Longer term plan - not sure if it's likely to need PP?

It's hard to ask our council - you can't just pop over to see a bloke,
unlike the building inspector and they charge to even answer a letter
(tightarses!).

I have read that "engineering works" (meaning non de-minimis earthworks
in the garden) are not automatically considered as permitted development.

I want to regrade (change the level) of the front garden but chopping a
300mm lump off the high part and pushing it down the slope to the low
side, raising that no more than 200mm.

That seems like no one would care too much (decking under 300mm can be
permitted development, so if I am gaining 300mm I'm not going to be
annoying any overlooked neighbours).


But the bigger earthwork one will be cutting into a bank towards the
side road (I'm on the corner).

This bank is 1.2m above the level of the house ground floor and drive.
so the bank is cut back to fit the house and a path in.

I want to cut into this bank about 3m towards the road and 3-4m wide to
make a sunken patio area. Apart from a small wall or rockery around the
top edge to stop people falling down into it from the lawn, there will
be no works above ground level.

I might even go down 300mm as well to make it more hidden (the far end
of the garden is even further downhill so I should be able to arrange
drainage of the sunken area).


So is that *likely* to need PP?


I have trawled local PP applications for the last couple of years and I
can find no application for purely landscaping reasons... But several
sites suggest it is a grey area and might require it...


Cheers,

Tim

On 05/12/16 14:40, Tim Watts wrote:
Longer term plan - not sure if it's likely to need PP?

It's hard to ask our council - you can't just pop over to see a bloke,
unlike the building inspector and they charge to even answer a letter
(tightarses!).

I have read that "engineering works" (meaning non de-minimis earthworks
in the garden) are not automatically considered as permitted development.

I want to regrade (change the level) of the front garden but chopping a
300mm lump off the high part and pushing it down the slope to the low
side, raising that no more than 200mm.

That seems like no one would care too much (decking under 300mm can be
permitted development, so if I am gaining 300mm I'm not going to be
annoying any overlooked neighbours).


But the bigger earthwork one will be cutting into a bank towards the
side road (I'm on the corner).

This bank is 1.2m above the level of the house ground floor and drive.
so the bank is cut back to fit the house and a path in.

I want to cut into this bank about 3m towards the road and 3-4m wide to
make a sunken patio area. Apart from a small wall or rockery around the
top edge to stop people falling down into it from the lawn, there will
be no works above ground level.

I might even go down 300mm as well to make it more hidden (the far end
of the garden is even further downhill so I should be able to arrange
drainage of the sunken area).


So is that *likely* to need PP?


I have trawled local PP applications for the last couple of years and I
can find no application for purely landscaping reasons... But several
sites suggest it is a grey area and might require it...


Cheers,

Tim

Id say its more likely to need building control (to ensure you do it
right and don't e.g. introduce flooding problems) than planning (to
ensure you don't do it all, or ensure it doesn't impact on visual or
infrastructural stuff)


--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

Tim Watts wrote:
Longer term plan - not sure if it's likely to need PP?

It's hard to ask our council - you can't just pop over to see a bloke,
unlike the building inspector and they charge to even answer a letter
(tightarses!).

I have read that "engineering works" (meaning non de-minimis earthworks
in the garden) are not automatically considered as permitted development.

I want to regrade (change the level) of the front garden but chopping a
300mm lump off the high part and pushing it down the slope to the low
side, raising that no more than 200mm.

That seems like no one would care too much (decking under 300mm can be
permitted development, so if I am gaining 300mm I'm not going to be
annoying any overlooked neighbours).


But the bigger earthwork one will be cutting into a bank towards the
side road (I'm on the corner).

This bank is 1.2m above the level of the house ground floor and drive.
so the bank is cut back to fit the house and a path in.

I want to cut into this bank about 3m towards the road and 3-4m wide to
make a sunken patio area. Apart from a small wall or rockery around the
top edge to stop people falling down into it from the lawn, there will
be no works above ground level.

