Is this sort of thing common?
http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/powe...n-energy-will-
run-on-diesel/story-29823524-detail/story.html

DerbyBorn wrote in
2.236:

Is this sort of thing common?
http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/powe...green-energy-w
ill- run-on-diesel/story-29823524-detail/story.html



Tiny URL:

http://tinyurl.com/zcowjsm

On 24/10/16 10:19, DerbyBorn wrote:
Is this sort of thing common?
http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/powe...n-energy-will-
run-on-diesel/story-29823524-detail/story.html

Increasingly so. You can get paid a lot of money to be just on standby.

Google STOR


--
"I guess a rattlesnake ain't risponsible fer bein' a rattlesnake, but ah
puts mah heel on um jess the same if'n I catches him around mah chillun".

Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Chris Hogg
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 09:19:57 GMT, DerbyBorn
wrote:

Is this sort of thing common?
http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/powe...n-energy-will-

run-on-diesel/story-29823524-detail/story.html

Getting more-so. See one of my earlier posts in the Solar energy
overtook Coal thread, and in particular http://tinyurl.com/zmmxmlz
where PP is being sought for one such down here in Cornwall. What
surprises me is that it's financially viable to build such a plant,
whether diesel or OCGT, just for the purposes of peak lopping from
time to time. The National Grid (and eventually us) must be offering a
huge price to these schemes to make them viable. Do NG pay a retainer,
I wonder?

More unintended consequences of the rush to intermittent power
sources, of course.

Excellent lead opinion article by Matt Ridley in the Times today. There
is this meme in the minds of some that batteries will save us from
intermittency. Ridley says, OK, lets do some sums and cost up what we'd
need. Which he proceeds to do and comes up with some trillions needed
to run the grid for a week.

And pans this idea of using our (electric) cars to power the grid on
windless days. Fine if you think 20 minutes constitutes "powering the
grid".


I'll probably never have an electric car, but I wonder if you could at
least use one somehow to power your home for a short while in an
emergency? Years ago, I'd never have imagined that cars would be full
of USB connectors, so some sort of mains inverter might also begin to
appear. I got an inverter about 15 years ago, but have only used it
once or twice, in the days when there was no standard charging connector.

"Dan S. MacAbre" wrote in message
...
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Chris Hogg
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 09:19:57 GMT, DerbyBorn
wrote:

Is this sort of thing common?
http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/powe...n-energy-will-

run-on-diesel/story-29823524-detail/story.html

Getting more-so. See one of my earlier posts in the Solar energy
overtook Coal thread, and in particular http://tinyurl.com/zmmxmlz
where PP is being sought for one such down here in Cornwall. What
surprises me is that it's financially viable to build such a plant,
whether diesel or OCGT, just for the purposes of peak lopping from
time to time. The National Grid (and eventually us) must be offering a
huge price to these schemes to make them viable. Do NG pay a retainer,
I wonder?

More unintended consequences of the rush to intermittent power
sources, of course.

Excellent lead opinion article by Matt Ridley in the Times today. There
is this meme in the minds of some that batteries will save us from
intermittency. Ridley says, OK, lets do some sums and cost up what we'd
need. Which he proceeds to do and comes up with some trillions needed
to run the grid for a week.

And pans this idea of using our (electric) cars to power the grid on
windless days. Fine if you think 20 minutes constitutes "powering the
grid".


I'll probably never have an electric car, but I wonder if you could at
least use one somehow to power your home for a short while in an
emergency?

Corse you can, particularly if the cooking and heating isnt electric.

Years ago, I'd never have imagined that cars would be full of USB
connectors, so some sort of mains inverter might also begin to appear. I
got an inverter about 15 years ago, but have only used it once or twice,
in the days when there was no standard charging connector.

