I have very bad ground .... it was a selfbuild site that was land built
up by over 20' back in 30's to become a railway sidings .... what they
built it up with is steel works slag & subsoil from nearby A road they
were digging through a hill.
Disused since 60's it became a SelfBuild site.

For my main veg plots I built up high raised beds and imported soil ...
and over a couple of years with loads of manure & sharp sand have got
this to good condition and very fertile.
But for borders and ground level beds ... although I dug out the 'sub
soil' to a depth of 24' and put in imported soil it is very heavy - with
high clay content, gets waterlogged.

Due to established plants SWMBO won't let me Rotavate it so mass
addition of anything is not an option.
I have come up with a plan B

I bought a hand operated 4" diameter Auger ... and have the idea that
every 2' or so will bore put a 4" hole around 2' deep and fill it with
sharp sand ... and top the last 2" with good loam.
Physically tried it and it bores the holes easily.
My thought being 2 fold ... vertical drainage will allow (by
hydrostatic pressure) water to seep into the sand filled 'tubes' and
help drain the ground.
and secondly over time the sand will mix in with soil by worm action
etc. ,,, and improve the soil.

Anybody see any issues with this €¦. And maybe any improvement €¦. maybe
something other than just sharp sand into the holes ?

On 03/12/16 13:20, rick wrote:
I have very bad ground .... it was a selfbuild site that was land built
up by over 20' back in 30's to become a railway sidings .... what they
built it up with is steel works slag & subsoil from nearby A road they
were digging through a hill.
Disused since 60's it became a SelfBuild site.

For my main veg plots I built up high raised beds and imported soil ...
and over a couple of years with loads of manure & sharp sand have got
this to good condition and very fertile.
But for borders and ground level beds ... although I dug out the 'sub
soil' to a depth of 24' and put in imported soil it is very heavy - with
high clay content, gets waterlogged.

Due to established plants SWMBO won't let me Rotavate it so mass
addition of anything is not an option.
I have come up with a plan B

I bought a hand operated 4" diameter Auger ... and have the idea that
every 2' or so will bore put a 4" hole around 2' deep and fill it with
sharp sand ... and top the last 2" with good loam.
Physically tried it and it bores the holes easily.
My thought being 2 fold ... vertical drainage will allow (by
hydrostatic pressure) water to seep into the sand filled 'tubes' and
help drain the ground.
and secondly over time the sand will mix in with soil by worm action
etc. ,,, and improve the soil.

Anybody see any issues with this €¦. And maybe any improvement €¦. maybe
something other than just sharp sand into the holes ?



This sort of works.

In my case where I had waterlogged clay, I added limestone road bed
material, and the grass then grew on top, whilst the water flowed through it

The farm around me is done very very carefully, and features fixed
porous land drains at serious subsoil depths, criss crossed by a mole
ploughed herringbone pattern that is higher up, and is refreshed every
few years.

That's how you REALLY mange waterloging.

So in principle, you need drainage channels of some sort to carry excess
water away, and you need ways to get any surface water to those channels
effectively. Just raising the surface of course works - the water will
flow *under* the flowerbeds instead of through...

But if you want to really drain an area, you need to set up proper
drainage of some sort. Wherever the water naturally drains TO, you need
to build a system that will get it there faster, and that mains digging
down into the subsoil and creating underground water channels, either of
pipes or of porous material.

And that's why your vertical bores will only sort of work., They will
act as sumps, they will carry surface water undergruund BUT unless they
penetrate to an effective drain or aquifer, they wont ultimately get rid
of the water.

What WILL works is a trench around the area you want to drain filled
with a porous pipe bedded in pea shingle, and back filled. And that pipe
must flow down to a soakaway elsewere or a ditch, or whatever is the
local drainage system

I have used a pond for this. Bloody great hole, into which pipe flows.

But that was on sloping land.

Oh, a weeping willow will dry an area of soil about 2/3rds of its
height, and they grow fast.



--
"What do you think about Gay Marriage?"
"I don't."
"Don't what?"
"Think about Gay Marriage."

On 03/12/2016 13:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/12/16 13:20, rick wrote:

IN places on site I have dug down about 1.5m installed drainage crates

They help ... but as ground does not drain, not perfect.
Just doing this job now to improve SWMBO flowerbeds.

