I'm looking to buy a router, but not sure what to go for. The project I need
the tool for is building 4 speaker cabinets out of 18/25mm MDF. I was looking
at the B&Q Performance Power Pro 1/2" CLM2050R Router 2050W

http://www.diy.com/bq/product/produc...5&CATID=159246

It's just under £100. It's a tool that I'll use occasionally so I don't
really need the likes of makita at nearer £200.

Does anyone have any experience of this model? It seems to be pretty
well put together, not as nice as the Makita, but it does not feel cheap
and nasty. Should I be looking at other makes? (Screwfix Ebauer for the same
sort of price, but with no cutters)

Cheers

Neil

In article ,
wrote:

I'm looking to buy a router, but not sure what to go for. The project I need
the tool for is building 4 speaker cabinets out of 18/25mm MDF.

Just an aside... I take it that you understand the technical requirements of
loudspeaker enclosures, resonant frequencies etc?

--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 12:48:39 GMT, wrote:

I'm looking to buy a router, but not sure what to go for. The project I need
the tool for is building 4 speaker cabinets out of 18/25mm MDF. I was looking
at the B&Q Performance Power Pro 1/2" CLM2050R Router 2050W

http://www.diy.com/bq/product/produc...5&CATID=159246

It's just under £100. It's a tool that I'll use occasionally so I don't
really need the likes of makita at nearer £200.

Does anyone have any experience of this model? It seems to be pretty
well put together, not as nice as the Makita, but it does not feel cheap
and nasty. Should I be looking at other makes? (Screwfix Ebauer for the same
sort of price, but with no cutters)


This one came up a few months ago and ISTR that someone had bought one
and needed to take it back because the speed control didn't work
properly.

I wouldn't be influenced by whether cutters are included in the
package because they are always at the poor end of the quality range.
You would be better off buying a lower end router and some decent
cutters like CMT or Freud for it.

If you are only going to buy one router, then I would go for a 1/2"
one as you have thought, but practice a bit first because they are
heavier.

I did see one of Axminster's £99 own brand routers being demonstrated
at their recent tool show and that seemed to be doing a respectable
job. I didn't have an opprtunity to use it though....



Cheers

Neil

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

It looks like quite a good one for what you want to use it for but before
you buy go and have a look at it and make sure that it has a on button that
can be pushed into a permanent on, I have a Bosch router which is enough for
what I use it for but whilst being on site have used other makes but the on
button only works whilst it is depressed which can make operating the
machine ackward and possibly dangerous.
good luck and happy woodworking.

--
Yours
Jason

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 12:48:39 GMT, wrote:

I'm looking to buy a router, but not sure what to go for. The project I need
the tool for is building 4 speaker cabinets out of 18/25mm MDF. I was looking
at the B&Q Performance Power Pro 1/2" CLM2050R Router 2050W

http://www.diy.com/bq/product/produc...5&CATID=159246

It's just under £100. It's a tool that I'll use occasionally so I don't
really need the likes of makita at nearer £200.

That router is a pile of ****e. I bought one thinking it was a 2050
Watt router. It certainly wasn't. Performance wise I'd have said maybe
equivalent to 800W.

I did one kitchen worktop with it. It struggled taking more than a
couple of mm out of the worktop. The vertical lock was absolute crap -
it did not hold the router at the locked depth at all - as you moved
along the workpiece it gradually dragged down into the work.

An awful piece of ****e - one of the worst tool purchases I ever made.
I took it back to B&Q and bought a Trend T9 instead. Now that's what I
call a mans router

PoP

"Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
wrote:

I'm looking to buy a router, but not sure what to go for. The project I
need
the tool for is building 4 speaker cabinets out of 18/25mm MDF.

Just an aside... I take it that you understand the technical requirements
of
loudspeaker enclosures, resonant frequencies etc?

Are they Job Public's requirements or just audiophiles requirements?

