Today was a "Starters and Tubes" day in my workshop - I have 72 off 6 foot
70 watt tubes spread over three rooms !!!! (That's right 5 kW of lighting if
everything is turned on !!!!!!)

Many are in very inaccessible places, and to change the starters you are
right at the top of a tall stepladder only just reaching, and to make it
worse, the starters have so little protruding that you can't grip them
properly to refit - usually they come out ok, it's the final 'twist to lock'
that gives the grief.

Today I thought it was time to solve the problem and it turned out to be
very easy. The body of Fluorescent starters are about 20 mm. The solution:
take a standard 20 mm female conduit fitting (I used a 'male adaptor' like
this) :

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MT20MA.html

Two turns of masking tape on the extreme end of the starter makes it a tight
jam fit, and now you have something to grip - works a charm.


Incidentally, in the last 12 months I've had two starters that have failed
'hot' and melted their sockets resulting in having to replace the socket -
lucky they are a non-igniting plastic !!


Andrew

Andrew Mawson wrote:
Today was a "Starters and Tubes" day in my workshop - I have 72 off 6
foot 70 watt tubes spread over three rooms !!!! (That's right 5 kW of
lighting if everything is turned on !!!!!!)

Many are in very inaccessible places, and to change the starters you are
right at the top of a tall stepladder only just reaching, and to make it
worse, the starters have so little protruding that you can't grip them
properly to refit - usually they come out ok, it's the final 'twist to
lock' that gives the grief.

Today I thought it was time to solve the problem and it turned out to be
very easy. The body of Fluorescent starters are about 20 mm. The
solution: take a standard 20 mm female conduit fitting (I used a 'male
adaptor' like this) :

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MT20MA.html

Two turns of masking tape on the extreme end of the starter makes it a
tight jam fit, and now you have something to grip - works a charm.


Incidentally, in the last 12 months I've had two starters that have
failed 'hot' and melted their sockets resulting in having to replace the
socket - lucky they are a non-igniting plastic !!


Andrew
Are you using electronic starters? I have nothing like the number of
fittings as you (who has? lol) but I can't recall the last time I have
am E-starter fail.

Bob

"Bob Minchin" wrote in message news

Andrew Mawson wrote:
Today was a "Starters and Tubes" day in my workshop - I have 72 off 6
foot 70 watt tubes spread over three rooms !!!! (That's right 5 kW of
lighting if everything is turned on !!!!!!)

Many are in very inaccessible places, and to change the starters you are
right at the top of a tall stepladder only just reaching, and to make it
worse, the starters have so little protruding that you can't grip them
properly to refit - usually they come out ok, it's the final 'twist to
lock' that gives the grief.

Today I thought it was time to solve the problem and it turned out to be
very easy. The body of Fluorescent starters are about 20 mm. The
solution: take a standard 20 mm female conduit fitting (I used a 'male
adaptor' like this) :

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MT20MA.html

Two turns of masking tape on the extreme end of the starter makes it a
tight jam fit, and now you have something to grip - works a charm.


Incidentally, in the last 12 months I've had two starters that have
failed 'hot' and melted their sockets resulting in having to replace the
socket - lucky they are a non-igniting plastic !!


Andrew
Are you using electronic starters? I have nothing like the number of
fittings as you (who has? lol) but I can't recall the last time I have am
E-starter fail.

Bob

Bob, they are all conventional ones, but only now are they starting to fail,
having been installed about 9 year ago, so that's not too bad lifespan. I'd
love to replace them with LED floods as the running cost would be much less,
but at the moment the capital cost would be enormous. I'm putting up a new
tractor shed later in the year, and that will have LED floods up in the
gods.

Andrew

On Wed, 1 Mar 2017 13:28:51 -0000, "Andrew Mawson"
wrote:

"Bob Minchin" wrote in message news

Andrew Mawson wrote:
Today was a "Starters and Tubes" day in my workshop - I have 72 off 6
foot 70 watt tubes spread over three rooms !!!! (That's right 5 kW of
lighting if everything is turned on !!!!!!)

Many are in very inaccessible places, and to change the starters you are
right at the top of a tall stepladder only just reaching, and to make it
worse, the starters have so little protruding that you can't grip them
properly to refit - usually they come out ok, it's the final 'twist to
lock' that gives the grief.