Just put a dozen holes in about 2' deep and filled with sharp sand
........ while this may not be perfect it may help.

Main thing is improving soil condition ... ground is built up at least
20' ....so no way to dig down to good soil.

"rick" wrote in message
news
I have very bad ground .... it was a selfbuild site that was land built up
by over 20' back in 30's to become a railway sidings .... what they built
it up with is steel works slag & subsoil from nearby A road they were
digging through a hill.
Disused since 60's it became a SelfBuild site.

For my main veg plots I built up high raised beds and imported soil ...
and over a couple of years with loads of manure & sharp sand have got this
to good condition and very fertile.
But for borders and ground level beds ... although I dug out the 'sub
soil' to a depth of 24' and put in imported soil it is very heavy - with
high clay content, gets waterlogged.

Due to established plants SWMBO won't let me Rotavate it so mass addition
of anything is not an option.
I have come up with a plan B

I bought a hand operated 4" diameter Auger ... and have the idea that
every 2' or so will bore put a 4" hole around 2' deep and fill it with
sharp sand ... and top the last 2" with good loam.
Physically tried it and it bores the holes easily.

My thought being 2 fold ... vertical drainage will allow (by hydrostatic
pressure) water to seep into the sand filled 'tubes'

Yes.

and help drain the ground.

Nope, it would stay in those sand filled 'tubes'

and secondly over time the sand will mix in with soil by worm action etc.
,,, and improve the soil.

Its far from clear that the worms would have
any interest in those sand filled 'tubes'

Anybody see any issues with this €¦.

Yep, can't see it working.

And maybe any improvement €¦.

Cant see any viable alternative to traditional horizontal
drains with the associated difficulty of putting those in
there now when SWMBO doesnt want it disturbed now.

maybe something other than just sharp sand into the holes ?

Even decent soil or compost isnt going to do anything for
the waterlogging. It would certainly be more likely to see
the worms interested in it tho and so may at least in theory
end up mixing that in with the current stuff over time, but
its far from clear how quickly that would happen and if it
would give you any improvement in your lifetime remaining.

If it was mine, I'd cut to the chase, install drains properly and
replant and re-establish the plants that SWMBO wants again,
but then I dont not within bobbitting range of SWMBO.

On Saturday, 3 December 2016 16:36:05 UTC, rick wrote:
On 03/12/2016 13:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/12/16 13:20, rick wrote:

IN places on site I have dug down about 1.5m installed drainage crates

They help ... but as ground does not drain, not perfect.
Just doing this job now to improve SWMBO flowerbeds.

Just put a dozen holes in about 2' deep and filled with sharp sand
....... while this may not be perfect it may help.

Main thing is improving soil condition ... ground is built up at least
20' ....so no way to dig down to good soil.

Soil condition is best built up by food scraps & plant trimmings.


NT

wrote in message
...

On Saturday, 3 December 2016 16:36:05 UTC, rick wrote:
On 03/12/2016 13:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/12/16 13:20, rick wrote:

IN places on site I have dug down about 1.5m installed drainage crates

They help ... but as ground does not drain, not perfect.
Just doing this job now to improve SWMBO flowerbeds.

Just put a dozen holes in about 2' deep and filled with sharp sand
....... while this may not be perfect it may help.

Main thing is improving soil condition ... ground is built up at least
20' ....so no way to dig down to good soil.

Soil condition is best built up by food scraps & plant trimmings.


NT

Keep pigs on it for a couple of seasons - works wonders !

Andrew

On 03/12/2016 20:04, wrote:


Soil condition is best built up by food scraps & plant trimmings.



In my case I do not need to increase the fertility - it is fine, just
the tilth .. or 'crumb'

Clay for example is usually very fertile plus it holds water - but poor
soil condition.
My soil is a mixture of clay & silt ... so fertile, but holds water and
becomes heavy.

Good quality compost improves both fertility and soil condition, I do
add plenty of that to raised beds but can't add to these flower beds due
to established plants.

In message , rick
writes
On 03/12/2016 20:04, wrote:


Soil condition is best built up by food scraps & plant trimmings.