Rod Speed wrote:


"Dan S. MacAbre" wrote in message
...
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Chris Hogg
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 09:19:57 GMT, DerbyBorn
wrote:

Is this sort of thing common?
http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/powe...n-energy-will-


run-on-diesel/story-29823524-detail/story.html

Getting more-so. See one of my earlier posts in the Solar energy
overtook Coal thread, and in particular http://tinyurl.com/zmmxmlz
where PP is being sought for one such down here in Cornwall. What
surprises me is that it's financially viable to build such a plant,
whether diesel or OCGT, just for the purposes of peak lopping from
time to time. The National Grid (and eventually us) must be offering a
huge price to these schemes to make them viable. Do NG pay a retainer,
I wonder?

More unintended consequences of the rush to intermittent power
sources, of course.

Excellent lead opinion article by Matt Ridley in the Times today. There
is this meme in the minds of some that batteries will save us from
intermittency. Ridley says, OK, lets do some sums and cost up what we'd
need. Which he proceeds to do and comes up with some trillions needed
to run the grid for a week.

And pans this idea of using our (electric) cars to power the grid on
windless days. Fine if you think 20 minutes constitutes "powering the
grid".


I'll probably never have an electric car, but I wonder if you could at
least use one somehow to power your home for a short while in an
emergency?

Corse you can, particularly if the cooking and heating isnt electric.

Yes, I suppose so. After all, I already have an inverter, and some
cable extensions. I think what I meant to ask was, since someone
somewhere is already thinking of "powering the grid" from a car, whether
a standardised way of powering just one's house for a short while might
make more sense, instead.

Years ago, I'd never have imagined that cars would be full of USB
connectors, so some sort of mains inverter might also begin to
appear. I got an inverter about 15 years ago, but have only used it
once or twice, in the days when there was no standard charging connector.

"Dan S. MacAbre" wrote in message
...
Rod Speed wrote:


"Dan S. MacAbre" wrote in message
...
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Chris Hogg
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 09:19:57 GMT, DerbyBorn
wrote:

Is this sort of thing common?
http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/powe...n-energy-will-


run-on-diesel/story-29823524-detail/story.html

Getting more-so. See one of my earlier posts in the Solar energy
overtook Coal thread, and in particular http://tinyurl.com/zmmxmlz
where PP is being sought for one such down here in Cornwall. What
surprises me is that it's financially viable to build such a plant,
whether diesel or OCGT, just for the purposes of peak lopping from
time to time. The National Grid (and eventually us) must be offering a
huge price to these schemes to make them viable. Do NG pay a retainer,
I wonder?

More unintended consequences of the rush to intermittent power
sources, of course.

Excellent lead opinion article by Matt Ridley in the Times today. There
is this meme in the minds of some that batteries will save us from
intermittency. Ridley says, OK, lets do some sums and cost up what we'd
need. Which he proceeds to do and comes up with some trillions needed
to run the grid for a week.

And pans this idea of using our (electric) cars to power the grid on
windless days. Fine if you think 20 minutes constitutes "powering the
grid".


I'll probably never have an electric car, but I wonder if you could at
least use one somehow to power your home for a short while in an
emergency?

Corse you can, particularly if the cooking and heating isnt electric.

Yes, I suppose so. After all, I already have an inverter, and some cable
extensions. I think what I meant to ask was, since someone somewhere is
already thinking of "powering the grid" from a car, whether a standardised
way of powering just one's house for a short while might make more sense,
instead.

Yes, some do that already. Mate of mine does it using ex phone exchange
batterys and in fact does have electric cooking and heating.

Years ago, I'd never have imagined that cars would be full of USB
connectors, so some sort of mains inverter might also begin to
appear. I got an inverter about 15 years ago, but have only used it
once or twice, in the days when there was no standard charging
connector.

Rod Speed wrote:


"Dan S. MacAbre" wrote in message
...
Rod Speed wrote:


"Dan S. MacAbre" wrote in message
...
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Chris Hogg
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 09:19:57 GMT, DerbyBorn
wrote:

Is this sort of thing common?
http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/powe...n-energy-will-



run-on-diesel/story-29823524-detail/story.html

Getting more-so. See one of my earlier posts in the Solar energy
overtook Coal thread, and in particular http://tinyurl.com/zmmxmlz
where PP is being sought for one such down here in Cornwall. What
surprises me is that it's financially viable to build such a plant,
whether diesel or OCGT, just for the purposes of peak lopping from
time to time. The National Grid (and eventually us) must be
offering a
huge price to these schemes to make them viable. Do NG pay a
retainer,
I wonder?