Today I thought it was time to solve the problem and it turned out to be
very easy. The body of Fluorescent starters are about 20 mm. The
solution: take a standard 20 mm female conduit fitting (I used a 'male
adaptor' like this) :

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MT20MA.html

Two turns of masking tape on the extreme end of the starter makes it a
tight jam fit, and now you have something to grip - works a charm.


Incidentally, in the last 12 months I've had two starters that have
failed 'hot' and melted their sockets resulting in having to replace the
socket - lucky they are a non-igniting plastic !!


Andrew
Are you using electronic starters? I have nothing like the number of
fittings as you (who has? lol) but I can't recall the last time I have am
E-starter fail.

Bob

Bob, they are all conventional ones, but only now are they starting to fail,
having been installed about 9 year ago, so that's not too bad lifespan. I'd
love to replace them with LED floods as the running cost would be much less,
but at the moment the capital cost would be enormous. I'm putting up a new
tractor shed later in the year, and that will have LED floods up in the
gods.

You could replace them with LED tubes.

Scott wrote:

Andrew Mawson wrote:

I have 72 off 6 foot 70 watt tubes

You could replace them with LED tubes.

For about 2 grand, that's about 4,000 hours of "on" time, and I guess
they're not all on, all the time?

On Wed, 1 Mar 2017 13:42:16 +0000, Andy Burns
wrote:

Scott wrote:

Andrew Mawson wrote:

I have 72 off 6 foot 70 watt tubes

You could replace them with LED tubes.

For about 2 grand, that's about 4,000 hours of "on" time, and I guess
they're not all on, all the time?

I'm assuming these are business premises. Is £2,000 a large sum in
the scheme of things? Month's wages for one employee maybe? Improved
ambience for years to come.

Andrew Mawson wrote:
"Bob Minchin" wrote in message news

Andrew Mawson wrote:
Today was a "Starters and Tubes" day in my workshop - I have 72 off 6
foot 70 watt tubes spread over three rooms !!!! (That's right 5 kW of
lighting if everything is turned on !!!!!!)

Many are in very inaccessible places, and to change the starters you are
right at the top of a tall stepladder only just reaching, and to make it
worse, the starters have so little protruding that you can't grip them
properly to refit - usually they come out ok, it's the final 'twist to
lock' that gives the grief.

Today I thought it was time to solve the problem and it turned out to be
very easy. The body of Fluorescent starters are about 20 mm. The
solution: take a standard 20 mm female conduit fitting (I used a 'male
adaptor' like this) :

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MT20MA.html

Two turns of masking tape on the extreme end of the starter makes it a
tight jam fit, and now you have something to grip - works a charm.


Incidentally, in the last 12 months I've had two starters that have
failed 'hot' and melted their sockets resulting in having to replace the
socket - lucky they are a non-igniting plastic !!


Andrew
Are you using electronic starters? I have nothing like the number of
fittings as you (who has? lol) but I can't recall the last time I have
am E-starter fail.

Bob

Bob, they are all conventional ones, but only now are they starting to
fail, having been installed about 9 year ago, so that's not too bad
lifespan. I'd love to replace them with LED floods as the running cost
would be much less, but at the moment the capital cost would be
enormous. I'm putting up a new tractor shed later in the year, and that
will have LED floods up in the gods.

Andrew


Difficult to believe that you have been there 9 years (+) but then again
I've been retired 8 years soon and that has flown by!

LED lighting still seems to be a gamble not so much from the point of
view of the leds themselves but ultra marginal design in the switch mode
supplies and price does not seem to be much of a discriminant to help
choose long lasting ones.
I've been running fluorescent tubes with high frequency ballasts in my
woodwork shop for over 10 years now and they have been 100% reliable and
IIRC about £6 each for a double 5' ballast retrofitted into old choke
ballast fittings scrounged from work.
I'm nearing the end of a box of 25 tubes (that has lasted 10 years plus)
and wondering if switching to LEDS or just buying another box of tubes
is the best option.
I only have 10 tubes in that shop and just 2 in an other so running cost
is not a serious factor.
Bob

In article ,
Bob Minchin wrote:
I've been running fluorescent tubes with high frequency ballasts in my
woodwork shop for over 10 years now and they have been 100% reliable and
IIRC about £6 each for a double 5' ballast retrofitted into old choke
ballast fittings scrounged from work.
I'm nearing the end of a box of 25 tubes (that has lasted 10 years plus)
and wondering if switching to LEDS or just buying another box of tubes
is the best option.
I only have 10 tubes in that shop and just 2 in an other so running cost
is not a serious factor.

