Just been listening to a radio piece about those Samsung smart TVs the CIA
etc have apparently hacked so they can listen to what's going on in the
room. So wondered if any of the computer savvy types could explain a few
things I've observed with my voice activated Samsung TV.

1) If it is in standby, it no longer appears on my LAN.
2) I'm not aware of a method of bringing it out of standby over the
internet. (it can be set to look for software updates etc overnight,
though)
3) The LED on the front of the set changes colour between standby and on.
Think most would notice if it was on when meant to be off.
4) Can the really very cheap microphone fitted to such things
differentiate between the speech or music etc from the TV's own speakers
just a few inches from it and pick up intelligible speech from the other
side of the room?

Perhaps spies always have their TV switched on with the sound turned down.
Despite things like bugs having been around for many a year. Obviously,
their spy degree didn't include having a radio etc on loud when discussing
something naughty.

--
*Velcro - what a rip off!*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 12:59:23 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

1) If it is in standby, it no longer appears on my LAN.

Neither does the windows PC here but it'll wake up when sent a Wake
On Lan "magic packet".

2) I'm not aware of a method of bringing it out of standby over the
internet. (it can be set to look for software updates etc overnight,
though)

WOL is tricky across the internet but it is possible, getting past
firewalls and NAT is the biggest problem. Not sure what you can do
via uPnP that is designed to blow holes in firewalls. Anything here
with the uPnP feature gets it disabled.

3) The LED on the front of the set changes colour between standby and
on. Think most would notice if it was on when meant to be off.

Probably under software control. The TV piece a day or so ago had a
TV running an "app" that appeared to do voice to text.

4) Can the really very cheap microphone fitted to such things
differentiate between the speech or music etc from the TV's own speakers
just a few inches from it and pick up intelligible speech from the other
side of the room?

That's more of problem.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 2017-03-10, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Just been listening to a radio piece about those Samsung smart TVs the CIA
etc have apparently hacked so they can listen to what's going on in the
room. So wondered if any of the computer savvy types could explain a few
things I've observed with my voice activated Samsung TV.

1) If it is in standby, it no longer appears on my LAN.
2) I'm not aware of a method of bringing it out of standby over the
internet. (it can be set to look for software updates etc overnight,
though)
3) The LED on the front of the set changes colour between standby and on.
Think most would notice if it was on when meant to be off.
4) Can the really very cheap microphone fitted to such things
differentiate between the speech or music etc from the TV's own speakers
just a few inches from it and pick up intelligible speech from the other
side of the room?

If the TV can be voice controlled, it must be able to separate speech
in the room from stuff coming out of the TV itself, right?

On 10/03/2017 13:19, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 12:59:23 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

1) If it is in standby, it no longer appears on my LAN.

Neither does the windows PC here but it'll wake up when sent a Wake
On Lan "magic packet".

2) I'm not aware of a method of bringing it out of standby over the
internet. (it can be set to look for software updates etc overnight,
though)

WOL is tricky across the internet but it is possible, getting past
firewalls and NAT is the biggest problem. Not sure what you can do
via uPnP that is designed to blow holes in firewalls. Anything here
with the uPnP feature gets it disabled.


I believe the way it was done was to fake standby by altering the LEDs
to show standby even if the device is on the network, so no WOL needed.
Of course, you'd see it on the lan.

In article l.net,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
3) The LED on the front of the set changes colour between standby and
on. Think most would notice if it was on when meant to be off.

Probably under software control. The TV piece a day or so ago had a
TV running an "app" that appeared to do voice to text.

Yes - think I saw that. Wouldn't a spy be suspicious if their TV suddenly
turned on and appeared to be running some sort of prog they didn't expect?

4) Can the really very cheap microphone fitted to such things
differentiate between the speech or music etc from the TV's own
speakers just a few inches from it and pick up intelligible speech
from the other side of the room?

That's more of problem.

I'd guess they have some magic software that enhances speech. Same as the
one they use to read a distant numberplate from a grotty VHS tape.