In my case I do not need to increase the fertility - it is fine, just
the tilth .. or 'crumb'

Clay for example is usually very fertile plus it holds water - but poor
soil condition.
My soil is a mixture of clay & silt ... so fertile, but holds water and
becomes heavy.

Good quality compost improves both fertility and soil condition, I do
add plenty of that to raised beds but can't add to these flower beds
due to established plants.

Re-cycle some plasterboard...
http://www.downtoearthrecyclingltd.c...incoln-Gypsum-
18.php




--
Tim Lamb

Tim Lamb wrote:

Re-cycle some plasterboard...
http://www.downtoearthrecyclingltd.co.uk/Waste_Management-Lincoln-Gypsum-18.php

So recycling centres now charge for taking plasterboard, because they're
not allowed to bury it along with organic matter, because it might
release sulphur ... so they separate it then sell it to be used as a
soil improver, where presumably it will meet organic matter anyway?

On 05/12/16 09:09, Andy Burns wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:

Re-cycle some plasterboard...
http://www.downtoearthrecyclingltd.co.uk/Waste_Management-Lincoln-Gypsum-18.php


So recycling centres now charge for taking plasterboard, because they're
not allowed to bury it along with organic matter, because it might
release sulphur ... so they separate it then sell it to be used as a
soil improver, where presumably it will meet organic matter anyway?


Yup. That sounds about right.

--
Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early
twenty-first centurys developed world went into hysterical panic over a
globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and,
on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer
projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to
contemplate a rollback of the industrial age.

Richard Lindzen

In article , Andy Burns
writes
Tim Lamb wrote:

Re-cycle some plasterboard...

http://www.downtoearthrecyclingltd.c...t-Lincoln-Gyps
um-18.php

So recycling centres now charge for taking plasterboard, because
they're not allowed to bury it along with organic matter, because it
might release sulphur ... so they separate it then sell it to be used
as a soil improver, where presumably it will meet organic matter anyway?


Gypsum - breaks down clay without changing ph - unlike lime.
--
bert

On 03/12/2016 16:36, rick wrote:

On 03/12/2016 13:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/12/16 13:20, rick wrote:

IN places on site I have dug down about 1.5m installed drainage crates

They help ... but as ground does not drain, not perfect.
Just doing this job now to improve SWMBO flowerbeds.

Just put a dozen holes in about 2' deep and filled with sharp sand
....... while this may not be perfect it may help.

Main thing is improving soil condition ... ground is built up at least
20' ....so no way to dig down to good soil.

Assuming your garden is large enough to have a decent sized compost heap
mulch the beds with 4-6" of compost just before winter and leave the
worms to do all the work digging it in. Failing that spent mushroom
compost isn't a bad alternative (or spent compost from a garden centre).

Your best bet is to make a pond in the most waterlogged part or grow
plants more appropriate to the tricky local conditions. My own soil is a
very heavy clay - the bricks for the house were made from local clay!

Worth asking in uk.rec.gardening for other suggestions of plants and
strategies. Punching through the clay might be one approach if you can
be sure there is a porous layer underneath. The watertable is only a
foot or so below the surface in parts of my garden. My garage pit has to
be drained of water before it is usable.

Clay is very fertile but inclined to waterlog (I have a gradient to
allow the water to drain away). A spring breaks out at the bottom of my
garden after heavy rain. I have ferns and bog plants there now - grass
just wouldn't grow! (I did try improving drainage for a while first)

Although you can buy soil improvers supposed to break down clay by
making it flocculate I have never had much luck with them. Bulky organic
material works but takes time to apply and get results.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Saturday, 3 December 2016 13:20:05 UTC, rick wrote:
I have very bad ground .... it was a selfbuild site that was land built
up by over 20' back in 30's to become a railway sidings .... what they
built it up with is steel works slag & subsoil from nearby A road they
were digging through a hill.
Disused since 60's it became a SelfBuild site.

For my main veg plots I built up high raised beds and imported soil ...
and over a couple of years with loads of manure & sharp sand have got
this to good condition and very fertile.
But for borders and ground level beds ... although I dug out the 'sub
soil' to a depth of 24' and put in imported soil it is very heavy - with
high clay content, gets waterlogged.