More unintended consequences of the rush to intermittent power
sources, of course.

Excellent lead opinion article by Matt Ridley in the Times today.
There
is this meme in the minds of some that batteries will save us from
intermittency. Ridley says, OK, lets do some sums and cost up what
we'd
need. Which he proceeds to do and comes up with some trillions needed
to run the grid for a week.

And pans this idea of using our (electric) cars to power the grid on
windless days. Fine if you think 20 minutes constitutes "powering the
grid".


I'll probably never have an electric car, but I wonder if you could at
least use one somehow to power your home for a short while in an
emergency?

Corse you can, particularly if the cooking and heating isnt electric.

Yes, I suppose so. After all, I already have an inverter, and some
cable extensions. I think what I meant to ask was, since someone
somewhere is already thinking of "powering the grid" from a car,
whether a standardised way of powering just one's house for a short
while might make more sense, instead.

Yes, some do that already. Mate of mine does it using ex phone exchange
batterys and in fact does have electric cooking and heating.

Interesting, thanks!

Years ago, I'd never have imagined that cars would be full of USB
connectors, so some sort of mains inverter might also begin to
appear. I got an inverter about 15 years ago, but have only used it
once or twice, in the days when there was no standard charging
connector.

On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 10:51:09 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:



Is this sort of thing common?
http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/powe...n-energy-will-
run-on-diesel/story-29823524-detail/story.html

Getting more-so. See one of my earlier posts in the Solar energy
overtook Coal thread, and in particular http://tinyurl.com/zmmxmlz
where PP is being sought for one such down here in Cornwall. What
surprises me is that it's financially viable to build such a plant,
whether diesel or OCGT, just for the purposes of peak lopping from
time to time. The National Grid (and eventually us) must be offering a
huge price to these schemes to make them viable. Do NG pay a retainer,
I wonder?

More unintended consequences of the rush to intermittent power
sources, of course.

Some down your part of the world predated that to an extent, SWEB as
was got permission to actually generate a small amount of power itself
though initially they used gas turbine engines but some of the
stations were later converted to diesel.
This article is old but it's an insight to how SWEB used to be
considered one of the more daring* of the electricity boards.
I suppose the the stations have all been closed now.
http://www.swehs.co.uk/archives/news13su.html

* A retired Southern linesman tells that they were horrified when a
Sweb chap turned up to help after some storm or something,
Southern apparently carefully verified the line was dead using some
sort of indicator then attaching the grounding cables,
SWEB man announced that they were trying a new method that saved time
and promptly got a crossbow out of the van , attached a copper wire to
a ground spike and the crossbow and then fired it over the lines.
I don't know if the Southern man is exaggerating or not or if this
became an official procedure.

G.Harman

On 24/10/16 10:51, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 09:19:57 GMT, DerbyBorn
wrote:

Is this sort of thing common?
http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/powe...n-energy-will-
run-on-diesel/story-29823524-detail/story.html

Getting more-so. See one of my earlier posts in the Solar energy
overtook Coal thread, and in particular http://tinyurl.com/zmmxmlz
where PP is being sought for one such down here in Cornwall. What
surprises me is that it's financially viable to build such a plant,
whether diesel or OCGT, just for the purposes of peak lopping from
time to time. The National Grid (and eventually us) must be offering a
huge price to these schemes to make them viable. Do NG pay a retainer,
I wonder?

Yes. You are paid for standby capacity, whether used or not. And by
definition, these plants only cut in when prices are 'through the roof'



More unintended consequences of the rush to intermittent power
sources, of course.


You really think its unintended?


--
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

Jonathan Swift.

