My grandson asked me what the large metal discs and crosses were on some
old cottages. I explained that they were metal plates spreading the load of
long bolts that were tying the walls of a building together to prevent them
spreading.

It got me thinking though:

1. What is the process called?
2. Is it still carried out?
3. Was it precautionary - or could walls be pulled back?

In article 6,
DerbyBorn wrote:
My grandson asked me what the large metal discs and crosses were on some
old cottages. I explained that they were metal plates spreading the load
of long bolts that were tying the walls of a building together to
prevent them spreading.

It got me thinking though:

1. What is the process called?
2. Is it still carried out?

3. Was it precautionary - or could walls be pulled back?


3. I was told in my school physics lessons that walls could be pulled back
by heating the rod inside the building, tightning the plates and then
letting the rod contract as it cooled.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 08/01/17 12:25, DerbyBorn wrote:
My grandson asked me what the large metal discs and crosses were on some
old cottages. I explained that they were metal plates spreading the load of
long bolts that were tying the walls of a building together to prevent them
spreading.

It got me thinking though:

1. What is the process called?

tie rods/wall ties

2. Is it still carried out?

yes, on older porperties.

3. Was it precautionary - or could walls be pulled back?

they could be to an extent pulled back, but mainly it was to stop them
falling apart further, generally after someone cut through something
structural, or it rotted away...or they built something on top...

On 08/01/17 12:35, charles wrote:
In article 6,
DerbyBorn wrote:
My grandson asked me what the large metal discs and crosses were on some
old cottages. I explained that they were metal plates spreading the load
of long bolts that were tying the walls of a building together to
prevent them spreading.

It got me thinking though:

1. What is the process called?
2. Is it still carried out?

3. Was it precautionary - or could walls be pulled back?


3. I was told in my school physics lessons that walls could be pulled back
by heating the rod inside the building, tightning the plates and then
letting the rod contract as it cooled.

you just have threaded ends and torque them up.

if the wall has bowed, it's because it is not very stiff to start with.

Huge wrote in
:

On 2017-01-08, charles wrote:
In article 6,
DerbyBorn wrote:
My grandson asked me what the large metal discs and crosses were on
some old cottages. I explained that they were metal plates spreading
the load of long bolts that were tying the walls of a building
together to prevent them spreading.

It got me thinking though:

1. What is the process called?
2. Is it still carried out?

3. Was it precautionary - or could walls be pulled back?


3. I was told in my school physics lessons that walls could be pulled
back by heating the rod inside the building, tightning the plates and
then letting the rod contract as it cooled.

Doing physics must have been very complicated on your planet with two
number 3's.

)



The second 3 was a response to first 3.

Well it used to occur on end of terrace buildings where the original
adjoining end was bombed during the war. they made a new end wall and
seemingly put some bolts through to something structural to keep it from
falling over.
Much better than a bit of old timber angled and wedged up against the
remaining wall! I was born in 1950, and could still see these when I was old
enought to remember.

Some of the prefabs were bolted together as well, which I always thought was
quite amusing.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"DerbyBorn" wrote in message
2.236...
My grandson asked me what the large metal discs and crosses were on some
old cottages. I explained that they were metal plates spreading the load
of
long bolts that were tying the walls of a building together to prevent
them
spreading.

It got me thinking though:

1. What is the process called?
2. Is it still carried out?
3. Was it precautionary - or could walls be pulled back?

On 08/01/17 10:25, DerbyBorn wrote:
My grandson asked me what the large metal discs and crosses were on some
old cottages. I explained that they were metal plates spreading the load of
long bolts that were tying the walls of a building together to prevent them
spreading.

It got me thinking though:

1. What is the process called?
2. Is it still carried out?
3. Was it precautionary - or could walls be pulled back?

Around here it was often precautionary, due to mining, and done by or on
behalf of the colliery. Known as "rodding at the chamber joist",
apparently (i.e: in the floor void of the 1st floor.

On 1/8/2017 10:35 AM, charles wrote:
In article 6,
DerbyBorn wrote:
My grandson asked me what the large metal discs and crosses were on some
old cottages. I explained that they were metal plates spreading the load
of long bolts that were tying the walls of a building together to
prevent them spreading.

It got me thinking though:

1. What is the process called?
2. Is it still carried out?

3. Was it precautionary - or could walls be pulled back?


3. I was told in my school physics lessons that walls could be pulled back
by heating the rod inside the building, tightning the plates and then
letting the rod contract as it cooled.


I've certainly heard that explanation too, it always seemed a bit
suspicious to me given that they often run between first floor joists.

Changing the subject, I went to a splendid lecture in the late 70's by a
guy from the Fasteners division of GKN who had been involved in
designing and fitting the rods through the tower at York Minster.

He said the "spec" was described thus:

corrosion resistant................OK
each fastener to take x tons.......OK
able to pass through 2 inch hole...OK

70 feet long..........

