I and some of my friends, being vulnerable people are installing wireless
door intercoms on our houses.
The problem with these devices is, that, unlike their wired brethren, you
cannot instigate a conversation with the person at your door unless they
actually press the button on the device. Its a bloody big button, but
seemingly we have an issue of the people who do not like door bells, who
persist on using rattling of letter boxes, banging on windows or using door
knockers etc when, as we see it its bleedin obvious there is a bell push.
Who are these increasingly frequent visitors, not the Police though they do
seem to be one of the groups who do this, no its apparently sane
individuals.
So two answers. 1. try to find a door intercom that can instigate comms
from inside that is not wired. Seemingly and perversely, not possible as
nobody does one unless you want to power the outside station from a wall
wart.
The reason is that the batteries would go down if it had to listen for the
inside unit polling it.
The other option is to somehow convince callers to use the bell push and
only the bell push.
So if anyone has any bright ideas that do not involve 50,000 v on the
outside of the front door to 'discourage' the errant behaviour will be
accepted. Not sure if perhaps a big day glow arrow pointing to the bell
would work as its visible enough already.

Brian


--
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Blind user, so no pictures please!

On Thursday, 29 December 2016 19:24:46 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:
The problem with these devices is, that, unlike their wired brethren, you
cannot instigate a conversation with the person at your door unless they
actually press the button on the device.

I have a wired system with the same problem. It's a 'feature' designed to stop other flats listening to my visitors and vice versa.


So if anyone has any bright ideas that do not involve 50,000 v on the
outside of the front door to 'discourage' the errant behaviour will be
accepted.

A PIR detector wired to activate the call button. You can get solar powered PIR led lights so the PIR circuit must be low enough power to be run off a solar panel and battery.

Infra-red break beam detector, although that would need a power source.

A burglar alarm pressure pad under the doormat wired to the call button, although they might not be weather proof.

You can get door knockers with an electric bell push underneath the knocker part, so knocking would activate the call button. Likewise a microswitch on the letterbox flap - although that will be set off with every takeaway menu delivered.

Owain

On Thu, 29 Dec 2016 19:24:41 +0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

I and some of my friends, being vulnerable people are installing
wireless door intercoms on our houses.
The problem with these devices is, that, unlike their wired brethren,
you
cannot instigate a conversation with the person at your door unless they
actually press the button on the device. Its a bloody big button, but
seemingly we have an issue of the people who do not like door bells,
who persist on using rattling of letter boxes, banging on windows or
using door knockers etc when, as we see it its bleedin obvious there is
a bell push.
Who are these increasingly frequent visitors, not the Police though
they do
seem to be one of the groups who do this, no its apparently sane
individuals.
So two answers. 1. try to find a door intercom that can instigate
comms
from inside that is not wired. Seemingly and perversely, not possible as
nobody does one unless you want to power the outside station from a wall
wart.
The reason is that the batteries would go down if it had to listen for
the
inside unit polling it.
The other option is to somehow convince callers to use the bell push and
only the bell push.
So if anyone has any bright ideas that do not involve 50,000 v on the
outside of the front door to 'discourage' the errant behaviour will be
accepted. Not sure if perhaps a big day glow arrow pointing to the bell
would work as its visible enough already.

Brian

Perhaps a separate wired or wireless speaker in the front door area, which
you can use to say "STOP BANGING ON THE DOOR AND PRESS THE BLOODY
BUTTON!!!!!!!"

Gives you another option apart from an intercom but no idea if these
things are available.