Bit on You and Yours today from a guy who had a storage battery in his
kitchen. About half the size of a boiler, he said. Stores his excess solar
power from the day and allows him to boil a kettle, run the oven and
charge his electric car once the sun is down. He said the payback time was
approx 6 years. Probably missed some of it as I was in the car.

As ever, no figures. A bit like our EU contributions being used to fund
the NHS, remove VAT from fuel, or cure world poverty, depending on who was
making the promises at the time.

I'd also wonder if that battery pack would even last the 6 years required
for payback?

--
*You're never too old to learn something stupid.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Bit on You and Yours today from a guy who had a storage battery in his
kitchen. About half the size of a boiler, he said. Stores his excess solar
power from the day

Probably the same system featured on Rob Llewelyin's (sp?) youtube
channel, uses phase change materials like those 'clicky' handwarmers to
store energy.

Andy Burns wrote:

Probably the same system featured on Rob Llewelyin's (sp?) youtube
channel

If it is, there's a video at the foot of this page

http://www.fullychargedshow.co.uk/previous-episodes#/sunamp

DerbyBorn wrote:
DerbyBorn wrote in
2.236:

Is this sort of thing common?
http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/powe...green-energy-w
ill- run-on-diesel/story-29823524-detail/story.html



Tiny URL:

http://tinyurl.com/zcowjsm

Yes.
The application for our local one has been withdrawn presumably due the
the objections.

Link to the application and related paperwork incl objections here
http://tinyurl.com/jfvetey

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

allows him to boil a kettle, run the oven and
charge his electric car once the sun is down

ok, that's not going to be dome by phase change storage ...

On 24/10/2016 10:19, DerbyBorn wrote:
Is this sort of thing common?
http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/powe...n-energy-will-
run-on-diesel/story-29823524-detail/story.html


Yes, the better green alternative is to cut supplies, preferably to
those on green tariffs so that they can actually contribute to what they
believe.

On Monday, 24 October 2016 11:41:36 UTC+1, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Chris Hogg
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 09:19:57 GMT, DerbyBorn
wrote:

Is this sort of thing common?
http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/powe...n-energy-will-

run-on-diesel/story-29823524-detail/story.html

Getting more-so. See one of my earlier posts in the Solar energy
overtook Coal thread, and in particular http://tinyurl.com/zmmxmlz
where PP is being sought for one such down here in Cornwall. What
surprises me is that it's financially viable to build such a plant,
whether diesel or OCGT, just for the purposes of peak lopping from
time to time. The National Grid (and eventually us) must be offering a
huge price to these schemes to make them viable. Do NG pay a retainer,
I wonder?

More unintended consequences of the rush to intermittent power
sources, of course.

Excellent lead opinion article by Matt Ridley in the Times today. There
is this meme in the minds of some that batteries will save us from
intermittency. Ridley says, OK, lets do some sums and cost up what we'd
need. Which he proceeds to do and comes up with some trillions needed
to run the grid for a week.

And pans this idea of using our (electric) cars to power the grid on
windless days. Fine if you think 20 minutes constitutes "powering the
grid".


I'll probably never have an electric car, but I wonder if you could at
least use one somehow to power your home for a short while in an
emergency? Years ago, I'd never have imagined that cars would be full
of USB connectors, so some sort of mains inverter might also begin to
appear. I got an inverter about 15 years ago, but have only used it
once or twice, in the days when there was no standard charging connector.

Mitsubishi make such a kit for use when there is earthquakes in Japan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsub...supply_and_V2G

On 24/10/2016 10:19, DerbyBorn wrote:

Is this sort of thing common?

Increasingly...

http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/powe...n-energy-will-
run-on-diesel/story-29823524-detail/story.html



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 15:01:53 +0100, Tim Streater wrote:

I think what I meant to ask was, since someone somewhere is
already
thinking of "powering the grid" from a car, whether a standardised
way
of powering just one's house for a short while might make more
sense,
instead.

