On 19/02/2017 18:49, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Huge wrote:
BTW, love to have an example of a union fighting a 'political battle'

Southern Rail. That's pure politics. Not party politics, sure, but it's
about who runs the railways. It sure as **** doesn't have anything to
do with two man operation.

You don't consider it to be protecting existing jobs?

Unless you consider them fighting to protect jobs and conditions
political.

It can be.

Of course many think their job is to just lie down and accept any ****
a government decides to shovel on them - in 'the interests of the
country'. But that wasn't what I paid a union subscription for.

Me neither. But then, neither do I imagine that union bosses are pure as
the driven snow motivated by nothing more than their member's interests.

I'm one of those who know union bosses don't have that much power. There
is no chance they can go against the views of their union, as expressed by
the members at annual conference etc. They'd be out on their arse. Of
course the meja far prefer to have an individual they can hate.

In an actual dispute, they may have to take some decisions on the fly. But
at the end of the day they'd not last five minutes without the backing of
those who pay their wages - the members.

And who pays the members wages?





--
Adam

On 19/02/2017 18:29, Tim Streater wrote:

[1] These sheets stretch over the mattress and so don't need ironing.

Even sheets which don't stretch over the mattress don't need ironing...

On 19/02/2017 18:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
BTW, I don't actually know what that dispute is about. Both sides keep
any facts to themselves.

Even though driver operated doors happen all over the rest of the
network?

All the rest of the network has driver operated doors? What have you been
smoking?

Still got conventional guards here. They sell tickets as well.

DOO probably works for smallish trains, but the Southern commuter ones
can be massive - 8 or 12 carriages.

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 00:20:01 +0000, Graham Nye
wrote:
snip

They all appear to be designed by M.C. Escher.

;-)

Forcing you to walk
round the entire store in the hope that you'll buy more than you
came for is part of the ruthless attitude to relieving you of your
money that Ikea seems to be looking for in its employees.

Isn't this just std retailing though, milk bread and butter at the
*back* of every supermarket?

It isnt in my Aldi. The bread is close to the checkouts, on one side.

On 19/02/17 18:57, Tim Streater wrote:


We've not bought bed linen from IKEA so haven't had that problem apart,
as I say, for the sheet which obviously has to fit the mattress.


Ikea do bed linen in two sizes, 150cm and a special for the UK size of
140cm. No all of the range is available in both sizes though.


Once I discovered jersey stretch sheets in 1980 I started wondering why
everyone doesn't use them.



--
djc

(–€Ì¿Ä¹Ì¯–€Ì¿ Ì¿)
No low-hanging fruit, just a lot of small berries up a tall tree.

Tim Streater wrote:

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:




BTW, love to have an example of a union fighting a 'political battle'

Don't be a sap Dave. What d'ye think the Southern business is all
about, other than a attempt to bring down the government.

If that's the plan, the franchise holder is doing a lot better at it
than the unions!

Surely it is largely a rearguard action against automation and
deskilling, like the one fought and lost in Fleet Street?

--

Roger Hayter

pamela wrote:
When you need to get a replacement mattress you may find it
tricky. We had that problem. Same goes for their bed linen in
non-standard sizes.

They sell beds in both British and European sizes now. And even if you
have one of the European sizes it's not difficult to find a replacement
mattress - you can get one in IKEA!

Mike

In article ,
ARW wrote:
In an actual dispute, they may have to take some decisions on the fly.
But at the end of the day they'd not last five minutes without the
backing of those who pay their wages - the members.

And who pays the members wages?

Do you actually need an answer to that?

--
*The first rule of holes: If you are in one, stop digging!

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Clive George wrote:
On 19/02/2017 18:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
BTW, I don't actually know what that dispute is about. Both sides
keep any facts to themselves.

Even though driver operated doors happen all over the rest of the
network?

All the rest of the network has driver operated doors? What have you
been smoking?

Still got conventional guards here. They sell tickets as well.

And check them too on the train. And assist when the train splits or joins
up.

DOO probably works for smallish trains, but the Southern commuter ones
can be massive - 8 or 12 carriages.

Yup. And the station platforms can be packed solid at rush hour. Of course
some think half a dozen TV cameras multiplexed onto a small monitor gives
as good a view as a decent pair of eyes, but others would disagree.

