It keeps dripping frequently. Redoing it up makes no difference. But why... do these things use O rings?


NT

On Monday, 12 December 2016 17:56:56 UTC, wrote:
It keeps dripping frequently. Redoing it up makes no difference. But why... do these things use O rings?


NT

Most of them use a standard tap washer.

harry wrote:
On Monday, 12 December 2016 17:56:56 UTC, wrote:
It keeps dripping frequently. Redoing it up makes no difference. But why... do these things use O rings?


NT

Most of them use a standard tap washer.

And according to type, Type A has an o ring around the gland so they
don't dribble when open. Type B has no o ring and does dribble when
draining down.
There is only a small difference in price so best to use the O ring type

Bob Minchin wrote:
harry wrote:
On Monday, 12 December 2016 17:56:56 UTC, wrote:
It keeps dripping frequently. Redoing it up makes no difference. But
why... do these things use O rings?


NT

Most of them use a standard tap washer.

And according to type, Type A has an o ring around the gland so they
don't dribble when open. Type B has no o ring and does dribble when
draining down.
There is only a small difference in price so best to use the O ring type

Or fit washing machine taps as I did.

On 12/12/2016 21:13, Capitol wrote:
Bob Minchin wrote:
harry wrote:
On Monday, 12 December 2016 17:56:56 UTC, wrote:
It keeps dripping frequently. Redoing it up makes no difference. But
why... do these things use O rings?


NT

Most of them use a standard tap washer.

And according to type, Type A has an o ring around the gland so they
don't dribble when open. Type B has no o ring and does dribble when
draining down.
There is only a small difference in price so best to use the O ring type

Or fit washing machine taps as I did.

I use service valves, and pipe the output through the wall into the
nearest drain or a suitable soak-away location. Saves messing about with
hoses being draped through the house.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Monday, 12 December 2016 19:05:27 UTC, Bob Minchin wrote:
harry wrote:
On Monday, 12 December 2016 17:56:56 UTC, tabby wrote:

It keeps dripping frequently. Redoing it up makes no difference. But why... do these things use O rings?

Most of them use a standard tap washer.

And according to type, Type A has an o ring around the gland so they
don't dribble when open. Type B has no o ring and does dribble when
draining down.
There is only a small difference in price so best to use the O ring type

thanks, will fit a new tap washer when I next get there. It's type B.


NT

wrote:

On Monday, 12 December 2016 19:05:27 UTC, Bob Minchin wrote:
harry wrote:
On Monday, 12 December 2016 17:56:56 UTC, tabby wrote:

It keeps dripping frequently. Redoing it up makes no difference. But
why... do these things use O rings?

Most of them use a standard tap washer.

And according to type, Type A has an o ring around the gland so they
don't dribble when open. Type B has no o ring and does dribble when
draining down.
There is only a small difference in price so best to use the O ring type

thanks, will fit a new tap washer when I next get there. It's type B.


NT

If it is like the old-fashioned ones I've seen it uses a washer of
actual dimension about half an inch diameter which I have never seen in
any kind of tap. You can use the 1/2" ball valve washers if you bore a
hole in them. The real problem is that it is impossible to get heat
resistant rubber washers in this size, and in a CH system they harden
and/or disintegrate, and so fail quite frequently. I agree with those
who suggest fitting a decent valve instead, but this may be impossible.
For instance there is one in my boiler which could not easily be
replaced without making a hole in the base or a panel.

BTW, the o-ring only stops it leaking round the spindle when the drain
valve is open. When it is closed it leaks through the outlet and an
o-ring has no effect on this. Leaking round the spindle can be
prevented by having zero or less (vs. atomosphere!) pressure in the
outlet hose, i.e. it goes smoothly downhill and is long enough to create
some suction.



--

Roger Hayter

On 12/12/2016 23:29, John Rumm wrote:
On 12/12/2016 21:13, Capitol wrote:
Bob Minchin wrote:
harry wrote:
On Monday, 12 December 2016 17:56:56 UTC, wrote:
It keeps dripping frequently. Redoing it up makes no difference. But
why... do these things use O rings?


NT

Most of them use a standard tap washer.