Due to established plants SWMBO won't let me Rotavate it so mass
addition of anything is not an option.
I have come up with a plan B

I bought a hand operated 4" diameter Auger ... and have the idea that
every 2' or so will bore put a 4" hole around 2' deep and fill it with
sharp sand ... and top the last 2" with good loam.
Physically tried it and it bores the holes easily.
My thought being 2 fold ... vertical drainage will allow (by
hydrostatic pressure) water to seep into the sand filled 'tubes' and
help drain the ground.
and secondly over time the sand will mix in with soil by worm action
etc. ,,, and improve the soil.

Anybody see any issues with this €¦. And maybe any improvement €¦. maybe
something other than just sharp sand into the holes ?

At this time of year, gather up as many dead laves as you can and dig them in.
Or better, compost them first.
Lawnmower makes a good dead leaf gatherer.

On 08/12/16 18:40, Chris Hogg wrote:

You may find that the auger holes just act as sumps and fill with
water no matter what you put in them, sand, gravel, whatever. If you
drill them down through the clayey layer to something more porous
below, then they may drain OK, but I'm not sure there is such a layer
from your description.

I've always wondered - how thick is a the clay layer likely to be (feet,
meters, 10's metres?)

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 08/12/16 18:40, Chris Hogg wrote:

You may find that the auger holes just act as sumps and fill with
water no matter what you put in them, sand, gravel, whatever. If you
drill them down through the clayey layer to something more porous
below, then they may drain OK, but I'm not sure there is such a layer
from your description.

I've always wondered - how thick is a the clay layer likely to be (feet,
meters, 10's metres?)

Lots of times its meters and tens of meters.

On 08/12/16 19:23, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 18:56:03 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:

On 08/12/16 18:40, Chris Hogg wrote:

You may find that the auger holes just act as sumps and fill with
water no matter what you put in them, sand, gravel, whatever. If you
drill them down through the clayey layer to something more porous
below, then they may drain OK, but I'm not sure there is such a layer
from your description.

I've always wondered - how thick is a the clay layer likely to be (feet,
meters, 10's metres?)

Where are you? Some parts of the country, especially in the east, the
clay can be many hundreds of feet thick, although around Cambridge the
soil can be quite sandy, I believe.


Kent/East Sussex border...

On 08/12/16 19:33, Chris Hogg wrote:

Found this map: http://tinyurl.com/jol3f2j The white area running from
Norfolk to the Isle of Wight is chalk, the coloured bits are clay of
one sort or another.


Cool - thanks!

In that case I'm probably on the Weald Clay Formation.

On 08/12/16 19:33, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Thu, 08 Dec 2016 19:23:01 +0000, Chris Hogg wrote:

On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 18:56:03 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:

I've always wondered - how thick is a the clay layer likely to be (feet,
meters, 10's metres?)

Where are you? Some parts of the country, especially in the east, the
clay can be many hundreds of feet thick, although around Cambridge the
soil can be quite sandy, I believe.

Found this map: http://tinyurl.com/jol3f2j The white area running from
Norfolk to the Isle of Wight is chalk, the coloured bits are clay of
one sort or another.

There are detailed geological maps online a BGS

http://www.bgs.ac.uk/data/maps/



--
djc

(–€Ì¿Ä¹Ì¯–€Ì¿ Ì¿)
No low-hanging fruit, just a lot of small berries up a tall tree.

On 08/12/16 20:56, Tim Watts wrote:
On 08/12/16 18:40, Chris Hogg wrote:

You may find that the auger holes just act as sumps and fill with
water no matter what you put in them, sand, gravel, whatever. If you
drill them down through the clayey layer to something more porous
below, then they may drain OK, but I'm not sure there is such a layer
from your description.

I've always wondered - how thick is a the clay layer likely to be (feet,
meters, 10's metres?)

meters. But it depends.

Clay is finely ground rock, thats all. Where I live its boulder clay,
formed by the ice sheet scraping the top ff the UK and dumping it in
Suffolk over pre-existent chalk, as the glaciers retreated. Its a huge
terminal moraine, and in some places its tens of meters thick, and in
other places where the water ran different its pure sand and gravel,
those being a coarse version of clay.