Cheers


Dave R


--
Dell XPS laptop running W8.1

On Thu, 29 Dec 2016 20:23:27 +0000, David wrote:

On Thu, 29 Dec 2016 19:24:41 +0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

I and some of my friends, being vulnerable people are installing
wireless door intercoms on our houses.
The problem with these devices is, that, unlike their wired brethren,
you
cannot instigate a conversation with the person at your door unless
they actually press the button on the device. Its a bloody big button,
but seemingly we have an issue of the people who do not like door
bells, who persist on using rattling of letter boxes, banging on
windows or using door knockers etc when, as we see it its bleedin
obvious there is a bell push.
Who are these increasingly frequent visitors, not the Police though
they do
seem to be one of the groups who do this, no its apparently sane
individuals.
So two answers. 1. try to find a door intercom that can instigate
comms
from inside that is not wired. Seemingly and perversely, not possible
as nobody does one unless you want to power the outside station from a
wall wart.
The reason is that the batteries would go down if it had to listen for
the
inside unit polling it.
The other option is to somehow convince callers to use the bell push
and only the bell push.
So if anyone has any bright ideas that do not involve 50,000 v on the
outside of the front door to 'discourage' the errant behaviour will be
accepted. Not sure if perhaps a big day glow arrow pointing to the bell
would work as its visible enough already.

Brian

Perhaps a separate wired or wireless speaker in the front door area,
which you can use to say "STOP BANGING ON THE DOOR AND PRESS THE BLOODY
BUTTON!!!!!!!"

Gives you another option apart from an intercom but no idea if these
things are available.

I keep thinking about a vibration sensor to do that. We can't hear a
knock on the door everywhere in the house. We can hear the 'bell' as it
rings all the phones.

One would have to deactivate it when the door is open, etc...


--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 29/12/2016 19:24, Brian Gaff wrote:
I and some of my friends, being vulnerable people are installing wireless
door intercoms on our houses.
The problem with these devices is, that, unlike their wired brethren, you
cannot instigate a conversation with the person at your door unless they
actually press the button on the device. Its a bloody big button, but
seemingly we have an issue of the people who do not like door bells, who
persist on using rattling of letter boxes, banging on windows or using door
knockers etc when, as we see it its bleedin obvious there is a bell push.
Who are these increasingly frequent visitors, not the Police though they do
seem to be one of the groups who do this, no its apparently sane
individuals.
So two answers. 1. try to find a door intercom that can instigate comms
from inside that is not wired. Seemingly and perversely, not possible as
nobody does one unless you want to power the outside station from a wall
wart.
The reason is that the batteries would go down if it had to listen for the
inside unit polling it.
The other option is to somehow convince callers to use the bell push and
only the bell push.
So if anyone has any bright ideas that do not involve 50,000 v on the
outside of the front door to 'discourage' the errant behaviour will be
accepted. Not sure if perhaps a big day glow arrow pointing to the bell
would work as its visible enough already.


I suspect that somewhere within the mire of the internet of things there
may be an answer.

I'm trying out an Amazon Echo and Samsung 'smartthings'. All I can say
is that the various 'things I've got do work very effectively, but I'm
not exactly a power user. Things like switching lights on/off,
controlling the heating, detecting doors open, movement. The Echo
responds accurately to my voice commands.

Within the smartthing app itself, and by extension the various forums,
many hundreds of permutations are set out/discussed. From a quick look
there are push/pull actions that can be triggered by proximity - not
sure which might work best for you.


--
Cheers, Rob

Yes, I've not looked at the inside of the bell /speaker box as yet. I'm also
not convinced of the waterproof of these devices either.

However since there is in effect no porch the mat idea is a no go one. PIR,
well that would as you suggest go off every time somebody moved in the
allotted area, including me.
I guess if its got to be some kind of external device then it will have to
have mains power. I had hoped that since the outside device has C cells in
it a low power receiver might be able to be run continuously.
It surely should only take a few milliamps when its just monitoring.
As I say, my wired one which is on its last legs now can be operated inside
without the bell push being pushed outside as its a very simple amp that one
just changes the speaker and mic over on. It needs the user inside to do
the direction switching whereas the wireless one works a bit like a speaker
phone in that it goes both ways once the button is pushed but the level is
adjusted so the person speaking can be heard without any problem which ever
way around it is going. Of course if both people talk together it can be
awkward.
I just feel that its over designed in this respect but the obvious feature
is not that the.
Brian

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Blind user, so no pictures please!
wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 29 December 2016 19:24:46 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:
The problem with these devices is, that, unlike their wired brethren,
you
cannot instigate a conversation with the person at your door unless they
actually press the button on the device.