They are made from standard lengths of 1 inch stainless studding which
IIRC are about 20 feet long, connected by simple threaded couplers.

DerbyBorn Wrote in message:
My grandson asked me what the large metal discs and crosses were on some
old cottages. I explained that they were metal plates spreading the load of
long bolts that were tying the walls of a building together to prevent them
spreading.

It got me thinking though:

1. What is the process called?
2. Is it still carried out?
3. Was it precautionary - or could walls be pulled back?


My first house was end of terrace. The next house along, the end
of another terrace, had the disc style load spreaders on the end
wall towards the front of the property.
The characters that did the place up put some wood cladding below
the upper floor front window and wrapped it round the corner to
cover the steel discs.
Ingenious as I suspect that most cautious buyers would think twice
about buying a place that showed signs of collapse.

Phil
--


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Known as "rodding at the chamber joist",

Now there's a euphemism if ever there was one.



--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On 08/01/2017 10:53, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
they could be to an extent pulled back, but mainly it was to stop them
falling apart further, generally after someone cut through something
structural, or it rotted away...or they built something on top...

We've got one.

Once upon a time there was a tie beam at first floor knee level in the
wall separating the two peasant's hovels.

When they were joined and a door cut in the wall something was needed to
absorb the outwards thrust from the roof joists. I've seen some where
the door cill is at knee level still.

Andy

En el artículo ,
newshound escribió:

I've certainly heard that explanation too, it always seemed a bit
suspicious to me given that they often run between first floor joists.

Why suspicious? If wall spreading was severe enough, the joists could
pop out of their mounts, leading to floor collapse. Tying prevents
this. Have I missed something?

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
(")_(")

En el artículo 6,
DerbyBorn escribió:

1. What is the process called?

Tying, or tie-ing.

3. Was it precautionary - or could walls be pulled back?

in extreme cases, the rod was heated then the nuts done up. as the rod
cooled, the walls were pulled in.

Tie plate spotting is a thing - some of the designs are quite
attractive.

http://www.redgwick.co.uk/

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
(")_(")

TheChief wrote:

My first house was end of terrace. The next house along, the end
of another terrace, had the disc style load spreaders on the end
wall towards the front of the property.
The characters that did the place up put some wood cladding below
the upper floor front window and wrapped it round the corner to
cover the steel discs.
Ingenious as I suspect that most cautious buyers would think twice
about buying a place that showed signs of collapse.

A friend once lived in an old end terrace which had a couple of
ties, with the traditional external "X", fitted. I was surprised
to find, when lifting an upstairs floorboard, that the inboard
end of each was a thin strap (no more than 3 mm) set on top of
the joist, which had been cut away to take it, and secured with a
couple of no 8 woodscrews.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artÃ*culo 6,
DerbyBorn escribió:

1. What is the process called?

Tying, or tie-ing.

3. Was it precautionary - or could walls be pulled back?

in extreme cases, the rod was heated then the nuts done up. as the rod
cooled, the walls were pulled in.

How do you heat up a rod sufficiently when it's between floors/joists
without setting the building on fire? That's the bit that seems a bit
unlikely.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

En el artículo , Tim+
escribió:

How do you heat up a rod sufficiently when it's between floors/joists
without setting the building on fire?

Dunno. Maybe it was only done in locations where the tie bar is in free
air, such as churches, etc.

This patent for heating tie bars is interesting.

http://www.google.co.uk/patents/US2910933

it describes using AC electricity at heavy currents to heat the tie bar.
Might have been a bit tricky in the sixteenth century, though.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
(")_(")

In article ,
Tim+ wrote:
Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo 6,
DerbyBorn escribió:

1. What is the process called?

Tying, or tie-ing.

3. Was it precautionary - or could walls be pulled back?

in extreme cases, the rod was heated then the nuts done up. as the rod
cooled, the walls were pulled in.

How do you heat up a rod sufficiently when it's between floors/joists
without setting the building on fire? That's the bit that seems a bit
unlikely.

I have also seen tie roads with a tightning device in the middle.
Presumably for situations like this.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

Mike Tomlinson wrote in
:

http://www.redgwick.co.uk/

Thanks - fascinating.

On Mon, 9 Jan 2017 05:23:13 +0000, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

in extreme cases, the rod was heated then the nuts done up. as the rod
cooled, the walls were pulled in.

Wouldn't that set fire to the joists/flooring? Or at least put them
in danger.

On Mon, 9 Jan 2017 08:11:44 -0000 (UTC), Tim+ wrote:

How do you heat up a rod sufficiently when it's between
floors/joists without setting the building on fire? That's the
bit that seems a bit unlikely.

Exactly.

On 1/9/2017 5:18 AM, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo ,
newshound escribió:

I've certainly heard that explanation too, it always seemed a bit
suspicious to me given that they often run between first floor joists.