I might even go down 300mm as well to make it more hidden (the far end
of the garden is even further downhill so I should be able to arrange
drainage of the sunken area).


So is that *likely* to need PP?


I have trawled local PP applications for the last couple of years and I
can find no application for purely landscaping reasons... But several
sites suggest it is a grey area and might require it...


Cheers,

Tim

I know that they can be jumpy about creation of new impermeable surfaces
from the effect on surface water drainage and any works should not
affect sightlines for pedestrians and vehicles which is common sense but
apart from that I would JFDI. Ideally do it relatively quickly and
cleanly to avoid upsetting the neighbours and causing them to ask questions.

Bob

Well I've certainly not bothered, it usually depends on whether you live in
one of those conservation areas around here, over there you seem to need it
for replacing an existing shed at the back. maybe they are frightened drones
might spot it or something.
One thing to bear in mind is where water will go for the neighbours, as its
often them telling the council that sets the jobsworths onto you. I'd
quite like to put up a telescopic mast in the back, and I used to have
scaffold poles up in the past, but since the occupants have changed that
might have to go to planning with silly restrictions.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
Longer term plan - not sure if it's likely to need PP?

It's hard to ask our council - you can't just pop over to see a bloke,
unlike the building inspector and they charge to even answer a letter
(tightarses!).

I have read that "engineering works" (meaning non de-minimis earthworks in
the garden) are not automatically considered as permitted development.

I want to regrade (change the level) of the front garden but chopping a
300mm lump off the high part and pushing it down the slope to the low
side, raising that no more than 200mm.

That seems like no one would care too much (decking under 300mm can be
permitted development, so if I am gaining 300mm I'm not going to be
annoying any overlooked neighbours).


But the bigger earthwork one will be cutting into a bank towards the side
road (I'm on the corner).

This bank is 1.2m above the level of the house ground floor and drive. so
the bank is cut back to fit the house and a path in.

I want to cut into this bank about 3m towards the road and 3-4m wide to
make a sunken patio area. Apart from a small wall or rockery around the
top edge to stop people falling down into it from the lawn, there will be
no works above ground level.

I might even go down 300mm as well to make it more hidden (the far end of
the garden is even further downhill so I should be able to arrange
drainage of the sunken area).


So is that *likely* to need PP?


I have trawled local PP applications for the last couple of years and I
can find no application for purely landscaping reasons... But several
sites suggest it is a grey area and might require it...


Cheers,

Tim

On 05/12/16 14:57, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Id say its more likely to need building control (to ensure you do it
right and don't e.g. introduce flooding problems) than planning (to
ensure you don't do it all, or ensure it doesn't impact on visual or
infrastructural stuff)

Good call - I'd thought of that - and can ask the BCO in person when he
does his final inspection. There's no folloding risk (all back drained
onto my land) but he might have something to say about retaining walls
bordering highways...

If only our PP officers were available for 15 minute ad hoc queries...

On 05/12/16 15:18, Brian Gaff wrote:
Well I've certainly not bothered, it usually depends on whether you live in
one of those conservation areas around here, over there you seem to need it
for replacing an existing shed at the back. maybe they are frightened drones
might spot it or something.
One thing to bear in mind is where water will go for the neighbours, as its
often them telling the council that sets the jobsworths onto you. I'd
quite like to put up a telescopic mast in the back, and I used to have
scaffold poles up in the past, but since the occupants have changed that
might have to go to planning with silly restrictions.
Brian


Luckily I am outside the conservation area

On 05/12/16 15:12, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 5 Dec 2016 14:40:43 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:

Longer term plan - not sure if it's likely to need PP?
Can't answer your question, but Cornwall Council have a lot of
information on their web site, including advice on whether PP is
required, e.g. http://tinyurl.com/gma4q9g

I imagine a lot of the advice is pro forma, so your own council
probably has the same or similar advice information.


Thanks Chris:

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/inf...o_and_driveway

is the nearest I can find and it says:

"However, significant works of embanking or terracing to support a hard
surface might need a planning application."

