I need to replace it - but how to get it off? Stilsons won't fit in the limited space round one of the nuts, and won't grip adequately the wrong way round. Also the amount of force needed on the nuts is surely liable to rip the copper pipe apart. At least one point I'went ok, with enough force I got the 2 valves to turn, and hopefully close. If they haven't it's gonna be messy.

Suggestions welcome!


NT

On 25/01/2017 12:54, wrote:
I need to replace it - but how to get it off? Stilsons won't fit in the limited space round one of the nuts, and won't grip adequately the wrong way round. Also the amount of force needed on the nuts is surely liable to rip the copper pipe apart. At least one point I'went ok, with enough force I got the 2 valves to turn, and hopefully close. If they haven't it's gonna be messy.

Suggestions welcome!


NT


A suggestion you won't like:

Drain down the system. Cut the copper pipe and remove the pump plus
valves. Replace with new.

HTH

wrote:
I need to replace it - but how to get it off? Stilsons won't fit in the limited space round one of the nuts, and won't grip adequately the wrong way round. Also the amount of force needed on the nuts is surely liable to rip the copper pipe apart. At least one point I'went ok, with enough force I got the 2 valves to turn, and hopefully close. If they haven't it's gonna be messy.

Suggestions welcome!


NT


I did ours recently with two pairs of what they call waterpump pliers
(hence the name, I suppose) - nothing else I had was big enough. I
would suggest making sure you have replacement washers - the old ones
may fall apart having been crushed for so long. Also, I was unable to
completely stop the valves from dripping - it might help if you have a
big tray and some towels handy :-)

wrote:

I need to replace it - but how to get it off? Stilsons won't fit in
the limited space round one of the nuts, and won't grip adequately
the wrong way round.

Sounds like the person fitting it thought "great, just enough space to
get the stilsons in to tighten it up" leaving the problem of removing it
to someone else much later on!

Can you get waterpump pliers in, instead?

On 25/01/2017 12:54, wrote:
I need to replace it - but how to get it off? Stilsons won't fit in the limited space round one of the nuts, and won't grip adequately the wrong way round. Also the amount of force needed on the nuts is surely liable to rip the copper pipe apart. At least one point I'went ok, with enough force I got the 2 valves to turn, and hopefully close. If they haven't it's gonna be messy.

Suggestions welcome!


NT

Plumbers have a specific spanner. I undid mine using a chain oil filter
wrench.

Mike

On 1/25/2017 1:15 PM, Muddymike wrote:
On 25/01/2017 12:54, wrote:
I need to replace it - but how to get it off? Stilsons won't fit in
the limited space round one of the nuts, and won't grip adequately the
wrong way round. Also the amount of force needed on the nuts is surely
liable to rip the copper pipe apart. At least one point I'went ok,
with enough force I got the 2 valves to turn, and hopefully close. If
they haven't it's gonna be messy.

Suggestions welcome!


NT

Plumbers have a specific spanner. I undid mine using a chain oil filter
wrench.

Mike

I have used a chain or strap wrench in the past. They can be *******s,
and are often installed somewhat inaccessibly. As GB says, cut and shut
may be your last resort.

On Wednesday, 25 January 2017 12:54:21 UTC, wrote:
I need to replace it - but how to get it off? Stilsons won't fit in the limited space round one of the nuts, and won't grip adequately the wrong way round. Also the amount of force needed on the nuts is surely liable to rip the copper pipe apart. At least one point I'went ok, with enough force I got the 2 valves to turn, and hopefully close. If they haven't it's gonna be messy.

Suggestions welcome!


NT

Maybe it depends on the type of pump but mine (Grundfos) can be changed by undoing the 4 screws holding the main part of the pump onto the base chamber. That way you don't need to loosen those large nuts. Just do the same with the new pump and fit it to the old in situ base.
Edgar

On Wednesday, 25 January 2017 13:36:45 UTC, wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 January 2017 12:54:21 UTC, wrote:
I need to replace it - but how to get it off? Stilsons won't fit in the limited space round one of the nuts, and won't grip adequately the wrong way round. Also the amount of force needed on the nuts is surely liable to rip the copper pipe apart. At least one point I'went ok, with enough force I got the 2 valves to turn, and hopefully close. If they haven't it's gonna be messy.

Suggestions welcome!