D

"PoP" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 12:48:39 GMT, wrote:

I'm looking to buy a router, but not sure what to go for. The project I need
the tool for is building 4 speaker cabinets out of 18/25mm MDF. I was looking
at the B&Q Performance Power Pro 1/2" CLM2050R Router 2050W

http://www.diy.com/bq/product/produc...5&CATID=159246

It's just under £100. It's a tool that I'll use occasionally so I don't
really need the likes of makita at nearer £200.

That router is a pile of ****e. I bought one thinking it was a 2050
Watt router. It certainly wasn't. Performance wise I'd have said maybe
equivalent to 800W.

I did one kitchen worktop with it. It struggled taking more than a
couple of mm out of the worktop. The vertical lock was absolute crap -
it did not hold the router at the locked depth at all - as you moved
along the workpiece it gradually dragged down into the work.

An awful piece of ****e - one of the worst tool purchases I ever made.
I took it back to B&Q and bought a Trend T9 instead. Now that's what I
call a mans router

I spent ages trying to decide whether or not to buy a Power Pro router to do my
kitchen worktop. In the end I hired an Hitachi. Your post make me glad of that
decision.

Michael Chare

In article ,
David Hearn wrote:
Are they Job Public's requirements or just audiophiles requirements?

Joe Public wouldn't bother making speakers - you can buy them ready made
cheaper.

--
*Can vegetarians eat animal crackers?

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

"Dave Plowman" wrote in message
...
In article ,
David Hearn wrote:
Are they Job Public's requirements or just audiophiles requirements?

Joe Public wouldn't bother making speakers - you can buy them ready made
cheaper.

Possibly Joe Public may want to make speaker cabinets to fit in with
furniture etc? I'd have expected an audiophile to have known how/what to do
when making speakers if they wanted to make something special.

D

wrote in message
...
I'm looking to buy a router, but not sure what to go for. The project I
need
the tool for is building 4 speaker cabinets out of 18/25mm MDF. I was
looking
at the B&Q Performance Power Pro 1/2" CLM2050R Router 2050W

http://www.diy.com/bq/product/produc...5&CATID=159246

It's just under £100. It's a tool that I'll use occasionally so I don't
really need the likes of makita at nearer £200.

Does anyone have any experience of this model? It seems to be pretty
well put together, not as nice as the Makita, but it does not feel cheap
and nasty. Should I be looking at other makes? (Screwfix Ebauer for the
same
sort of price, but with no cutters)



I bought a TREND T5, this takes 1/4" and 8mm .......... I buy all my
cutters in 8mm now, find this size ideal for all work I can do - much
stronger than 1/4"

TREND seems a very good machine, and easy enough for hand held tasks.

Rick

David Hearn wrote:

"Dave Plowman" wrote in message
...

In article ,
David Hearn wrote:

Are they Job Public's requirements or just audiophiles requirements?

Joe Public wouldn't bother making speakers - you can buy them ready made
cheaper.


Possibly Joe Public may want to make speaker cabinets to fit in with
furniture etc? I'd have expected an audiophile to have known how/what to do
when making speakers if they wanted to make something special.


Audiphiles select their furniture to match their speakers. They don't
build speakers.



D

David Hemmings wrote:

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 20:10:48 -0000, "David Hearn"
wrote:


"Dave Plowman" wrote in message
...

In article ,
David Hearn wrote:

Are they Job Public's requirements or just audiophiles requirements?

Joe Public wouldn't bother making speakers - you can buy them ready made
cheaper.

Possibly Joe Public may want to make speaker cabinets to fit in with
furniture etc? I'd have expected an audiophile to have known how/what to do
when making speakers if they wanted to make something special.

D


Get a book on DIY speaker making

No really, do get a book, otherwise there is a very high probability
you will come a cropper and the whole thing will sound really dire.



Nah. Don't worry. I have built many speakers over the years. All the
******** about bass resonance is so much ******** really. You get a bit
of extra woofle from teh bass end if you tune he cabinets, but it makes
less difference than standing the final units on a couple of bricks does.