Still grey - but at least it's addressed.

I suspect that going down is less of an issue than going up in height -
but I really don't know how they think...

People dig ponds all the time and some of those can be "significant" -
in fact about 1/3 of the dig out will be going straight into a massive
old pond adjacent anyway.

On 05/12/16 15:42, Tim Watts wrote:
If only our PP officers were available for 15 minute ad hoc queries...

I have found that planning CONSULTANTS are.

I asked one this year whether planning could be acquired to develop
outside of designated zones in the country. His remark 'Cats chance in
hell' was exactly the sort of information I needed, although I didnt
want to hear it.




--
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on
its shoes.

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...

Longer term plan - not sure if it's likely to need PP?

It's hard to ask our council - you can't just pop over to see a bloke,
unlike the building inspector and they charge to even answer a letter
(tightarses!).

I have read that "engineering works" (meaning non de-minimis earthworks in
the garden) are not automatically considered as permitted development.

I want to regrade (change the level) of the front garden but chopping a
300mm lump off the high part and pushing it down the slope to the low side,
raising that no more than 200mm.

That seems like no one would care too much (decking under 300mm can be
permitted development, so if I am gaining 300mm I'm not going to be
annoying any overlooked neighbours).


But the bigger earthwork one will be cutting into a bank towards the side
road (I'm on the corner).

This bank is 1.2m above the level of the house ground floor and drive. so
the bank is cut back to fit the house and a path in.

I want to cut into this bank about 3m towards the road and 3-4m wide to
make a sunken patio area. Apart from a small wall or rockery around the top
edge to stop people falling down into it from the lawn, there will be no
works above ground level.

I might even go down 300mm as well to make it more hidden (the far end of
the garden is even further downhill so I should be able to arrange drainage
of the sunken area).


So is that *likely* to need PP?


I have trawled local PP applications for the last couple of years and I can
find no application for purely landscaping reasons... But several sites
suggest it is a grey area and might require it...


Cheers,

Tim

As I understand it, on agricultural land, you can change levels up to 1
Metre without needing planning permission. I cannot quote chapter and verse,
but no one has challenged me having raised 3/4 acre by 30 inches 8 years ago


Andrew

On 05/12/16 16:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/12/16 15:42, Tim Watts wrote:
If only our PP officers were available for 15 minute ad hoc queries...

I have found that planning CONSULTANTS are.

That was going through my mind - happy to pay £100 for an answer like
that (I would expect to hear "no problem, just do it" or "you WILL need
PP"). In the latter case, I might need a bit of help drawing up a PP
application.

I will have to see if I can find one who knows the council and their
foibles ideally (I assumed that matters?)


I asked one this year whether planning could be acquired to develop
outside of designated zones in the country. His remark 'Cats chance in
hell' was exactly the sort of information I needed, although I didnt
want to hear it.

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...

On 05/12/16 16:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/12/16 15:42, Tim Watts wrote:
If only our PP officers were available for 15 minute ad hoc queries...

I have found that planning CONSULTANTS are.

That was going through my mind - happy to pay £100 for an answer like that
(I would expect to hear "no problem, just do it" or "you WILL need PP"). In
the latter case, I might need a bit of help drawing up a PP application.

I will have to see if I can find one who knows the council and their
foibles ideally (I assumed that matters?)


I asked one this year whether planning could be acquired to develop
outside of designated zones in the country. His remark 'Cats chance in
hell' was exactly the sort of information I needed, although I didnt
want to hear it.




When I was considering building a new tractor shed and wanted help from
Rother there was none ! All they would say was 'put in an application and
find out' - so pretty useless. Time was when you could get guidance talking
to a human being, but councils don't seem to employ them any more In the
event I slapped a 28 day notice on them and they accepted it still cost
£80 plus £100 for plans

Andrew

Tim Watts wrote:

If only our PP officers were available for 15 minute ad hoc queries...

Don't they have it on their price list as "pre-application advice"?