NT

Maybe it depends on the type of pump but mine (Grundfos) can be changed by undoing the 4 screws holding the main part of the pump onto the base chamber. That way you don't need to loosen those large nuts. Just do the same with the new pump and fit it to the old in situ base.
Edgar

PS.
If you do take the pump off this way it might be possible to get a better hold of the pipe nuts and take off the housing too. It is really a good idea to replace those washers if you can. E

On Wednesday, 25 January 2017 13:36:45 UTC, wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 January 2017 12:54:21 UTC, tabby wrote:

I need to replace it - but how to get it off? Stilsons won't fit in the limited space round one of the nuts, and won't grip adequately the wrong way round. Also the amount of force needed on the nuts is surely liable to rip the copper pipe apart. At least one point I'went ok, with enough force I got the 2 valves to turn, and hopefully close. If they haven't it's gonna be messy.

Suggestions welcome!


NT

Maybe it depends on the type of pump but mine (Grundfos) can be changed by undoing the 4 screws holding the main part of the pump onto the base chamber. That way you don't need to loosen those large nuts. Just do the same with the new pump and fit it to the old in situ base.
Edgar

Ah, I'm liking that one. The 2 pumps are identical so it's possible. But having undone the bolts on the replacement one, it still won't come apart. A good smack with a rubber mallet has been unpersuasive.


NT

On Wednesday, 25 January 2017 13:12:34 UTC, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
tabbypurr wrote:
I need to replace it - but how to get it off? Stilsons won't fit in the limited space round one of the nuts, and won't grip adequately the wrong way round. Also the amount of force needed on the nuts is surely liable to rip the copper pipe apart. At least one point I'went ok, with enough force I got the 2 valves to turn, and hopefully close. If they haven't it's gonna be messy.

Suggestions welcome!


NT


I did ours recently with two pairs of what they call waterpump pliers
(hence the name, I suppose) - nothing else I had was big enough. I
would suggest making sure you have replacement washers - the old ones
may fall apart having been crushed for so long. Also, I was unable to
completely stop the valves from dripping - it might help if you have a
big tray and some towels handy :-)

My water pump pliers, plural, are not quite big enough. Great for lots of jobs, but not water pumps it seems.


NT

wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 January 2017 13:12:34 UTC, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
tabbypurr wrote:
I need to replace it - but how to get it off? Stilsons won't fit in the limited space round one of the nuts, and won't grip adequately the wrong way round. Also the amount of force needed on the nuts is surely liable to rip the copper pipe apart. At least one point I'went ok, with enough force I got the 2 valves to turn, and hopefully close. If they haven't it's gonna be messy.

Suggestions welcome!


NT


I did ours recently with two pairs of what they call waterpump pliers
(hence the name, I suppose) - nothing else I had was big enough. I
would suggest making sure you have replacement washers - the old ones
may fall apart having been crushed for so long. Also, I was unable to
completely stop the valves from dripping - it might help if you have a
big tray and some towels handy :-)

My water pump pliers, plural, are not quite big enough. Great for lots of jobs, but not water pumps it seems.


NT


I saw some really big ones years ago, and got those. I never regretted
it, because they've been so useful ever since.

On Wednesday, 25 January 2017 14:07:41 UTC, wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 January 2017 13:36:45 UTC, wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 January 2017 12:54:21 UTC, tabby wrote:

I need to replace it - but how to get it off? Stilsons won't fit in the limited space round one of the nuts, and won't grip adequately the wrong way round. Also the amount of force needed on the nuts is surely liable to rip the copper pipe apart. At least one point I'went ok, with enough force I got the 2 valves to turn, and hopefully close. If they haven't it's gonna be messy.

Suggestions welcome!


NT

Maybe it depends on the type of pump but mine (Grundfos) can be changed by undoing the 4 screws holding the main part of the pump onto the base chamber. That way you don't need to loosen those large nuts. Just do the same with the new pump and fit it to the old in situ base.
Edgar

Ah, I'm liking that one. The 2 pumps are identical so it's possible. But having undone the bolts on the replacement one, it still won't come apart. A good smack with a rubber mallet has been unpersuasive.


NT

Oh well! Mine came apart easily - just a bit of a pry. Both the old and the new.
E

has brought this to us :
Ah, I'm liking that one. The 2 pumps are identical so it's possible. But
having undone the bolts on the replacement one, it still won't come apart. A
good smack with a rubber mallet has been unpersuasive.

Have you tried heat from a blow-lamp on the nuts, to expand them enough
to crack the seal?

Rather than cut the pipes, could you not desolder - drain down and get
enough heat onto the pipe, so it slide out of the socket at each end -
then undo the nuts on the bench where it is easy.