Use halwat decent crossovers, very decent drive units, and a **** off
solid box, with or without a port, (you may want to brace the box
internally to stop the sides flapping)and fill it with rockwool, and you
are probably already better than the rubbish the audiophiles buy.

Part from the bass end, its all down to good quality drive units with
BIG magnets and decent domes/coils/cones or whatever. In the bass, the
cabinet makes a bit of difference, and bigger is better really.



e.g.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...748531-9846830

obviously expensive, but i only did 1 search in amazon, also try the
local library.

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 18:47:59 +0000 (UTC), "Michael Chare"
wrote:

I spent ages trying to decide whether or not to buy a Power Pro router to do my
kitchen worktop. In the end I hired an Hitachi. Your post make me glad of that
decision.

I made an error of judgement with that Power Pro router. It may
possibly consume 2050 watts of power - I couldn't say. But for sure it
does not produce that level of power at the business end. As I said
previously, 800 watts maybe.

Having said that, I have bought other Power Pro tools from B&Q and
been happy with them. I recently bought a fairly substantial Power Pro
router table which I'm happy with for example. But that router sucks
big time.

PoP

PoP wrote in
:


An awful piece of ****e - one of the worst tool purchases I ever made.
I took it back to B&Q and ...

And so is the 1250W one. Awful plunge. Dreadful threads on the collets.
Lousy switch. Poor depth control. Awkward rotation stop mechanism. Very
limited plunge depth. Almost unusable with the perspex cover in place.

Still - got me out of a hole. Needed a router that could manage a bit more
than my 1/4" cheapie. Bought one of these. Used it and then returned
because of the above. Ideally, it would have been good enough to keep
(and I did originally intend to do so) as I have a number of upcoming uses
which don't really warrant the cost of a decent 1/2" one but would overtax
my current one.

Rod

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 22:07:16 +0000, PoP
wrote:

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 18:47:59 +0000 (UTC), "Michael Chare"
wrote:

I spent ages trying to decide whether or not to buy a Power Pro router to do my
kitchen worktop. In the end I hired an Hitachi. Your post make me glad of that
decision.

I made an error of judgement with that Power Pro router. It may
possibly consume 2050 watts of power - I couldn't say. But for sure it
does not produce that level of power at the business end. As I said
previously, 800 watts maybe.

... and for a router table something powerful is generally needed.

AIUI, the Trend products are made in the same (Italian I believe)
factory that produces the DeWalt and CMT products.

The appearance is very similar and items like collets and other
accessories interchangeable.


Having said that, I have bought other Power Pro tools from B&Q and
been happy with them. I recently bought a fairly substantial Power Pro
router table which I'm happy with for example. But that router sucks
big time.

PoP

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 18:47:59 +0000 (UTC), "Michael Chare"
wrote:

I spent ages trying to decide whether or not to buy a Power Pro
router to do my kitchen worktop. In the end I hired an Hitachi.
Your post make me glad of that decision.

I made an error of judgement with that Power Pro router. It may
possibly consume 2050 watts of power - I couldn't say. But for sure
it does not produce that level of power at the business end. As I
said previously, 800 watts maybe.


Can't comment on the power level - the one I bought back in the summer was
dead on arrival *and* the plunge lock didn't lock. Back it went to B&Q for a
refund - I didn't feel like risking a replacement!
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is Black Hole!

"Michael Chare" wrote in message ...
"PoP" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 12:48:39 GMT, wrote:

I'm looking to buy a router, but not sure what to go for. The project I need
the tool for is building 4 speaker cabinets out of 18/25mm MDF. I was looking
at the B&Q Performance Power Pro 1/2" CLM2050R Router 2050W

http://www.diy.com/bq/product/produc...5&CATID=159246

It's just under £100. It's a tool that I'll use occasionally so I don't
really need the likes of makita at nearer £200.

