Having been driving for 40 years ... the most that has ever gone wrong
on the Transmission side of things is a slipping clutch or a leaky prop
shaft oil seal.

Last week car (New Jeep Cherokee) which has a ZF 9 speed automatic
transmission, would not start, declared "park sensors faulty" - wiped
them clean in case it was just mud.

Still wouldn't start now declared "parking brake faulty" .. car has
electronic & automatic handbrake.

Multiple attempts on manually turning parking brake on & off then it
finally started - only to be limited to about 5mph (found out this is
Limp mode)
Trying to put car back in driveway found any attempt to move to D or R
and I got a big thud and the car jerked .. much like snapping your foot
off the clutch on a manual car.

Switched all off - locked it up and left in 5 mins ..... then returned
and all back to normal, working fine only issue there is now engine
management light on.

Called Main dealer who I bought it from, and they advise they can't look
at it until 19th Jan as workshop is busy !!! (22 days at that point)
and suggest I call out Roadside Assistance (included with car)

Called out roadside assistance ... they advised no roadside assistance,
all they will do as management light is on is 'on truck' recovery to dealer.

It got to dealer who after some pressure at least plugged in Laptop to
diagnose Engine Management light ..... Transmission failure.

Result is I need a new gearbox and new transaxle ........ wow !

The Jeep originated form Willys Jeep of WW2 that was designed to be
reliable and robust.

This car, with less than 10,000 miles, never been off roaded, is having
a complete Transmission replacement - due to software alarms.


Th cost of this must be very high (I'm not paying) .... just as well
JEEPS didn't have software alarms in WW2

On Thursday, 5 January 2017 18:08:58 UTC, rick wrote:
Having been driving for 40 years ... the most that has ever gone wrong
on the Transmission side of things is a slipping clutch or a leaky prop
shaft oil seal.

Last week car (New Jeep Cherokee)

whoops. You live & learn.

rick wrote:
Having been driving for 40 years ... the most that has ever gone wrong
on the Transmission side of things is a slipping clutch or a leaky prop
shaft oil seal.

Last week car (New Jeep Cherokee) which has a ZF 9 speed automatic
transmission, would not start, declared "park sensors faulty" - wiped
them clean in case it was just mud.

Still wouldn't start now declared "parking brake faulty" .. car has
electronic & automatic handbrake.

Multiple attempts on manually turning parking brake on & off then it
finally started - only to be limited to about 5mph (found out this is
Limp mode)
Trying to put car back in driveway found any attempt to move to D or R
and I got a big thud and the car jerked .. much like snapping your foot
off the clutch on a manual car.

Switched all off - locked it up and left in 5 mins ..... then returned
and all back to normal, working fine only issue there is now engine
management light on.

Called Main dealer who I bought it from, and they advise they can't look
at it until 19th Jan as workshop is busy !!! (22 days at that point)
and suggest I call out Roadside Assistance (included with car)

Called out roadside assistance ... they advised no roadside assistance,
all they will do as management light is on is 'on truck' recovery to dealer.

It got to dealer who after some pressure at least plugged in Laptop to
diagnose Engine Management light ..... Transmission failure.

Result is I need a new gearbox and new transaxle ........ wow !

The Jeep originated form Willys Jeep of WW2 that was designed to be
reliable and robust.

This car, with less than 10,000 miles, never been off roaded, is having
a complete Transmission replacement - due to software alarms.


Th cost of this must be very high (I'm not paying) .... just as well
JEEPS didn't have software alarms in WW2






Jeep Cherokee. Enough said. ;-)

More seriously, just because the dealer thinks it's the transmission in
this day and age it could just as easily be a £5 sensor somewhere that's
duff. My DSG Touran gearbox started playing silly buggers and the dealers
didn't have a clue. Eventually a wheel sensor fault flagged itself up. Lo
and behold, the gearbox was "fixed" by changing the wheel sensor.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On Thursday, 5 January 2017 18:29:02 UTC, Tim+ wrote:
rick wrote:

Last week car (New Jeep Cherokee) which has a ZF 9 speed automatic
transmission, would not start, declared "park sensors faulty" - wiped
them clean in case it was just mud.

Jeep Cherokee. Enough said. ;-)

More seriously,

It's not a joke, it's routine for American cars to be delivered faulty.