I have a wired system with the same problem. It's a 'feature' designed to
stop other flats listening to my visitors and vice versa.


So if anyone has any bright ideas that do not involve 50,000 v on the
outside of the front door to 'discourage' the errant behaviour will be
accepted.

A PIR detector wired to activate the call button. You can get solar
powered PIR led lights so the PIR circuit must be low enough power to be
run off a solar panel and battery.

Infra-red break beam detector, although that would need a power source.

A burglar alarm pressure pad under the doormat wired to the call button,
although they might not be weather proof.

You can get door knockers with an electric bell push underneath the
knocker part, so knocking would activate the call button. Likewise a
microswitch on the letterbox flap - although that will be set off with
every takeaway menu delivered.

Owain

Like I say, I have a wired device already and these do still exist and are
cheap. The issue is that at least in my case I might not even be inside the
house so would miss any delivery idiot who feels the letterbox rattling is
sufficient.
Also of course if I'd wanted one of these devices I'd simply by a new one
to replace the old one. The idiot brigade broke the old ones bell push early
in its life and I had to wire one normal push in instead.
Its obvious to me that the general public can be illogical and very stupid
at times, and designers of any product to be used by them needs to both
design them for use by an idiot and a person who thinks pushing it harder
will get a response faster.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
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Blind user, so no pictures please!
"David" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 Dec 2016 19:24:41 +0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

I and some of my friends, being vulnerable people are installing
wireless door intercoms on our houses.
The problem with these devices is, that, unlike their wired brethren,
you
cannot instigate a conversation with the person at your door unless they
actually press the button on the device. Its a bloody big button, but
seemingly we have an issue of the people who do not like door bells,
who persist on using rattling of letter boxes, banging on windows or
using door knockers etc when, as we see it its bleedin obvious there is
a bell push.
Who are these increasingly frequent visitors, not the Police though
they do
seem to be one of the groups who do this, no its apparently sane
individuals.
So two answers. 1. try to find a door intercom that can instigate
comms
from inside that is not wired. Seemingly and perversely, not possible as
nobody does one unless you want to power the outside station from a wall
wart.
The reason is that the batteries would go down if it had to listen for
the
inside unit polling it.
The other option is to somehow convince callers to use the bell push and
only the bell push.
So if anyone has any bright ideas that do not involve 50,000 v on the
outside of the front door to 'discourage' the errant behaviour will be
accepted. Not sure if perhaps a big day glow arrow pointing to the bell
would work as its visible enough already.

Brian

Perhaps a separate wired or wireless speaker in the front door area, which
you can use to say "STOP BANGING ON THE DOOR AND PRESS THE BLOODY
BUTTON!!!!!!!"

Gives you another option apart from an intercom but no idea if these
things are available.

Cheers


Dave R


--
Dell XPS laptop running W8.1

Like I say this Response electronics one I think will be fine to replace
thewired one i have had for years, see earlier posts on this, however I
suspect that I'm going to still miss deliveries and some callers. My
neighbour seems to have a thing about door bells. her excuse is that she
can't be doing with them, she has not got one just a knocker so she never
thinks to look for a bell, intercom at all.



I'm also convinced that some delivery drivers have some reason for never
actually doing more than shoving cards through letter boxes, so maybe there
is some mileage in a letter box warning device at least.