That router is a pile of ****e. I bought one thinking it was a 2050
Watt router. It certainly wasn't. Performance wise I'd have said maybe
equivalent to 800W.

I did one kitchen worktop with it. It struggled taking more than a
couple of mm out of the worktop. The vertical lock was absolute crap -
it did not hold the router at the locked depth at all - as you moved
along the workpiece it gradually dragged down into the work.

An awful piece of ****e - one of the worst tool purchases I ever made.
I took it back to B&Q and bought a Trend T9 instead. Now that's what I
call a mans router

I spent ages trying to decide whether or not to buy a Power Pro router to do my
kitchen worktop. In the end I hired an Hitachi. Your post make me glad of that
decision.

Michael Chare


I got one from Do It All a couple of weeks ago from their EXCEL range,
1/2" collet + smaller sizes, 1050W motor and 10 bits. I can't remember
what the normal price is but got it on one of their 50% off
everything promotions and it came in less than £30.

I've used it a couple of times and it's OK for what I needed it for.
If you want quality I'd go for a known brand but if you want something
to use a couple of times a year then pay yer money and take yer
choice.

One downer with it is the fence is a bit flimsy - also to fit it back
in the plastic case you have to totally dismantle the fence!

Oh, and it comes with a spare set of motor brushes don't know if thats
a good thing or not!

good luck

Kev

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 12:48:39 GMT, wrote:

I'm looking to buy a router, but not sure what to go for.

I'd suggest a 1/4" Power Devil (because it;'s cheap) and then a 1/2"
Freud (£170), _if_ and when you need it. I'm very unimpressed by 1/2"
routers in the £100 region, and there's nothing you get for over £200
that the Freud doesn't do.

Cheap 1/4" routers are useful, even when you have a biggie too.
They're lightweight, and they're handy for running a quick roundover
or something where you take the machine to the job. You'll grow out of
such a router, and you might chose to buy something better later on.
But you'll get your money's worth, you'll keep using it afterwards,
and it'll give you a better idea for what to buy next time.

The bigger 1/4" Ferm (£36 from Screwfix) might be worth a look too.

--
Smert' spamionam

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Possibly Joe Public may want to make speaker cabinets to fit in with
furniture etc? I'd have expected an audiophile to have known how/what to do
when making speakers if they wanted to make something special.


Audiphiles select their furniture to match their speakers. They don't
build speakers.

True audiophiles don't give a toss what the speakers look like. And don't
know what furniture is. ;-)

--
*Real women don't have hot flashes, they have power surges.

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 00:33:40 +0000, Andy Dingley
wrote:

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 12:48:39 GMT, wrote:

I'm looking to buy a router, but not sure what to go for.

I'd suggest a 1/4" Power Devil (because it;'s cheap) and then a 1/2"
Freud (£170), _if_ and when you need it. I'm very unimpressed by 1/2"
routers in the £100 region, and there's nothing you get for over £200
that the Freud doesn't do.

Cheap 1/4" routers are useful, even when you have a biggie too.
They're lightweight, and they're handy for running a quick roundover
or something where you take the machine to the job. You'll grow out of
such a router, and you might chose to buy something better later on.
But you'll get your money's worth, you'll keep using it afterwards,
and it'll give you a better idea for what to buy next time.

The bigger 1/4" Ferm (£36 from Screwfix) might be worth a look too.

Do you think that the Freud would be a reasonable purchase to be
fitted permanently in a router table, Andy?

I'm getting fed up with taking others in and out. Is there a fine
height adjustment on it suitable for this application?



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

wrote in message
...
I'm looking to buy a router, but not sure what to go for. The project I
need
the tool for is building 4 speaker cabinets out of 18/25mm MDF. I was
looking
at the B&Q Performance Power Pro 1/2" CLM2050R Router 2050W

http://www.diy.com/bq/product/produc...5&CATID=159246

It's just under £100. It's a tool that I'll use occasionally so I don't
really need the likes of makita at nearer £200.