NT

On 05/01/2017 18:33, wrote:
On Thursday, 5 January 2017 18:29:02 UTC, Tim+ wrote:
rick wrote:

Last week car (New Jeep Cherokee) which has a ZF 9 speed automatic
transmission, would not start, declared "park sensors faulty" - wiped
them clean in case it was just mud.

Jeep Cherokee. Enough said. ;-)

More seriously,

It's not a joke, it's routine for American cars to be delivered faulty.

or have women driving

http://viz.co.uk/the-sexist-book-of-...turning-right/


--
Adam

On 05/01/2017 18:27, Tim+ wrote:


More seriously, just because the dealer thinks it's the transmission in
this day and age it could just as easily be a £5 sensor somewhere that's
duff.

How many sensors on a modern car can you get for £5. Even on my last
car (a ford Escort) an intermittent problem was diagnosed as one of two
sensors. One at £90 the other over £100. The advice of my local (non
main dealer) garage was the wait till the intermittent problem becomes
permanent - we will then stand a better chance of changing the correct
sensor.


--
Chris B (News)

In article ,
Chris B wrote:
On 05/01/2017 18:27, Tim+ wrote:


More seriously, just because the dealer thinks it's the transmission
in this day and age it could just as easily be a £5 sensor somewhere
that's duff.

How many sensors on a modern car can you get for £5. Even on my last
car (a ford Escort) an intermittent problem was diagnosed as one of two
sensors. One at £90 the other over £100. The advice of my local (non
main dealer) garage was the wait till the intermittent problem becomes
permanent - we will then stand a better chance of changing the correct
sensor.

Like all car bits, many of these things are an outrageous price.

--
*WHERE DO FOREST RANGERS GO TO "GET AWAY FROM IT ALL?"

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Chris B wrote:
On 05/01/2017 18:27, Tim+ wrote:


More seriously, just because the dealer thinks it's the transmission in
this day and age it could just as easily be a £5 sensor somewhere that's
duff.

How many sensors on a modern car can you get for £5.

Okay, it was just a guess. Of course what the dealer charges you bears
little relation to the cost price. ;-)

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 06/01/17 14:53, Tim+ wrote:
Chris B wrote:
On 05/01/2017 18:27, Tim+ wrote:


More seriously, just because the dealer thinks it's the transmission in
this day and age it could just as easily be a £5 sensor somewhere that's
duff.

How many sensors on a modern car can you get for £5.

Okay, it was just a guess. Of course what the dealer charges you bears
little relation to the cost price. ;-)

Tim

water temp sensor £6.50 IIRC.

In article ,
Tim+ wrote:
Chris B wrote:
On 05/01/2017 18:27, Tim+ wrote:


More seriously, just because the dealer thinks it's the transmission in
this day and age it could just as easily be a £5 sensor somewhere that's
duff.

How many sensors on a modern car can you get for £5.

Okay, it was just a guess. Of course what the dealer charges you bears
little relation to the cost price. ;-)

Very true. Needed a new air mass sensor for the Boxster. Just a plastic
tube about 6" diameter and 6" long with the sensor inside. Look at it and
you'd say 20 quid. Made by Bosch. Porsche main dealer price £450. Trade
from a Bosch dealer, £130. Same Bosch part number engraved on both.

--
*According to my calculations, the problem doesn't exist.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim+ wrote:
Chris B wrote:
On 05/01/2017 18:27, Tim+ wrote:


More seriously, just because the dealer thinks it's the transmission
in this day and age it could just as easily be a £5 sensor somewhere
that's duff.

How many sensors on a modern car can you get for £5.

Okay, it was just a guess. Of course what the dealer charges you bears
little relation to the cost price. ;-)

Very true. Needed a new air mass sensor for the Boxster. Just a plastic
tube about 6" diameter and 6" long with the sensor inside. Look at it and
you'd say 20 quid. Made by Bosch. Porsche main dealer price £450. Trade
from a Bosch dealer, £130. Same Bosch part number engraved on both.

Back in the 60s. the Mini & the Anglia had the same generator. £5/10/- from
BMC , but only £5 - from Ford.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On Friday, 6 January 2017 10:05:53 UTC, Chris B wrote:
How many sensors on a modern car can you get for £5.

At least one, if you buy on ebay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/401054593539

I expect used ones will start appearing in scrapyards quite soon.

Owain

On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 10:05:18 -0000, Chris B wrote:

On 05/01/2017 18:27, Tim+ wrote:


More seriously, just because the dealer thinks it's the transmission in
this day and age it could just as easily be a £5 sensor somewhere that's
duff.