In article ,
GB wrote:
On 25/01/2017 12:54, wrote:
I need to replace it - but how to get it off? Stilsons won't fit in the limited space round one of the nuts, and won't grip adequately the wrong way round. Also the amount of force needed on the nuts is surely liable to rip the copper pipe apart. At least one point I'went ok, with enough force I got the 2 valves to turn, and hopefully close. If they haven't it's gonna be messy.

Suggestions welcome!


NT


A suggestion you won't like:

Drain down the system. Cut the copper pipe and remove the pump plus
valves. Replace with new.

Yes. I've only replaced one - but the nuts were so corroded on, they had
to be cut off. So getting all the bits in to do the job if you do have to
cut the pipe makes sense. Even if it had come off, I'd not have re-used
the nuts due to thread damage. Probably a brass to iron thing.

That pump had run happily for over 20 years. When I came to replace the
boiler - the new one had an internal pump - that replacement came off
easily.

--
*I can see your point, but I still think you're full of ****.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) laid this down on his screen :
Yes. I've only replaced one - but the nuts were so corroded on, they had
to be cut off.

Add some copperslip around the threads, during assembly.

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) laid this down on his screen :
Yes. I've only replaced one - but the nuts were so corroded on, they
had to be cut off.

Add some copperslip around the threads, during assembly.

I can't for the life of me remember if I fitted the original. Installing
the heating here was a joint operation with a pal, who was a qualified
plumber. I do remember doing all the wring, though.

I'd have used PTFE tape.

--
*What am I? Flypaper for freaks!?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 1/25/2017 2:07 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 January 2017 13:36:45 UTC, wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 January 2017 12:54:21 UTC, tabby wrote:

I need to replace it - but how to get it off? Stilsons won't fit in the limited space round one of the nuts, and won't grip adequately the wrong way round. Also the amount of force needed on the nuts is surely liable to rip the copper pipe apart. At least one point I'went ok, with enough force I got the 2 valves to turn, and hopefully close. If they haven't it's gonna be messy.

Suggestions welcome!


NT

Maybe it depends on the type of pump but mine (Grundfos) can be changed by undoing the 4 screws holding the main part of the pump onto the base chamber. That way you don't need to loosen those large nuts. Just do the same with the new pump and fit it to the old in situ base.
Edgar

Ah, I'm liking that one. The 2 pumps are identical so it's possible. But having undone the bolts on the replacement one, it still won't come apart. A good smack with a rubber mallet has been unpersuasive.


NT

IIRC the two bits are a close fit with an O ring seal. Needs a bigger smack!

On Wednesday, 25 January 2017 15:25:16 UTC, newshound wrote:
On 1/25/2017 2:07 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 January 2017 13:36:45 UTC, wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 January 2017 12:54:21 UTC, tabby wrote:

I need to replace it - but how to get it off? Stilsons won't fit in the limited space round one of the nuts, and won't grip adequately the wrong way round. Also the amount of force needed on the nuts is surely liable to rip the copper pipe apart. At least one point I'went ok, with enough force I got the 2 valves to turn, and hopefully close. If they haven't it's gonna be messy.

Suggestions welcome!


NT

Maybe it depends on the type of pump but mine (Grundfos) can be changed by undoing the 4 screws holding the main part of the pump onto the base chamber. That way you don't need to loosen those large nuts. Just do the same with the new pump and fit it to the old in situ base.
Edgar

Ah, I'm liking that one. The 2 pumps are identical so it's possible. But having undone the bolts on the replacement one, it still won't come apart.. A good smack with a rubber mallet has been unpersuasive.


NT

IIRC the two bits are a close fit with an O ring seal. Needs a bigger smack!

That's how they are. Maybe not a rubber mallet. Or try a pry at the joint. Undo the old one first. Once it's out there should be space to sort out fitting the new one. That way you only chance what's already scrap.
E

Dave Plowman (News) pretended :
I'd have used PTFE tape.

My pump connects using flat faces and fibre washers. I always use
copperslip where any threads might seize and never had an issue with
seized parts where I have.

On Wed, 25 Jan 2017 14:13:23 +0000, "Dan S. MacAbre"
wrote:


I did ours recently with two pairs of what they call waterpump pliers
(hence the name, I suppose) - nothing else I had was big enough.
My water pump pliers, plural, are not quite big enough. Great for lots of jobs, but not water pumps it seems.


NT


I saw some really big ones years ago, and got those. I never regretted
it, because they've been so useful ever since.