Up the top of a hill were I lived, it was about 4-6 feet into chalk: 10
miles west the chalk is at the surface, and they have a horse racing
town. a few miles east is a gravel pit, and further in in a valley its
clay deeper than who knows what.

There is no 'normal'

On 08/12/16 22:27, Tim Watts wrote:
On 08/12/16 19:23, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 18:56:03 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:

On 08/12/16 18:40, Chris Hogg wrote:

You may find that the auger holes just act as sumps and fill with
water no matter what you put in them, sand, gravel, whatever. If you
drill them down through the clayey layer to something more porous
below, then they may drain OK, but I'm not sure there is such a layer
from your description.

I've always wondered - how thick is a the clay layer likely to be (feet,
meters, 10's metres?)

Where are you? Some parts of the country, especially in the east, the
clay can be many hundreds of feet thick, although around Cambridge the
soil can be quite sandy, I believe.


Kent/East Sussex border...

Ah. that's complex. You have there the weald, which is sandstone and
'heath-ey', then tere is a clay vale, then a greensand ridge, then
another clay vale, and then a chalk escarpment.

THAT clay is I think far far older than the last ice age, and has had
chalk laid over it. So its some sort of seabed clay I think.


I THINK the geology of the bit if england south of London is not post
glacial at all. Its far older and is some sort of ancient shallow sea
and delta with sand gravel and clay mud, with a load of chalk from
smashed up sea creatures on top.

http://www.kgg.org.uk/kentgeo.html

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...

On 08/12/16 19:23, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 18:56:03 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:

On 08/12/16 18:40, Chris Hogg wrote:

You may find that the auger holes just act as sumps and fill with
water no matter what you put in them, sand, gravel, whatever. If you
drill them down through the clayey layer to something more porous
below, then they may drain OK, but I'm not sure there is such a layer
from your description.

I've always wondered - how thick is a the clay layer likely to be (feet,
meters, 10's metres?)

Where are you? Some parts of the country, especially in the east, the
clay can be many hundreds of feet thick, although around Cambridge the
soil can be quite sandy, I believe.


Kent/East Sussex border...


Tim, if you search for bore hole data near you, you will get a full written
description of the sections of the ground through which they have bored:

http://www.bgs.ac.uk/data/boreholescans/home.html


Andrew

On 08/12/16 20:48, DJC wrote:
On 08/12/16 19:33, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Thu, 08 Dec 2016 19:23:01 +0000, Chris Hogg wrote:

On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 18:56:03 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:

I've always wondered - how thick is a the clay layer likely to be
(feet,
meters, 10's metres?)

Where are you? Some parts of the country, especially in the east, the
clay can be many hundreds of feet thick, although around Cambridge the
soil can be quite sandy, I believe.

Found this map: http://tinyurl.com/jol3f2j The white area running from
Norfolk to the Isle of Wight is chalk, the coloured bits are clay of
one sort or another.

There are detailed geological maps online a BGS

http://www.bgs.ac.uk/data/maps/




That's incredibly interesting - thank you!

"Ashdown beds, sands and silts with subordinate clays - 140m"

On 08/12/16 22:18, Andrew Mawson wrote:
"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...

On 08/12/16 19:23, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 18:56:03 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:

On 08/12/16 18:40, Chris Hogg wrote:

You may find that the auger holes just act as sumps and fill with
water no matter what you put in them, sand, gravel, whatever. If you
drill them down through the clayey layer to something more porous
below, then they may drain OK, but I'm not sure there is such a layer
from your description.

I've always wondered - how thick is a the clay layer likely to be
(feet,
meters, 10's metres?)

Where are you? Some parts of the country, especially in the east, the
clay can be many hundreds of feet thick, although around Cambridge the
soil can be quite sandy, I believe.


Kent/East Sussex border...


Tim, if you search for bore hole data near you, you will get a full
written description of the sections of the ground through which they
have bored:

http://www.bgs.ac.uk/data/boreholescans/home.html


Andrew



Bugger me - that is a resource I didn't know existed - thanks Andrew.