Given the high costs of LEDs, you wouldn't need many early failures to
wipe out any energy savings. Given those energy savings aren't going to be
big over decent florries. And is the light quality as good? Could be very
important in some types of workshop.

--
*What boots up must come down *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 01 Mar 2017 13:49:57 +0000, Scott
wrote:

I'm assuming these are business premises. Is £2,000 a large sum in
the scheme of things? Month's wages for one employee maybe? Improved
ambience for years to come.

LED are not significantly more efficient than linear fluorescent,
about 20%. Their "greater reliability" figures don't appear to exist
in real life and the colour rendering index of tri-phosphor
fluorescent is much better than LED's.

In article ,
Peter Parry wrote:
On Wed, 01 Mar 2017 13:49:57 +0000, Scott
wrote:

I'm assuming these are business premises. Is £2,000 a large sum in
the scheme of things? Month's wages for one employee maybe? Improved
ambience for years to come.

LED are not significantly more efficient than linear fluorescent,
about 20%. Their "greater reliability" figures don't appear to exist
in real life and the colour rendering index of tri-phosphor
fluorescent is much better than LED's.

Rather what I suspected, Peter.

--
*Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wednesday, 1 March 2017 15:41:55 UTC, Peter Parry wrote:
On Wed, 01 Mar 2017 13:49:57 +0000, Scott
wrote:

I'm assuming these are business premises. Is £2,000 a large sum in
the scheme of things? Month's wages for one employee maybe? Improved
ambience for years to come.

LED are not significantly more efficient than linear fluorescent,
about 20%. Their "greater reliability" figures don't appear to exist
in real life and the colour rendering index of tri-phosphor
fluorescent is much better than LED's.

The big loss is in the choke/inductor.
This is where the electronic one win out.

On 01/03/2017 13:28, Andrew Mawson wrote:


Bob, they are all conventional ones, but only now are they starting to
fail, having been installed about 9 year ago, so that's not too bad
lifespan. I'd love to replace them with LED floods as the running cost
would be much less,

Will it?
how many lumen per watt are your tubes and the LEDs you would fit?

"Scott" wrote in message ...

On Wed, 1 Mar 2017 13:42:16 +0000, Andy Burns
wrote:

Scott wrote:

Andrew Mawson wrote:

I have 72 off 6 foot 70 watt tubes

You could replace them with LED tubes.

For about 2 grand, that's about 4,000 hours of "on" time, and I guess
they're not all on, all the time?

I'm assuming these are business premises. Is £2,000 a large sum in
the scheme of things? Month's wages for one employee maybe? Improved
ambience for years to comE


Wrong ! and I've already said the capital cost is too high for me AN NON
COMMERCIAL HOBBY WORKSHOP !!!!!!


Andrew

is it not going to be cost effective with that lot to go LED?
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Andrew Mawson" wrote in message
news
Today was a "Starters and Tubes" day in my workshop - I have 72 off 6 foot
70 watt tubes spread over three rooms !!!! (That's right 5 kW of lighting
if everything is turned on !!!!!!)

Many are in very inaccessible places, and to change the starters you are
right at the top of a tall stepladder only just reaching, and to make it
worse, the starters have so little protruding that you can't grip them
properly to refit - usually they come out ok, it's the final 'twist to
lock' that gives the grief.

Today I thought it was time to solve the problem and it turned out to be
very easy. The body of Fluorescent starters are about 20 mm. The
solution: take a standard 20 mm female conduit fitting (I used a 'male
adaptor' like this) :

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MT20MA.html

Two turns of masking tape on the extreme end of the starter makes it a
tight jam fit, and now you have something to grip - works a charm.


Incidentally, in the last 12 months I've had two starters that have failed
'hot' and melted their sockets resulting in having to replace the socket -
lucky they are a non-igniting plastic !!


Andrew

On Wed, 1 Mar 2017 18:47:53 -0000, "Andrew Mawson"
wrote:

"Scott" wrote in message ...

On Wed, 1 Mar 2017 13:42:16 +0000, Andy Burns
wrote:

Scott wrote:

Andrew Mawson wrote:

I have 72 off 6 foot 70 watt tubes

You could replace them with LED tubes.

For about 2 grand, that's about 4,000 hours of "on" time, and I guess
they're not all on, all the time?

I'm assuming these are business premises. Is £2,000 a large sum in
the scheme of things? Month's wages for one employee maybe? Improved
ambience for years to comE


Wrong ! and I've already said the capital cost is too high for me AN NON
COMMERCIAL HOBBY WORKSHOP !!!!!!