--
*Beware - animal lover - brakes for pussy*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Roger Hayter wrote:
Tim Streater wrote:

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:




BTW, love to have an example of a union fighting a 'political battle'

Don't be a sap Dave. What d'ye think the Southern business is all
about, other than a attempt to bring down the government.

If that's the plan, the franchise holder is doing a lot better at it
than the unions!

Surely it is largely a rearguard action against automation and
deskilling, like the one fought and lost in Fleet Street?

Nothing like Fleet Street. One of the fairly rare occasions where I
thought the unions involved in that were misguided. They should have
grabbed the new technology and got an agreement for it. It was fairly
obvious even to an outsider that the new technology was going to happen.

If it were new trains (and stations), fully automated and no driver
needed, the arguments would be different.

--
*Black holes are where God divided by zero *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 07:19:13 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"T i m" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 00:20:01 +0000, Graham Nye
wrote:
snip

They all appear to be designed by M.C. Escher.

;-)

Forcing you to walk
round the entire store in the hope that you'll buy more than you
came for is part of the ruthless attitude to relieving you of your
money that Ikea seems to be looking for in its employees.

Isn't this just std retailing though, milk bread and butter at the
*back* of every supermarket?

It isnt in my Aldi. The bread is close to the checkouts, on one side.

As it is in our Lidl, but the eggs and milk are equally spread out
around the side of the store which was my real point.

Our local supermarkets all only have one entry / exit area (generally
the front) as does the Tesco superstore and all the Expresses (and
again, they all generally keep things like milk (at least) bread and
eggs nowhere near the front doors).

The Aldi near my Sisters has a carpark entrance / exit opposite the
'front' entrance / exit but they are both the same 'street' side of
the same checkouts.

I'm not suggesting that other combinations don't exist of course or
that there aren't places with all the basics in one place near the
main doors. Just that I don't know many like that because I don't
think doing so would be considered shrewd retail practice?

Cheers, T i m

Tim Streater wrote:

Depends how you view that. I'm glad that our IKEA bed is 150cm wide
rather than the 140 that appears to be standard everywhere I go. And
which is very irritating.

I started shopping at IKEA when there were only a couple of
stores. Because of stock problems, and aided by an assistant who
was willing to cross a few software barriers, I bought the basic
parts of my living room units in Neasden, and all the doors
drawers and shelves in Warrington the following day.

I visited Wolverhampton on its opening day, to return a spare
roll of wallpaper - also meant I could get in through customer
services and avoid the queues :-)

Had a bizarre visit to Nottingham, which is now really handy for
me, on a day when breakfast was free to those turning up before
9 am in nightwear.

I like their continental bed sizes and don't have a problem with
getting the matching bed linen from them. ES lampholders work for
me. The old Sten shelving is a real workhorse, there is more
choice of storage solutions than most folk could want. Most of my
house is furnished by IKEA.

Overall I find their stuff to be well designed and good value,
and look forward to my shopping visits, usually taking advantage
of their very affordable restaurant.

Knowing the shortcuts is certainly useful. Once upon a time
Neasden also had a quick way back to the entrance from the
checkouts, and it may have been there that the quickest way to
the marketplace was to walk straight through the lift.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

In article ,
T i m wrote:
Our local supermarkets all only have one entry / exit area (generally
the front) as does the Tesco superstore and all the Expresses (and
again, they all generally keep things like milk (at least) bread and
eggs nowhere near the front doors).

Interesting. What is your most frequent purchase at a supermarket? Milk
kept in a fridge will last the best part of a week. Eggs much longer.
About the only thing I can think of that is best bought every day is some
types of bread. And at the local Lidl, the bakery is the first bit you'd
come to if circulating the store normally.

But then I've long come to realise that if I go to any store for any one
item, it will always be as far away from the entrance as possible. ;-)

--
*With her marriage she got a new name and a dress.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
T i m wrote:
Our local supermarkets all only have one entry / exit area (generally
the front) as does the Tesco superstore and all the Expresses (and
again, they all generally keep things like milk (at least) bread and
eggs nowhere near the front doors).

Interesting. What is your most frequent purchase at a supermarket? Milk
kept in a fridge will last the best part of a week. Eggs much longer.
About the only thing I can think of that is best bought every day is some
types of bread. And at the local Lidl, the bakery is the first bit you'd
come to if circulating the store normally.