Perhaps the BBC could use it on SS GB? ;-)

--
*Always borrow money from pessimists - they don't expect it back *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Adam Funk wrote:
If the TV can be voice controlled, it must be able to separate speech
in the room from stuff coming out of the TV itself, right?

Think there's a difference from recognising a clear command to
understanding all speech.

Although I've never actually tried the voice activated side.

--
*The severity of the itch is proportional to the reach *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Chris Bartram wrote:
WOL is tricky across the internet but it is possible, getting past
firewalls and NAT is the biggest problem. Not sure what you can do
via uPnP that is designed to blow holes in firewalls. Anything here
with the uPnP feature gets it disabled.


I believe the way it was done was to fake standby by altering the LEDs
to show standby even if the device is on the network, so no WOL needed.
Of course, you'd see it on the lan.

So first, you'd need to download and install special software to the TV to
get the LEDs to show what you want?

--
*He's not dead - he's electroencephalographically challenged

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 10/03/2017 13:19, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 12:59:23 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

1) If it is in standby, it no longer appears on my LAN.

Neither does the windows PC here but it'll wake up when sent a Wake
On Lan "magic packet".

If the TV has been hacked to do spying it doesn't need to do any of the
standard ways of WOL, etc.
It may just sit there pretending to be off while recording what's said
and sending it later.

The CIA/hacker decide what it does not the manufacturer and they can do
more or less what they like to hide its working.

If they have hacked the TV they may well have hacked the router too.
It could spoof another MAC address while spying so it wouldn't appear in
the routers tables as the TV but say, for example, the smart stat.

Even if you write your own code there are ways to put code into the
system without you knowing unless you code in hex. There was a
demonstration of how to get a C compiler to put code into programs
without the user knowing a few years ago.

On 10/03/2017 13:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

4) Can the really very cheap microphone fitted to such things
differentiate between the speech or music etc from the TV's own
speakers just a few inches from it and pick up intelligible speech
from the other side of the room?

That's more of problem.

I'd guess they have some magic software that enhances speech. Same as the
one they use to read a distant numberplate from a grotty VHS tape.

Perhaps the BBC could use it on SS GB? ;-)


What makes you think they have grotty mics?
I would think they have an array of mics so that they can detect sounds
better and they would also be able to subtract the signal from the
speakers relatively easily.

On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 13:57:25 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Chris Bartram wrote:
WOL is tricky across the internet but it is possible, getting past
firewalls and NAT is the biggest problem. Not sure what you can do
via uPnP that is designed to blow holes in firewalls. Anything here
with the uPnP feature gets it disabled.


I believe the way it was done was to fake standby by altering the LEDs
to show standby even if the device is on the network, so no WOL needed.
Of course, you'd see it on the lan.

So first, you'd need to download and install special software to the TV to
get the LEDs to show what you want?

Aren't we expecting a new Wikileak anyday soon with the code of how it
was done?

Nick

In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
So first, you'd need to download and install special software to the TV to
get the LEDs to show what you want?

The TV downloads updates regularly. You'd just have to fool it into
loading some hacked update instead of the genuine thing. That could
be done by poisening your DNS entries or intercepting the update
traffic. With good security, these things would be difficult (but
not impossible). However, such appliances are well known for appalling
security. Another way would be to exploit a buffer overrun or similar
in some the the media decoding software, and providing a hacked film
or whatever that causes execution of embedded code via this mechanism.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article m,
dennis@home wrote:
I'd guess they have some magic software that enhances speech. Same as the
one they use to read a distant numberplate from a grotty VHS tape.

Perhaps the BBC could use it on SS GB? ;-)


What makes you think they have grotty mics?

Have you any idea how much decent mics cost?

I would think they have an array of mics so that they can detect sounds
better and they would also be able to subtract the signal from the
speakers relatively easily.

Yes of course. For a stage performance you merely hide the mics inside the
speaker arrays. No need for any on the actual stage. It can all be done
with clever software.

