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CH leaks
We have a problem with pressure loss in our central heating system.
Topping up each day and loosing 1bar or so in a matter of hours shows something is wrong. Brit. Gas have said there must be a leak and they've got to the stage of suggesting taking up flooring to inspect pipes and junctions. This is getting expensive and disruptive! BG have a £1000 limit on their part of repair and making good costs. Have people tried: http://www.adileakdetection.co.uk/le...tion-services/ http://www.leakdetectionspecialists....erty-leaks.htm http://www.leakbusters.net/ (There are others) Any experience with one of these companies? Pin-pointing the leak position may save money in the long term, even though the survey will cost a few hundred pounds. I've yet to explore the home insurance angle to reclaim some costs. |
CH leaks
mechanic wrote:
We have a problem with pressure loss in our central heating system. Topping up each day and loosing 1bar or so in a matter of hours shows something is wrong. Brit. Gas have said there must be a leak and they've got to the stage of suggesting taking up flooring to inspect pipes and junctions. This is getting expensive and disruptive! BG have a £1000 limit on their part of repair and making good costs. Have people tried: http://www.adileakdetection.co.uk/le...tion-services/ http://www.leakdetectionspecialists....erty-leaks.htm http://www.leakbusters.net/ (There are others) Any experience with one of these companies? Pin-pointing the leak position may save money in the long term, even though the survey will cost a few hundred pounds. I've yet to explore the home insurance angle to reclaim some costs. Have you checked that the pressure relief valve is seating properly? A common cause of pressure loss. Normally just turn the knob a few times with the system pressurised to clear any crud from the seat. |
CH leaks
On 27/11/2016 12:56, mechanic wrote:
We have a problem with pressure loss in our central heating system. Topping up each day and loosing 1bar or so in a matter of hours shows something is wrong. Brit. Gas have said there must be a leak and they've got to the stage of suggesting taking up flooring to inspect pipes and junctions. This is getting expensive and disruptive! BG have a £1000 limit on their part of repair and making good costs. Have people tried: http://www.adileakdetection.co.uk/le...tion-services/ http://www.leakdetectionspecialists....erty-leaks.htm http://www.leakbusters.net/ (There are others) Any experience with one of these companies? Pin-pointing the leak position may save money in the long term, even though the survey will cost a few hundred pounds. I've yet to explore the home insurance angle to reclaim some costs. Can you isolate sections by adding ball valves, then you could narrow down the likely fault area. But first off have you checked the obvious stuff like the pressure relief valve (which can and do leak after a time) Air bleed valve (mine is a brass pot on the pump) Pressure in the pressure vessel (if this has no air pressure then system pressure can go high and lose water through the pressure relief valve) |
CH leaks
On 27/11/2016 13:15, MrCheerful wrote:
On 27/11/2016 12:56, mechanic wrote: We have a problem with pressure loss in our central heating system. Topping up each day and loosing 1bar or so in a matter of hours shows something is wrong. Brit. Gas have said there must be a leak and they've got to the stage of suggesting taking up flooring to inspect pipes and junctions. This is getting expensive and disruptive! BG have a £1000 limit on their part of repair and making good costs. Have people tried: http://www.adileakdetection.co.uk/le...tion-services/ http://www.leakdetectionspecialists....erty-leaks.htm http://www.leakbusters.net/ (There are others) Any experience with one of these companies? Pin-pointing the leak position may save money in the long term, even though the survey will cost a few hundred pounds. I've yet to explore the home insurance angle to reclaim some costs. Can you isolate sections by adding ball valves, then you could narrow down the likely fault area. But first off have you checked the obvious stuff like the pressure relief valve (which can and do leak after a time) Air bleed valve (mine is a brass pot on the pump) Pressure in the pressure vessel (if this has no air pressure then system pressure can go high and lose water through the pressure relief valve) Yup this... If you tie a sandwich bag (or similar) over the end of the pressure relief pipe outside with a rubber band, you will be able to see if any water is being discharged though that over the day. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
CH leaks
mechanic wrote:
We have a problem with pressure loss in our central heating system. Topping up each day and loosing 1bar or so in a matter of hours shows something is wrong. Brit. Gas have said there must be a leak and they've got to the stage of suggesting taking up flooring to inspect pipes and junctions. This is getting expensive and disruptive! BG have a £1000 limit on their part of repair and making good costs. Have people tried: http://www.adileakdetection.co.uk/le...tion-services/ http://www.leakdetectionspecialists....erty-leaks.htm http://www.leakbusters.net/ (There are others) Any experience with one of these companies? Pin-pointing the leak position may save money in the long term, even though the survey will cost a few hundred pounds. I've yet to explore the home insurance angle to reclaim some costs. If you can't see any damp patches or pools of water indoors, then the water is going outside. If it needs topping up daily, you couldn't possibly have missed an internal leak as it would amount to a small bucket full every day. As others have said, the water is being expelled outdoors via the pressure relief valve.....and I find it impossible to believe that BG didn't already know this |
