The guttering of our house is about 5.5m above the ground. I want a ladder
which will reach that height safely. I've no plans on doing any serious
work up there - I just want to check it because its dripping at the moment
and want to see what the problem might be. I don't want to buy one which
won't reach the highest point I'll need to do (as we don't have a gable end,
the guttering will be the highest point I'll be going!). I also don't
really want to by buying one deliberately longer than I need (ie. I don't
need an additional 1m for stepping onto the roof - I'll leave that work to
pros, plus, I don't have a roof ladder!)

What is the recommended angle for ladders? If I need to reach 5.5m vertical
and the ladder is at the recommended angle - what length (extended) ladder
do I require? I've been looking at 7m+ ones - though I'm wondering whether
6.5m will be sufficient.

The other thing is once I've got the required length I want to find a
suitable supplier. Screwfix seem to do 3 section, non-domestic (ie. 150kg
rather than 95kg limit) 7m ladders for about £130 with free 2 week delivery.
B&Q (if you can find the required one in stock in your local store) is a
similar price (£124 I think according to their website, though delivery
isn't free).

Does anyone have a better/cheaper place to get it from for a similar price?
£130 is the max I'll go to, so please don't suggest scaffold towers etc!
Its for very occasional use and I know the risks of doing things up ladders.


Incidentally, any good places to purchase a standoff unit for the ladder?
Screwfix does one for £29.99 but I've seen one in B&Q for £22.99 made my
Abru. I'm wondering though whether the Abru one will only suit Abru
ladders... Any better/cheaper place to get one?

Thanks

David

In uk.d-i-y, David Hearn wrote:
The guttering of our house is about 5.5m above the ground. I want a ladder
which will reach that height safely. I've no plans on doing any serious
work up there

[ ... ]

What is the recommended angle for ladders? If I need to reach 5.5m vertical
and the ladder is at the recommended angle - what length (extended) ladder
do I require? I've been looking at 7m+ ones - though I'm wondering whether
6.5m will be sufficient.

I'm pretty sure the suggested ratio is 1:4; that's what a moment's Google
with the words "ladder angle safe" produces, too. The less helpful sites
say "75 degrees"; the publications by total morons describe the "correct
angle" as 75.5 degrees as a result of computing acos(0.25), unbelievably!
As if safety is helped by working to tenths of a degree, and as if the
guideline of 1:4 isn't itself a generally-sensible-rule-of-thumb rather
than holy writ. Egads... what kind of semi-numerate non-thinking moron
is it who gets a job writing Safety Leaflets and Safe Working Specifications?

Thus, for a vertical reach of 5.5m, at the 1:4 ratio, Mr Pythagoras says
you'll want a hypotenuse of at least sqrt( 5.5^2 + 1.4^2 ) = 5.7m
(minimally longer than the long side, since at these small angles,
sin(x) is only just a little less than x).

However, the ladder specs may be a little optimistic about the full
extension: to stop it bouncing alarmingly when you reach the middle in
your tapdance up the rungs, you may want a bit more overlap than the
2-3 rungs which full extension is quoted at. So a 6.5m ladder would have
just 0.8m of overlap if two-section; you might prefer the greater rigidity
of the 7m flavour, especially if your physique is closer to "cuddly" than
"boney" ;-)

Incidentally, any good places to purchase a standoff unit for the ladder?

I'm pretty sure the one I have is an Abru (but it's peeing down outside
and I'm certainly not going to go out to the garage in *that*) on a non-Abru
ladder; seem to remember paying about 25quid for it at Focus. *Well* worth
having, IMHO: makes the process of clearing out the gutters or reattaching
downpipes need a lot less contortion, and therefore genuinely usefully
safer (rather than obsessing about the last half a degree of the ladder
angle ;-) I'd also encourage you to stabilise the bottom of the ladder:
sandbags, stakes in softer ground, a rope secured between the base and
something firm at or around the base of the wall, or a charming and
talented assistant to prop his or her size 9s at the foot of the ladder
all reduce the scope for an embarassing and injurious topple. (Time for
the other bit of 0-level maths: how fast will you hit the ground if you
do fall off? Let's say your CofG is 5m above the ground, and let g be
10m per sec per sec; v-squared = 2gs = 100, so you'll be falling at
sqrt(100) = 10m/s which is near as dammit 20mph. Quite fast enough to hurt
and break bones, worse if you're unlucky. So don't fall!)