On 05/12/16 17:59, Andrew Mawson wrote:


When I was considering building a new tractor shed and wanted help from
Rother there was none ! All they would say was 'put in an application
and find out' - so pretty useless. Time was when you could get guidance
talking to a human being, but councils don't seem to employ them any
more In the event I slapped a 28 day notice on them and they accepted
it still cost £80 plus £100 for plans


That's the impression I got from Rother too (same council as you know).

The BCOs are great though - at least the two I met.

I suspect the BCOs are practical types that don't mind meeting the
public, whereas planning are faceless bureaucrats with no sense of
public service.

I think planning applications should be free and paid for out of council
tax - they are for the most part for *everyone else's* benefit and not
the applicant's.


BTW - what's a 28 day notice?

On 05/12/16 18:06, Andy Burns wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:

If only our PP officers were available for 15 minute ad hoc queries...

Don't they have it on their price list as "pre-application advice"?


Last I saw, they would only take written questions and then they charged
you - so you can't even pay for a bod's time for 15 minutes.

On 05/12/16 18:21, Tim Watts wrote:
On 05/12/16 18:06, Andy Burns wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:

If only our PP officers were available for 15 minute ad hoc queries...

Don't they have it on their price list as "pre-application advice"?


Last I saw, they would only take written questions and then they charged
you - so you can't even pay for a bod's time for 15 minutes.

Just checked:

===========
Please note that we are no longer able to offer an informal advice
service as to whether planning permission would or would not be required
for your proposal.

For a formal decision as to whether planning permission is required for
your proposal you will need to submit an application for a Certificate
of Lawful Development - Proposed.
===========


Useless buggers. I know our local councillor for them quite well - I
should mention that.

Tim Watts wrote:

Last I saw, they would only take written questions and then they charged
you - so you can't even pay for a bod's time for 15 minutes.

Have a look online at the application forms for some of the more
"challenging" planning applications you can think of in your area, they
usually have tickboxes for various things including "did you receive
pre-advice?" if you can find that any do, sometimes they refer to
meeting notes etc, then you at least know they offer the service ...

On 05/12/16 18:24, Tim Watts wrote:
On 05/12/16 18:21, Tim Watts wrote:
On 05/12/16 18:06, Andy Burns wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:

If only our PP officers were available for 15 minute ad hoc queries...

Don't they have it on their price list as "pre-application advice"?


Last I saw, they would only take written questions and then they charged
you - so you can't even pay for a bod's time for 15 minutes.

Just checked:

===========
Please note that we are no longer able to offer an informal advice
service as to whether planning permission would or would not be required
for your proposal.

For a formal decision as to whether planning permission is required for
your proposal you will need to submit an application for a Certificate
of Lawful Development - Proposed.
===========

And that costs £172!!! Robbing *******s.

And then you are probably tied to a specific plan. I want to know what
my options are. If you saw a bloke, he'd say "that'll need PP, but if
you put it 1m back/behind the elevation/less high it wouldn't".

I wouldn't bother if it was something trivial and easily undone - but I
don't fancy filling in 3-4 skips worth of hole in the marginal chance
they don't like it.

Tim Watts wrote:

Just checked:

Please note that we are no longer able to offer an informal advice
service

Oh well, got a tame councillor you can grumble to?

In message , Andrew Mawson
writes

As I understand it, on agricultural land, you can change levels up to 1
Metre without needing planning permission. I cannot quote chapter and
verse, but no one has challenged me having raised 3/4 acre by 30 inches
8 years ago

Don't do it on the flood plain and you need the appropriate EA waste
exemption. U10 is a good one:-) (spreading waste to benefit agricultural
land)

EA has an input to what happens within 8m of a non navigable waterway.

--
Tim Lamb

On 05/12/16 18:27, Andy Burns wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:

Last I saw, they would only take written questions and then they charged
you - so you can't even pay for a bod's time for 15 minutes.