Fruit & veg first - then the bakery

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On Sunday, 19 February 2017 11:30:08 UTC, wrote:
On Saturday, 18 February 2017 22:51:49 UTC, Max Demian wrote:
On 18/02/2017 22:19, TheChief wrote:
Ok so the good news is that we have finally found a table for the
kitchen after deciding we wanted one about 2 years
ago.

As we live in Hull with no IKEA, our first exposure was visiting
the Edinburgh store last weekend with our daughter.
There we saw just what we wanted, so headed off to the Leeds store
this morning.

Maybe nobody cares any more, but I could not believe the attitude
of the staff in there. It seemed to start at disinterested and
progress to borderline surly by the time we reached the loading
area.
We interacted with four members of staff in our short visit and
didn't receive an ounce of actual customer service from any of
them. Makes you wonder if this aspect of their job is ever
checked or considered at any point.

Would you on minimum wage?

Damn right I would. Acting like losers ensures people stay losers.

it shows poor management.

On Monday, 20 February 2017 13:00:02 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Sunday, 19 February 2017 11:30:08 UTC, tabby wrote:
On Saturday, 18 February 2017 22:51:49 UTC, Max Demian wrote:
On 18/02/2017 22:19, TheChief wrote:
Ok so the good news is that we have finally found a table for the
kitchen after deciding we wanted one about 2 years
ago.

As we live in Hull with no IKEA, our first exposure was visiting
the Edinburgh store last weekend with our daughter.
There we saw just what we wanted, so headed off to the Leeds store
this morning.

Maybe nobody cares any more, but I could not believe the attitude
of the staff in there. It seemed to start at disinterested and
progress to borderline surly by the time we reached the loading
area.
We interacted with four members of staff in our short visit and
didn't receive an ounce of actual customer service from any of
them. Makes you wonder if this aspect of their job is ever
checked or considered at any point.

Would you on minimum wage?

Damn right I would. Acting like losers ensures people stay losers.

it shows poor management.

either poor managers or poor workers. (Or both.) It's the shop floor workers that are doing it after all.


NT

On Monday, 20 February 2017 13:04:13 UTC, wrote:
On Monday, 20 February 2017 13:00:02 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Sunday, 19 February 2017 11:30:08 UTC, tabby wrote:
On Saturday, 18 February 2017 22:51:49 UTC, Max Demian wrote:
On 18/02/2017 22:19, TheChief wrote:
Ok so the good news is that we have finally found a table for the
kitchen after deciding we wanted one about 2 years
ago.

As we live in Hull with no IKEA, our first exposure was visiting
the Edinburgh store last weekend with our daughter.
There we saw just what we wanted, so headed off to the Leeds store
this morning.

Maybe nobody cares any more, but I could not believe the attitude
of the staff in there. It seemed to start at disinterested and
progress to borderline surly by the time we reached the loading
area.
We interacted with four members of staff in our short visit and
didn't receive an ounce of actual customer service from any of
them. Makes you wonder if this aspect of their job is ever
checked or considered at any point.

Would you on minimum wage?

Damn right I would. Acting like losers ensures people stay losers.

it shows poor management.

either poor managers or poor workers. (Or both.) It's the shop floor workers that are doing it after all.

even shop floor workers need to have some sort of training or should have.

In article ,
charles wrote:
Interesting. What is your most frequent purchase at a supermarket?
Milk kept in a fridge will last the best part of a week. Eggs much
longer. About the only thing I can think of that is best bought every
day is some types of bread. And at the local Lidl, the bakery is the
first bit you'd come to if circulating the store normally.


Fruit & veg first - then the bakery

Most of the big supermarkets round here have the fruit and veg at the
entrance. Smaller stores often outside. ;-)

--
*I used up all my sick days so I called in dead

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
wrote:
On Monday, 20 February 2017 13:00:02 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Sunday, 19 February 2017 11:30:08 UTC, tabby wrote:
On Saturday, 18 February 2017 22:51:49 UTC, Max Demian wrote:
On 18/02/2017 22:19, TheChief wrote:
Ok so the good news is that we have finally found a table for the
kitchen after deciding we wanted one about 2 years
ago.

As we live in Hull with no IKEA, our first exposure was visiting
the Edinburgh store last weekend with our daughter.
There we saw just what we wanted, so headed off to the Leeds store
this morning.

Maybe nobody cares any more, but I could not believe the attitude
of the staff in there. It seemed to start at disinterested and
progress to borderline surly by the time we reached the loading
area.
We interacted with four members of staff in our short visit and
didn't receive an ounce of actual customer service from any of
them. Makes you wonder if this aspect of their job is ever
checked or considered at any point.