--
*Frustration is trying to find your glasses without your glasses.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
So first, you'd need to download and install special software to the TV to
get the LEDs to show what you want?

The TV downloads updates regularly. You'd just have to fool it into
loading some hacked update instead of the genuine thing.

Going to be a pretty major hack, I'd say. Have 'they' really got
programmers writing this new software for every single telly on the market?

Odd how long it took them to get into a locked iPhone only a few months
ago.


That could
be done by poisening your DNS entries or intercepting the update
traffic. With good security, these things would be difficult (but
not impossible). However, such appliances are well known for appalling
security. Another way would be to exploit a buffer overrun or similar
in some the the media decoding software, and providing a hacked film
or whatever that causes execution of embedded code via this mechanism.

You are assuming it is possible to re-programme the device to do all the
things needed to turn it into a covert listening device. Makes you wonder
how so many makers can't write software so the device works as intended.
;-)

--
*Acupuncture is a jab well done*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Jethro_uk wrote:
4) Can the really very cheap microphone fitted to such things
differentiate between the speech or music etc from the TV's own
speakers just a few inches from it and pick up intelligible speech
from the other side of the room?

When my (Android) phone is on charge*, if you say "Google" in a normal
voice, the mic manages to pick it up and trigger "OK Google" - gave me a
hell of a start when it first did it.

Now put it beside a TV with the sound at normal level, and try telling it
to do that from the normal viewing seat.

*There's a setting in Google Search for "voice control","OK Google", "On
when charging"

Voice control isn't that new. Getting it to work in the midst of other
chat - especially if that chat drowns you out - would be impressive.

--
*Why 'that tie suits you' but 'those shoes suit you'?*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
So first, you'd need to download and install special software to the TV
to
get the LEDs to show what you want?

The TV downloads updates regularly. You'd just have to fool it into
loading some hacked update instead of the genuine thing.

Going to be a pretty major hack, I'd say. Have 'they' really got
programmers writing this new software for every single telly on the
market?

surprisingly,

yes this is exactly what the techs in the spooks department spend their time
doing

it's the easy part

the hard part is, as has been said, getting it onto a remote TV which can be
anything from not that difficult to extremely bloody difficult, depending
upon what levels of authentication the manufacture of the TV uses for OTA
updates.

(I suspect that they aren't going to persuade too many people to stick a
dodgy USB stick into their TV, which is how they will test their programs in
their lab)

tim

"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 10/03/2017 13:19, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 12:59:23 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

1) If it is in standby, it no longer appears on my LAN.

Neither does the windows PC here but it'll wake up when sent a Wake
On Lan "magic packet".

If the TV has been hacked to do spying it doesn't need to do any of the
standard ways of WOL, etc.
It may just sit there pretending to be off

it can't "pretend" to be off the LAN, that fact will be determined by your
router, based upon whether it is receiving any packets from it, or not

tim

Dave Plowman wrote:

wondered if any of the computer savvy types could explain a few
things I've observed with my voice activated Samsung TV.

[Tinfoil hat mode on]

1) If it is in standby, it no longer appears on my LAN.

It could be programmed to look invisible when "off".

2) I'm not aware of a method of bringing it out of standby over the
internet. (it can be set to look for software updates etc overnight,
though)

It could have a WakeOnLAN function, this would of course require your
router to also be hacked to enable directed subnet broadcasts, or the TV
could quietly poll a CIA server when it's "off" and ask if they'd like
it to turn on in snoop mode.

3) The LED on the front of the set changes colour between standby and on.
Think most would notice if it was on when meant to be off.

LEDs can lie, e.g. laptop cameras can be enabled without turning on the
camera LED, black tape over the lens works.

4) Can the really very cheap microphone fitted to such things
differentiate between the speech or music etc from the TV's own speakers
just a few inches from it and pick up intelligible speech from the other
side of the room?

once the audio arrives to the CIA's server farm they can throw all the
audio processing they've got at the muffled audio to clarify your bomb plot.