Why not just buy a small MG set running on diesel. We had an outage of
about 36 hours here a couple of years ago. A small number of houses
carried on as normal because they had such backup. I considered such
afterwards but have not followed it up. One would need to know how to
hook it up safely, but I imagine a sparks could sort that.

It's not that difficult but it's not a simple as a "jesus cable".
B-) During a power outage you can't rely on any of the supply feeds
being what they ought to be an that includes the supply earth. In
fact it's the earthing arrangements that make a complete change over
to genset operation complicated. It's simpler to have floating
bi-phase from the genset and run extension cables to the essential
indidvidual appliances like fridges/freezers and CH system. It also
avoids someone "forgetting" that your 2 kVA genset won't like the 10
kW shower or even, and much more likely to happen, the 3 kW kettle.

Most people seem to have a background power usage at home of at least
500W.

Ours is around 1 kW, drops to 250 W with no one up.

Your car battery could provide that for 90 minutes, max.

500 W @ 12 V = 42 A be a larger and good condition ordinary car
battery that could last 90 min. But aren't we talking about electric
cars with 30+ kWH capacity motive batteries? One of them ought to
last 60 hours or so @ a mere 500 W.

Then your car would be bricked because these days cars need a battery
connected the whole time.

The car battery wouldn't like it, they aren't designed for deep
discharge and one really deep cycle is enough to kill 'em. Cars vary,
mine will put itself into a coma if the battery volts get too low
while it's sleeping. "coma" meaning that it shuts down to a state
were to get in and wake it up needs the use of the manual key in the
single hidden key hole. If parking up for a long time make sure you
have access to that keyhole and have space to open the door...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 10/24/2016 8:13 PM, John Rumm wrote:
http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/powe...n-energy-will-
run-on-diesel/story-29823524-detail/story.html

Related but slightly tangential, our local hospital (Gloucester Royal)
obviously has some sort of standby generators, to judge from the
concrete flue containing separate stacks very like those of CCGT power
stations. Does anyone know whether these are likely to be gas turbines,
or the more traditional diesels? All that I know about is nuclear power
stations, where the standby generating plant was diesel up to the late
60s, and gas turbines (Proteus iirc) more recently.

The diesels were basically very similar to marine engines, with a rating
of around 1 MW.

It strikes me that these plant could be profitable assets for grid
backup, these days. Anyone know if they are used this way?

On 26/10/16 13:27, newshound wrote:
On 10/24/2016 8:13 PM, John Rumm wrote:
http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/powe...n-energy-will-

run-on-diesel/story-29823524-detail/story.html

Related but slightly tangential, our local hospital (Gloucester Royal)
obviously has some sort of standby generators, to judge from the
concrete flue containing separate stacks very like those of CCGT power
stations. Does anyone know whether these are likely to be gas turbines,
or the more traditional diesels? All that I know about is nuclear power
stations, where the standby generating plant was diesel up to the late
60s, and gas turbines (Proteus iirc) more recently.

Diesel is most often used for backup since its totally self contained
unless you have a gasometer handy.

Of course you can run OCGT on jet fuel since and OCGT is a jet engine
with a gearbox on it....if its burners are designed for avjet rather
than natural gas, I assume. Not gone into te details of what differences
there are between a jet engine on Avjet and a gas turbine on natural gas,.


The diesels were basically very similar to marine engines, with a rating
of around 1 MW.

It strikes me that these plant could be profitable assets for grid
backup, these days. Anyone know if they are used this way?

They can be. There is an arrangement whereby standby power can be sold
to the grid at very high prices.



--
No Apple devices were knowingly used in the preparation of this post.

In article ,
newshound wrote:
The diesels were basically very similar to marine engines, with a rating
of around 1 MW.

'We' had one at Thames TV Teddington, in a container type structure in the
car park. Volvo V12 engine, IIRC.

Installed 'just in case' after power problems in the 80s, and never once
used in anger, although test run regularly. Got sold for scrap some years
ago.

Was told it cost a lot more in fuel than buying the electricity in the
normal way.