When do they start delivering by drone?
Brian

--
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Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 Dec 2016 20:23:27 +0000, David wrote:

On Thu, 29 Dec 2016 19:24:41 +0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

I and some of my friends, being vulnerable people are installing
wireless door intercoms on our houses.
The problem with these devices is, that, unlike their wired brethren,
you
cannot instigate a conversation with the person at your door unless
they actually press the button on the device. Its a bloody big button,
but seemingly we have an issue of the people who do not like door
bells, who persist on using rattling of letter boxes, banging on
windows or using door knockers etc when, as we see it its bleedin
obvious there is a bell push.
Who are these increasingly frequent visitors, not the Police though
they do
seem to be one of the groups who do this, no its apparently sane
individuals.
So two answers. 1. try to find a door intercom that can instigate
comms
from inside that is not wired. Seemingly and perversely, not possible
as nobody does one unless you want to power the outside station from a
wall wart.
The reason is that the batteries would go down if it had to listen for
the
inside unit polling it.
The other option is to somehow convince callers to use the bell push
and only the bell push.
So if anyone has any bright ideas that do not involve 50,000 v on the
outside of the front door to 'discourage' the errant behaviour will be
accepted. Not sure if perhaps a big day glow arrow pointing to the bell
would work as its visible enough already.

Brian

Perhaps a separate wired or wireless speaker in the front door area,
which you can use to say "STOP BANGING ON THE DOOR AND PRESS THE BLOODY
BUTTON!!!!!!!"

Gives you another option apart from an intercom but no idea if these
things are available.

I keep thinking about a vibration sensor to do that. We can't hear a
knock on the door everywhere in the house. We can hear the 'bell' as it
rings all the phones.

One would have to deactivate it when the door is open, etc...


--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

Yes a lot of blind people are using the dot, as they work weel and over time
it is no doubt going to be possible to operate a device outside this way.
Seems to be rather overkill though. Its the human behaviour we need to alter
I think, trying to cater for every idiot out there is a thankless task. Who
was it who said as soon as you make something idiot proof, somebody designs
a better idiot?
Evolution again.



Brian

--
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Blind user, so no pictures please!
"RJH" wrote in message
news
On 29/12/2016 19:24, Brian Gaff wrote:
I and some of my friends, being vulnerable people are installing wireless
door intercoms on our houses.
The problem with these devices is, that, unlike their wired brethren,
you
cannot instigate a conversation with the person at your door unless they
actually press the button on the device. Its a bloody big button, but
seemingly we have an issue of the people who do not like door bells,
who
persist on using rattling of letter boxes, banging on windows or using
door
knockers etc when, as we see it its bleedin obvious there is a bell push.
Who are these increasingly frequent visitors, not the Police though they
do
seem to be one of the groups who do this, no its apparently sane
individuals.
So two answers. 1. try to find a door intercom that can instigate comms
from inside that is not wired. Seemingly and perversely, not possible as
nobody does one unless you want to power the outside station from a wall
wart.
The reason is that the batteries would go down if it had to listen for
the
inside unit polling it.
The other option is to somehow convince callers to use the bell push and
only the bell push.
So if anyone has any bright ideas that do not involve 50,000 v on the
outside of the front door to 'discourage' the errant behaviour will be
accepted. Not sure if perhaps a big day glow arrow pointing to the bell
would work as its visible enough already.


I suspect that somewhere within the mire of the internet of things there
may be an answer.

I'm trying out an Amazon Echo and Samsung 'smartthings'. All I can say is
that the various 'things I've got do work very effectively, but I'm not
exactly a power user. Things like switching lights on/off, controlling the
heating, detecting doors open, movement. The Echo responds accurately to
my voice commands.

Within the smartthing app itself, and by extension the various forums,
many hundreds of permutations are set out/discussed. From a quick look
there are push/pull actions that can be triggered by proximity - not sure
which might work best for you.


--
Cheers, Rob

Couldn't agree more!

I think all of this automation and remote doings leads down a very rocky
road.

Apart from altering behaviour in some odd ways, the data farming takes
everything to a new level. There's something very 'loss lead' about it
all, reminding me of when Google was no more than a usefully benign
search tool.