Does anyone have any experience of this model? It seems to be pretty
well put together, not as nice as the Makita, but it does not feel cheap
and nasty. Should I be looking at other makes? (Screwfix Ebauer for the
same
sort of price, but with no cutters)

Cheers

Neil

I had bad experiences with a 'generic' Chinese made router from Homebase.

Returned two because the height stop was bent, and concluded this was a
design fault - they were all shipped with the router in 'plunge' position
which bent the highest stop.

These routers (many of the 'branded' ones) look like a cheap Chineese copy
of an older Trend.

I finally bought a B&D router which was on special offer - paid between £30
and £40 for it IIRC.

This seems much better engineered and has met my modest needs so far.

The cheap router bit set I got from B&Q is O.K. to learn on, but a good bit
(e.g. from Trend) would be a worthwhile investment for a quality finish.
However these tend to cost up to £30 each depending on size and complexity,
so brace yourself for paying as much or more for the bits as you do for the
router.

HTH
Dave R

In article , David Hearn
wrote:

Are they Job Public's requirements or just audiophiles requirements?

Joe Public's. If the enclosure is wrong, it will sound worse than the
cheapest and nastiest commercial ones.

--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk

Andy Hall wrote:

Do you think that the Freud would be a reasonable purchase to be
fitted permanently in a router table, Andy?

I'm getting fed up with taking others in and out. Is there a fine
height adjustment on it suitable for this application?

That is where my Freud spends most of its life...

Yes its actually very good in the table. The fine height adjuster is
built in, and is a large and substantial control that is easy to use.
The speed controller is good as well - it goes down low enough to make
it safe using big cutters, and it has feedback control - so the speed
stays constant even under load. (one implication of this is you can't
use the sound of the motor note to judge the cutting load - hence you
have to think more carefully about exactly what you are asking from it!)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article , wrote:
I'm looking to buy a router, but not sure what to go for. The project I need
the tool for is building 4 speaker cabinets out of 18/25mm MDF. I was looking
at the B&Q Performance Power Pro 1/2" CLM2050R Router 2050W

Thanks for the useful info. Looks like I need to spend more than £100 to get
good enough quality. At least I know that now and I'll look out for a better
make.

As for my speakers, I do know what I'm doing :-)
3 way active left and right, 2 way active centre and active subwoofer. I
consider this to be the best book on speaker design (in you don't mind graphs
and a bit of maths)..

http://www.audioxpress.com/bksprods/books/bkaa60.htm

Cheers

Neil

Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) wrote:

In article , David Hearn
wrote:


Are they Job Public's requirements or just audiophiles requirements?


Joe Public's. If the enclosure is wrong, it will sound worse than the
cheapest and nastiest commercial ones.



Its very hard to get it THAT wrong. Snce cheap and nasty comercial
enclusres are basically little more than cardboard boxes, sometimes with
a hole in..

Anything buigger and more solid will sound better. There is little
mystery to it all. The trick is to suppress back radiation from te
units. This is easy at high frequencies, harder at low. As a compromose
between gian encluosres and prcaticality, it is conventional to flip the
read radioatio and delay it via a tined pipe by half a wavelength at
around teh lowest frequency the bass unit can muster. This then gives a
minor resonant peak - that can be adusted by varying teh vent
diomensions and teh internal wadding in the speaker - that gives about
half an octave more bass resposne typically.

And that Is ALL there is to it. All teh super bull**** designs are
ways to do this in varyng dgerees. However the best way is to get a big
enclusre and a decent driver. Full stop.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:


Audiphiles select their furniture to match their speakers. They don't
build speakers.

Surely Audiphiles "fiddle" with German cars?

--
http://gymratz.co.uk
The Worlds No1 Fitness & Gym Equipment/nutrition specialists.
http://www.water-rower.co.uk
The ultimate rowing simulator.

wrote:

I'm looking to buy a router, but not sure what to go for. The project I need
the tool for is building 4 speaker cabinets out of 18/25mm MDF. I was looking
at the B&Q Performance Power Pro 1/2" CLM2050R Router 2050W

It's just under £100. It's a tool that I'll use occasionally so I don't
really need the likes of makita at nearer £200.

