg bag of Iron (II) Sulphate is cheap from Amazon. Er I suspect that would do the opposite of what is required... Shortly I'll be testing benzalkonium chloride solutions on mossy grass (with a view to killing it).. will report back. ^^^ killing the moss... Now you have me confused. I thought you were wanting a moss 'lawn', and here you're talking about killing the moss. I'm nor sure whether glyphosate kills moss or not, but it will certainly kill the grass. OTOH sulphate of iron will kill the moss, turning it black for a while and looking pretty unsightly until either you rake out the dead stuff or it decomposes and disappears in the normal course of events. But it will probably return. I have no experience of benzalkonium chloride, but it's sold as a path cleaner, algicide and moss killer, see https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/pdfs/w...home-gardeners and scroll down about half way to c) Garden cleaners. Well if you read through from the start it should make perfect sense! :-) 1% & 2% Benzalkonium testsolutions applied at tea time. Results awaited with interest! -- Jim K ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
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