And according to type, Type A has an o ring around the gland so they
don't dribble when open. Type B has no o ring and does dribble when
draining down.
There is only a small difference in price so best to use the O ring type

Or fit washing machine taps as I did.

I use service valves, and pipe the output through the wall into the
nearest drain or a suitable soak-away location. Saves messing about with
hoses being draped through the house.


Sounds neat, but can you find a drain at the ch's lowest point?

And the thought of draining even a clean ch system into a soakaway
sounds a bit gross.

I used a 40L trugg emptied a couple of times - not too much bother if
you have underfloor access.

--
Cheers, Rob

On 13/12/2016 09:08, RJH wrote:
On 12/12/2016 23:29, John Rumm wrote:
On 12/12/2016 21:13, Capitol wrote:
Bob Minchin wrote:
harry wrote:
On Monday, 12 December 2016 17:56:56 UTC, wrote:
It keeps dripping frequently. Redoing it up makes no difference. But
why... do these things use O rings?


NT

Most of them use a standard tap washer.

And according to type, Type A has an o ring around the gland so they
don't dribble when open. Type B has no o ring and does dribble when
draining down.
There is only a small difference in price so best to use the O ring
type

Or fit washing machine taps as I did.

I use service valves, and pipe the output through the wall into the
nearest drain or a suitable soak-away location. Saves messing about with
hoses being draped through the house.


Sounds neat, but can you find a drain at the ch's lowest point?

Well if you can attach a drain valve to that point, you can attach a
pipe... so no different really.

And the thought of draining even a clean ch system into a soakaway
sounds a bit gross.

I used a 40L trugg emptied a couple of times - not too much bother if
you have underfloor access.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 13/12/2016 11:12, John Rumm wrote:
On 13/12/2016 09:08, RJH wrote:
On 12/12/2016 23:29, John Rumm wrote:
On 12/12/2016 21:13, Capitol wrote:
Bob Minchin wrote:
harry wrote:
On Monday, 12 December 2016 17:56:56 UTC, wrote:
It keeps dripping frequently. Redoing it up makes no difference. But
why... do these things use O rings?


NT

Most of them use a standard tap washer.

And according to type, Type A has an o ring around the gland so they
don't dribble when open. Type B has no o ring and does dribble when
draining down.
There is only a small difference in price so best to use the O ring
type

Or fit washing machine taps as I did.

I use service valves, and pipe the output through the wall into the
nearest drain or a suitable soak-away location. Saves messing about with
hoses being draped through the house.


Sounds neat, but can you find a drain at the ch's lowest point?

Well if you can attach a drain valve to that point, you can attach a
pipe... so no different really.


So pipe from valve to drain. And if the drain is above the valve, you
use a pump, or tap into the drain somehow?

I'm sure I'm missing something :-) Just that every house I've lived at
the lowest CH pipe is well below the point of any surface drain.
Obviously anything above the FF (flats etc) and you're all set.


And the thought of draining even a clean ch system into a soakaway
sounds a bit gross.


Doesn't it smell for quite a while after you've drained the system? And
kill foliage etc?


--
Cheers, Rob

On 15/12/2016 02:19, RJH wrote:
On 13/12/2016 11:12, John Rumm wrote:
On 13/12/2016 09:08, RJH wrote:
On 12/12/2016 23:29, John Rumm wrote:
On 12/12/2016 21:13, Capitol wrote:
Bob Minchin wrote:
harry wrote:
On Monday, 12 December 2016 17:56:56 UTC, wrote:
It keeps dripping frequently. Redoing it up makes no difference.
But
why... do these things use O rings?


NT

Most of them use a standard tap washer.

And according to type, Type A has an o ring around the gland so they
don't dribble when open. Type B has no o ring and does dribble when
draining down.
There is only a small difference in price so best to use the O ring
type

Or fit washing machine taps as I did.

I use service valves, and pipe the output through the wall into the
nearest drain or a suitable soak-away location. Saves messing about
with
hoses being draped through the house.


Sounds neat, but can you find a drain at the ch's lowest point?

Well if you can attach a drain valve to that point, you can attach a
pipe... so no different really.