Would you on minimum wage?

Damn right I would. Acting like losers ensures people stay losers.

it shows poor management.

either poor managers or poor workers. (Or both.) It's the shop floor
workers that are doing it after all.

Isn't it the job of management to make sure the floor staff serve the
customers properly? If not, please say what it is?

--
*If a turtle doesn't have a shell, is he homeless or naked?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 11:13:34 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
Our local supermarkets all only have one entry / exit area (generally
the front) as does the Tesco superstore and all the Expresses (and
again, they all generally keep things like milk (at least) bread and
eggs nowhere near the front doors).

Interesting.

I thought it was well know retailing practice?

What is your most frequent purchase at a supermarket? Milk
kept in a fridge will last the best part of a week.

I would say we have to 'top up' the milk more often than anything else
(as daughter will often drink a couple of glasses of the stuff). I
only have milk in tea and coffee as I have been trying the likes of
Rice Milk to see if I have a milk allergy.

Eggs much longer.

Yup. We tend to have a dozen in stock but I will generally have two a
day and the Mrs often the same. So, we need another dozen every 4 days
or so?

About the only thing I can think of that is best bought every day is some
types of bread.

We don't tend to buy that sort (for that reason).

And at the local Lidl, the bakery is the first bit you'd
come to if circulating the store normally.

Same with ours but not Sainsbury's or Tesco / Tesco Express (all
fairly near the back).

But then I've long come to realise that if I go to any store for any one
item, it will always be as far away from the entrance as possible. ;-)

Yup ... or out of stock ... ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 11:16:41 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 11:13:34 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
[quoted text muted]

Interesting. What is your most frequent purchase at a supermarket? Milk
kept in a fridge will last the best part of a week. Eggs much longer.

UK eggs do not need to be kept in the fridge (notice they aren't at the
supermarket).

Refrigerating eggs is a Yank habit (like pasteurising everything) because
(for some reason) they wash the eggs which removes the airtight
protection.

I knew a guy who grew tomatoes (commercially) and also kept a few
chickens for their eggs.

Because some of the eggs had some chicken cr*p on them he washed them
in a bucket of water and many of the people who ate them got food
poisoning. ;-(

I think eggs have a permeable membrane and that allowed the
contaminated water into the egg. ;-(

Cheers, T i m

Jethro_uk wrote:
On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 11:13:34 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
[quoted text muted]

Interesting. What is your most frequent purchase at a supermarket? Milk
kept in a fridge will last the best part of a week. Eggs much longer.

UK eggs do not need to be kept in the fridge (notice they aren't at the
supermarket).

Depends on how warm your house is and how long they sit around for. It's
was probably true in our childhood but we've certainly had a few eggs go
off when we went through a phase of *not* storing them in the fridge.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Chris J Dixon

Snip

I visited Wolverhampton on its opening day, to return a spare
roll of wallpaper - also meant I could get in through customer
services and avoid the queues :-)

ITYM Wednesbury

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 21/02/17 10:16, jim wrote:
Chris J Dixon

Snip

I visited Wolverhampton on its opening day, to return a spare
roll of wallpaper - also meant I could get in through customer
services and avoid the queues :-)

ITYM Wednesbury

Tuesbury Surely?


--
Those who want slavery should have the grace to name it by its proper
name. They must face the full meaning of that which they are advocating
or condoning; the full, exact, specific meaning of collectivism, of its
logical implications, of the principles upon which it is based, and of
the ultimate consequences to which these principles will lead. They must
face it, then decide whether this is what they want or not.

Ayn Rand.

In article ,
Chris J Dixon wrote:
I visited Wolverhampton on its opening day, to return a spare
roll of wallpaper - also meant I could get in through customer
services and avoid the queues :-)


It was the queue at customer services which really ****ed me off. Croydon
branch on a Saturday. The entire borough seemed to be returning things
they'd bought earlier. And I just wanted the missing bits from a pack I'd
bought the day before replaced.

After waiting about two hours and still not near the front of the queue, I
went into the warehouse, open a pack of the desk I'd bought, and got the
missing bits. And just walked out. I'd actually loved to have been
challenged...