I have looked again at your two postings and can find no mention of
non commercial hobby workshop. You claimed the cost was 'enormous'
which seems a bit of an exaggeration in the context of a three room
workshop.

On 01/03/2017 19:09, Brian Gaff wrote:
is it not going to be cost effective with that lot to go LED?

Might depend on how long the OP is expecting to live, given the reputed
lifespan of LEDs.

--
Max Demian

"Scott" wrote in message news

On Wed, 1 Mar 2017 18:47:53 -0000, "Andrew Mawson"
wrote:

"Scott" wrote in message
. ..

On Wed, 1 Mar 2017 13:42:16 +0000, Andy Burns
wrote:

Scott wrote:

Andrew Mawson wrote:

I have 72 off 6 foot 70 watt tubes

You could replace them with LED tubes.

For about 2 grand, that's about 4,000 hours of "on" time, and I guess
they're not all on, all the time?

I'm assuming these are business premises. Is £2,000 a large sum in
the scheme of things? Month's wages for one employee maybe? Improved
ambience for years to comE


Wrong ! and I've already said the capital cost is too high for me AN NON
COMMERCIAL HOBBY WORKSHOP !!!!!!

I have looked again at your two postings and can find no mention of
non commercial hobby workshop. You claimed the cost was 'enormous'
which seems a bit of an exaggeration in the context of a three room
workshop.

6 foot LED replacement tubes from TLC are £26 plus VAT = £31.20 each or
£2246.40. That to me is ENORMOUS
but perhaps you have deeper pockets ?

Andrew

On 01/03/2017 21:45, Andrew Mawson wrote:
"Scott" wrote in message
news

On Wed, 1 Mar 2017 18:47:53 -0000, "Andrew Mawson"
wrote:

"Scott" wrote in message
...

On Wed, 1 Mar 2017 13:42:16 +0000, Andy Burns
wrote:

Scott wrote:

Andrew Mawson wrote:

I have 72 off 6 foot 70 watt tubes

You could replace them with LED tubes.

For about 2 grand, that's about 4,000 hours of "on" time, and I guess
they're not all on, all the time?

I'm assuming these are business premises. Is £2,000 a large sum in
the scheme of things? Month's wages for one employee maybe? Improved
ambience for years to comE


Wrong ! and I've already said the capital cost is too high for me AN NON
COMMERCIAL HOBBY WORKSHOP !!!!!!

I have looked again at your two postings and can find no mention of
non commercial hobby workshop. You claimed the cost was 'enormous'
which seems a bit of an exaggeration in the context of a three room
workshop.

6 foot LED replacement tubes from TLC are £26 plus VAT = £31.20 each or
£2246.40. That to me is ENORMOUS
but perhaps you have deeper pockets ?



They are about £17 inc VAT at other places (including one I shop at).

It's still a bit steep but at least it is not vertical!




--
Adam

In article ,
Scott wrote:
On Wed, 1 Mar 2017 18:47:53 -0000, "Andrew Mawson"
wrote:

"Scott" wrote in message ...

On Wed, 1 Mar 2017 13:42:16 +0000, Andy Burns
wrote:

Scott wrote:

Andrew Mawson wrote:

I have 72 off 6 foot 70 watt tubes

You could replace them with LED tubes.

For about 2 grand, that's about 4,000 hours of "on" time, and I guess
they're not all on, all the time?

I'm assuming these are business premises. Is £2,000 a large sum in
the scheme of things? Month's wages for one employee maybe? Improved
ambience for years to comE


Wrong ! and I've already said the capital cost is too high for me AN NON
COMMERCIAL HOBBY WORKSHOP !!!!!!

I have looked again at your two postings and can find no mention of
non commercial hobby workshop. You claimed the cost was 'enormous'
which seems a bit of an exaggeration in the context of a three room
workshop.

72 6 ft fittings. TLC sells the LED tubes @ £24.00 in quantity (plus vat).
That comes out at a bit over £2,000. For a "hobby" workshop that could
well be enormous,

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Scott wrote:
On Wed, 1 Mar 2017 18:47:53 -0000, "Andrew Mawson"
wrote:

"Scott" wrote in message
.. .

On Wed, 1 Mar 2017 13:42:16 +0000, Andy Burns
wrote:

Scott wrote:

Andrew Mawson wrote:

I have 72 off 6 foot 70 watt tubes

You could replace them with LED tubes.