--
*Women like silent men; they think they're listening.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 26/10/16 18:15, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2016 13:27:55 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 10/24/2016 8:13 PM, John Rumm wrote:
http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/powe...n-energy-will-
run-on-diesel/story-29823524-detail/story.html

Related but slightly tangential, our local hospital (Gloucester Royal)
obviously has some sort of standby generators, to judge from the
concrete flue containing separate stacks very like those of CCGT power
stations. Does anyone know whether these are likely to be gas turbines,
or the more traditional diesels? All that I know about is nuclear power
stations, where the standby generating plant was diesel up to the late
60s, and gas turbines (Proteus iirc) more recently.

The diesels were basically very similar to marine engines, with a rating
of around 1 MW.

It strikes me that these plant could be profitable assets for grid
backup, these days. Anyone know if they are used this way?

Seems that the NG are casting around for anything that will add to the
STOR and lop peaks in demand. Looks like they're getting seriously
worried. Unexpected consequences again, although TNP sees only a
conspiracy. Lots here http://tinyurl.com/jky5ax4

LOok, either people are incredibly unbelievably stupid, or some group of
people found it advantageous to lie through their back teeth about
renewable energy.


It probably is a combinbati9on of both: Cera5tinly David Mackay emailed
a contact of mine asking if there was 'anyone who could explain the
concept of intermittency to the ministers at DECC.

Huhne was incredibly unbelievably stupid, but people who run the power
companies are not.

--
Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed.

On Wednesday, 26 October 2016 13:28:19 UTC+1, newshound wrote:
On 10/24/2016 8:13 PM, John Rumm wrote:
http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/powe...n-energy-will-
run-on-diesel/story-29823524-detail/story.html

Related but slightly tangential, our local hospital (Gloucester Royal)
obviously has some sort of standby generators, to judge from the
concrete flue containing separate stacks very like those of CCGT power
stations. Does anyone know whether these are likely to be gas turbines,
or the more traditional diesels? All that I know about is nuclear power
stations, where the standby generating plant was diesel up to the late
60s, and gas turbines (Proteus iirc) more recently.

The diesels were basically very similar to marine engines, with a rating
of around 1 MW.

It strikes me that these plant could be profitable assets for grid
backup, these days. Anyone know if they are used this way?

I used to be a hospital engineer.
They will be diesel engines.
On power failure, they start and connect automatically.
Though usually only to essential services.
They are too small to be of much use forpublic supply.
In any event if the public supply failed, they would be covering the hospital anyway.

In article , harry
wrote:
On Wednesday, 26 October 2016 13:28:19 UTC+1, newshound wrote:
On 10/24/2016 8:13 PM, John Rumm wrote:
http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/powe...n-energy-will-
run-on-diesel/story-29823524-detail/story.html

Related but slightly tangential, our local hospital (Gloucester Royal)
obviously has some sort of standby generators, to judge from the
concrete flue containing separate stacks very like those of CCGT power
stations. Does anyone know whether these are likely to be gas turbines,
or the more traditional diesels? All that I know about is nuclear
power stations, where the standby generating plant was diesel up to
the late 60s, and gas turbines (Proteus iirc) more recently.

The diesels were basically very similar to marine engines, with a
rating of around 1 MW.

It strikes me that these plant could be profitable assets for grid
backup, these days. Anyone know if they are used this way?

I used to be a hospital engineer. They will be diesel engines. On power
failure, they start and connect automatically. Though usually only to
essential services. They are too small to be of much use forpublic
supply. In any event if the public supply failed, they would be covering
the hospital anyway.

and, with all these private genrators, there is the question of fuel.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 26/10/16 20:02, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 26/10/16 18:15, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Wed, 26 Oct 2016 13:27:55 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 10/24/2016 8:13 PM, John Rumm wrote:
http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/powe...n-energy-will-

run-on-diesel/story-29823524-detail/story.html

Related but slightly tangential, our local hospital (Gloucester Royal)
obviously has some sort of standby generators, to judge from the
concrete flue containing separate stacks very like those of CCGT power
stations. Does anyone know whether these are likely to be gas turbines,
or the more traditional diesels? All that I know about is nuclear power
stations, where the standby generating plant was diesel up to the late
60s, and gas turbines (Proteus iirc) more recently.