Why suspicious? If wall spreading was severe enough, the joists could
pop out of their mounts, leading to floor collapse. Tying prevents
this. Have I missed something?


Too much snipped. I was suspicious of how you would safely get the bars
hot enough to get decent expansion while they were adjacent to joists
and floorboards (assuming no ceilings). More realistic these days with
large electrical supplies, but in the old days you might be restricted
to charcoal fires or big blowlamps.

On 1/9/2017 8:44 AM, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , Tim+
escribió:

How do you heat up a rod sufficiently when it's between floors/joists
without setting the building on fire?

Dunno. Maybe it was only done in locations where the tie bar is in free
air, such as churches, etc.

This patent for heating tie bars is interesting.

http://www.google.co.uk/patents/US2910933

it describes using AC electricity at heavy currents to heat the tie bar.
Might have been a bit tricky in the sixteenth century, though.


My thoughts too. Although I have normally assumed the repairs were
typically 19th or early 20th Century, perhaps just about 18th, with the
increasing availability of larger bits of iron or steel.

Huge wrote:

On 2017-01-09, Chris J Dixon wrote:

A friend once lived in an old end terrace which had a couple of
ties, with the traditional external "X", fitted. I was surprised
to find, when lifting an upstairs floorboard, that the inboard
end of each was a thin strap (no more than 3 mm) set on top of
the joist, which had been cut away to take it, and secured with a
couple of no 8 woodscrews.

Could it have been cosmetic?

I have no idea of the history, but can't think why anybody would
bother doing anything at all internally if it was just for show.
The wall was not flat in any plane, which meant that when my
friend fitted new kitchen units, some interesting work was
necessary.

I guess it was to prevent further movement, rather than pull it
back into alignment.

I recall a brick gable end at work which was moving in strong
winds. Their quick fix was a couple of RSJs in a cross formation.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

On Sunday, 8 January 2017 10:25:32 UTC, DerbyBorn wrote:
My grandson asked me what the large metal discs and crosses were on some
old cottages. I explained that they were metal plates spreading the load of
long bolts that were tying the walls of a building together to prevent them
spreading.

It got me thinking though:

1. What is the process called?
2. Is it still carried out?
3. Was it precautionary - or could walls be pulled back?

You can still buy them.
http://www.redgwick.co.uk/

On Mon, 9 Jan 2017 12:12:15 +0000, newshound wrote:

On 1/9/2017 8:44 AM, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , Tim+
escribió:

How do you heat up a rod sufficiently when it's between
floors/joists without setting the building on fire?

Dunno. Maybe it was only done in locations where the tie bar is
in free air, such as churches, etc.

This patent for heating tie bars is interesting.

http://www.google.co.uk/patents/US2910933

it describes using AC electricity at heavy currents to heat the
tie bar. Might have been a bit tricky in the sixteenth century,
though.


My thoughts too. Although I have normally assumed the repairs
were typically 19th or early 20th Century, perhaps just about
18th, with the increasing availability of larger bits of iron or
steel.

Probably they tightened things up in the summertime when the rods
expanded, then in winter the walls would be pulled in. Bit like the
railways although the rail lengths are long enough to make expansion
on sunny days a problem.

On 09-Jan-17 12:08 PM, newshound wrote:
On 1/9/2017 5:18 AM, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo ,
newshound escribió:

I've certainly heard that explanation too, it always seemed a bit
suspicious to me given that they often run between first floor joists.

Why suspicious? If wall spreading was severe enough, the joists could
pop out of their mounts, leading to floor collapse. Tying prevents
this. Have I missed something?


Too much snipped. I was suspicious of how you would safely get the bars
hot enough to get decent expansion while they were adjacent to joists
and floorboards (assuming no ceilings). More realistic these days with
large electrical supplies, but in the old days you might be restricted
to charcoal fires or big blowlamps.

Just pack the area around it with asbestos wool. :-)

--
--

Colin Bignell

On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 10:25:30 GMT, DerbyBorn wrote:

My grandson asked me what the large metal discs and crosses were on some
old cottages. I explained that they were metal plates spreading the load of
long bolts that were tying the walls of a building together to prevent them
spreading.

It got me thinking though:

1. What is the process called?
2. Is it still carried out?
3. Was it precautionary - or could walls be pulled back?

You've got most of the answers already but here's a rubbish quality clip of Fred
Dibnah fitting them to his house a few decades ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8l0yCtWpSVw

--

On 09/01/2017 18:48, mechanic wrote:
Probably they tightened things up in the summertime when the rods
expanded, then in winter the walls would be pulled in. Bit like the
railways although the rail lengths are long enough to make expansion
on sunny days a problem.

I don't think that would make much difference. A 60 foot length of rail
track would have a gap of less than an inch. That sort of contraction
wouldn't make much difference to a visible bulge in a wall.

--
Mike Clarke