HTH - Stefek

In message , writes
In uk.d-i-y, David Hearn wrote:
The guttering of our house is about 5.5m above the ground. I want a ladder
which will reach that height safely. I've no plans on doing any serious
work up there

[ ... ]

What is the recommended angle for ladders? If I need to reach 5.5m vertical
and the ladder is at the recommended angle - what length (extended) ladder
do I require? I've been looking at 7m+ ones - though I'm wondering whether
6.5m will be sufficient.

I'm pretty sure the suggested ratio is 1:4; that's what a moment's Google
with the words "ladder angle safe" produces, too. The less helpful sites
say "75 degrees";

Thus, for a vertical reach of 5.5m, at the 1:4 ratio, Mr Pythagoras says
you'll want a hypotenuse of at least sqrt( 5.5^2 + 1.4^2 ) = 5.7m
(minimally longer than the long side, since at these small angles,
sin(x) is only just a little less than x).

However, the ladder specs may be a little optimistic about the full
extension: to stop it bouncing alarmingly when you reach the middle in
your tapdance up the rungs, you may want a bit more overlap than the
2-3 rungs which full extension is quoted at. So a 6.5m ladder would have
just 0.8m of overlap if two-section; you might prefer the greater rigidity
of the 7m flavour, especially if your physique is closer to "cuddly" than
"boney" ;-)

I'd also want to allow for say 1/2 metre above the gutter as something
to hold onto etc. when working.

--
Chris French, Leeds

In article ,
David Hearn wrote:
The guttering of our house is about 5.5m above the ground. I
want a ladder which will reach that height safely.
[big snip]

Our house has similar heights to reach and I have a 24ft
double extending ladder. 24ft is just about adequate but
I wish now that I had bought a longer 3-section ladder.
This would have provided just that extra overlap, and the
shorter single sections could be more useful for other jobs.

Does anyone have a better/cheaper place to get it from for a
similar price? £130 is the max I'll go to,
[snip]

It was about 10 years ago, but I bought mine out of E&M,
straight from the mfrs, someone in Cardiff AFAIR. Full
spec professional, big wide treads, not that expensive.
Price included delivery. The mfr also made matching
safety accessories.

--
Tony Williams.

chris French wrote:
In message ,
writes
In uk.d-i-y, David Hearn wrote:
The guttering of our house is about 5.5m above the ground. I want
a ladder which will reach that height safely. I've no plans on
doing any serious work up there

[ ... ]

What is the recommended angle for ladders? If I need to reach 5.5m
vertical and the ladder is at the recommended angle - what length
(extended) ladder do I require? I've been looking at 7m+ ones -
though I'm wondering whether
6.5m will be sufficient.

I'm pretty sure the suggested ratio is 1:4; that's what a moment's
Google with the words "ladder angle safe" produces, too. The less
helpful sites say "75 degrees";

Thus, for a vertical reach of 5.5m, at the 1:4 ratio, Mr Pythagoras
says you'll want a hypotenuse of at least sqrt( 5.5^2 + 1.4^2 ) =
5.7m (minimally longer than the long side, since at these small
angles,
sin(x) is only just a little less than x).

However, the ladder specs may be a little optimistic about the full
extension: to stop it bouncing alarmingly when you reach the middle
in your tapdance up the rungs, you may want a bit more overlap than
the 2-3 rungs which full extension is quoted at. So a 6.5m ladder
would have just 0.8m of overlap if two-section; you might prefer the
greater rigidity of the 7m flavour, especially if your physique is
closer to "cuddly" than "boney" ;-)

I'd also want to allow for say 1/2 metre above the gutter as something
to hold onto etc. when working.

So the 7m+ 3 section ladder is likely to be just right, with any excess
being able to allow more overlap and less bounce.... I'm certainly not
'boney' and just on the limit for domestic ladders (without wearing shoes or
carrying tools!) so I'll listen to your advice.

Thanks

David

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 00:59:04 +0000, chris French
wrote:

I'd also want to allow for say 1/2 metre above the gutter as something
to hold onto etc. when working.

This topic reminds me of a situation a few years ago.....

I worked on the 2nd floor of an office building, and the ceilings were
quite high on each floor. I don't know how high off the ground this
was, but it looked high enough to me to fully deploy a parachute on
the way down.

One day a ladder appeared at the window - it was high enough to reach
the bottom of the window, but not the top. A few seconds later a chap
reaches the top of the ladder, and stands on the top couple of rungs
without any support at all to clean the windows. Then back down again.