--
*Where there's a will, I want to be in it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

jim wrote:

Chris J Dixon

Snip

I visited Wolverhampton on its opening day, to return a spare
roll of wallpaper - also meant I could get in through customer
services and avoid the queues :-)

ITYM Wednesbury

West of Birmingham, begins with "W", I was nearly there.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

On Tue, 21 Feb 2017 11:14:46 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Chris J Dixon wrote:
I visited Wolverhampton on its opening day, to return a spare
roll of wallpaper - also meant I could get in through customer
services and avoid the queues :-)


It was the queue at customer services which really ****ed me off. Croydon
branch on a Saturday.

There's your mistake. Never go to Ikea on a weekend, or during school
half term holidays.

In article ,
Bill Taylor wrote:
On Tue, 21 Feb 2017 11:14:46 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Chris J Dixon wrote:
I visited Wolverhampton on its opening day, to return a spare
roll of wallpaper - also meant I could get in through customer
services and avoid the queues :-)


It was the queue at customer services which really ****ed me off.
Croydon branch on a Saturday.

There's your mistake. Never go to Ikea on a weekend, or during school
half term holidays.

I had a half built bit of furniture cluttering up the place. Bought
earlier that week. And was working very long hours each day on the next
week.

--
*Jokes about German sausage are the wurst.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Monday, 20 February 2017 13:50:35 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 20 February 2017 13:04:13 UTC, tabby wrote:
On Monday, 20 February 2017 13:00:02 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Sunday, 19 February 2017 11:30:08 UTC, tabby wrote:
On Saturday, 18 February 2017 22:51:49 UTC, Max Demian wrote:
On 18/02/2017 22:19, TheChief wrote:

Maybe nobody cares any more, but I could not believe the attitude
of the staff in there. It seemed to start at disinterested and
progress to borderline surly by the time we reached the loading
area.
We interacted with four members of staff in our short visit and
didn't receive an ounce of actual customer service from any of
them. Makes you wonder if this aspect of their job is ever
checked or considered at any point.

Would you on minimum wage?

Damn right I would. Acting like losers ensures people stay losers.

it shows poor management.

either poor managers or poor workers. (Or both.) It's the shop floor workers that are doing it after all.

even shop floor workers need to have some sort of training or should have.

of course. But you can't always sack the ones that fall short.


NT

On Tuesday, 21 February 2017 16:14:12 UTC, wrote:
On Monday, 20 February 2017 13:50:35 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 20 February 2017 13:04:13 UTC, tabby wrote:
On Monday, 20 February 2017 13:00:02 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Sunday, 19 February 2017 11:30:08 UTC, tabby wrote:
On Saturday, 18 February 2017 22:51:49 UTC, Max Demian wrote:
On 18/02/2017 22:19, TheChief wrote:

Maybe nobody cares any more, but I could not believe the attitude
of the staff in there. It seemed to start at disinterested and
progress to borderline surly by the time we reached the loading
area.
We interacted with four members of staff in our short visit and
didn't receive an ounce of actual customer service from any of
them. Makes you wonder if this aspect of their job is ever
checked or considered at any point.

Would you on minimum wage?

Damn right I would. Acting like losers ensures people stay losers.

it shows poor management.

either poor managers or poor workers. (Or both.) It's the shop floor workers that are doing it after all.

even shop floor workers need to have some sort of training or should have.

of course. But you can't always sack the ones that fall short.

Fall short of what exactly ?.
My students ask me why the product they ordered with free UK delivery hasn't arrived in a couple of days, I have to point out that they have ordered it from china most likely.
A 'prime' example can you order this so I can have it before the weekend.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01NH578...eywords=OV2640

I said if he can find it in stock from a UK supplier then perhaps.

In article ,
wrote:
it shows poor management.

either poor managers or poor workers. (Or both.) It's the shop floor
workers that are doing it after all.

even shop floor workers need to have some sort of training or should
have.

of course. But you can't always sack the ones that fall short.

Yup. It should be much easier to sack poor managers.

--
*When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Chris J Dixon Wrote in message:
jim wrote:

Chris J Dixon

Snip

I visited Wolverhampton on its opening day, to return a spare
roll of wallpaper - also meant I could get in through customer
services and avoid the queues :-)

ITYM Wednesbury

West of Birmingham, begins with "W", I was nearly there.