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman wrote:

wondered if any of the computer savvy types could explain a few
things I've observed with my voice activated Samsung TV.

[Tinfoil hat mode on]

1) If it is in standby, it no longer appears on my LAN.

It could be programmed to look invisible when "off".

only by not sending any packets

which would defeat the point if the snooper wanted to actually receive what
was being said

tim

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Have 'they' really got
programmers writing this new software for every single telly on the market?

No, just the major brands; if they want to spy on you and you happen to
have the "wrong" brand of TV they arrange for you to win one in a
competition :-)

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Jethro_uk wrote:

When my (Android) phone is on charge*, if you say "Google" in a normal
voice, the mic manages to pick it up and trigger "OK Google" - gave me a
hell of a start when it first did it.

Now put it beside a TV with the sound at normal level, and try telling it
to do that from the normal viewing seat.

Mine usually works when the phone is in my pocket and I'm driving
"OK google, navigate to home".

On 10/03/2017 12:59, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Just been listening to a radio piece about those Samsung smart TVs the CIA
etc have apparently hacked so they can listen to what's going on in the
room. So wondered if any of the computer savvy types could explain a few
things I've observed with my voice activated Samsung TV.

I don't have any details of how their hack works, but I presume it
starts with a compromised app install, or possibly a trojan update of
some form.

1) If it is in standby, it no longer appears on my LAN.

If I were writing covert software that was going to phone home from
time to time, I might only activate the lan port for a very brief period
intermittently. I would also cache and DHCP allocated IP address so I
did not leave requests visible to the router at unexpected times.

2) I'm not aware of a method of bringing it out of standby over the
internet. (it can be set to look for software updates etc overnight,
though)

There may or may not be - but once compromised by whatever means (e.g.
that may even include someone gaining physical access to it to load
something from a USB stick) then it can do what ever is required.

3) The LED on the front of the set changes colour between standby and on.
Think most would notice if it was on when meant to be off.

Chances are the LED is controlled by software.

4) Can the really very cheap microphone fitted to such things
differentiate between the speech or music etc from the TV's own speakers
just a few inches from it and pick up intelligible speech from the other
side of the room?

Yes easily - especially if you know what is being played on the speaker
at the time - its a basic digital echo cancellation technique to excise
the transmitted signal from the received one.

Perhaps spies always have their TV switched on with the sound turned down.
Despite things like bugs having been around for many a year. Obviously,
their spy degree didn't include having a radio etc on loud when discussing
something naughty.

Most domestic situations will leak information in all kinds of ways...

How effective any security measure is will vary enormously depending on
who your adversary is. If you are up against nation state funded spooks,
then you are going to lose pretty much every time unless you *really*
know what you are doing.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 10/03/2017 15:14, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
So first, you'd need to download and install special software to the TV to
get the LEDs to show what you want?

The TV downloads updates regularly. You'd just have to fool it into
loading some hacked update instead of the genuine thing.

Going to be a pretty major hack, I'd say. Have 'they' really got
programmers writing this new software for every single telly on the market?

They will target the widely adopted products - quite a large number of
smart TVs will share a limited number of code bases.

Note that they have custom firmware infecting code for all the common
hard drive controllers, so they can load malware onto a machine such
that its present before any OS loads, and a complete format and
reinstall does not clear it.

Odd how long it took them to get into a locked iPhone only a few months
ago.


That could
be done by poisening your DNS entries or intercepting the update
traffic. With good security, these things would be difficult (but
not impossible). However, such appliances are well known for appalling
security. Another way would be to exploit a buffer overrun or similar
in some the the media decoding software, and providing a hacked film
or whatever that causes execution of embedded code via this mechanism.

You are assuming it is possible to re-programme the device to do all the
things needed to turn it into a covert listening device. Makes you wonder
how so many makers can't write software so the device works as intended.
;-)

Different levels of resources and funding!


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 10/03/2017 13:55, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Adam Funk wrote:
If the TV can be voice controlled, it must be able to separate speech
in the room from stuff coming out of the TV itself, right?