How many sensors on a modern car can you get for £5. Even on my last
car (a ford Escort) an intermittent problem was diagnosed as one of two
sensors. One at £90 the other over £100. The advice of my local (non
main dealer) garage was the wait till the intermittent problem becomes
permanent - we will then stand a better chance of changing the correct
sensor.

VW Golf genuine ABS sensor £12. Fake sensor £5.

Honda CRV genuine ABS sensor £160. Fake sensor not available.

Guess which company I prefer.

--
For men, the conversation happens in addition to driving
whereas for women the driving is something that happens in addition to the conversation.

In article ,
James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
VW Golf genuine ABS sensor £12. Fake sensor £5.


VW do *not* make such parts. They buy it in from someone like Bosch, put
it in VW packaging and charge accordingly. The trick is to buy direct from
Bosch - or whoever makes the sensor.

But not recommended for people like you.

--
*IF YOU TRY TO FAIL, AND SUCCEED, WHICH HAVE YOU DONE?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 07/01/2017 11:09, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
VW Golf genuine ABS sensor £12. Fake sensor £5.


VW do *not* make such parts. They buy it in from someone like Bosch, put
it in VW packaging and charge accordingly. The trick is to buy direct from
Bosch - or whoever makes the sensor.

But not recommended for people like you.


The throttle position sensor on a Honda Jazz is
a Bosch product, and it costs over £400, and
you need to do something to the ECU after you
have changed it.

On Sat, 07 Jan 2017 11:09:59 -0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
VW Golf genuine ABS sensor £12. Fake sensor £5.


VW do *not* make such parts. They buy it in from someone like Bosch, put
it in VW packaging and charge accordingly. The trick is to buy direct from
Bosch - or whoever makes the sensor.

But not recommended for people like you.

Which means Bosch IS the genuine VW part.

--
Barber: "Your hair is getting grey."
Customer: "Try cutting a little faster."

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2017-01-06, Chris B wrote:
On 05/01/2017 18:27, Tim+ wrote:


More seriously, just because the dealer thinks it's the transmission in
this day and age it could just as easily be a £5 sensor somewhere that's
duff.

How many sensors on a modern car can you get for £5. Even on my last
car (a ford Escort) an intermittent problem was diagnosed as one of two
sensors. One at £90 the other over £100.

That's what they *charge*. I'd be astonished if they actually *cost* 10%
of that. After all, an ECU with a few pounds worth of components in it
costs hundreds of pounds.

but there's a surprising amount of configuration and testing to pay for

I went for a job working for the people that make them.

The job consisted of programming all output values for all of the millions
of possible input conditions and then testing to destruction to make sure
that it was correct.

This has to be redone for each new engine that they configured their device
for.

Each new engine had a team of about 10 engineers working on the
configuration taking about a year to complete it.

Dead **** boring job, was glad not to get it :-)

tim







--
Today is Sweetmorn, the 6th day of Chaos in the YOLD 3183
I don't have an attitude problem.
If you have a problem with my attitude, that's your problem.

In article ,
tim... wrote:
That's what they *charge*. I'd be astonished if they actually *cost*
10% of that. After all, an ECU with a few pounds worth of components
in it costs hundreds of pounds.

but there's a surprising amount of configuration and testing to pay for

For the first one, yes. Spread that cost over perhaps the million made and
it's not so much.

I went for a job working for the people that make them.

The job consisted of programming all output values for all of the
millions of possible input conditions and then testing to destruction
to make sure that it was correct.

This has to be redone for each new engine that they configured their
device for.

Each new engine had a team of about 10 engineers working on the
configuration taking about a year to complete it.

Dunno when that was. I fitted a MegaSquirt to the old Rover - that's an
aftermarket programmable ECU. It virtually tunes itself using a wideband
O2 sensor. All the sensor inputs are easily configured.

Dead **** boring job, was glad not to get it :-)

I found it pretty enjoyable. You need to run the engine at all possible
loads and speeds to get the mapping just right.

--
*My dog can lick anyone

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Tim+ wrote in news
rick wrote:
Having been driving for 40 years ... the most that has ever gone
wrong on the Transmission side of things is a slipping clutch or a
leaky prop shaft oil seal.

Last week car (New Jeep Cherokee) which has a ZF 9 speed automatic
transmission, would not start, declared "park sensors faulty" - wiped
them clean in case it was just mud.