Chris

Wales, Walsall, Wrexham, oh it'll do won't it?
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Tuesday, 21 February 2017 17:08:01 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
it shows poor management.

either poor managers or poor workers. (Or both.) It's the shop floor
workers that are doing it after all.

even shop floor workers need to have some sort of training or should
have.

of course. But you can't always sack the ones that fall short.

Yup. It should be much easier to sack poor managers.

It's easier to promote them.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 21 February 2017 17:08:01 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
it shows poor management.

either poor managers or poor workers. (Or both.) It's the shop
floor workers that are doing it after all.

even shop floor workers need to have some sort of training or
should have.

of course. But you can't always sack the ones that fall short.

Yup. It should be much easier to sack poor managers.

It's easier to promote them.

Very true. ;-)

--
*Remember: First you pillage, then you burn.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 21 February 2017 17:08:01 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
it shows poor management.

either poor managers or poor workers. (Or both.) It's the shop
floor workers that are doing it after all.

even shop floor workers need to have some sort of training or
should have.

of course. But you can't always sack the ones that fall short.

Yup. It should be much easier to sack poor managers.

It's easier to promote them.

Very true. ;-)

The Peter Principle, I believe.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 22/02/17 11:30, charles wrote:
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 21 February 2017 17:08:01 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
it shows poor management.

either poor managers or poor workers. (Or both.) It's the shop
floor workers that are doing it after all.

even shop floor workers need to have some sort of training or
should have.

of course. But you can't always sack the ones that fall short.

Yup. It should be much easier to sack poor managers.

It's easier to promote them.

Very true. ;-)

The Peter Principle, I believe.

Incompetence varies as the square of job security.

That's the basic equation of socialism.

As typified by the EU, which has never sacked anyone


--
"If you dont read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the
news paper, you are mis-informed."

Mark Twain

On 22/02/2017 11:30, charles wrote:
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 21 February 2017 17:08:01 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
it shows poor management.

either poor managers or poor workers. (Or both.) It's the shop
floor workers that are doing it after all.

even shop floor workers need to have some sort of training or
should have.

of course. But you can't always sack the ones that fall short.

Yup. It should be much easier to sack poor managers.

It's easier to promote them.

Very true. ;-)

The Peter Principle, I believe.

AIUI that states that if you can do your job you get promoted. This
keeps happening until you are in a level where you can't.

Andy

In article ,
Vir Campestris wrote:
On 22/02/2017 11:30, charles wrote:
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 21 February 2017 17:08:01 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
it shows poor management.

either poor managers or poor workers. (Or both.) It's the shop
floor workers that are doing it after all.

even shop floor workers need to have some sort of training or
should have.

of course. But you can't always sack the ones that fall short.

Yup. It should be much easier to sack poor managers.

It's easier to promote them.

Very true. ;-)

The Peter Principle, I believe.

AIUI that states that if you can do your job you get promoted. This
keeps happening until you are in a level where you can't.

Andy

"You get promoted to your level of incompetance" is the way I read it.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 22/02/2017 11:30, charles wrote:
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 21 February 2017 17:08:01 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
it shows poor management.

either poor managers or poor workers. (Or both.) It's the shop
floor workers that are doing it after all.

even shop floor workers need to have some sort of training or
should have.

of course. But you can't always sack the ones that fall short.

Yup. It should be much easier to sack poor managers.

It's easier to promote them.

Very true. ;-)

The Peter Principle, I believe.

Promoting people is also a way to get them moved out of the way to a
different office, if the company has a rule that people can't be
promoted on site.

--
Max Demian

"Max Demian" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 22/02/2017 11:30, charles wrote:
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 21 February 2017 17:08:01 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
it shows poor management.

either poor managers or poor workers. (Or both.) It's the shop
floor workers that are doing it after all.

even shop floor workers need to have some sort of training or
should have.

of course. But you can't always sack the ones that fall short.

Yup. It should be much easier to sack poor managers.

It's easier to promote them.

Very true. ;-)

The Peter Principle, I believe.

Promoting people is also a way to get them moved out of the way to a
different office, if the company has a rule that people can't be promoted
on site.

Why would a company have a rule that said that people can't be promoted on
site?

That seems to be the ultimate in creating dissatisfied employees for
usually, no benefit.

I can see that it might makes sense in an environment where it is absolutely
necessary for subordinates to "follow order" such as the Police/Fire service
(but there you would almost never promote someone who wasn't qualified to be
promoted, just to get them out of the way)

but beyond that, it's an absolutely nonsensical corporate policy

tim