I was talking with an environmental scientist over xmas - he's worked
for a medium sized consultancy for some years. It's got to the point, he
says, where the client data they've accumulated is worth more than the
company.

--
Cheers, Rob


On 30/12/2016 09:27, Brian Gaff wrote:
Yes a lot of blind people are using the dot, as they work weel and over time
it is no doubt going to be possible to operate a device outside this way.
Seems to be rather overkill though. Its the human behaviour we need to alter
I think, trying to cater for every idiot out there is a thankless task. Who
was it who said as soon as you make something idiot proof, somebody designs
a better idiot?
Evolution again.



Brian

On 29/12/2016 19:24, Brian Gaff wrote:
I and some of my friends, being vulnerable people are installing wireless
door intercoms on our houses.

That's the problem. It's wireless and it's ****.




--
Adam

Erm what has that to do with the problem? Are you saying that wirelessness
induces stupidity into people?
Brian

--
----- -
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Blind user, so no pictures please!
"ARW" wrote in message
...
On 29/12/2016 19:24, Brian Gaff wrote:
I and some of my friends, being vulnerable people are installing wireless
door intercoms on our houses.

That's the problem. It's wireless and it's ****.




--
Adam

On 31/12/2016 09:14, Brian Gaff wrote:
Erm what has that to do with the problem? Are you saying that wirelessness
induces stupidity into people?
Brian


No. I am saying that wireless systems are ****.

--
Adam

On Saturday, 31 December 2016 09:26:26 UTC, ARW wrote:
No. I am saying that wireless systems are ****.

You're just envious because no-one's paid you to fit a wireless doorbell!

Owain

On 31/12/2016 09:28, wrote:
On Saturday, 31 December 2016 09:26:26 UTC, ARW wrote:
No. I am saying that wireless systems are ****.

You're just envious because no-one's paid you to fit a wireless doorbell!

Owain

My neighbour has a wireless doorbell.

It goes off whenever someone uses their car remote control so
they have just taken the battery out of the pushbutton.

So now they have the most useless of all doorbells, one that
suggests that it works, but actually doesn't. I suspect this
is why so many callers just bang on the door instead.

At least my wired friedlander runs off a transformer in the CU
and it illuminates an led in the pushbutton, so callers can
see that here is an active doorbell if they come in the dark.

On Saturday, 31 December 2016 15:48:16 UTC, Andrew wrote:
On 31/12/2016 09:28, wrote:
On Saturday, 31 December 2016 09:26:26 UTC, ARW wrote:
No. I am saying that wireless systems are ****.

You're just envious because no-one's paid you to fit a wireless doorbell!

Owain

My neighbour has a wireless doorbell.

It goes off whenever someone uses their car remote control so
they have just taken the battery out of the pushbutton.

So now they have the most useless of all doorbells, one that
suggests that it works, but actually doesn't. I suspect this
is why so many callers just bang on the door instead.

At least my wired friedlander runs off a transformer in the CU
and it illuminates an led in the pushbutton, so callers can
see that here is an active doorbell if they come in the dark.

Years ago I pressed a bell button & silence, nothing. So I knocked. The occupant got a little florid with his words at that point. Clearly he hadn't figured out the value of letting people know it's working, and after a dose of verbal abuse no-one had bothered explaining it to him. I didn't either.


NT

No these ones are coded so they do not go off when other things happen. this
is an intercom and I understand it runs the same protocols and frequencies
as the walk about phones in your house do, so I guess the worst that can
happen is a bit of range reducing if others use equipment on the same
channels. Unfortunately the very cheap wireless doorbells only have about
half a dozen codes and share them so it appears with some of the older car
key fob devices.
This is why I did some research first. If one is going to rubbish everything
that works by radio, we will have to all start living in caves next and
making flint arrows etc, according to that logic. No get a newer bell or
intercom that runs using unique encoding.
Brian

--
----- -
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Blind user, so no pictures please!
wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 31 December 2016 15:48:16 UTC, Andrew wrote:
On 31/12/2016 09:28, wrote:
On Saturday, 31 December 2016 09:26:26 UTC, ARW wrote:
No. I am saying that wireless systems are ****.