For about 2 grand, that's about 4,000 hours of "on" time, and I guess
they're not all on, all the time?

I'm assuming these are business premises. Is £2,000 a large sum in
the scheme of things? Month's wages for one employee maybe? Improved
ambience for years to comE


Wrong ! and I've already said the capital cost is too high for me AN NON
COMMERCIAL HOBBY WORKSHOP !!!!!!

I have looked again at your two postings and can find no mention of
non commercial hobby workshop. You claimed the cost was 'enormous'
which seems a bit of an exaggeration in the context of a three room
workshop.

72 6 ft fittings. TLC sells the LED tubes @ £24.00 in quantity (plus vat).
That comes out at a bit over £2,000. For a "hobby" workshop that could
well be enormous,

Particularly when you consider what else you can buy for that money.

On Wed, 1 Mar 2017 22:09:00 +0000, ARW
wrote:

On 01/03/2017 21:45, Andrew Mawson wrote:
"Scott" wrote in message
news

On Wed, 1 Mar 2017 18:47:53 -0000, "Andrew Mawson"
wrote:

"Scott" wrote in message
...

On Wed, 1 Mar 2017 13:42:16 +0000, Andy Burns
wrote:

Scott wrote:

Andrew Mawson wrote:

I have 72 off 6 foot 70 watt tubes

You could replace them with LED tubes.

For about 2 grand, that's about 4,000 hours of "on" time, and I guess
they're not all on, all the time?

I'm assuming these are business premises. Is £2,000 a large sum in
the scheme of things? Month's wages for one employee maybe? Improved
ambience for years to comE


Wrong ! and I've already said the capital cost is too high for me AN NON
COMMERCIAL HOBBY WORKSHOP !!!!!!

I have looked again at your two postings and can find no mention of
non commercial hobby workshop. You claimed the cost was 'enormous'
which seems a bit of an exaggeration in the context of a three room
workshop.

6 foot LED replacement tubes from TLC are £26 plus VAT = £31.20 each or
£2246.40. That to me is ENORMOUS
but perhaps you have deeper pockets ?



They are about £17 inc VAT at other places (including one I shop at).

With discount I suspect if you were buying 72 of them.

It's still a bit steep but at least it is not vertical!

On 2017-03-01 12:36, Bob Minchin wrote:

Are you using electronic starters? I have nothing like the number of
fittings as you (who has? lol) but I can't recall the last time I have
am E-starter fail.

They seem to help extend the life of the tube as well. I fitted an
e-starter in my kitchen light and the tube lasted for 20 years.

Unfortunately in that period T12 tubes had become obsolete and
I couldn't find a replacement so the kitchen now has a new light
with an electronic ballast and a T8 tube. (If you want to be
bang up to date T5 tubes are also available.)

Well, I did find an online supplier who would sell me a pack of 12.
As I only have the one full-sized fluorescent lamp I didn't think
I'd get my money's worth.


--
Graham Nye
news(a)thenyes.org.uk

In article ,
Graham Nye wrote:
Are you using electronic starters? I have nothing like the number of
fittings as you (who has? lol) but I can't recall the last time I have
am E-starter fail.

They seem to help extend the life of the tube as well. I fitted an
e-starter in my kitchen light and the tube lasted for 20 years.

I have two under cupboard tri-phosphor florries (a 6ft and 4 ft) here that
are at least 20 years old. But fed by very expensive at the time
electronic ballasts.

It's likely new tubes would be a deal brighter, but they still do the job
needed OK.

--
*You are validating my inherent mistrust of strangers

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thursday, 2 March 2017 15:23:03 UTC, Graham Nye wrote:
On 2017-03-01 12:36, Bob Minchin wrote:

Are you using electronic starters? I have nothing like the number of
fittings as you (who has? lol) but I can't recall the last time I have
am E-starter fail.

They seem to help extend the life of the tube as well. I fitted an
e-starter in my kitchen light and the tube lasted for 20 years.

ISTR tube life is/was doubled over glowstart.

Unfortunately in that period T12 tubes had become obsolete and
I couldn't find a replacement so the kitchen now has a new light
with an electronic ballast and a T8 tube. (If you want to be
bang up to date T5 tubes are also available.)

Well, I did find an online supplier who would sell me a pack of 12.
As I only have the one full-sized fluorescent lamp I didn't think
I'd get my money's worth.

T4 & T5 suffer massive light loss as temperature falls, so unsuitable for an unheated workshop.


NT