CH leaks
my leak was hidden behing a bed ! ..... |
CH leaks
On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 13:58:38 +0000, John Rumm wrote:
On 27/11/2016 13:15, MrCheerful wrote: On 27/11/2016 12:56, mechanic wrote: We have a problem with pressure loss in our central heating system. Topping up each day and loosing 1bar or so in a matter of hours shows something is wrong. Brit. Gas have said there must be a leak and they've got to the stage of suggesting taking up flooring to inspect pipes and junctions. This is getting expensive and disruptive! BG have a £1000 limit on their part of repair and making good costs. Have people tried: http://www.adileakdetection.co.uk/le...tion-services/ http://www.leakdetectionspecialists....erty-leaks.htm http://www.leakbusters.net/ (There are others) Any experience with one of these companies? Pin-pointing the leak position may save money in the long term, even though the survey will cost a few hundred pounds. I've yet to explore the home insurance angle to reclaim some costs. Can you isolate sections by adding ball valves, then you could narrow down the likely fault area. But first off have you checked the obvious stuff like the pressure relief valve (which can and do leak after a time) Air bleed valve (mine is a brass pot on the pump) Pressure in the pressure vessel (if this has no air pressure then system pressure can go high and lose water through the pressure relief valve) Yup this... If you tie a sandwich bag (or similar) over the end of the pressure relief pipe outside with a rubber band, you will be able to see if any water is being discharged though that over the day. Yes, actually I had a bag over the condensate pipe all day today (with the boiler off) to check for leakage via that - nothing. The PSV was replaced last week when this problem first surfaced, and the washers and seating were perfectly dry. There must be considerable water being lost somewhere but no sign of it on the surface, around rads, hot water cylinder or boiler. The BG guy is coming next week to blank off the pipework in order to separate the boiler from the rad feed pipework. Not sure which is the most expensive outcome as apparently the boiler is now too old to have full parts support. |
CH leaks
On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 14:10:34 -0000, Phil L wrote:
If you can't see any damp patches or pools of water indoors, then the water is going outside. If it needs topping up daily, you couldn't possibly have missed an internal leak as it would amount to a small bucket full every day. As others have said, the water is being expelled outdoors via the pressure relief valve.....and I find it impossible to believe that BG didn't already know this There is also the possibility of discharge from a joint into the earth, as we have suspended timber floor about half a meter off the ground. It is a lot of water as you say - hard to miss. |
CH leaks
On 27/11/16 14:10, Phil L wrote:
mechanic wrote: We have a problem with pressure loss in our central heating system. Topping up each day and loosing 1bar or so in a matter of hours shows something is wrong. Brit. Gas have said there must be a leak and they've got to the stage of suggesting taking up flooring to inspect pipes and junctions. This is getting expensive and disruptive! BG have a £1000 limit on their part of repair and making good costs. Have people tried: http://www.adileakdetection.co.uk/le...tion-services/ http://www.leakdetectionspecialists....erty-leaks.htm http://www.leakbusters.net/ (There are others) Any experience with one of these companies? Pin-pointing the leak position may save money in the long term, even though the survey will cost a few hundred pounds. I've yet to explore the home insurance angle to reclaim some costs. If you can't see any damp patches or pools of water indoors, then the water is going outside. If it needs topping up daily, you couldn't possibly have missed an internal leak as it would amount to a small bucket full every day. As others have said, the water is being expelled outdoors via the pressure relief valve.....and I find it impossible to believe that BG didn't already know this When this happened to a mates boiler, it was simply the pressure vessel needed pumping up. WE would top up the CH primary, but as soon as it got hot it would blow the pressure relief valve and dump water outside. Pumping up the expansion thing with a car pump to around - cant remember - look it up online - is simple and cheap and may fix the problem. OTOH the boiler here, had to have a whole new expansion tank.. -- You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone. Al Capone |
CH leaks
On 27/11/16 13:58, John Rumm wrote:
On 27/11/2016 13:15, MrCheerful wrote: On 27/11/2016 12:56, mechanic wrote: We have a problem with pressure loss in our central heating system. Topping up each day and loosing 1bar or so in a matter of hours shows something is wrong. Brit. Gas have said there must be a leak and they've got to the stage of suggesting taking up flooring to inspect pipes and junctions. This is getting expensive and disruptive! BG have a £1000 limit on their part of repair and making good costs. Have people tried: http://www.adileakdetection.co.uk/le...tion-services/ http://www.leakdetectionspecialists....erty-leaks.htm http://www.leakbusters.net/ (There are others) Any experience with one of these companies? Pin-pointing the leak position may save money in the long term, even though the survey will cost a few hundred pounds. I've yet to explore the home insurance angle to reclaim some costs. Can you isolate sections by adding ball valves, then you could narrow down the likely fault area. But first off have you checked the obvious stuff like the pressure relief valve (which can and do leak after a time) Air bleed valve (mine is a brass pot on the pump) Pressure in the pressure vessel (if this has no air pressure then system pressure can go high and lose water through the pressure relief valve) Yup this... If you tie a sandwich bag (or similar) Condom. over the end of the pressure relief pipe outside with a rubber band, you will be able to see if any water is being discharged though that over the day. -- Those who want slavery should have the grace to name it by its proper name. They must face the full meaning of that which they are advocating or condoning; the full, exact, specific meaning of collectivism, of its logical implications, of the principles upon which it is based, and of the ultimate consequences to which these principles will lead. They must face it, then decide whether this is what they want or not. Ayn Rand. |
CH leaks
On 27/11/2016 15:37, mechanic wrote:
On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 13:58:38 +0000, John Rumm wrote: On 27/11/2016 13:15, MrCheerful wrote: On 27/11/2016 12:56, mechanic wrote: We have a problem with pressure loss in our central heating system. Topping up each day and loosing 1bar or so in a matter of hours shows something is wrong. Brit. Gas have said there must be a leak and they've got to the stage of suggesting taking up flooring to inspect pipes and junctions. This is getting expensive and disruptive! BG have a £1000 limit on their part of repair and making good costs. Have people tried: http://www.adileakdetection.co.uk/le...tion-services/ http://www.leakdetectionspecialists....erty-leaks.htm http://www.leakbusters.net/ (There are others) Any experience with one of these companies? Pin-pointing the leak position may save money in the long term, even though the survey will cost a few hundred pounds. I've yet to explore the home insurance angle to reclaim some costs. Can you isolate sections by adding ball valves, then you could narrow down the likely fault area. But first off have you checked the obvious stuff like the pressure relief valve (which can and do leak after a time) Air bleed valve (mine is a brass pot on the pump) Pressure in the pressure vessel (if this has no air pressure then system pressure can go high and lose water through the pressure relief valve) Yup this... If you tie a sandwich bag (or similar) over the end of the pressure relief pipe outside with a rubber band, you will be able to see if any water is being discharged though that over the day. Yes, actually I had a bag over the condensate pipe all day today (with the boiler off) to check for leakage via that - nothing. The PSV was replaced last week when this problem first surfaced, and the washers and seating were perfectly dry. There must be considerable water being lost somewhere but no sign of it on the surface, around rads, hot water cylinder or boiler. The BG guy is coming next week to blank off the pipework in order to separate the boiler from the rad feed pipework. Not sure which is the most expensive outcome as apparently the boiler is now too old to have full parts support. The pressure relief pipe would be the most likely, if your loss is from the condensate pipe then the boiler heat exchanger has gone, in which case it is probably time for a new boiler. |
CH leaks
On 27/11/2016 15:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 27/11/16 14:10, Phil L wrote: mechanic wrote: We have a problem with pressure loss in our central heating system. Topping up each day and loosing 1bar or so in a matter of hours shows something is wrong. Brit. Gas have said there must be a leak and they've got to the stage of suggesting taking up flooring to inspect pipes and junctions. This is getting expensive and disruptive! BG have a £1000 limit on their part of repair and making good costs. Have people tried: http://www.adileakdetection.co.uk/le...tion-services/ http://www.leakdetectionspecialists....erty-leaks.htm http://www.leakbusters.net/ (There are others) Any experience with one of these companies? Pin-pointing the leak position may save money in the long term, even though the survey will cost a few hundred pounds. I've yet to explore the home insurance angle to reclaim some costs. If you can't see any damp patches or pools of water indoors, then the water is going outside. If it needs topping up daily, you couldn't possibly have missed an internal leak as it would amount to a small bucket full every day. As others have said, the water is being expelled outdoors via the pressure relief valve.....and I find it impossible to believe that BG didn't already know this When this happened to a mates boiler, it was simply the pressure vessel needed pumping up. WE would top up the CH primary, but as soon as it got hot it would blow the pressure relief valve and dump water outside. Pumping up the expansion thing with a car pump to around - cant remember - look it up online - is simple and cheap and may fix the problem. OTOH the boiler here, had to have a whole new expansion tank.. they are very cheap and easy to fit and practically a consumable item. However, until the PRV pipe is checked no-one can tell. |
CH leaks
On 27/11/2016 15:39, mechanic wrote:
On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 14:10:34 -0000, Phil L wrote: If you can't see any damp patches or pools of water indoors, then the water is going outside. If it needs topping up daily, you couldn't possibly have missed an internal leak as it would amount to a small bucket full every day. As others have said, the water is being expelled outdoors via the pressure relief valve.....and I find it impossible to believe that BG didn't already know this There is also the possibility of discharge from a joint into the earth, as we have suspended timber floor about half a meter off the ground. It is a lot of water as you say - hard to miss. If you've definitely ruled out the pressure relief valve, it's got to be a leak under the ground floor boards. Half a meter is a bit of a squeeze, but you may be able to crawl under there to take a look. (Take a mobile phone with you, so you can call the fire brigade if you get stuck. That'll give them some fun!) You can probably get access via the under stairs cupboard without wrecking the downstairs floors. Do you know any small, slim, agile people, who aren't scared of spiders? Or get one of those USB cams, but it will be very hard to spot what won't be much more than a steady drip of water. It'll just soak into the ground under the house, particularly if you are on sand. |
CH leaks
In article ,
GB wrote: On 27/11/2016 15:39, mechanic wrote: On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 14:10:34 -0000, Phil L wrote: If you can't see any damp patches or pools of water indoors, then the water is going outside. If it needs topping up daily, you couldn't possibly have missed an internal leak as it would amount to a small bucket full every day. As others have said, the water is being expelled outdoors via the pressure relief valve.....and I find it impossible to believe that BG didn't already know this There is also the possibility of discharge from a joint into the earth, as we have suspended timber floor about half a meter off the ground. It is a lot of water as you say - hard to miss. If you've definitely ruled out the pressure relief valve, it's got to be a leak under the ground floor boards. Half a meter is a bit of a squeeze, but you may be able to crawl under there to take a look. [Snip] send a small child down. When we bought our first house it needed wiring and my wife's youngest brother who was about 8 yo, thought it was great fun to crawl under the floorboards pulling cables. -- from KT24 in Surrey, England |
CH leaks
On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 16:13:52 +0000, MrCheerful wrote:
The pressure relief pipe would be the most likely, if your loss is from the condensate pipe then the boiler heat exchanger has gone, in which case it is probably time for a new boiler. No drips from the condensation pipe over six hours or so, during which the pressure dropped by about one bar. Our British Gas 'engineer' suggested this to rule out the heat exchanger (apparently no spares of this model now available). I'll check on the insurance cover tomorrow and explore the leak detection company options. Drilling holes in our Amtico flooring or ripping it up together with the plywood substrate doesn't appeal one bit. Re-instating it would cost a small fortune. |
CH leaks
On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 16:17:44 +0000, GB wrote:
Half a meter is a bit of a squeeze, but you may be able to crawl under there to take a look. I exaggerated - it's really about 300mm. We have air bricks in the walls for ventilation - maybe the BG fibre optic probe thingie may spot a pool of water. |
CH leaks
On 27/11/2016 17:38, mechanic wrote:
On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 16:13:52 +0000, MrCheerful wrote: .... snipped Our British Gas 'engineer' suggested this to rule out the heat exchanger (apparently no spares of this model now available). .... snipped May not be relevant to your actual problem but BG are renowned for saying that spares aren't available when they often are. Bear this in mind if the problem turns out to be in the boiler and they recommend a boiler replacement! |
CH leaks
On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 17:38:58 -0000, mechanic wrote:
On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 16:13:52 +0000, MrCheerful wrote: The pressure relief pipe would be the most likely, if your loss is from the condensate pipe then the boiler heat exchanger has gone, in which case it is probably time for a new boiler. No drips from the condensation pipe over six hours or so, during which the pressure dropped by about one bar. Our British Gas 'engineer' suggested this to rule out the heat exchanger (apparently no spares of this model now available). I'll check on the insurance cover tomorrow and explore the leak detection company options. Drilling holes in our Amtico flooring or ripping it up together with the plywood substrate doesn't appeal one bit. Re-instating it would cost a small fortune. Is there no way you can at least peer under the floor with a torch and spot water? -- Women have large buttocks because they need airbags behind them. They're **** at reversing. |
CH leaks
On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 15:55:53 -0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 27/11/16 14:10, Phil L wrote: mechanic wrote: We have a problem with pressure loss in our central heating system. Topping up each day and loosing 1bar or so in a matter of hours shows something is wrong. Brit. Gas have said there must be a leak and they've got to the stage of suggesting taking up flooring to inspect pipes and junctions. This is getting expensive and disruptive! BG have a £1000 limit on their part of repair and making good costs. Have people tried: http://www.adileakdetection.co.uk/le...tion-services/ http://www.leakdetectionspecialists....erty-leaks.htm http://www.leakbusters.net/ (There are others) Any experience with one of these companies? Pin-pointing the leak position may save money in the long term, even though the survey will cost a few hundred pounds. I've yet to explore the home insurance angle to reclaim some costs. If you can't see any damp patches or pools of water indoors, then the water is going outside. If it needs topping up daily, you couldn't possibly have missed an internal leak as it would amount to a small bucket full every day. As others have said, the water is being expelled outdoors via the pressure relief valve.....and I find it impossible to believe that BG didn't already know this When this happened to a mates boiler, it was simply the pressure vessel needed pumping up. Ah the wonders of the traditional gravity fed top up tank.... If I lose a bit of water I simply don't give a damn! -- Pain is Weakness Leaving the Body - US Marines |
