On Thursday, November 24, 2016 at 1:01:11 PM UTC, wrote:
On Wednesday, 23 November 2016 13:42:32 UTC, wrote:

Trailing Edge, AKA Reverse Phase Control, RFC is a technical backwater , a patch for retro fit to cover early driver limitations.

cheaper rather than early

RPC dimmers are considerably more complax and costly than forward phase choppers.


LEDs are best dimmed and driven at the driver.

Usually they're best dimmed wherever it's cheapest

Dimming seems usually considered in domestic installls as something of a luxury, cost isn`t a primary consideration.


From article quoted "...adjustable minimum brightness..." isn`t something that`s needed when LEDs can be dimmed to near zero directly at driver.

Dimming the power, whatever way, to the driver will always have aminimum setting below which cannae go.

There are a few ways you can dim RC ballasted LEDs all the way to zero.

If you have one, there is a multi multi million pound market available, unfortunately you cannae change the laws of physics....



If you want to retrofit rather than rewire , major brand dimmable LEDs will now make a reasonable job of dimming to a low level on any phase chopping dimmer.


NT

On Thursday, November 24, 2016 at 4:56:25 PM UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 24 November 2016 16:43:33 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
Low voltage halogen like MR16 not only are more efficient than the
240v equivalant (GU10) but last longer too. As you'd have known if
you'd ever had them.

I was never stupid enough to have them, which is why you rarely see them
as most get them removed. On paper they are more efficinet but most
mount them in ceiling as downlighters where they can;t be cooled
properly so there lifetime seriously reduces. Which is anothe rreason
you don;t see them much now.

Explain how that is relevant between low voltage and mains halogen?

because LV halogen is being replaced because it;s not as good as people thought it was having to use transformers whch usually go placed where you couldn't get to them.

LV halogen is as efficient as halogen gets, light quality knocks even best of LED into a cocked hat.

Your mixing up the horrendous GU10 con with decent MR 16/11 LV downlighters.

GU10, mains voltage MR16, have notoriously poor lamp life, extermely vibration sensitive and rubbish beam control but they looked like nice trendy LV spots but without those hard to understand transformer things.







But thanks for confirming you've never look at them.

I;'m not still using a 25 year-old ASDA products

--
*I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 25/11/16 13:52, wrote:
On Thursday, November 24, 2016 at 1:01:11 PM UTC, wrote:
On Wednesday, 23 November 2016 13:42:32 UTC, wrote:

Trailing Edge, AKA Reverse Phase Control, RFC is a technical backwater , a patch for retro fit to cover early driver limitations.

cheaper rather than early

RPC dimmers are considerably more complax and costly than forward phase choppers.


LEDs are best dimmed and driven at the driver.

Usually they're best dimmed wherever it's cheapest

Dimming seems usually considered in domestic installls as something of a luxury, cost isn`t a primary consideration.


From article quoted "...adjustable minimum brightness..." isn`t something that`s needed when LEDs can be dimmed to near zero directly at driver.

Dimming the power, whatever way, to the driver will always have aminimum setting below which cannae go.

There are a few ways you can dim RC ballasted LEDs all the way to zero.

If you have one, there is a multi multi million pound market available, unfortunately you cannae change the laws of physics....

Don't need to.

Current drivers is all it takes.

Knowing how to drive a diode junction has been part of electronics for
years...








If you want to retrofit rather than rewire , major brand dimmable LEDs will now make a reasonable job of dimming to a low level on any phase chopping dimmer.


NT



--
"Corbyn talks about equality, justice, opportunity, health care, peace,
community, compassion, investment, security, housing...."
"What kind of person is not interested in those things?"

"Jeremy Corbyn?"

On Friday, 25 November 2016 13:52:31 UTC, wrote:
On Thursday, November 24, 2016 at 1:01:11 PM UTC, tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 23 November 2016 13:42:32 UTC, wrote:


Trailing Edge, AKA Reverse Phase Control, RFC is a technical backwater , a patch for retro fit to cover early driver limitations.

cheaper rather than early

RPC dimmers are considerably more complax and costly than forward phase choppers.

cheaper lamps not cheaper dimmers

LEDs are best dimmed and driven at the driver.

Usually they're best dimmed wherever it's cheapest

Dimming seems usually considered in domestic installls as something of a luxury,

yup

cost isn`t a primary consideration.

Cost is why many more aren't sold. Cost is critical for most domestic goods. It's why there's so much difference between domestic & industrial versions of the same thing.


From article quoted "...adjustable minimum brightness..." isn`t something that`s needed when LEDs can be dimmed to near zero directly at driver.

Dimming the power, whatever way, to the driver will always have aminimum setting below which cannae go.

There are a few ways you can dim RC ballasted LEDs all the way to zero.

If you have one, there is a multi multi million pound market available,

Is there? I'm not convinced.

unfortunately you cannae change the laws of physics....

I just need to understand some basic electronics.


NT

On Friday, 25 November 2016 14:11:46 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/11/16 13:52, wrote:
On Thursday, November 24, 2016 at 1:01:11 PM UTC, wrote:
On Wednesday, 23 November 2016 13:42:32 UTC, wrote:

Dimming the power, whatever way, to the driver will always have aminimum setting below which cannae go.