Still wouldn't start now declared "parking brake faulty" .. car has
electronic & automatic handbrake.

Multiple attempts on manually turning parking brake on & off then it
finally started - only to be limited to about 5mph (found out this
is Limp mode)
Trying to put car back in driveway found any attempt to move to D or
R and I got a big thud and the car jerked .. much like snapping your
foot off the clutch on a manual car.

Switched all off - locked it up and left in 5 mins ..... then
returned and all back to normal, working fine only issue there is now
engine management light on.

Called Main dealer who I bought it from, and they advise they can't
look at it until 19th Jan as workshop is busy !!! (22 days at that
point) and suggest I call out Roadside Assistance (included with
car)

Called out roadside assistance ... they advised no roadside
assistance, all they will do as management light is on is 'on truck'
recovery to dealer.

It got to dealer who after some pressure at least plugged in Laptop
to diagnose Engine Management light ..... Transmission failure.

Result is I need a new gearbox and new transaxle ........ wow !

The Jeep originated form Willys Jeep of WW2 that was designed to be
reliable and robust.
I can't believe it has any connection to the Willys Jeep - other than a
plagiarised name

"DerbyBorn" wrote in message
2.222...
Tim+ wrote in news
rick wrote:
Having been driving for 40 years ... the most that has ever gone
wrong on the Transmission side of things is a slipping clutch or a
leaky prop shaft oil seal.

Last week car (New Jeep Cherokee) which has a ZF 9 speed automatic
transmission, would not start, declared "park sensors faulty" - wiped
them clean in case it was just mud.

Still wouldn't start now declared "parking brake faulty" .. car has
electronic & automatic handbrake.

Multiple attempts on manually turning parking brake on & off then it
finally started - only to be limited to about 5mph (found out this
is Limp mode)
Trying to put car back in driveway found any attempt to move to D or
R and I got a big thud and the car jerked .. much like snapping your
foot off the clutch on a manual car.

Switched all off - locked it up and left in 5 mins ..... then
returned and all back to normal, working fine only issue there is now
engine management light on.

Called Main dealer who I bought it from, and they advise they can't
look at it until 19th Jan as workshop is busy !!! (22 days at that
point) and suggest I call out Roadside Assistance (included with
car)

Called out roadside assistance ... they advised no roadside
assistance, all they will do as management light is on is 'on truck'
recovery to dealer.

It got to dealer who after some pressure at least plugged in Laptop
to diagnose Engine Management light ..... Transmission failure.

Result is I need a new gearbox and new transaxle ........ wow !

The Jeep originated form Willys Jeep of WW2 that was designed to be
reliable and robust.
I can't believe it has any connection to the Willys Jeep - other than a
plagiarised name

The name wasn’t plagiarised, it was legally acquired.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeep#The_Jeep_brand

DerbyBorn wrote:
Tim+ wrote in news
rick wrote:
Having been driving for 40 years ... the most that has ever gone
wrong on the Transmission side of things is a slipping clutch or a
leaky prop shaft oil seal.

Last week car (New Jeep Cherokee) which has a ZF 9 speed automatic
transmission, would not start, declared "park sensors faulty" - wiped
them clean in case it was just mud.

Still wouldn't start now declared "parking brake faulty" .. car has
electronic & automatic handbrake.

Multiple attempts on manually turning parking brake on & off then it
finally started - only to be limited to about 5mph (found out this
is Limp mode)
Trying to put car back in driveway found any attempt to move to D or
R and I got a big thud and the car jerked .. much like snapping your
foot off the clutch on a manual car.

Switched all off - locked it up and left in 5 mins ..... then
returned and all back to normal, working fine only issue there is now
engine management light on.

Called Main dealer who I bought it from, and they advise they can't
look at it until 19th Jan as workshop is busy !!! (22 days at that
point) and suggest I call out Roadside Assistance (included with
car)

Called out roadside assistance ... they advised no roadside
assistance, all they will do as management light is on is 'on truck'
recovery to dealer.

It got to dealer who after some pressure at least plugged in Laptop
to diagnose Engine Management light ..... Transmission failure.

Result is I need a new gearbox and new transaxle ........ wow !

The Jeep originated form Willys Jeep of WW2 that was designed to be
reliable and robust.
I can't believe it has any connection to the Willys Jeep - other than a
plagiarised name


Well, it is now really a Fiat!