I watched him do other windows around the building and felt quite
sick, I don't like heights. As he went up and down that ladder (at
breakneck speed in my opinion - quite literally!) the thing was
bouncing back and forth like the infamous Millennium bridge on
steroids.

I don't know how people can do this sort of job!

PoP

If you really must use the email address provided
with my newsreader please be aware that the email
is processed with spamcop. As a result your email
to me might be treated as spam!

Sir

Ladders are a pain, you have to find somewhwre to store them, where the local torags won't use them to break into your house.
If you only want it for occasional use, why don'y you check out the local hire shop. a 9m ladder from my local shop is 13.30 a weekend.

In my experieence the hire shop won't let you hire unsuitable equipment, and they have the top quality idiot proff stuff.

Rick


On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 23:22:06 -0000, "David Hearn" wrote:
The guttering of our house is about 5.5m above the ground. I want a ladder
which will reach that height safely. I've no plans on doing any serious
work up there - I just want to check it because its dripping at the moment
and want to see what the problem might be. I don't want to buy one which
won't reach the highest point I'll need to do (as we don't have a gable end,
the guttering will be the highest point I'll be going!). I also don't
really want to by buying one deliberately longer than I need (ie. I don't
need an additional 1m for stepping onto the roof - I'll leave that work to
pros, plus, I don't have a roof ladder!)

What is the recommended angle for ladders? If I need to reach 5.5m vertical
and the ladder is at the recommended angle - what length (extended) ladder
do I require? I've been looking at 7m+ ones - though I'm wondering whether
6.5m will be sufficient.

The other thing is once I've got the required length I want to find a
suitable supplier. Screwfix seem to do 3 section, non-domestic (ie. 150kg
rather than 95kg limit) 7m ladders for about £130 with free 2 week delivery.
B&Q (if you can find the required one in stock in your local store) is a
similar price (£124 I think according to their website, though delivery
isn't free).

Does anyone have a better/cheaper place to get it from for a similar price?
£130 is the max I'll go to, so please don't suggest scaffold towers etc!
Its for very occasional use and I know the risks of doing things up ladders.


Incidentally, any good places to purchase a standoff unit for the ladder?
Screwfix does one for £29.99 but I've seen one in B&Q for £22.99 made my
Abru. I'm wondering though whether the Abru one will only suit Abru
ladders... Any better/cheaper place to get one?

Thanks

David

True - though we have a very long garage to store the ladders in. If they
break into that then they'd have a lot of tools to be able to drill out the
locks if they wanted - so I'm not too worried about storing ladders in it.

As for hiring - I've put off getting a ladder for a while and have a number
of jobs I want to do and they always seem to come to mind either in the
evenings or at weekends and usually would only take less than an hour to do.
Hiring one each time something came up (or continuing to put them off until
I had enough to justify hiring one) would be a pain for me.

Thanks though for the advice, I hadn't actually thought of hiring one and it
may be something worth considering.

D

Rick Dipper wrote:
Sir

Ladders are a pain, you have to find somewhwre to store them, where
the local torags won't use them to break into your house.
If you only want it for occasional use, why don'y you check out the
local hire shop. a 9m ladder from my local shop is 13.30 a weekend.

In my experieence the hire shop won't let you hire unsuitable
equipment, and they have the top quality idiot proff stuff.

Rick


On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 23:22:06 -0000, "David Hearn"
wrote:
The guttering of our house is about 5.5m above the ground. I want a
ladder which will reach that height safely. I've no plans on doing
any serious work up there - I just want to check it because its
dripping at the moment and want to see what the problem might be. I
don't want to buy one which won't reach the highest point I'll need
to do (as we don't have a gable end, the guttering will be the
highest point I'll be going!). I also don't really want to by
buying one deliberately longer than I need (ie. I don't need an
additional 1m for stepping onto the roof - I'll leave that work to
pros, plus, I don't have a roof ladder!)

What is the recommended angle for ladders? If I need to reach 5.5m
vertical and the ladder is at the recommended angle - what length
(extended) ladder do I require? I've been looking at 7m+ ones -
though I'm wondering whether
6.5m will be sufficient.

The other thing is once I've got the required length I want to find a
suitable supplier. Screwfix seem to do 3 section, non-domestic (ie.
150kg rather than 95kg limit) 7m ladders for about £130 with free 2
week delivery. B&Q (if you can find the required one in stock in
your local store) is a similar price (£124 I think according to
their website, though delivery isn't free).