So pipe from valve to drain. And if the drain is above the valve, you
use a pump, or tap into the drain somehow?

Each situation may be different. The last time I did it (solid floor
downstairs - so all pipes were above the floor level), the original
drain valve was on a horizontal pipe run to a downstairs rad in the hall
- probably a couple of inches above the skirting. There was a tee in the
pipe with a down facing stub, and a drain valve on the end. So I took
the valve off, and cut the stub back a bit and soldered on an elbow then
fed into a service valve that was now below and parallel to the pipe.
Drilled a hole through the wall above the drain gully outside, and piped
that through to the service valve. Outside just needed a down turn in
the pipe and 8" or so to direct the output at the drain. So to drain,
just turn on the service valve with a screwdriver inside, and water went
straight to the drain outside.

In this house they had already done something similar with a pipe below
floor level taken through the outside wall, and terminating at a normal
drain valve sticking out of the wall just below DPC level (which in this
place is still a couple of feet above outside ground level). That's over
a lawn, but obviously one can hose it to a another place outside if you
want.

At a friends place he has all the downstairs CH piping chased into the
solid floor. The service valves are again positioned outside, but this
time only 3 inches above ground level by a flower bed. Not quite as
easy, but still workable.

I'm sure I'm missing something :-) Just that every house I've lived at
the lowest CH pipe is well below the point of any surface drain.
Obviously anything above the FF (flats etc) and you're all set.

Even if so, then situation using a hose would be no better. The hose
would still need to rise to reach a drain in that case.

Now obviously you can still drain the bulk of the system even if the
drain level is higher than the lowest parts. If you really need to
completely drain the lowest part, and its well below drain level, then
you would probably need to drain to a condensate sump/pump style collector.

And the thought of draining even a clean ch system into a soakaway
sounds a bit gross.


Doesn't it smell for quite a while after you've drained the system? And
kill foliage etc?

Can't say I noticed - if the system is relatively clean with inhibitor,
you only get a small amount of sludge etc and lots of water to disperse
it. Also a drain over a flower bed etc only need drain into it for the
last little bit - you can run your hose outside for the bulk of the
drain down, and only the last (by then well flushed) few litres would
need to be dropped locally.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

wrote:
It keeps dripping frequently. Redoing it up makes no difference. But why... do these things use O rings?


NT


Last time I had to open one, I had the same problem, and it was leaking
like mad as I was trying to drain it. It turns out it had been
overtightened in the past, the washer had got crushed and turned almost
to plastic. When I wound it all the way out, it just fell to bits.

On Thursday, 15 December 2016 10:09:09 UTC, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
tabbypurr wrote:
It keeps dripping frequently. Redoing it up makes no difference. But why... do these things use O rings?

Last time I had to open one, I had the same problem, and it was leaking
like mad as I was trying to drain it. It turns out it had been
overtightened in the past, the washer had got crushed and turned almost
to plastic. When I wound it all the way out, it just fell to bits.

that's what happened with this one too. Washer like a squashed pancake.


NT

wrote:

On Thursday, 15 December 2016 10:09:09 UTC, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
tabbypurr wrote:
It keeps dripping frequently. Redoing it up makes no difference. But
why... do these things use O rings?

Last time I had to open one, I had the same problem, and it was leaking
like mad as I was trying to drain it. It turns out it had been
overtightened in the past, the washer had got crushed and turned almost
to plastic. When I wound it all the way out, it just fell to bits.

that's what happened with this one too. Washer like a squashed pancake.


NT

IMHO this happens because of loss of elasticity due to heat rather than
careless misuse. It becomes harder to stop leaks until it finally
disintegrates. There must be a (somewhat small) opportunity for someone
to make some washers out of heat resistant rubber, such as is used for
hot taps. Or should be.




--

Roger Hayter

On Friday, 16 December 2016 19:30:13 UTC, Roger Hayter wrote:
tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 15 December 2016 10:09:09 UTC, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
tabbypurr wrote:

It keeps dripping frequently. Redoing it up makes no difference. But
why... do these things use O rings?