And not for the better with all these sensors which the grease monkeys don't
understand.
Brilliant idea though, a licence to print money.
Why is it that when you unlock the car Blackpool illuminations appear?
You place your snap tin on the passenger seat and the "beeps" start, fit
seatbelt.
It's all far too clever and waiting to be an expensive PITA.

On 1/5/2017 6:08 PM, rick wrote:
Having been driving for 40 years ... the most that has ever gone wrong
on the Transmission side of things is a slipping clutch or a leaky prop
shaft oil seal.

tale of woe snipped



Some of the software controlled stuff on cars is pretty good, look for
example at fuel consumption.

It strikes me that once you have a lot of sensors, and only
half-intelligent software that always tends to look on the dark side,
then you have a recipe for this sort of disaster.

And actually, it's not necessarily the "computer" that is the problem. I
cherish the story of a doctor friend from the mid 70's.

Driving from Cornwall to Bristol one evening with a two year old in the
car, a "brake warning" light came on. In those days, I think it could
only have been the fluid level switch in the reservoir cap (possibly the
pad wear sensor). The brakes were still working fine, but being of a
cautious nature she called out the AA. The van arrived, they said "Oh it
is a brake warning, we don't touch those, we have to call out the Relay
recovery vehicle". Another delay while this turned up, and took her to
the Somerset border where they had to change vehicle (it's the rules).
But the new vehicle had a puncture, and no spare, so there was another
few hours delay while that was sorted. Then they didn't have the right
kit for loading the car (Renault 5). In loading it, they ripped both
drive shaft gaiters and denting the sump. So she gets to Bristol from
Cornwall after 14 hours (with a two-year old passenger). Car gets
dropped at her garage. Next day, they phone to say they couldn't find
any brake fault. But it is in the garage for a week for a sump and drive
shaft replacement, paid for by the AA.

In those days, the cars I was driving didn't have a fluid level sensor,
but I guess *most* of us in those circumstances would have driven home
defensively, checking brake function and fluid level periodically.

So what do we need for modern cars, with sensors everywhere? Well, since
the 1960's the "space" sector has usually had three or four sensors for
each critical parameter, usually with some diversity, plus a voting
system (2 out of 3 or 3 out of 4).

I can't help thinking that we are going to need something like this in cars.

"newshound" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 1/5/2017 6:08 PM, rick wrote:
Having been driving for 40 years ... the most that has ever gone wrong
on the Transmission side of things is a slipping clutch or a leaky prop
shaft oil seal.

tale of woe snipped



Some of the software controlled stuff on cars is pretty good, look for
example at fuel consumption.

It strikes me that once you have a lot of sensors, and only
half-intelligent software that always tends to look on the dark side, then
you have a recipe for this sort of disaster.


well that obvious isn't it.

what sort of numpty programs an engine management system to show DOA because
of "parking sensor fault"

tim

On 05/01/17 19:05, newshound wrote:
On 1/5/2017 6:08 PM, rick wrote:
Having been driving for 40 years ... the most that has ever gone wrong
on the Transmission side of things is a slipping clutch or a leaky prop
shaft oil seal.

tale of woe snipped



Some of the software controlled stuff on cars is pretty good, look for
example at fuel consumption.

I wonder. I assume you are referring to cutting the engine when stopping
at lights, etc. Sure, it must save fuel, but how much? Well, with a 2l
engine it's around 600ml/hour. But how many cars idle for an hour
during a journey? Also, after a while engine cut-out won't work (at
least, it doesn't in my Jazz because it's designed that way). In
practice, it probably saves considerably less than a gallon a month.

I think that Honda makes its consumption figures up anyway. My figures,
based on the trip meter and petrol pump reading average 4 mpg less than
Honda's trip meter consumption reading every time I fill up.

(snip)

So what do we need for modern cars, with sensors everywhere? Well, since
the 1960's the "space" sector has usually had three or four sensors for
each critical parameter, usually with some diversity, plus a voting
system (2 out of 3 or 3 out of 4).

I can't help thinking that we are going to need something like this in cars.

Good luck with that. I have to click on a sort of legal agreement on the
lcd display every time I start the car! The lawyers won't allow anything
which exposes the company to any possible legal action.

--

Jeff

On 05/01/17 21:07, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 05/01/17 19:05, newshound wrote:
On 1/5/2017 6:08 PM, rick wrote:
Having been driving for 40 years ... the most that has ever gone wrong
on the Transmission side of things is a slipping clutch or a leaky prop
shaft oil seal.

tale of woe snipped



Some of the software controlled stuff on cars is pretty good, look for
example at fuel consumption.