Does anyone have a better/cheaper place to get it from for a similar
price? £130 is the max I'll go to, so please don't suggest scaffold
towers etc! Its for very occasional use and I know the risks of
doing things up ladders.

Incidentally, any good places to purchase a standoff unit for the
ladder? Screwfix does one for £29.99 but I've seen one in B&Q for
£22.99 made my Abru. I'm wondering though whether the Abru one will
only suit Abru ladders... Any better/cheaper place to get one?

Thanks

David

Tony Williams wrote in message ...
Our house has similar heights to reach and I have a 24ft
double extending ladder. 24ft is just about adequate but
I wish now that I had bought a longer 3-section ladder.
This would have provided just that extra overlap, and the
shorter single sections could be more useful for other jobs.
Mine's 3x10ft. Just over £100 from a local ladder shop. Easy to carry and
push up to a decent height (unlike the hired ones). I use the Abru stand off
for most jobs. Creates a better working position and, with a plank across,
gives you a useful shelf. Fix a length of 2" x 2" to the stand off and you
can work comfortably above window openings.

"David Hearn" wrote in message ...
The guttering of our house is about 5.5m above the ground. I want a ladder
which will reach that height safely. I've no plans on doing any serious

snip

Just to add to the sensible advice others have given...

Another consideration for whether to pick a 2 or 3 section ladder is
the difficulty of extending a long two-section ladder; either you
extend it to full length along the ground and then stand it up and
lean it on the wall without it falling over; or you do what the pros
do, lean it up unextended, push the upper ladder up as high as you can
reach, then start climbing... you have to kind of pull the ladder off
the wall and while balancing, push the upper ladder up another rung
before it falls back against the wall, so you walk it up the wall rung
by rung to full height. Not recommended! Alternatively you buy a
meg-bucks ladder with built-in ropes and pulleys.

Another good way of securing an erected ladder is to position it over
an upstairs window; hold a thick horizontal batten over the window
inside the room and tie this to the nearest rung of the ladder with a
rope. You'll need to climb the ladder to attach it, whereupon it will
usually start bowing under your weight - so if make the rope taut at
that point it will stop the ladder bouncing as you climb up and down,
and make it very secure.

I'd recommend you look at Wickes - they have a large range, reasonably
priced.

David

Lobster wrote:
"David Hearn" wrote in message
...
The guttering of our house is about 5.5m above the ground. I want a
ladder which will reach that height safely. I've no plans on doing
any serious

snip

Just to add to the sensible advice others have given...

Another consideration for whether to pick a 2 or 3 section ladder is
the difficulty of extending a long two-section ladder; either you
extend it to full length along the ground and then stand it up and
lean it on the wall without it falling over; or you do what the pros
do, lean it up unextended, push the upper ladder up as high as you can
reach, then start climbing... you have to kind of pull the ladder off
the wall and while balancing, push the upper ladder up another rung
before it falls back against the wall, so you walk it up the wall rung
by rung to full height. Not recommended! Alternatively you buy a
meg-bucks ladder with built-in ropes and pulleys.

Another good way of securing an erected ladder is to position it over
an upstairs window; hold a thick horizontal batten over the window
inside the room and tie this to the nearest rung of the ladder with a
rope. You'll need to climb the ladder to attach it, whereupon it will
usually start bowing under your weight - so if make the rope taut at
that point it will stop the ladder bouncing as you climb up and down,
and make it very secure.

I'd recommend you look at Wickes - they have a large range, reasonably
priced.

Ahh, Wickes - didn't think of that.

Thanks

David

David Hearn wrote:
True - though we have a very long garage to store the ladders in. If
they break into that then they'd have a lot of tools to be able to
drill out the locks if they wanted - so I'm not too worried about
storing ladders in it.

As for hiring - I've put off getting a ladder for a while and have a
number of jobs I want to do and they always seem to come to mind
either in the evenings or at weekends and usually would only take
less than an hour to do. Hiring one each time something came up (or
continuing to put them off until I had enough to justify hiring one)
would be a pain for me.

Thanks though for the advice, I hadn't actually thought of hiring one
and it may be something worth considering.

None of my neighbours have ladders but I do.
Allour gutters regularly need cleaning out because of all the sodding trees
we have around here.
I don't formally charge them to do it but its known that I'm partial to wine
or whiskey :-)
They'd pay the window cleaner 20 quid to do it but his ladder won't reach..

Lobster wrote:
"David Hearn" wrote in message
...
The guttering of our house is about 5.5m above the ground. I want a
ladder
which will reach that height safely. I've no plans on doing any
serious

snip

Just to add to the sensible advice others have given...