Here's one just up the road:

http://scans.bgs.ac.uk/sobi_scans/bo.../12589683.html

1.1m clay then sandstone.

Sounds like hand augering time

On Thursday, 8 December 2016 22:17:16 UTC, Andrew Mawson wrote:
"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...

On 08/12/16 19:23, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 18:56:03 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:

On 08/12/16 18:40, Chris Hogg wrote:

You may find that the auger holes just act as sumps and fill with
water no matter what you put in them, sand, gravel, whatever. If you
drill them down through the clayey layer to something more porous
below, then they may drain OK, but I'm not sure there is such a layer
from your description.

I've always wondered - how thick is a the clay layer likely to be (feet,
meters, 10's metres?)

Where are you? Some parts of the country, especially in the east, the
clay can be many hundreds of feet thick, although around Cambridge the
soil can be quite sandy, I believe.


Kent/East Sussex border...


Tim, if you search for bore hole data near you, you will get a full written
description of the sections of the ground through which they have bored:

http://www.bgs.ac.uk/data/boreholescans/home.html


Andrew

And a few yards away it could be different.
All large building project have a test hole dug to ascertain whats below.
Improving clay soil for horticulture is well documented and it doesn't include "hand augering".

https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?PID=620

In message , Andrew Mawson
writes

Tim, if you search for bore hole data near you, you will get a full
written description of the sections of the ground through which they
have bored:

http://www.bgs.ac.uk/data/boreholescans/home.html

Interesting. Thanks. The local water co. bored a large well on our land
in 2005.

The detailed register shows no information although I can tell the world
it was sandy chalk down as far as they went. I hope the residents of
Welwyn/Hatfield are suitably grateful:-)

--
Tim Lamb

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
I've always wondered - how thick is a the clay layer likely to be (feet,
meters, 10's metres?)

meters. But it depends.

Clay is finely ground rock, thats all. Where I live its boulder clay,
formed by the ice sheet scraping the top ff the UK and dumping it in
Suffolk over pre-existent chalk, as the glaciers retreated. Its a huge
terminal moraine, and in some places its tens of meters thick, and in
other places where the water ran different its pure sand and gravel,
those being a coarse version of clay.

Up the top of a hill were I lived, it was about 4-6 feet into chalk: 10
miles west the chalk is at the surface, and they have a horse racing
town. a few miles east is a gravel pit, and further in in a valley its
clay deeper than who knows what.

There is no 'normal'

Fair bit of Herts. came from Norway hence the lumps of pudding stone I'm
told.

--
Tim Lamb

In message , Chris Hogg
writes
On Fri, 9 Dec 2016 10:39:36 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:

Fair bit of Herts. came from Norway hence the lumps of pudding stone I'm
told.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hertfo...e_puddingstone

Mine are glacial erratics:-)


--
Tim Lamb

On 08/12/16 22:53, Tim Watts wrote:
On 08/12/16 20:48, DJC wrote:
On 08/12/16 19:33, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Thu, 08 Dec 2016 19:23:01 +0000, Chris Hogg wrote:

Found this map: http://tinyurl.com/jol3f2j The white area running from
Norfolk to the Isle of Wight is chalk, the coloured bits are clay of
one sort or another.

There are detailed geological maps online a BGS

http://www.bgs.ac.uk/data/maps/




That's incredibly interesting - thank you!

"Ashdown beds, sands and silts with subordinate clays - 140m"


You may also find this version interesting

http://mapapps.bgs.ac.uk/geologyofbritain/home.html

--
djc

(–€Ì¿Ä¹Ì¯–€Ì¿ Ì¿)
No low-hanging fruit, just a lot of small berries up a tall tree.

On 09/12/16 20:35, DJC wrote:
On 08/12/16 22:53, Tim Watts wrote:
On 08/12/16 20:48, DJC wrote:
On 08/12/16 19:33, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Thu, 08 Dec 2016 19:23:01 +0000, Chris Hogg wrote:

Found this map: http://tinyurl.com/jol3f2j The white area running from
Norfolk to the Isle of Wight is chalk, the coloured bits are clay of
one sort or another.

There are detailed geological maps online a BGS

http://www.bgs.ac.uk/data/maps/




That's incredibly interesting - thank you!