CH leaks
On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 14:40:52 -0000, Jimbo in the near of Hawick ... wrote:
my leak was hidden behing a bed ! ..... Is that a euphemism? -- Why is there no Disneyland in China? No one's tall enough to go on the good rides. |
CH leaks
"John Rumm" wrote in message ... On 27/11/2016 13:15, MrCheerful wrote: On 27/11/2016 12:56, mechanic wrote: We have a problem with pressure loss in our central heating system. Topping up each day and loosing 1bar or so in a matter of hours shows something is wrong. Brit. Gas have said there must be a leak and they've got to the stage of suggesting taking up flooring to inspect pipes and junctions. This is getting expensive and disruptive! BG have a £1000 limit on their part of repair and making good costs. Have people tried: http://www.adileakdetection.co.uk/le...tion-services/ http://www.leakdetectionspecialists....erty-leaks.htm http://www.leakbusters.net/ (There are others) Any experience with one of these companies? Pin-pointing the leak position may save money in the long term, even though the survey will cost a few hundred pounds. I've yet to explore the home insurance angle to reclaim some costs. Can you isolate sections by adding ball valves, then you could narrow down the likely fault area. But first off have you checked the obvious stuff like the pressure relief valve (which can and do leak after a time) Air bleed valve (mine is a brass pot on the pump) Pressure in the pressure vessel (if this has no air pressure then system pressure can go high and lose water through the pressure relief valve) Yup this... If you tie a sandwich bag (or similar) over the end of the pressure relief pipe outside with a rubber band, you will be able to see if any water is being discharged though that over the day. Hell of an indictment of British Gas if they havent checked for that tho. |
CH leaks
"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message ... On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 14:40:52 -0000, Jimbo in the near of Hawick ... wrote: my leak was hidden behing a bed ! ..... Is that a euphemism? no |
CH leaks
On 27/11/2016 15:37, mechanic wrote:
On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 13:58:38 +0000, John Rumm wrote: On 27/11/2016 13:15, MrCheerful wrote: On 27/11/2016 12:56, mechanic wrote: We have a problem with pressure loss in our central heating system. Topping up each day and loosing 1bar or so in a matter of hours shows something is wrong. Brit. Gas have said there must be a leak and they've got to the stage of suggesting taking up flooring to inspect pipes and junctions. This is getting expensive and disruptive! BG have a £1000 limit on their part of repair and making good costs. Have people tried: http://www.adileakdetection.co.uk/le...tion-services/ http://www.leakdetectionspecialists....erty-leaks.htm http://www.leakbusters.net/ (There are others) Any experience with one of these companies? Pin-pointing the leak position may save money in the long term, even though the survey will cost a few hundred pounds. I've yet to explore the home insurance angle to reclaim some costs. Can you isolate sections by adding ball valves, then you could narrow down the likely fault area. But first off have you checked the obvious stuff like the pressure relief valve (which can and do leak after a time) Air bleed valve (mine is a brass pot on the pump) Pressure in the pressure vessel (if this has no air pressure then system pressure can go high and lose water through the pressure relief valve) Yup this... If you tie a sandwich bag (or similar) over the end of the pressure relief pipe outside with a rubber band, you will be able to see if any water is being discharged though that over the day. Yes, actually I had a bag over the condensate pipe all day today (with the boiler off) to check for leakage via that - nothing. The PSV was replaced last week when this problem first surfaced, and the washers and seating were perfectly dry. There must be considerable water being lost somewhere but no sign of it on the surface, around rads, hot water cylinder or boiler. The BG guy is coming next week to blank off the pipework in order to separate the boiler from the rad feed pipework. Not sure which is the most expensive outcome as apparently the boiler is now too old to have full parts support. Even if the PRV is working properly and not letting by, you can still get a problem due to over pressure if the expansion vessel has failed or needs pumping up. However I would have expected that would have been one of the first things they would have checked... -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
CH leaks
On 27/11/2016 17:38, mechanic wrote:
On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 16:13:52 +0000, MrCheerful wrote: The pressure relief pipe would be the most likely, if your loss is from the condensate pipe then the boiler heat exchanger has gone, in which case it is probably time for a new boiler. No drips from the condensation pipe over six hours or so, during Note that the condensate pipe is quite a different thing from the over pressure relief pipe. (one would expect the condensate pipe to pass water periodically - but that is not water from the primary side of the heating circuit. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
CH leaks
In article ,
wrote: On 27/11/2016 17:38, mechanic wrote: On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 16:13:52 +0000, MrCheerful wrote: ... snipped Our British Gas 'engineer' suggested this to rule out the heat exchanger (apparently no spares of this model now available). ... snipped May not be relevant to your actual problem but BG are renowned for saying that spares aren't available when they often are. Bear this in mind if the problem turns out to be in the boiler and they recommend a boiler replacement! Agreed. Some years ago the boiler in our village hall stopped working and someone called BG. No spares for a boiler of that age. So I called a boiler expert who took one look, rang someone on his mobile "Fred, have you got a ??? for a ??? ?" "Good, I'll collect it later today." -- from KT24 in Surrey, England |
CH leaks
On 27/11/2016 20:00, John Rumm wrote:
On 27/11/2016 15:37, mechanic wrote: On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 13:58:38 +0000, John Rumm wrote: On 27/11/2016 13:15, MrCheerful wrote: On 27/11/2016 12:56, mechanic wrote: We have a problem with pressure loss in our central heating system. Topping up each day and loosing 1bar or so in a matter of hours shows something is wrong. Brit. Gas have said there must be a leak and they've got to the stage of suggesting taking up flooring to inspect pipes and junctions. This is getting expensive and disruptive! BG have a £1000 limit on their part of repair and making good costs. Have people tried: http://www.adileakdetection.co.uk/le...tion-services/ http://www.leakdetectionspecialists....erty-leaks.htm http://www.leakbusters.net/ (There are others) Any experience with one of these companies? Pin-pointing the leak position may save money in the long term, even though the survey will cost a few hundred pounds. I've yet to explore the home insurance angle to reclaim some costs. Can you isolate sections by adding ball valves, then you could narrow down the likely fault area. But first off have you checked the obvious stuff like the pressure relief valve (which can and do leak after a time) Air bleed valve (mine is a brass pot on the pump) Pressure in the pressure vessel (if this has no air pressure then system pressure can go high and lose water through the pressure relief valve) Yup this... If you tie a sandwich bag (or similar) over the end of the pressure relief pipe outside with a rubber band, you will be able to see if any water is being discharged though that over the day. Yes, actually I had a bag over the condensate pipe all day today (with the boiler off) to check for leakage via that - nothing. The PSV was replaced last week when this problem first surfaced, and the washers and seating were perfectly dry. There must be considerable water being lost somewhere but no sign of it on the surface, around rads, hot water cylinder or boiler. The BG guy is coming next week to blank off the pipework in order to separate the boiler from the rad feed pipework. Not sure which is the most expensive outcome as apparently the boiler is now too old to have full parts support. Even if the PRV is working properly and not letting by, you can still get a problem due to over pressure if the expansion vessel has failed or needs pumping up. However I would have expected that would have been one of the first things they would have checked... When I had a similar problem I undid the fill valve on the expansion vessel and water poured out - at least there wasn't much doubt about what the problem was! |
CH leaks
On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 19:14:58 -0000, Jimbo in the near of Hawick ... wrote:
"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message ... On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 14:40:52 -0000, Jimbo in the near of Hawick ... wrote: my leak was hidden behing a bed ! ..... Is that a euphemism? no So you eventually discovered you weren't a bedwetter after all :-) -- Have you heard the slogan for Trojan's new "Stealth" Condom? "They'll never see you coming." |
CH leaks
On 11/27/2016 2:10 PM, Phil L wrote:
mechanic wrote: We have a problem with pressure loss in our central heating system. Topping up each day and loosing 1bar or so in a matter of hours shows something is wrong. Brit. Gas have said there must be a leak and they've got to the stage of suggesting taking up flooring to inspect pipes and junctions. This is getting expensive and disruptive! BG have a £1000 limit on their part of repair and making good costs. Have people tried: http://www.adileakdetection.co.uk/le...tion-services/ http://www.leakdetectionspecialists....erty-leaks.htm http://www.leakbusters.net/ (There are others) Any experience with one of these companies? Pin-pointing the leak position may save money in the long term, even though the survey will cost a few hundred pounds. I've yet to explore the home insurance angle to reclaim some costs. If you can't see any damp patches or pools of water indoors, then the water is going outside. If it needs topping up daily, you couldn't possibly have missed an internal leak as it would amount to a small bucket full every day. As others have said, the water is being expelled outdoors via the pressure relief valve.....and I find it impossible to believe that BG didn't already know this Are the floors downstairs solid or suspended? You could easily miss a modest sized leak there. Years ago, one of my neighbours had a failure of his bathroom grey water drain which created a small lake under the living room, and he only discovered that when he had to take floorboards up for rewiring. |