Another consideration for whether to pick a 2 or 3 section ladder is
the difficulty of extending a long two-section ladder; either you
extend it to full length along the ground and then stand it up and
lean it on the wall without it falling over; or you do what the pros
do, lean it up unextended, push the upper ladder up as high as you can
reach, then start climbing... you have to kind of pull the ladder off
the wall and while balancing, push the upper ladder up another rung
before it falls back against the wall, so you walk it up the wall rung
by rung to full height. Not recommended! Alternatively you buy a
meg-bucks ladder with built-in ropes and pulleys.

Another good way of securing an erected ladder is to position it over
an upstairs window; hold a thick horizontal batten over the window
inside the room and tie this to the nearest rung of the ladder with a
rope. You'll need to climb the ladder to attach it, whereupon it will
usually start bowing under your weight - so if make the rope taut at
that point it will stop the ladder bouncing as you climb up and down,
and make it very secure.
Don't do what one guy did. He threw rope over roof and tied it to car
towball.
He used rope to hold onto while he walked up roof.
Wife did not know and drove car off pulling hubby over roof to ground,
killing him.
...... maybe wife did know really..

(Lobster) wrote in message . com...
"David Hearn" wrote in message ...
The guttering of our house is about 5.5m above the ground. I want a ladder
which will reach that height safely. I've no plans on doing any serious

snip

Just to add to the sensible advice others have given...

Another consideration for whether to pick a 2 or 3 section ladder is
the difficulty of extending a long two-section ladder; either you
extend it to full length along the ground and then stand it up and
lean it on the wall without it falling over; or you do what the pros
do, lean it up unextended, push the upper ladder up as high as you can
reach, then start climbing... you have to kind of pull the ladder off
the wall and while balancing, push the upper ladder up another rung
before it falls back against the wall, so you walk it up the wall rung
by rung to full height. Not recommended! Alternatively you buy a
meg-bucks ladder with built-in ropes and pulleys.

Another good way of securing an erected ladder is to position it over
an upstairs window; hold a thick horizontal batten over the window
inside the room and tie this to the nearest rung of the ladder with a
rope. You'll need to climb the ladder to attach it, whereupon it will
usually start bowing under your weight - so if make the rope taut at
that point it will stop the ladder bouncing as you climb up and down,
and make it very secure.

I'd recommend you look at Wickes - they have a large range, reasonably
priced.

David


TB Davis in Cardiff supplies.
In the back of the catalogue is a chart to work out what length of
ladder for what height. I'm looking at a 3 peice with 10m height for a
8m wall.

www.ladders-online.com or www.ladder-pro.co.uk

biscuit wrote:
(Lobster) wrote in message
. com...
"David Hearn" wrote in message
...
The guttering of our house is about 5.5m above the ground. I want
a ladder which will reach that height safely. I've no plans on
doing any serious

snip

Just to add to the sensible advice others have given...

Another consideration for whether to pick a 2 or 3 section ladder is
the difficulty of extending a long two-section ladder; either you
extend it to full length along the ground and then stand it up and
lean it on the wall without it falling over; or you do what the pros
do, lean it up unextended, push the upper ladder up as high as you
can
reach, then start climbing... you have to kind of pull the ladder off
the wall and while balancing, push the upper ladder up another rung
before it falls back against the wall, so you walk it up the wall
rung
by rung to full height. Not recommended! Alternatively you buy a
meg-bucks ladder with built-in ropes and pulleys.

Another good way of securing an erected ladder is to position it over
an upstairs window; hold a thick horizontal batten over the window
inside the room and tie this to the nearest rung of the ladder with a
rope. You'll need to climb the ladder to attach it, whereupon it
will
usually start bowing under your weight - so if make the rope taut at
that point it will stop the ladder bouncing as you climb up and down,
and make it very secure.

I'd recommend you look at Wickes - they have a large range,
reasonably
priced.

David


TB Davis in Cardiff supplies.
In the back of the catalogue is a chart to work out what length of
ladder for what height. I'm looking at a 3 peice with 10m height for a
8m wall.

www.ladders-online.com or www.ladder-pro.co.uk

Thanks for that link - a 7.x m 3 section ladder is only £111.63 there,
compared to £129.99 at Screwfix. A standoff is £21 there compared to £29 at
Screwfix (or £23 at B&Q). And that includes VAT and delivery. Both are
BSEN131 so are comparing like for like.

D