Same here ,Knipex Cobra XXl with a locking button so they don't
suddenly slip and handles designed that they won't trap fingers.
max pipe diameter 115mm .
Purchased them in Germany while I was out there doing a job.
ICBW but I think the equivalent of VAT on tools was cheaper than here
at the time and there was a considerable saving and when I purchased
them in 2005 I think they worked out about £29-£35 ish from an
engineering orientated tool shop in Bremerhaven.
Nearer the £70 mark now.

Don't use them that often but on occasions they have been a useful no
messing about tickling the job tool to have.

G.Harman

On Wednesday, 25 January 2017 13:12:05 UTC, GB wrote:
On 25/01/2017 12:54, wrote:
I need to replace it - but how to get it off? Stilsons won't fit in the limited space round one of the nuts, and won't grip adequately the wrong way round. Also the amount of force needed on the nuts is surely liable to rip the copper pipe apart. At least one point I'went ok, with enough force I got the 2 valves to turn, and hopefully close. If they haven't it's gonna be messy.

Suggestions welcome!


NT


A suggestion you won't like:

Drain down the system. Cut the copper pipe and remove the pump plus
valves. Replace with new.

HTH

Clearly a job for the angle grinder.

On Wednesday, 25 January 2017 14:07:41 UTC, tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 January 2017 13:36:45 UTC, wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 January 2017 12:54:21 UTC, tabby wrote:

I need to replace it - but how to get it off? Stilsons won't fit in the limited space round one of the nuts, and won't grip adequately the wrong way round. Also the amount of force needed on the nuts is surely liable to rip the copper pipe apart. At least one point I'went ok, with enough force I got the 2 valves to turn, and hopefully close. If they haven't it's gonna be messy.

Suggestions welcome!


NT

Maybe it depends on the type of pump but mine (Grundfos) can be changed by undoing the 4 screws holding the main part of the pump onto the base chamber. That way you don't need to loosen those large nuts. Just do the same with the new pump and fit it to the old in situ base.
Edgar

Ah, I'm liking that one. The 2 pumps are identical so it's possible. But having undone the bolts on the replacement one, it still won't come apart. A good smack with a rubber mallet has been unpersuasive.


NT

OK the job is done. Enough smacking eventually got the old pump to split. The impellor was clogged solid with debris, 15 minutes later it was cleared out & reassembled. So I've got a spare pump.

But this hasn't solved the main problem. I'll start a new boiler thread for it. Thanks everyone!


NT

A good raincoat and a plastic inflatable paddling pool on the floor perhaps?
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
wrote in message
...
I need to replace it - but how to get it off? Stilsons won't fit in the
limited space round one of the nuts, and won't grip adequately the wrong way
round. Also the amount of force needed on the nuts is surely liable to rip
the copper pipe apart. At least one point I'went ok, with enough force I got
the 2 valves to turn, and hopefully close. If they haven't it's gonna be
messy.

Suggestions welcome!


NT

On Wed, 25 Jan 2017 13:12:02 +0000, GB wrote:

Drain down the system. Cut the copper pipe and remove the pump plus
valves. Replace with new.

BTDTGTTS.

Don't use fibre washers, they bond rather too well to the flanges and
let by just enough damp to rust the iron and rust occupies (or tries
to) more space than iron thus jamming the valve nuts.

You can get "rubber" ones fit witha a smear of "rubber" safe grease,
they seal well but don't bond. The valves ought to be full bore 1/4
turn ball type rather than gate. Unless you fully close and open a
gate valve few times at least once a year it will never shut off
completely. When leaving "fully open" close it 1/4 to 1/2 a turn to
stop it jamming open.

I do like the idea of just swapping the motor/impellor assembly.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article ,
wrote:
I need to replace it - but how to get it off? Stilsons won't fit in the
limited space round one of the nuts, and won't grip adequately the wrong
way round. Also the amount of force needed on the nuts is surely liable
to rip the copper pipe apart. At least one point I'went ok, with enough
force I got the 2 valves to turn, and hopefully close. If they haven't
it's gonna be messy.

Suggestions welcome!

To check if the valves are fully off, loosen the air vent on the pump
(provided it's not at the back where you cann't get at it!) and see if the
water stops coming out (obviously put something to catch it) if so they
are turned off, if not you'll have to drain the system and replace them.

One of the tips that I learnt from the company that supplied the parts for
me to fit my central heating system in 1976 was not to use an integral
valve and fitting for the pump but to have the valves at least 3 inches
above and below the fitting for the pump so that 15 years later when the
pump needed replacing I could saw through the pipes and then replace with
new lengths of pipe with new pump fittings. It also made it easy when the
size of pumps changed.

Alan

--


Using an ARMX6