CH leaks
On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 21:11:17 -0000, newshound wrote:
On 11/27/2016 2:10 PM, Phil L wrote: mechanic wrote: We have a problem with pressure loss in our central heating system. Topping up each day and loosing 1bar or so in a matter of hours shows something is wrong. Brit. Gas have said there must be a leak and they've got to the stage of suggesting taking up flooring to inspect pipes and junctions. This is getting expensive and disruptive! BG have a £1000 limit on their part of repair and making good costs. Have people tried: http://www.adileakdetection.co.uk/le...tion-services/ http://www.leakdetectionspecialists....erty-leaks.htm http://www.leakbusters.net/ (There are others) Any experience with one of these companies? Pin-pointing the leak position may save money in the long term, even though the survey will cost a few hundred pounds. I've yet to explore the home insurance angle to reclaim some costs. If you can't see any damp patches or pools of water indoors, then the water is going outside. If it needs topping up daily, you couldn't possibly have missed an internal leak as it would amount to a small bucket full every day. As others have said, the water is being expelled outdoors via the pressure relief valve.....and I find it impossible to believe that BG didn't already know this Are the floors downstairs solid or suspended? You could easily miss a modest sized leak there. Years ago, one of my neighbours had a failure of his bathroom grey water drain which created a small lake under the living room, and he only discovered that when he had to take floorboards up for rewiring. Wouldn't that have created a stench? -- Today's woman puts on wigs, fake eyelashes, false fingernails, sixteen pounds of assorted make-up/shadows/blushes/creams, living bras, various pads that would make a linebacker envious, has implants and assorted other surgeries, then complains that she cannot find a "real" man. |
CH leaks
James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 17:38:58 -0000, mechanic wrote: On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 16:13:52 +0000, MrCheerful wrote: The pressure relief pipe would be the most likely, if your loss is from the condensate pipe then the boiler heat exchanger has gone, in which case it is probably time for a new boiler. No drips from the condensation pipe over six hours or so, during which the pressure dropped by about one bar. Our British Gas 'engineer' suggested this to rule out the heat exchanger (apparently no spares of this model now available). I'll check on the insurance cover tomorrow and explore the leak detection company options. Drilling holes in our Amtico flooring or ripping it up together with the plywood substrate doesn't appeal one bit. Re-instating it would cost a small fortune. Is there no way you can at least peer under the floor with a torch and spot water? If he could do this easily he would have done it. He has said that he has very posh flooring and to rip it up would be very expensive. What part of that do you find so difficult to understand? |
CH leaks
On Sunday, 27 November 2016 12:56:07 UTC, mechanic wrote:
We have a problem with pressure loss in our central heating system. I had a cracked heat exchanger. It was a condensing boiler, so the leaked water was simply piped to the drain. So have a look at the condensate discharge (note: *not* the pressure relief pipe - that's entirely different) when the boiler is off. Another alternative, if the boiler is feeding an indirect hot water cylinder, is a leak from primary to secondary within the cylinder. This would be difficult to spot unless the leakage rate is high enough to cause the header tank to overflow, which would happen only if none of the taps in the house are run for an extended period... |
CH leaks
On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 21:28:04 -0000, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:
James Wilkinson Sword wrote: On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 17:38:58 -0000, mechanic wrote: On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 16:13:52 +0000, MrCheerful wrote: The pressure relief pipe would be the most likely, if your loss is from the condensate pipe then the boiler heat exchanger has gone, in which case it is probably time for a new boiler. No drips from the condensation pipe over six hours or so, during which the pressure dropped by about one bar. Our British Gas 'engineer' suggested this to rule out the heat exchanger (apparently no spares of this model now available). I'll check on the insurance cover tomorrow and explore the leak detection company options. Drilling holes in our Amtico flooring or ripping it up together with the plywood substrate doesn't appeal one bit. Re-instating it would cost a small fortune. Is there no way you can at least peer under the floor with a torch and spot water? If he could do this easily he would have done it. He has said that he has very posh flooring and to rip it up would be very expensive. What part of that do you find so difficult to understand? Someone fitting a floor without a trapdoor. My neighbour has such a posh floor, but he fitted it himself and did it properly, with access under the house. Mind you, a decent carpet is much nicer to walk on than wood. -- Keith was explaining to his sister how to jump start a car. "I explained about which cables to hook up where and in what order. She said, 'ok, I got all that, so now, which car do you start first?'" |