There are a few ways you can dim RC ballasted LEDs all the way to zero.

If you have one, there is a multi multi million pound market available, unfortunately you cannae change the laws of physics....

Don't need to.

Current drivers is all it takes.

Knowing how to drive a diode junction has been part of electronics for
years...

There are several ways to do it.


NT

In article ,
wrote:
On Thursday, November 24, 2016 at 4:56:25 PM UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 24 November 2016 16:43:33 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
Low voltage halogen like MR16 not only are more efficient than
the 240v equivalant (GU10) but last longer too. As you'd have
known if you'd ever had them.

I was never stupid enough to have them, which is why you rarely
see them as most get them removed. On paper they are more
efficinet but most mount them in ceiling as downlighters where
they can;t be cooled properly so there lifetime seriously reduces.
Which is anothe rreason you don;t see them much now.

Explain how that is relevant between low voltage and mains halogen?

because LV halogen is being replaced because it;s not as good as
people thought it was having to use transformers whch usually go
placed where you couldn't get to them.

LV halogen is as efficient as halogen gets, light quality knocks even
best of LED into a cocked hat.

Ah. Someone else has actually noticed this. I was thinking everyone on
here colour blind.

Your mixing up the horrendous GU10 con with decent MR 16/11 LV
downlighters.

Mr Whisky can and does mix up about everything. Really does show what
spirits can do to the brain.

GU10, mains voltage MR16, have notoriously poor lamp life, extermely
vibration sensitive and rubbish beam control but they looked like nice
trendy LV spots but without those hard to understand transformer things.

Yup. Specially made for those who don't understand lighting. And probably
to increase sales of LEDs.

--
*We waste time, so you don't have to *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 25/11/16 14:26, wrote:
On Friday, 25 November 2016 14:11:46 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/11/16 13:52, wrote:
On Thursday, November 24, 2016 at 1:01:11 PM UTC, wrote:
On Wednesday, 23 November 2016 13:42:32 UTC, wrote:

Dimming the power, whatever way, to the driver will always have aminimum setting below which cannae go.

There are a few ways you can dim RC ballasted LEDs all the way to zero.

If you have one, there is a multi multi million pound market available, unfortunately you cannae change the laws of physics....

Don't need to.

Current drivers is all it takes.

Knowing how to drive a diode junction has been part of electronics for
years...

There are several ways to do it.


Indeed. I can think of more than two. None are massively complicated,
but all are more complicated than a pot a cap and a triac.




NT



--
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

Jonathan Swift.

On Friday, 25 November 2016 13:59:02 UTC, wrote:
On Thursday, November 24, 2016 at 4:56:25 PM UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 24 November 2016 16:43:33 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
Low voltage halogen like MR16 not only are more efficient than the
240v equivalant (GU10) but last longer too. As you'd have known if
you'd ever had them.

I was never stupid enough to have them, which is why you rarely see them
as most get them removed. On paper they are more efficinet but most
mount them in ceiling as downlighters where they can;t be cooled
properly so there lifetime seriously reduces. Which is anothe rreason
you don;t see them much now.

Explain how that is relevant between low voltage and mains halogen?

because LV halogen is being replaced because it;s not as good as people thought it was having to use transformers whch usually go placed where you couldn't get to them.

LV halogen is as efficient as halogen gets, light quality knocks even best of LED into a cocked hat.

but not worth putting in if you already have a 240V lighting circiut and all you need is just one or two bulbs replaced every year or so.


Your mixing up the horrendous GU10 con with decent MR 16/11 LV downlighters.

I havent; any MR 16/11 LV downlighters I don;t like downlighters.


GU10, mains voltage MR16, have notoriously poor lamp life, extermely vibration sensitive and rubbish beam control but they looked like nice trendy LV spots but without those hard to understand transformer things.

I don;t want to mount transformers in the loft.

On Friday, 25 November 2016 14:11:46 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/11/16 13:52, wrote:
On Thursday, November 24, 2016 at 1:01:11 PM UTC, wrote:
On Wednesday, 23 November 2016 13:42:32 UTC, wrote:

Trailing Edge, AKA Reverse Phase Control, RFC is a technical backwater , a patch for retro fit to cover early driver limitations.

cheaper rather than early

RPC dimmers are considerably more complax and costly than forward phase choppers.


LEDs are best dimmed and driven at the driver.

Usually they're best dimmed wherever it's cheapest

Dimming seems usually considered in domestic installls as something of a luxury, cost isn`t a primary consideration.


From article quoted "...adjustable minimum brightness..." isn`t something that`s needed when LEDs can be dimmed to near zero directly at driver.

Dimming the power, whatever way, to the driver will always have aminimum setting below which cannae go.

There are a few ways you can dim RC ballasted LEDs all the way to zero.

If you have one, there is a multi multi million pound market available, unfortunately you cannae change the laws of physics....

Don't need to.

Current drivers is all it takes.

Knowing how to drive a diode junction has been part of electronics for
years...

Yes and that is what needs changing NOT thre triac.