Have a look online at the application forms for some of the more
"challenging" planning applications you can think of in your area, they
usually have tickboxes for various things including "did you receive
pre-advice?" if you can find that any do, sometimes they refer to
meeting notes etc, then you at least know they offer the service ...


Ooh - good idea

There was a house up the road that dug out a new drive in the front that
I am fairly sure involved digging into a 2-3' bank. I'll see if they
bothered with a PP application - and if so how it read.

And I will certainly have a look for what you suggested - it's free to
search.

I will keep looking in other parishes for any PPs applying to
landscaping only.

On 05/12/16 18:29, Andy Burns wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:

Just checked:

Please note that we are no longer able to offer an informal advice
service

Oh well, got a tame councillor you can grumble to?



Yes as a matter of fact

On 05/12/16 14:40, Tim Watts wrote:
Longer term plan - not sure if it's likely to need PP?

It's hard to ask our council - you can't just pop over to see a bloke,
unlike the building inspector and they charge to even answer a letter
(tightarses!).

I have read that "engineering works" (meaning non de-minimis earthworks
in the garden) are not automatically considered as permitted development.

I want to regrade (change the level) of the front garden but chopping a
300mm lump off the high part and pushing it down the slope to the low
side, raising that no more than 200mm.

That seems like no one would care too much (decking under 300mm can be
permitted development, so if I am gaining 300mm I'm not going to be
annoying any overlooked neighbours).


But the bigger earthwork one will be cutting into a bank towards the
side road (I'm on the corner).

This bank is 1.2m above the level of the house ground floor and drive.
so the bank is cut back to fit the house and a path in.

I want to cut into this bank about 3m towards the road and 3-4m wide to
make a sunken patio area. Apart from a small wall or rockery around the
top edge to stop people falling down into it from the lawn, there will
be no works above ground level.

I might even go down 300mm as well to make it more hidden (the far end
of the garden is even further downhill so I should be able to arrange
drainage of the sunken area).


So is that *likely* to need PP?

Bear in mind that once you ask they will know about it, whereas if you
do it and it doesnt bother anyone else then they will never know.

Also bear in mind that being the sort of people they are once you apply
it will get circulated for comments from other depts who will start
asking for surveys for things for which thee is no requirement.









I have trawled local PP applications for the last couple of years and I
can find no application for purely landscaping reasons... But several
sites suggest it is a grey area and might require it...


Cheers,

Tim



--
djc

(–€Ì¿Ä¹Ì¯–€Ì¿ Ì¿)
No low-hanging fruit, just a lot of small berries up a tall tree.

Tim Watts Wrote in message:
Longer term plan - not sure if it's likely to need PP?

It's hard to ask our council - you can't just pop over to see a bloke,
unlike the building inspector and they charge to even answer a letter
(tightarses!).

I have read that "engineering works" (meaning non de-minimis earthworks
in the garden) are not automatically considered as permitted development.

I want to regrade (change the level) of the front garden but chopping a
300mm lump off the high part and pushing it down the slope to the low
side, raising that no more than 200mm.

That seems like no one would care too much (decking under 300mm can be
permitted development, so if I am gaining 300mm I'm not going to be
annoying any overlooked neighbours).


But the bigger earthwork one will be cutting into a bank towards the
side road (I'm on the corner).

This bank is 1.2m above the level of the house ground floor and drive.
so the bank is cut back to fit the house and a path in.

I want to cut into this bank about 3m towards the road and 3-4m wide to
make a sunken patio area. Apart from a small wall or rockery around the
top edge to stop people falling down into it from the lawn, there will
be no works above ground level.

I might even go down 300mm as well to make it more hidden (the far end
of the garden is even further downhill so I should be able to arrange
drainage of the sunken area).


So is that *likely* to need PP?


I have trawled local PP applications for the last couple of years and I
can find no application for purely landscaping reasons... But several
sites suggest it is a grey area and might require it...


Cheers,

Tim



Once upon a time (90s) I dug a sunken patio into the hillside
garden of my then house. Mini digger for a bank holiday weekend &
of course it ****ed it down.