You're just envious because no-one's paid you to fit a wireless
doorbell!

Owain

My neighbour has a wireless doorbell.

It goes off whenever someone uses their car remote control so
they have just taken the battery out of the pushbutton.

So now they have the most useless of all doorbells, one that
suggests that it works, but actually doesn't. I suspect this
is why so many callers just bang on the door instead.

At least my wired friedlander runs off a transformer in the CU
and it illuminates an led in the pushbutton, so callers can
see that here is an active doorbell if they come in the dark.

Years ago I pressed a bell button & silence, nothing. So I knocked. The
occupant got a little florid with his words at that point. Clearly he hadn't
figured out the value of letting people know it's working, and after a dose
of verbal abuse no-one had bothered explaining it to him. I didn't either.


NT

"David" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 Dec 2016 19:24:41 +0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

I and some of my friends, being vulnerable people are installing
wireless door intercoms on our houses.
The problem with these devices is, that, unlike their wired brethren,
you
cannot instigate a conversation with the person at your door unless they
actually press the button on the device. Its a bloody big button, but
seemingly we have an issue of the people who do not like door bells,
who persist on using rattling of letter boxes, banging on windows or
using door knockers etc when, as we see it its bleedin obvious there is
a bell push.
Who are these increasingly frequent visitors, not the Police though
they do
seem to be one of the groups who do this, no its apparently sane
individuals.
So two answers. 1. try to find a door intercom that can instigate
comms
from inside that is not wired. Seemingly and perversely, not possible as
nobody does one unless you want to power the outside station from a wall
wart.
The reason is that the batteries would go down if it had to listen for
the
inside unit polling it.
The other option is to somehow convince callers to use the bell push and
only the bell push.
So if anyone has any bright ideas that do not involve 50,000 v on the
outside of the front door to 'discourage' the errant behaviour will be
accepted. Not sure if perhaps a big day glow arrow pointing to the bell
would work as its visible enough already.

Brian

Perhaps a separate wired or wireless speaker in the front door area, which
you can use to say "STOP BANGING ON THE DOOR AND PRESS THE BLOODY
BUTTON!!!!!!!"

Makes more sense to automate that with
a shock sensor on the door and window.

Gives you another option apart from an intercom
but no idea if these things are available.

Trivial to DIY

Brian Gaff wrote

Yes a lot of blind people are using the dot, as they work weel and over
time it is no doubt going to be possible to operate a device outside this
way.

Seems to be rather overkill though. Its the human behaviour we need to
alter I think, trying to cater for every idiot out there is a thankless
task.

Trying to change human behaviour is an even more thankless
task, particularly with delivery apes who have a real incentive
to card you instead of pressing the bell or banging on the
door and waiting to see if you will answer the door.

Who was it who said as soon as you make something idiot proof, somebody
designs a better idiot?

That’s bull**** with this situation.

When you live alone, does it really matter if a PIR or
light beam does ring the bell when you come home ?

And even when you don’t live alone, its really no big
deal if it rings when you come home and quickly changes
to a different chime when you open the door immediately.

And a fancy system can work out its you from your
phone bluetooth and not ring at all when its you too
and can automatically open the door for you too.

Evolution again.