Think there's a difference from recognising a clear command to
understanding all speech.


Unlike for voice command processing, the TV does not need to understand
the "bugged" speech - only upload it.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 10/03/2017 15:07, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article m,
dennis@home wrote:
I'd guess they have some magic software that enhances speech. Same as the
one they use to read a distant numberplate from a grotty VHS tape.

Perhaps the BBC could use it on SS GB? ;-)


What makes you think they have grotty mics?

Have you any idea how much decent mics cost?

A few pence!
And I really do mean they cost a few pence.


I would think they have an array of mics so that they can detect sounds
better and they would also be able to subtract the signal from the
speakers relatively easily.

Yes of course. For a stage performance you merely hide the mics inside the
speaker arrays. No need for any on the actual stage. It can all be done
with clever software.


You could use a microphone array at the edge of the stage if you could
get technicians with enough of a brain to put them in right.

Don't assume you know anything about signal processing just because you
worked in TV. It wasn't exactly needed for such a simple job.

Amazon appear to have their echo working quite well in a home
environment and the whole thing retails for £50.

On Friday, 10 March 2017 14:56:32 UTC, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
So first, you'd need to download and install special software to the TV to
get the LEDs to show what you want?

The TV downloads updates regularly. You'd just have to fool it into
loading some hacked update instead of the genuine thing. That could
be done by poisening your DNS entries or intercepting the update
traffic. With good security, these things would be difficult (but
not impossible). However, such appliances are well known for appalling
security. Another way would be to exploit a buffer overrun or similar
in some the the media decoding software, and providing a hacked film
or whatever that causes execution of embedded code via this mechanism.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

I switch off the mains on all my stuff.
Should put a stop to it.

On 10/03/2017 18:33, John Rumm wrote:
On 10/03/2017 13:55, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Adam Funk wrote:
If the TV can be voice controlled, it must be able to separate speech
in the room from stuff coming out of the TV itself, right?

Think there's a difference from recognising a clear command to
understanding all speech.


Unlike for voice command processing, the TV does not need to understand
the "bugged" speech - only upload it.



The TVs tend not to understand the speech and do the same as apple and
M$ ie. the upload it to a server for recognition.

So if you want to listen in you can hack the server as long as the user
is using the voice recognition.
If they have disabled voice recognition in the menus then you need to
hack the TV.

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Jethro_uk wrote:

When my (Android) phone is on charge*, if you say "Google" in a normal
voice, the mic manages to pick it up and trigger "OK Google" - gave me a
hell of a start when it first did it.

Now put it beside a TV with the sound at normal level, and try telling it
to do that from the normal viewing seat.

Mine usually works when the phone is in my pocket and I'm driving
"OK google, navigate to home".

Shazam amazes me, with low level background music and a fair amount of
hubbub it still usually works.

tim... wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

It could be programmed to look invisible when "off".

only by not sending any packets

So it deletes a couple of GB of stuff from flash that you'll not notice
(the Channel5 app, old recordings of Grand Designs) records the audio
and then uploads it later while you're streaming X-Factor.

Odd how long it took them to get into a locked iPhone only a few months
ago.

I felt at the time that that's what they want us to believe, so as to
spare Apple's blushes for co-operating.


--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
scribeth thus
Just been listening to a radio piece about those Samsung smart TVs the CIA
etc have apparently hacked so they can listen to what's going on in the
room. So wondered if any of the computer savvy types could explain a few
things I've observed with my voice activated Samsung TV.

1) If it is in standby, it no longer appears on my LAN.
2) I'm not aware of a method of bringing it out of standby over the
internet. (it can be set to look for software updates etc overnight,
though)
3) The LED on the front of the set changes colour between standby and on.
Think most would notice if it was on when meant to be off.
4) Can the really very cheap microphone fitted to such things
differentiate between the speech or music etc from the TV's own speakers
just a few inches from it and pick up intelligible speech from the other
side of the room?