Tbh never considered planning permission, it's not like you're
building anything, nor changing use, it'll by definition be for
use "ancillary to domestic premises" so on what basis could
"permission" be needed?

I agree with the jfdi approach. Wading through opportunistic
official hoops to boost budgets & justify staffing levels would
probably cost you as much as the worst case scenario of filling
it in again?

Keep shtum & crack on ;-)
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 05/12/16 22:07, DJC wrote:

Bear in mind that once you ask they will know about it, whereas if you
do it and it doesnt bother anyone else then they will never know.

Also bear in mind that being the sort of people they are once you apply
it will get circulated for comments from other depts who will start
asking for surveys for things for which thee is no requirement.


I do bear that in mind very much mate.

That's kinda why I'd rather pay for 1 hour with a planning consultant (I
did not know the name until TNP mentioned, but I knew such professionals
existed).

If he says "90% unlikely you need PP" that would be good enough. Or he
might say: "It's 50/50 but if you did have to make a retrospective
application, it's 90% it would pass" - also OK.

If I heard "Almost certainly needs PP and it's 50/50 whether they'd give
it" - that would be the time I'd consider a certificate of lawful
development, just to avoid nasty surprised for the next 4 (or is it 5)
years.

On 05/12/16 23:41, jim wrote:
Tim Watts Wrote in message:
Longer term plan - not sure if it's likely to need PP?

It's hard to ask our council - you can't just pop over to see a bloke,
unlike the building inspector and they charge to even answer a letter
(tightarses!).

I have read that "engineering works" (meaning non de-minimis earthworks
in the garden) are not automatically considered as permitted development.

I want to regrade (change the level) of the front garden but chopping a
300mm lump off the high part and pushing it down the slope to the low
side, raising that no more than 200mm.

That seems like no one would care too much (decking under 300mm can be
permitted development, so if I am gaining 300mm I'm not going to be
annoying any overlooked neighbours).


But the bigger earthwork one will be cutting into a bank towards the
side road (I'm on the corner).

This bank is 1.2m above the level of the house ground floor and drive.
so the bank is cut back to fit the house and a path in.

I want to cut into this bank about 3m towards the road and 3-4m wide to
make a sunken patio area. Apart from a small wall or rockery around the
top edge to stop people falling down into it from the lawn, there will
be no works above ground level.

I might even go down 300mm as well to make it more hidden (the far end
of the garden is even further downhill so I should be able to arrange
drainage of the sunken area).


So is that *likely* to need PP?


I have trawled local PP applications for the last couple of years and I
can find no application for purely landscaping reasons... But several
sites suggest it is a grey area and might require it...


Cheers,

Tim



Once upon a time (90s) I dug a sunken patio into the hillside
garden of my then house. Mini digger for a bank holiday weekend &
of course it ****ed it down.

Tbh never considered planning permission, it's not like you're
building anything, nor changing use, it'll by definition be for
use "ancillary to domestic premises" so on what basis could
"permission" be needed?

Back in the 90's I wouldn't have considered it either.

It's one thing I hate about the 2000s - every bloody thing is regulated
to feck. And mine's round the front (well the side front rather than the
front front) so it'll be fairly obvious to all and sundry.

I agree with the jfdi approach. Wading through opportunistic
official hoops to boost budgets & justify staffing levels would
probably cost you as much as the worst case scenario of filling
it in again?

Keep shtum & crack on ;-)


Tempted - just don't want some nosey tart poking their oar in and
causing me grief. I get on fine with my immediate neighbours - in fact
the one next to this has offered to help me - he thinks it's a great idea.

On Monday, 5 December 2016 14:40:51 UTC, Tim Watts wrote:
Longer term plan - not sure if it's likely to need PP?

It's hard to ask our council - you can't just pop over to see a bloke,
unlike the building inspector and they charge to even answer a letter
(tightarses!).