I wonder. I assume you are referring to cutting the engine when stopping
at lights, etc. Sure, it must save fuel, but how much? Well, with a 2l
engine it's around 600ml/hour. But how many cars idle for an hour
during a journey? Also, after a while engine cut-out won't work (at
least, it doesn't in my Jazz because it's designed that way). In
practice, it probably saves considerably less than a gallon a month.

I think that Honda makes its consumption figures up anyway. My figures,
based on the trip meter and petrol pump reading average 4 mpg less than
Honda's trip meter consumption reading every time I fill up.



Try "Honest John mpg" - it's a website that collates users' mpg figures
by car.

On 05/01/17 21:22, Tim Watts wrote:
On 05/01/17 21:07, Jeff Layman wrote:


I think that Honda makes its consumption figures up anyway. My figures,
based on the trip meter and petrol pump reading average 4 mpg less than
Honda's trip meter consumption reading every time I fill up.

Try "Honest John mpg" - it's a website that collates users' mpg figures
by car.

Interesting link, but it's not clear how the real mpg figure is
obtained. It's not the EC official figure I'm questioning, but the mpg
figure on the car's display.

I checked my average for last year, and the Jazz's displayed mpg average
was 50.3 (Honest John's real mpg figure is 49.6). My calculated average
figure (trip meter mileage divided by petrol pump reading when pump
automatically stops) was 46.3.

--

Jeff

In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:
I checked my average for last year, and the Jazz's displayed mpg average
was 50.3 (Honest John's real mpg figure is 49.6). My calculated average
figure (trip meter mileage divided by petrol pump reading when pump
automatically stops) was 46.3.

How many tanks did you do this over? One isn't enough. You can't guarantee
you started and ended with the same amount of fuel in the tank.

--
*Why do psychics have to ask you for your name? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thursday, 5 January 2017 22:41:17 UTC, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 05/01/17 21:22, Tim Watts wrote:
On 05/01/17 21:07, Jeff Layman wrote:


I think that Honda makes its consumption figures up anyway. My figures,
based on the trip meter and petrol pump reading average 4 mpg less than
Honda's trip meter consumption reading every time I fill up.

Try "Honest John mpg" - it's a website that collates users' mpg figures
by car.

Interesting link, but it's not clear how the real mpg figure is
obtained. It's not the EC official figure I'm questioning, but the mpg
figure on the car's display.

I checked my average for last year, and the Jazz's displayed mpg average
was 50.3 (Honest John's real mpg figure is 49.6). My calculated average
figure (trip meter mileage divided by petrol pump reading when pump
automatically stops) was 46.3.

--

Jeff

Depends on your driving style and how hilly/bendy the roads are it is round your way.
Alos rural/urban driving is different.

On 05/01/2017 21:07, Jeff Layman wrote:

I wonder. I assume you are referring to cutting the engine when stopping
at lights, etc. Sure, it must save fuel, but how much?

Tiff Needel on Fifth gear did a test in town driving (lots of lights
congestion etc) and got the result that it saved north of 1% (exact
figure eludes me). So worth having on a 'city car'.

Friend of mine's is a driving instructor his car has this auto engine
off feature he reckons it's a god-send for his type of driving (lots of
stationery to explain things) and reckons it can save him up to 10% on
his fuel bills

On 06/01/17 02:44, soup wrote:
a god-send for his type of driving (lots of
stationery to explain things)

Does he write everythuing down then?

On 06/01/2017 00:44, soup wrote:
On 05/01/2017 21:07, Jeff Layman wrote:

I wonder. I assume you are referring to cutting the engine when stopping
at lights, etc. Sure, it must save fuel, but how much?

Tiff Needel on Fifth gear did a test in town driving (lots of lights
congestion etc) and got the result that it saved north of 1% (exact
figure eludes me). So worth having on a 'city car'.

Friend of mine's is a driving instructor his car has this auto engine
off feature he reckons it's a god-send for his type of driving (lots of
stationery to explain things) and reckons it can save him up to 10% on
his fuel bills

But the battery may need changing more often. It's the
number of start cycles that seems to be important.

In article ,
Andrew wrote:
Friend of mine's is a driving instructor his car has this auto engine
off feature he reckons it's a god-send for his type of driving (lots of
stationery to explain things) and reckons it can save him up to 10% on
his fuel bills

But the battery may need changing more often. It's the
number of start cycles that seems to be important.