Perhaps spies always have their TV switched on with the sound turned down.
Despite things like bugs having been around for many a year. Obviously,
their spy degree didn't include having a radio etc on loud when discussing
something naughty.


I do wonder why the CIA, MI5, 6 or 7 even want to listen to someone's
missus going on about the things they find time to whine on about!,
really do;!..
--
Tony Sayer

On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 12:59:23 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Just been listening to a radio piece about those Samsung smart TVs the
CIA etc have apparently hacked so they can listen to what's going on in
the room. So wondered if any of the computer savvy types could explain a
few things I've observed with my voice activated Samsung TV.

1) If it is in standby, it no longer appears on my LAN.

It might wake upo every few minutes to phone hoime and ask if it is
needed!

2) I'm not aware of a method of bringing it out of standby over the
internet. (it can be set to look for software updates etc overnight,
though)

See above.

3) The LED on the front of the set changes colour between standby and
on. Think most would notice if it was on when meant to be off.

Probably software controlled so could lie!

4) Can the really very cheap microphone fitted to such things
differentiate between the speech or music etc from the TV's own speakers
just a few inches from it and pick up intelligible speech from the other
side of the room?

That I am less sure of. You are the expert here ...

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

4) Can the really very cheap microphone fitted to such things
differentiate between the speech or music etc from the TV's own speakers
just a few inches from it and pick up intelligible speech from the other
side of the room?

Yes easily - especially if you know what is being played on the speaker
at the time - its a basic digital echo cancellation technique to excise
the transmitted signal from the received one.

As the microphone was intended to receive spoken commands while the
set is playing normally, I would imagine this separation will occur
natively.

If the spooks need a clean copy of the programme material in order to
do the subtraction with greater accuracy, that won't pose a problem
either.


--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

On 10/03/2017 18:42, dennis@home wrote:
On 10/03/2017 18:33, John Rumm wrote:
On 10/03/2017 13:55, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Adam Funk wrote:
If the TV can be voice controlled, it must be able to separate speech
in the room from stuff coming out of the TV itself, right?

Think there's a difference from recognising a clear command to
understanding all speech.


Unlike for voice command processing, the TV does not need to understand
the "bugged" speech - only upload it.



The TVs tend not to understand the speech and do the same as apple and
M$ ie. the upload it to a server for recognition.

Most of them seem to do a bit of trigger processing, so they know when
to start uploading, then do the grunt work in the cloud.

So if you want to listen in you can hack the server as long as the user
is using the voice recognition.
If they have disabled voice recognition in the menus then you need to
hack the TV.

Which was the object of the exercise being discussed I thought?

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
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On 10/03/2017 23:15, John Rumm wrote:
On 10/03/2017 18:42, dennis@home wrote:
On 10/03/2017 18:33, John Rumm wrote:
On 10/03/2017 13:55, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Adam Funk wrote:
If the TV can be voice controlled, it must be able to separate speech
in the room from stuff coming out of the TV itself, right?

Think there's a difference from recognising a clear command to
understanding all speech.


Unlike for voice command processing, the TV does not need to understand
the "bugged" speech - only upload it.



The TVs tend not to understand the speech and do the same as apple and
M$ ie. the upload it to a server for recognition.

Most of them seem to do a bit of trigger processing, so they know when
to start uploading, then do the grunt work in the cloud.

So if you want to listen in you can hack the server as long as the user
is using the voice recognition.
If they have disabled voice recognition in the menus then you need to
hack the TV.

Which was the object of the exercise being discussed I thought?


That's good because that's what I thought too.
So going by ARW and TNP you must be wrong too.

I like the way tim posts saying that you can't hide from being seen on
the router and snips the bits where I say how it can be done.
I suppose that's the way it goes, some just like to pretend they know
about things.

On 3/10/2017 12:59 PM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Just been listening to a radio piece about those Samsung smart TVs the CIA
etc have apparently hacked so they can listen to what's going on in the
room. So wondered if any of the computer savvy types could explain a few
things I've observed with my voice activated Samsung TV.