I have read that "engineering works" (meaning non de-minimis earthworks
in the garden) are not automatically considered as permitted development.

I want to regrade (change the level) of the front garden but chopping a
300mm lump off the high part and pushing it down the slope to the low
side, raising that no more than 200mm.

That seems like no one would care too much (decking under 300mm can be
permitted development, so if I am gaining 300mm I'm not going to be
annoying any overlooked neighbours).


But the bigger earthwork one will be cutting into a bank towards the
side road (I'm on the corner).

This bank is 1.2m above the level of the house ground floor and drive.
so the bank is cut back to fit the house and a path in.

I want to cut into this bank about 3m towards the road and 3-4m wide to
make a sunken patio area. Apart from a small wall or rockery around the
top edge to stop people falling down into it from the lawn, there will
be no works above ground level.

I might even go down 300mm as well to make it more hidden (the far end
of the garden is even further downhill so I should be able to arrange
drainage of the sunken area).


So is that *likely* to need PP?


I have trawled local PP applications for the last couple of years and I
can find no application for purely landscaping reasons... But several
sites suggest it is a grey area and might require it...


Cheers,

Tim

Just do it and tell nobody.

On 05/12/2016 17:59, Andrew Mawson wrote:
"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...

On 05/12/16 16:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/12/16 15:42, Tim Watts wrote:
If only our PP officers were available for 15 minute ad hoc queries...

I have found that planning CONSULTANTS are.

That was going through my mind - happy to pay £100 for an answer like
that (I would expect to hear "no problem, just do it" or "you WILL
need PP"). In the latter case, I might need a bit of help drawing up a
PP application.

I will have to see if I can find one who knows the council and their
foibles ideally (I assumed that matters?)


I asked one this year whether planning could be acquired to develop
outside of designated zones in the country. His remark 'Cats chance in
hell' was exactly the sort of information I needed, although I didnt
want to hear it.




When I was considering building a new tractor shed and wanted help from
Rother there was none ! All they would say was 'put in an application
and find out' - so pretty useless. Time was when you could get guidance
talking to a human being, but councils don't seem to employ them any
more In the event I slapped a 28 day notice on them and they accepted
it still cost £80 plus £100 for plans


In the 80s when I was working as a development surveyor, part of the
development appraisal involved a meeting with the planners. Most of the
time it was to find out about the possibility of a change of use, but
could also include more complicated things.

Always free, at least where I worked, Midland and Yorkshire, and on the
whole a pleasure to work with.

Be interesting to see what the impact has been. I'd guess a bunch of not
permitted development, and a conservative approach to anything
approaching official channels.

--
Cheers, Rob

Tim Watts wrote:

On 05/12/16 17:59, Andrew Mawson wrote:


When I was considering building a new tractor shed and wanted help from
Rother there was none ! All they would say was 'put in an application
and find out' - so pretty useless. Time was when you could get guidance
talking to a human being, but councils don't seem to employ them any
more In the event I slapped a 28 day notice on them and they accepted
it still cost £80 plus £100 for plans


That's the impression I got from Rother too (same council as you know).

The BCOs are great though - at least the two I met.

I suspect the BCOs are practical types that don't mind meeting the
public, whereas planning are faceless bureaucrats with no sense of
public service.

I think planning applications should be free and paid for out of council
tax - they are for the most part for *everyone else's* benefit and not
the applicant's.


My experience some decades back is that planning officers were highly
approachable and helpful. I think there has been some central
government edict demanding that councils make "efficiency savings" by
preventing their planning officers from giving unpaid informal advice.
Probably enabled them to sack half of them.

--

Roger Hayter

RJH wrote:

On 05/12/2016 17:59, Andrew Mawson wrote:
"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...

On 05/12/16 16:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/12/16 15:42, Tim Watts wrote:
If only our PP officers were available for 15 minute ad hoc queries...

I have found that planning CONSULTANTS are.

That was going through my mind - happy to pay £100 for an answer like
that (I would expect to hear "no problem, just do it" or "you WILL
need PP"). In the latter case, I might need a bit of help drawing up a
PP application.