Do remember the load on both the battery and starter motor is much lower
on a hot restart than from cold. A cold start can take approx 5 times the
current.

--
*A bicycle can't stand alone because it's two tyred.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 07 Jan 2017 12:21:55 +0000, Andrew wrote:

On 06/01/2017 00:44, soup wrote:
On 05/01/2017 21:07, Jeff Layman wrote:

I wonder. I assume you are referring to cutting the engine when
stopping at lights, etc. Sure, it must save fuel, but how much?

Tiff Needel on Fifth gear did a test in town driving (lots of lights
congestion etc) and got the result that it saved north of 1% (exact
figure eludes me). So worth having on a 'city car'.

Friend of mine's is a driving instructor his car has this auto engine
off feature he reckons it's a god-send for his type of driving (lots of
stationery to explain things) and reckons it can save him up to 10% on
his fuel bills

But the battery may need changing more often. It's the number of start
cycles that seems to be important.

This has come up before, and it has been stated that shorter battery life
has not been observed.

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On 05/01/2017 21:07, Jeff Layman wrote:

I wonder. I assume you are referring to cutting the engine when stopping
at lights, etc. Sure, it must save fuel, but how much? Well, with a 2l
engine it's around 600ml/hour. But how many cars idle for an hour
during a journey? Also, after a while engine cut-out won't work (at
least, it doesn't in my Jazz because it's designed that way). In
practice, it probably saves considerably less than a gallon a month.


And that at the expense of a beefed up starter mechanism (or early
starter failure) and a much more expensive battery that has to be
"integrated" with the EMC. I have always wondered what the net lifetime
saving of this pseudo green system actually is.


--
Chris B (News)

On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 10:01:56 +0000, Chris B wrote:

On 05/01/2017 21:07, Jeff Layman wrote:

I wonder. I assume you are referring to cutting the engine when
stopping at lights, etc. Sure, it must save fuel, but how much? Well,
with a 2l engine it's around 600ml/hour. But how many cars idle for an
hour during a journey? Also, after a while engine cut-out won't work
(at least, it doesn't in my Jazz because it's designed that way). In
practice, it probably saves considerably less than a gallon a month.


And that at the expense of a beefed up starter mechanism (or early
starter failure) and a much more expensive battery that has to be
"integrated" with the EMC. I have always wondered what the net lifetime
saving of this pseudo green system actually is.

Well, it takes the pollution away from the road, I guess. Round here, I
turn it off if in heavy, inching-forward traffic.

BUT...I travel where there are quite a few level crossings (grade
crossings?). People rarely stop the engine at these, even for a 5 minute
wait. The amount of noise and pollution round that queue must be
considerable, and the saving a little more too.



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My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 06/01/2017 11:21, Huge wrote:

But I always thought these systems were to reduce urban emissions, rather
that save fuel.



They are there to put a car into a lower tax band.

On 06/01/17 11:29, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Bob Eager
wrote:

BUT...I travel where there are quite a few level crossings.

Yes. The Canterbury West to Ashford line is a good example. Several of
these are still operated by a man, too.


And near Canterbury on the London to Ramsgate line, it's even a bit DIY.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRQt_PMhBXY

--
Adrian C

On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 11:29:10 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:

In article , Bob Eager
wrote:

BUT...I travel where there are quite a few level crossings.

Yes. The Canterbury West to Ashford line is a good example. Several of
these are still operated by a man, too.

That is actually the one I encounter most. Either the level crossing
nearest to Canterbury East (but easterly, away from Ashford), or the one
east of that.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

In article ,
Chris B wrote:
On 05/01/2017 21:07, Jeff Layman wrote:

I wonder. I assume you are referring to cutting the engine when stopping
at lights, etc. Sure, it must save fuel, but how much? Well, with a 2l
engine it's around 600ml/hour. But how many cars idle for an hour
during a journey? Also, after a while engine cut-out won't work (at
least, it doesn't in my Jazz because it's designed that way). In
practice, it probably saves considerably less than a gallon a month.


And that at the expense of a beefed up starter mechanism (or early
starter failure) and a much more expensive battery that has to be
"integrated" with the EMC. I have always wondered what the net lifetime
saving of this pseudo green system actually is.

My car's manual tells me the energy (from braking) is stored in a super
capacitor.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England