"RJH" wrote in message
news
On 29/12/2016 19:24, Brian Gaff wrote:
I and some of my friends, being vulnerable people are installing
wireless
door intercoms on our houses.
The problem with these devices is, that, unlike their wired brethren,
you
cannot instigate a conversation with the person at your door unless they
actually press the button on the device. Its a bloody big button, but
seemingly we have an issue of the people who do not like door bells,
who
persist on using rattling of letter boxes, banging on windows or using
door
knockers etc when, as we see it its bleedin obvious there is a bell
push.
Who are these increasingly frequent visitors, not the Police though
they do
seem to be one of the groups who do this, no its apparently sane
individuals.
So two answers. 1. try to find a door intercom that can instigate
comms
from inside that is not wired. Seemingly and perversely, not possible as
nobody does one unless you want to power the outside station from a wall
wart.
The reason is that the batteries would go down if it had to listen for
the
inside unit polling it.
The other option is to somehow convince callers to use the bell push and
only the bell push.
So if anyone has any bright ideas that do not involve 50,000 v on the
outside of the front door to 'discourage' the errant behaviour will be
accepted. Not sure if perhaps a big day glow arrow pointing to the bell
would work as its visible enough already.


I suspect that somewhere within the mire of the internet of things there
may be an answer.

I'm trying out an Amazon Echo and Samsung 'smartthings'. All I can say is
that the various 'things I've got do work very effectively, but I'm not
exactly a power user. Things like switching lights on/off, controlling
the heating, detecting doors open, movement. The Echo responds accurately
to my voice commands.

Within the smartthing app itself, and by extension the various forums,
many hundreds of permutations are set out/discussed. From a quick look
there are push/pull actions that can be triggered by proximity - not sure
which might work best for you.


--
Cheers, Rob

RJH wrote

Couldn't agree more!

I think all of this automation and remote doings leads down a very rocky
road.

I don’t, bet it ends up vastly better than we had before.

Apart from altering behaviour in some odd ways,

Sure, but any technology does that. The technology is useful anyway.

the data farming takes everything to a new level.

You don’t have to have your data farmed if you don’t want to.

There's something very 'loss lead' about it all,

That’s paranoia IMO.

reminding me of when Google was no more than a usefully benign search
tool.

But plenty of technology can't be exploited like that.

And even with the stuff that can, like electronic payment
methods that are much more convenient than cash, I couldn’t
care less if some multinational knows what I choose to eat.

I was talking with an environmental scientist over xmas - he's worked for
a medium sized consultancy for some years. It's got to the point, he says,
where the client data they've accumulated is worth more than the company.

That is hardly ever true. I couldn’t care less that the telcos
I use know who has called me and who I have called.

Brian Gaff wrote

Yes a lot of blind people are using the dot, as they work weel and over
time
it is no doubt going to be possible to operate a device outside this
way.
Seems to be rather overkill though. Its the human behaviour we need to
alter
I think, trying to cater for every idiot out there is a thankless task.
Who
was it who said as soon as you make something idiot proof, somebody
designs
a better idiot?
Evolution again.



Brian

Brian Gaff wrote:
seemingly we have an issue of the people who do not like door bells, who
persist on using rattling of letter boxes, banging on windows

The correct response is to shout STOP RATTLING MY BLOODY LETTERBOX!!!! and
chuck a bucket of water over them.

On 31/12/2016 17:36, Brian Gaff wrote:

This is why I did some research first. If one is going to rubbish everything
that works by radio, we will have to all start living in caves next and
making flint arrows etc, according to that logic. No get a newer bell or
intercom that runs using unique encoding.
Brian


Your logic is flawed.



--
Adam

In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:
I'm also convinced that some delivery drivers have some reason for never
actually doing more than shoving cards through letter boxes, so maybe there
is some mileage in a letter box warning device at least.

Much quicker to pre-write the cards then just pop them through the
letterbox. Rather than wait for the door to be answered and a signature
obtained. But firms which do a free second delivery don't do this. Only
those where you have to collect the goods yourself if they can't deliver.

--
*What do you call a dinosaur with an extensive vocabulary? A thesaurus.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
wrote:
On Saturday, 31 December 2016 09:26:26 UTC, ARW wrote:
No. I am saying that wireless systems are ****.

You're just envious because no-one's paid you to fit a wireless doorbell!

By nature no wireless system is going to be as reliable as a cabled one.
There is obviously a point in having a cordless drill. Wireless
microphone, etc if it has to be mobile.