"Ashdown beds, sands and silts with subordinate clays - 140m"


You may also find this version interesting

http://mapapps.bgs.ac.uk/geologyofbritain/home.html


Bookmarked - thank you - that is the best overview. Really interesting,
looking at my hometown of Banstead in Surrey - that's got several
different types all in the space of 500 yards.

On 09/12/2016 07:16, Tim Watts wrote:


Tim, if you search for bore hole data near you, you will get a full
written description of the sections of the ground through which they
have bored:

http://www.bgs.ac.uk/data/boreholescans/home.html


Andrew



Bugger me - that is a resource I didn't know existed - thanks Andrew.

Here's one just up the road:

http://scans.bgs.ac.uk/sobi_scans/bo.../12589683.html

1.1m clay then sandstone.

Sounds like hand augering time

I can beat that. Back in 1939 they put one in my garden!

It says

Boulder Clay )
? UCk ) ... ... 70 70

Which is not what I'd call a full written description.

UCk is apparently

http://www.bgs.ac.uk/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?pub=UCK

(Obsolete, but I presumably not back then)

Does this mean it was clay all the way, or there was a little bit then
the chalk?

There is a big of galvanised _something_ under one of the shrubs. I
wonder if that could be it? I keep meaning to dig it up...

Andy

On 12/12/2016 08:48, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sun, 11 Dec 2016 21:41:46 +0000, Vir Campestris
I can beat that. Back in 1939 they put one in my garden!

It says

Boulder Clay )
? UCk ) ... ... 70 70

Which is not what I'd call a full written description.

UCk is apparently

http://www.bgs.ac.uk/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?pub=UCK

(Obsolete, but I presumably not back then)

Does this mean it was clay all the way, or there was a little bit then
the chalk?

There is a big of galvanised _something_ under one of the shrubs. I
wonder if that could be it? I keep meaning to dig it up...

Andy

AIUI:
UC = Upper Cretaceous, i.e. upper chalk deposits
K or k is the conventional abbreviation, from the German kreidezeit,
literally meaning 'chalk time' (as in K-T boundary, the division
between the Cretaceous and Tertiary geologic periods).

Boulder clay is deposited from melting glaciers ice-sheets etc. As TNP
said earlier in this thread, it's ground up rock (but not all clay is
simply that). It's basically a surface deposit covering the underlying
rocks. Thicknesses can vary widely from a few feet to many tens, even
hundreds of feet.

We have a 'galvanised something' in our garden buried under a couple
of inches of soil. It's a corrugated sheet that is partly concreted
over and covers a 5ft cubed soak-away taking rainwater off the roof.

So it's chalk based clay? Fits. There is the odd flint in it.

The galvanised thingy

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l17/Number774/Photo0014_zpsaf14fea4.jpg

There's something in it

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l17/Number774/Photo0013_zpscb681fce.jpg
that feels as if it's stuck in rubber. Probably not a soakaway... might
be the well cap. There was one somewhere once.

Andy

In message , Vir
Campestris writes
On 12/12/2016 08:48, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sun, 11 Dec 2016 21:41:46 +0000, Vir Campestris
I can beat that. Back in 1939 they put one in my garden!

It says

Boulder Clay )
? UCk ) ... ... 70 70

Which is not what I'd call a full written description.

UCk is apparently

http://www.bgs.ac.uk/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?pub=UCK

(Obsolete, but I presumably not back then)

Does this mean it was clay all the way, or there was a little bit then
the chalk?

There is a big of galvanised _something_ under one of the shrubs. I
wonder if that could be it? I keep meaning to dig it up...

Andy

AIUI:
UC = Upper Cretaceous, i.e. upper chalk deposits
K or k is the conventional abbreviation, from the German kreidezeit,
literally meaning 'chalk time' (as in K-T boundary, the division
between the Cretaceous and Tertiary geologic periods).

Boulder clay is deposited from melting glaciers ice-sheets etc. As TNP
said earlier in this thread, it's ground up rock (but not all clay is
simply that). It's basically a surface deposit covering the underlying
rocks. Thicknesses can vary widely from a few feet to many tens, even
hundreds of feet.