I will have to see if I can find one who knows the council and their
foibles ideally (I assumed that matters?)


I asked one this year whether planning could be acquired to develop
outside of designated zones in the country. His remark 'Cats chance in
hell' was exactly the sort of information I needed, although I didnt
want to hear it.




When I was considering building a new tractor shed and wanted help from
Rother there was none ! All they would say was 'put in an application
and find out' - so pretty useless. Time was when you could get guidance
talking to a human being, but councils don't seem to employ them any
more In the event I slapped a 28 day notice on them and they accepted
it still cost £80 plus £100 for plans


In the 80s when I was working as a development surveyor, part of the
development appraisal involved a meeting with the planners. Most of the
time it was to find out about the possibility of a change of use, but
could also include more complicated things.

Always free, at least where I worked, Midland and Yorkshire, and on the
whole a pleasure to work with.

Be interesting to see what the impact has been. I'd guess a bunch of not
permitted development, and a conservative approach to anything
approaching official channels.

Some councils will apparently let you pay for an informal meeting with
planning officers prior to, and at additional cost to, an actual
application.


--

Roger Hayter

"Roger Hayter" wrote in message
...

RJH wrote:

On 05/12/2016 17:59, Andrew Mawson wrote:
"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...

On 05/12/16 16:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/12/16 15:42, Tim Watts wrote:
If only our PP officers were available for 15 minute ad hoc
queries...

I have found that planning CONSULTANTS are.

That was going through my mind - happy to pay £100 for an answer like
that (I would expect to hear "no problem, just do it" or "you WILL
need PP"). In the latter case, I might need a bit of help drawing up a
PP application.

I will have to see if I can find one who knows the council and their
foibles ideally (I assumed that matters?)


I asked one this year whether planning could be acquired to develop
outside of designated zones in the country. His remark 'Cats chance
in
hell' was exactly the sort of information I needed, although I didnt
want to hear it.




When I was considering building a new tractor shed and wanted help from
Rother there was none ! All they would say was 'put in an application
and find out' - so pretty useless. Time was when you could get guidance
talking to a human being, but councils don't seem to employ them any
more In the event I slapped a 28 day notice on them and they
accepted
it still cost £80 plus £100 for plans


In the 80s when I was working as a development surveyor, part of the
development appraisal involved a meeting with the planners. Most of the
time it was to find out about the possibility of a change of use, but
could also include more complicated things.

Always free, at least where I worked, Midland and Yorkshire, and on the
whole a pleasure to work with.

Be interesting to see what the impact has been. I'd guess a bunch of not
permitted development, and a conservative approach to anything
approaching official channels.

Some councils will apparently let you pay for an informal meeting with
planning officers prior to, and at additional cost to, an actual
application.



The 'Planning Portal' advises you to talk to your local planning authority
prior to submitting an application, but in the case of Rother they REFUSE to
talk to you !

Andrew

On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 13:38:50 -0000, Andrew Mawson wrote:

The 'Planning Portal' advises you to talk to your local planning authority
prior to submitting an application, but in the case of Rother they REFUSE to
talk to you !

So complain to your local councillor.

On 05/12/2016 14:57, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
why not go an have informal chat with Planning Officer - I have found
them fine.
I wanted to build a 1.5m wall around property ... current development
consent stated a fence.
They were happy to discuss ... and sent me a nice letter giving em
permission for wall up to 1.8m as long as bricks & mortar matched the
house (which I wanted)

No cost, no application.

On 07/12/16 18:50, rick wrote:
On 05/12/2016 14:57, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
why not go an have informal chat with Planning Officer - I have found
them fine.

You can't, where I am. They even state this on their website.

I wanted to build a 1.5m wall around property ... current development
consent stated a fence.
They were happy to discuss ... and sent me a nice letter giving em
permission for wall up to 1.8m as long as bricks & mortar matched the
house (which I wanted)

No cost, no application.