But a door bell or entry system? Only reason to fit that is laziness. ;-)

--
*Constipated People Don't Give A Crap*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:
If one is going to rubbish everything
that works by radio, we will have to all start living in caves next and
making flint arrows etc, according to that logic.

Which would work better? A flint arrow or some form of ray gun with a dead
battery?


No get a newer bell or intercom that runs using unique encoding.

Fine if you don't mind paying a much higher price. These things are made
so they just about work for the majority. To design and make a foolproof
one is likely impossible and expensive to try.

--
*When cheese gets its picture taken, what does it say? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sunday, 1 January 2017 14:18:50 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
But a door bell or entry system? Only reason to fit that is laziness. ;-)

Brian may be using a system with a cordless handset he can carry about with him so he doesn't have to run to a box on the wall to respond to callers.

Owain

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
On Saturday, 31 December 2016 09:26:26 UTC, ARW wrote:
No. I am saying that wireless systems are ****.

You're just envious because no-one's paid you to fit a wireless doorbell!

By nature no wireless system is going to be as reliable as a cabled one.
There is obviously a point in having a cordless drill. Wireless
microphone, etc if it has to be mobile.

But a door bell or entry system? Only reason to fit that is laziness. ;-)

It depends on how far from the front door you want the ringer. Yes, I
could run cables to our respective studies and have an extension lead to
take a bell into the garden, but wireless is so much easier. My Friedland
set-up: 1 bell, 2 mains receivers and one battery receiver has worked well
for many years.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

wrote:


Brian may be using a system with a cordless handset he can carry
about with him so he doesn't have to run to a box on the wall to
respond to callers.

The indoor bit can be wireless if that suits, but the problems seem to
stem from the outdoor bit being wireless (no power for an attention
grabbing LED on the button, no power to allow it to listen for calls
from indoors, only talks when outdoor button has been pressed) ... in
short, wires work.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
wrote:
On Saturday, 31 December 2016 09:26:26 UTC, ARW wrote:
No. I am saying that wireless systems are ****.

You're just envious because no-one's paid you to fit a wireless doorbell!

By nature no wireless system is going to be as reliable as a cabled one.

But can be reliable enough when it allows lots of codes
and indicates when the battery needs replacing and is
much cheaper and easier to install.

There is obviously a point in having a cordless drill. Wireless
microphone, etc if it has to be mobile.

But a door bell or entry system? Only reason to fit that is laziness. ;-)

Much cheaper to add when there is no wiring for it.

No technical reason why it can't do the intercom feature
initiated by the householder and still have a viable battery life.

--
*Constipated People Don't Give A Crap*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:
If one is going to rubbish everything
that works by radio, we will have to all start living in caves next and
making flint arrows etc, according to that logic.

Which would work better? A flint arrow or some form of ray gun with a dead
battery?


No get a newer bell or intercom that runs using unique encoding.

Fine if you don't mind paying a much higher price.

Doesn’t have to have a much higher price anymore.

These things are made
so they just about work for the majority. To design and make a foolproof
one is likely impossible

Doesn’t have to be foolproof, just have a unique
coding and that is already available for car keys.

and expensive to try.

No reason why it has to be now that there are so
many with unique codes for cars and garage doors.

Andy Burns wrote
wrote

Brian may be using a system with a cordless handset
he can carry about with him so he doesn't have to
run to a box on the wall to respond to callers.

The indoor bit can be wireless if that suits, but the problems
seem to stem from the outdoor bit being wireless (no power
for an attention grabbing LED on the button,

No reason why solar powered garden light technology can't fix that.

no power to allow it to listen for calls from indoors,
only talks when outdoor button has been pressed) ...

And that would fix that too. No problem with a low
powered receiver looking for the signal from inside
to turn on the higher powered transmitter from inside.

in short, wires work.

But are expensive to install when there arent any wires
there already, particularly if you want it to look good.