1) If it is in standby, it no longer appears on my LAN.
2) I'm not aware of a method of bringing it out of standby over the
internet. (it can be set to look for software updates etc overnight,
though)
3) The LED on the front of the set changes colour between standby and on.
Think most would notice if it was on when meant to be off.
4) Can the really very cheap microphone fitted to such things
differentiate between the speech or music etc from the TV's own speakers
just a few inches from it and pick up intelligible speech from the other
side of the room?

Perhaps spies always have their TV switched on with the sound turned down.
Despite things like bugs having been around for many a year. Obviously,
their spy degree didn't include having a radio etc on loud when discussing
something naughty.

TV manufacturers are not going to fit nice big batteries or
supercondensers inside. For a wifi-connected TV, it's going to be inert
not long after being switched off at the wall, even if its firmware has
been hacked.

Of course if you are tracking someone seriously, you might take notice
if their phone or TV gets switched off.

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

It could be programmed to look invisible when "off".

only by not sending any packets

So it deletes a couple of GB of stuff from flash that you'll not notice
(the Channel5 app, old recordings of Grand Designs)

If something deleted some of my saved recordings I'd bloody well notice

But in any case, these are smart TV's they don't have a store of recorded
stuff

records the audio and then uploads it later while you're streaming
X-Factor.

That'll be a three moth wait in my case (and no that's not relevant to the
choice of program)

tm

On Sat, 11 Mar 2017 09:09:25 +0000, Jethro_uk wrote:

On Sat, 11 Mar 2017 09:00:58 +0000, tim... wrote:

But in any case, these are smart TV's they don't have a store of
recorded stuff

My LG can store stuff picked up via it's tuner on an USB device (memory
stick or HDD) if connected.

My Samsung (spit) too.



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On 11/03/2017 09:00, tim... wrote:


But in any case, these are smart TV's they don't have a store of
recorded stuff

So you can't update the firmware on your smart TV as there is no space
that can be written to?

tim... wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
So first, you'd need to download and install special software to
the TV to
get the LEDs to show what you want?

The TV downloads updates regularly. You'd just have to fool it into
loading some hacked update instead of the genuine thing.

Going to be a pretty major hack, I'd say. Have 'they' really got
programmers writing this new software for every single telly on the
market?

surprisingly,

yes this is exactly what the techs in the spooks department spend their
time doing

it's the easy part

the hard part is, as has been said, getting it onto a remote TV which
can be anything from not that difficult to extremely bloody difficult,
depending upon what levels of authentication the manufacture of the TV
uses for OTA updates.

(I suspect that they aren't going to persuade too many people to stick a
dodgy USB stick into their TV, which is how they will test their
programs in their lab)

tim




Surely it's very easy with an OTA update? No need to go near the LAN
until installed.
Incidentally, does any piece of modern equipment work correctly when
first installed?

On 10/03/2017 15:05, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Fri, 10 Mar 2017 12:59:23 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Just been listening to a radio piece about those Samsung smart TVs the
CIA etc have apparently hacked so they can listen to what's going on in
the room. So wondered if any of the computer savvy types could explain a
few things I've observed with my voice activated Samsung TV.

1) If it is in standby, it no longer appears on my LAN.
2) I'm not aware of a method of bringing it out of standby over the
internet. (it can be set to look for software updates etc overnight,
though)
3) The LED on the front of the set changes colour between standby and
on. Think most would notice if it was on when meant to be off.


Perhaps spies always have their TV switched on with the sound turned
down.
Despite things like bugs having been around for many a year. Obviously,
their spy degree didn't include having a radio etc on loud when
discussing something naughty.

I believe the exploit required physical access to the TV. So spooks would
need to break in to set it up. (Which is nothing untoward. As Peter
Wright said in Spycatcher: "we bugged and burgled our way through
London").


Yes, indeed, has to be modified physically - IIUC it can't be done with
a software hack. Same with the webcam on my Mac computer. I hope :-;

--
Cheers, Rob