We have a 'galvanised something' in our garden buried under a couple
of inches of soil. It's a corrugated sheet that is partly concreted
over and covers a 5ft cubed soak-away taking rainwater off the roof.

So it's chalk based clay? Fits. There is the odd flint in it.

The galvanised thingy

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l17/Number774/Photo0014_zpsaf14fea4.jpg

There's something in it

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l17/Number774/Photo0013_zpscb681fce.jpg
that feels as if it's stuck in rubber. Probably not a soakaway... might
be the well cap. There was one somewhere once.

Umm.. Could it be a well (bore hole)? The one here looked a bit larger
in diameter. The central shaft could be the plunger for the pump body
located at the bottom of the well. Ours had a wooden shaft and a small
electric motor to drive it up and down.

I think the pump seal is cup shaped so it allows water by on the down
stroke but seals on the up.

Andy

--
Tim Lamb

In message , Chris Hogg
writes
On Mon, 12 Dec 2016 21:06:14 +0000, Vir Campestris
wrote:

On 12/12/2016 08:48, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sun, 11 Dec 2016 21:41:46 +0000, Vir Campestris
I can beat that. Back in 1939 they put one in my garden!

It says

Boulder Clay )
? UCk ) ... ... 70 70

Which is not what I'd call a full written description.

UCk is apparently

http://www.bgs.ac.uk/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?pub=UCK

(Obsolete, but I presumably not back then)

Does this mean it was clay all the way, or there was a little bit then
the chalk?

There is a big of galvanised _something_ under one of the shrubs. I
wonder if that could be it? I keep meaning to dig it up...

Andy

AIUI:
UC = Upper Cretaceous, i.e. upper chalk deposits
K or k is the conventional abbreviation, from the German kreidezeit,
literally meaning 'chalk time' (as in K-T boundary, the division
between the Cretaceous and Tertiary geologic periods).

Boulder clay is deposited from melting glaciers ice-sheets etc. As TNP
said earlier in this thread, it's ground up rock (but not all clay is
simply that). It's basically a surface deposit covering the underlying
rocks. Thicknesses can vary widely from a few feet to many tens, even
hundreds of feet.

We have a 'galvanised something' in our garden buried under a couple
of inches of soil. It's a corrugated sheet that is partly concreted
over and covers a 5ft cubed soak-away taking rainwater off the roof.

So it's chalk based clay? Fits. There is the odd flint in it.

Possibly, although boulder clay contains a right mixture of rock
grindings from all over and would be on top of the chalk proper. No
reason why there shouldn't be some chalk in it though. Any clue as to
what the 70 70 means? Are they depths or thicknesses for example?

The galvanised thingy

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l17/Number774/Photo0014_zpsaf14fea4.jpg

There's something in it

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l17/Number774/Photo0013_zpscb681fce.jpg
that feels as if it's stuck in rubber. Probably not a soakaway... might
be the well cap. There was one somewhere once.

Andy

Oh _that_ galvanised thingy! You've posted it here before IIRC. I did
wonder if it was the top end of a simple lift pump, the thing in the
middle being the pump rod that goes up and down, operated by a lever
now long gone, rather like this http://tinyurl.com/hvcpazm But why put
a cap on it when it was dismantled?

Snap:-)

Possibly to stop small children shoving things down it:-)



--
Tim Lamb

On 03/12/2016 20:17, Andrew Mawson wrote:
wrote in message
...

On Saturday, 3 December 2016 16:36:05 UTC, rick wrote:
On 03/12/2016 13:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/12/16 13:20, rick wrote:

IN places on site I have dug down about 1.5m installed drainage crates

They help ... but as ground does not drain, not perfect.
Just doing this job now to improve SWMBO flowerbeds.

Just put a dozen holes in about 2' deep and filled with sharp sand
....... while this may not be perfect it may help.

Main thing is improving soil condition ... ground is built up at least
20' ....so no way to dig down to good soil.

Soil condition is best built up by food scraps & plant trimmings.


NT

Keep pigs on it for a couple of seasons - works wonders !

Andrew

if you want it 'rotavated'.

Or plant spuds everywhere. Double bonus.