CH leaks
On 27/11/2016 21:45, David wrote:
snip Another alternative, if the boiler is feeding an indirect hot water cylinder, is a leak from primary to secondary within the cylinder. This would be difficult to spot unless the leakage rate is high enough to cause the header tank to overflow, which would happen only if none of the taps in the house are run for an extended period... Why would running a tap make any difference? |
CH leaks
On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 13:45:00 -0800 (PST), David wrote:
Another alternative, if the boiler is feeding an indirect hot water cylinder, is a leak from primary to secondary within the cylinder. This would be difficult to spot unless the leakage rate is high enough to cause the header tank to overflow, which would happen only if none of the taps in the house are run for an extended period... Header tank? |
CH leaks
On 27/11/2016 21:59, Fredxxx wrote:
On 27/11/2016 21:45, David wrote: snip Another alternative, if the boiler is feeding an indirect hot water cylinder, is a leak from primary to secondary within the cylinder. This would be difficult to spot unless the leakage rate is high enough to cause the header tank to overflow, which would happen only if none of the taps in the house are run for an extended period... Why would running a tap make any difference? if the hot water store tank is open vented and the heating system is pressurised and leaking into the hot water cylinder then the water level in the supply tank for the hot water tank will rise until the heating system pressure has equalised with the hot tank. It would only be likely to cause an overflow if the heating system was repressurised multiple times without letting any hot water out of the hot water cylinder. |
CH leaks
On 27/11/2016 22:18, mechanic wrote:
On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 13:45:00 -0800 (PST), David wrote: Another alternative, if the boiler is feeding an indirect hot water cylinder, is a leak from primary to secondary within the cylinder. This would be difficult to spot unless the leakage rate is high enough to cause the header tank to overflow, which would happen only if none of the taps in the house are run for an extended period... Header tank? for the non pressurised hot water cylinder. If it was a pressurised cylinder (with an internal leak) then the heating system pressure would rise. |
CH leaks
On 27/11/2016 22:23, MrCheerful wrote:
On 27/11/2016 21:59, Fredxxx wrote: On 27/11/2016 21:45, David wrote: snip Another alternative, if the boiler is feeding an indirect hot water cylinder, is a leak from primary to secondary within the cylinder. This would be difficult to spot unless the leakage rate is high enough to cause the header tank to overflow, which would happen only if none of the taps in the house are run for an extended period... Why would running a tap make any difference? if the hot water store tank is open vented and the heating system is pressurised and leaking into the hot water cylinder then the water level in the supply tank for the hot water tank will rise until the heating system pressure has equalised with the hot tank. It would only be likely to cause an overflow if the heating system was repressurised multiple times without letting any hot water out of the hot water cylinder. Ah - I see what your getting at. Apologies. |
CH leaks
On 27/11/2016 23:02, Fredxxx wrote:
On 27/11/2016 22:23, MrCheerful wrote: On 27/11/2016 21:59, Fredxxx wrote: On 27/11/2016 21:45, David wrote: snip Another alternative, if the boiler is feeding an indirect hot water cylinder, is a leak from primary to secondary within the cylinder. This would be difficult to spot unless the leakage rate is high enough to cause the header tank to overflow, which would happen only if none of the taps in the house are run for an extended period... Why would running a tap make any difference? if the hot water store tank is open vented and the heating system is pressurised and leaking into the hot water cylinder then the water level in the supply tank for the hot water tank will rise until the heating system pressure has equalised with the hot tank. It would only be likely to cause an overflow if the heating system was repressurised multiple times without letting any hot water out of the hot water cylinder. Ah - I see what your getting at. Apologies. I was just explaining it, It wasn't my suggestion, it is an unlikely scenario IMO. A PRV, pressure vessel leak, air release valve or rad or pipe leak, in that order seem much higher possibilities. Particularly if there is underfloor heating then :a pipe leak. |
CH leaks
On Sunday, 27 November 2016 23:08:07 UTC, MrCheerful wrote:
On 27/11/2016 23:02, Fredxxx wrote: On 27/11/2016 22:23, MrCheerful wrote: On 27/11/2016 21:59, Fredxxx wrote: On 27/11/2016 21:45, David wrote: snip Another alternative, if the boiler is feeding an indirect hot water cylinder, is a leak from primary to secondary within the cylinder. This would be difficult to spot unless the leakage rate is high enough to cause the header tank to overflow, which would happen only if none of the taps in the house are run for an extended period... snip it is an unlikely scenario IMO. A PRV, pressure vessel leak, air release valve or rad or pipe leak, in that order seem much higher possibilities. Particularly if there is underfloor heating then :a pipe leak. I agree entirely. From the sound of it, though, the OP (and British Gas) are well on the way to eliminating the likely scenarios, so I thought I'd chip in with something more unlikely :) |
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