Argos have a 1/4" 8mm 1/2" JCB router at £39:99 at the moment, cheaper and no
probs returning if it fails inside a year.

Niel.

surely the danger is it being permanently on ?

The problem is that it effectively removes one of your hands, as it is
wasted by keeping the machine on, a task that a latching switch could do
quite adequetely, giving you the safety benefit of being able to control the
machine better.

Christian.

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 23:41:08 -0000, "Set Square"
wrote:

Can't comment on the power level - the one I bought back in the summer was
dead on arrival *and* the plunge lock didn't lock. Back it went to B&Q for a
refund - I didn't feel like risking a replacement!

That was an interesting design feature of the one I took back as well.
I've never seen a sliding plunge lock on a router before!

No matter how hard I pressed the plunge lock down the router still
decided it was only an advisory feature and that I really wanted the
router to make up its own mind about how deep to cut.....

Pile of ****e.

PoP

On 16 Dec 2003 16:20:18 -0800, (Kev Parkin) wrote:

Oh, and it comes with a spare set of motor brushes don't know if thats
a good thing or not!

I have an Excel SDS drill, and also an Excel circular saw. Both came
with spare motor brushes - I think it's a feature of the range.
Doesn't bother me - I think I read somewhere that the brushes are
changed after about 50 hours of continuous use - and if I get anywhere
near that amount of use from these tools then they've more than paid
for themselves.

I'm quite pleased with both these products and would certainly
consider other tools from the range if I had a need. The SDS drill is
a bit on the heavy side though, as befits any SDS drill bought for
under £100.

I used it last week to take tiles off a bathroom wall - that's a first
for me and it was terrific fun! Place chisel bit against edge of tile,
click SDS start button, complete tile falls off wall within 0.5
seconds. Repeat ad infinitum

PoP

On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 17:32:32 -0000, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

surely the danger is it being permanently on ?

The problem is that it effectively removes one of your hands, as it is
wasted by keeping the machine on, a task that a latching switch could do
quite adequetely, giving you the safety benefit of being able to control the
machine better.

Christian.



I agree. Safety switch design is not always helpful especially if it
makes the tool more difficult to use because the user needs 3 hands to
operate it properly.

It's the same mentality that makes saws with long arbors difficult to
buy in case someone uses a stacked dado set on them.

Same story
Legislation for its own sake
Focus on the wrong thing.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 01:09:45 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

Do you think that the Freud would be a reasonable purchase to be
fitted permanently in a router table, Andy?

Mine is used in the table more than freehand. Freehand I use it about
50:50 between that and a 1/4" AEG.

It's particularly good in a table, because it has a big screw height
adjuster as standard. I don't know why more routers don't do this as
standard - it's one of the reasons I always recommend the Freud.

Switch is a little hard to reach, although easy enough to work blind.
I have a NVR switch & socket mounted on the table.

--
Smert' spamionam

Pet wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:


Audiphiles select their furniture to match their speakers. They don't
build speakers.


Surely Audiphiles "fiddle" with German cars?



I think you must be right.

Sick, isn't it?

PoP wrote:

That was an interesting design feature of the one I took back as well.
I've never seen a sliding plunge lock on a router before!

That was the main reason I decided to ditch the B&D "Woodworker" router
I had before my T5 - except in its case the "lock" drifted toward a
shallower cut all the time.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 13:07:12 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

That was the main reason I decided to ditch the B&D "Woodworker" router
I had before my T5 - except in its case the "lock" drifted toward a
shallower cut all the time.

Which on the face of it is better than the router taking a deeper cut
than intended as its easier to take another pass to remove more wood
than to replace wood that shouldn't have been taken out!

Though still appalling!

PoP