Last time I had to open one, I had the same problem, and it was leaking
like mad as I was trying to drain it. It turns out it had been
overtightened in the past, the washer had got crushed and turned almost
to plastic. When I wound it all the way out, it just fell to bits.

that's what happened with this one too. Washer like a squashed pancake.

IMHO this happens because of loss of elasticity due to heat rather than
careless misuse. It becomes harder to stop leaks until it finally
disintegrates. There must be a (somewhat small) opportunity for someone
to make some washers out of heat resistant rubber, such as is used for
hot taps. Or should be.

I used a tapwasher. Stick it on, trim it all round with scissors, job done.


NT

On 15/12/2016 10:01, John Rumm wrote:
On 15/12/2016 02:19, RJH wrote:
On 13/12/2016 11:12, John Rumm wrote:
On 13/12/2016 09:08, RJH wrote:
On 12/12/2016 23:29, John Rumm wrote:
On 12/12/2016 21:13, Capitol wrote:
Bob Minchin wrote:
harry wrote:
On Monday, 12 December 2016 17:56:56 UTC, wrote:
It keeps dripping frequently. Redoing it up makes no difference.
But
why... do these things use O rings?


NT

Most of them use a standard tap washer.

And according to type, Type A has an o ring around the gland so they
don't dribble when open. Type B has no o ring and does dribble when
draining down.
There is only a small difference in price so best to use the O ring
type

Or fit washing machine taps as I did.

I use service valves, and pipe the output through the wall into the
nearest drain or a suitable soak-away location. Saves messing about
with
hoses being draped through the house.


Sounds neat, but can you find a drain at the ch's lowest point?

Well if you can attach a drain valve to that point, you can attach a
pipe... so no different really.


So pipe from valve to drain. And if the drain is above the valve, you
use a pump, or tap into the drain somehow?

Each situation may be different. The last time I did it (solid floor
downstairs - so all pipes were above the floor level), the original
drain valve was on a horizontal pipe run to a downstairs rad in the hall
- probably a couple of inches above the skirting. There was a tee in the
pipe with a down facing stub, and a drain valve on the end. So I took
the valve off, and cut the stub back a bit and soldered on an elbow then
fed into a service valve that was now below and parallel to the pipe.
Drilled a hole through the wall above the drain gully outside, and piped
that through to the service valve. Outside just needed a down turn in
the pipe and 8" or so to direct the output at the drain. So to drain,
just turn on the service valve with a screwdriver inside, and water went
straight to the drain outside.

In this house they had already done something similar with a pipe below
floor level taken through the outside wall, and terminating at a normal
drain valve sticking out of the wall just below DPC level (which in this
place is still a couple of feet above outside ground level). That's over
a lawn, but obviously one can hose it to a another place outside if you
want.

At a friends place he has all the downstairs CH piping chased into the
solid floor. The service valves are again positioned outside, but this
time only 3 inches above ground level by a flower bed. Not quite as
easy, but still workable.

I'm sure I'm missing something :-) Just that every house I've lived at
the lowest CH pipe is well below the point of any surface drain.
Obviously anything above the FF (flats etc) and you're all set.

Even if so, then situation using a hose would be no better. The hose
would still need to rise to reach a drain in that case.

Now obviously you can still drain the bulk of the system even if the
drain level is higher than the lowest parts. If you really need to
completely drain the lowest part, and its well below drain level, then
you would probably need to drain to a condensate sump/pump style collector.

And the thought of draining even a clean ch system into a soakaway
sounds a bit gross.


Doesn't it smell for quite a while after you've drained the system? And
kill foliage etc?

Can't say I noticed - if the system is relatively clean with inhibitor,
you only get a small amount of sludge etc and lots of water to disperse
it. Also a drain over a flower bed etc only need drain into it for the
last little bit - you can run your hose outside for the bulk of the
drain down, and only the last (by then well flushed) few litres would
need to be dropped locally.


Thanks for the explanation.

I think I'm still carrying the scars of draining the system here, which
had turned into a sludge-like consistency. It now runs clear, but only
after I used a lowest-point drain, removed every radiator, and flushed
it several times.



--
Cheers, Rob