The diesels were basically very similar to marine engines, with a
rating
of around 1 MW.

It strikes me that these plant could be profitable assets for grid
backup, these days. Anyone know if they are used this way?

Seems that the NG are casting around for anything that will add to the
STOR and lop peaks in demand. Looks like they're getting seriously
worried. Unexpected consequences again, although TNP sees only a
conspiracy. Lots here http://tinyurl.com/jky5ax4

LOok, either people are incredibly unbelievably stupid, or some group
of people found it advantageous to lie through their back teeth about
renewable energy.

It probably is a combinbati9on of both: Cera5tinly David Mackay
emailed a contact of mine asking if there was 'anyone who could
explain the concept of intermittency to the ministers at DECC.

Huhne was incredibly unbelievably stupid, but people who run the power
companies are not.

Well I suppose his successor is Greg Clark, who is not stupid (I've met
him) - but whether *he* understands intermittency I know not. At least
DECC doesn't exist any longer.

Prior to the leadership battle, I did see Andrea Leadsom on BBC
parliament explaining to some select committee about nuclear power.

Most impressive was that she used the word 'dispatch' and appeared to
actually understand what it meant.



--
"I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
all women"

On 27/10/2016 07:29, harry wrote:

I used to be a hospital engineer.
They will be diesel engines.
On power failure, they start and connect automatically.
Though usually only to essential services.
They are too small to be of much use forpublic supply.
In any event if the public supply failed, they would be covering the hospital anyway.


As they should, however the public supply hasn't failed they are just
load shedding by using their own power.
I would have thought an engineer as green as you would understand load
shedding to allow green energy to work.

In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:
On 27/10/2016 07:29, harry wrote:

I used to be a hospital engineer.
They will be diesel engines.
On power failure, they start and connect automatically.
Though usually only to essential services.
They are too small to be of much use forpublic supply.
In any event if the public supply failed, they would be covering the hospital anyway.


As they should, however the public supply hasn't failed they are just
load shedding by using their own power.
I would have thought an engineer as green as you would understand load
shedding to allow green energy to work.

So, they use up all their fuel to help others - then how do they supply
themselves?

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 27/10/2016 10:45, charles wrote:
In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:
On 27/10/2016 07:29, harry wrote:

I used to be a hospital engineer.
They will be diesel engines.
On power failure, they start and connect automatically.
Though usually only to essential services.
They are too small to be of much use forpublic supply.
In any event if the public supply failed, they would be covering the hospital anyway.


As they should, however the public supply hasn't failed they are just
load shedding by using their own power.
I would have thought an engineer as green as you would understand load
shedding to allow green energy to work.

So, they use up all their fuel to help others - then how do they supply
themselves?


The fuel arrives in trucks.

On 10/27/2016 2:24 PM, dennis@home wrote:
On 27/10/2016 10:45, charles wrote:
In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:
On 27/10/2016 07:29, harry wrote:

I used to be a hospital engineer.
They will be diesel engines.
On power failure, they start and connect automatically.
Though usually only to essential services.
They are too small to be of much use forpublic supply.
In any event if the public supply failed, they would be covering the
hospital anyway.


As they should, however the public supply hasn't failed they are just
load shedding by using their own power.
I would have thought an engineer as green as you would understand load
shedding to allow green energy to work.

So, they use up all their fuel to help others - then how do they supply
themselves?


The fuel arrives in trucks.

Exactly. And there would be room to park a few tankers too.

But I guess in urban settings a few MW isn't much to reinforce the grid
locally, and in a blackout they would be maintaining hospital essential
services. Still, I don't have much feel for how much spare capacity they
might have, and the peak prices now are very high. But they are probably
not configured for feeding the grid.

There's another interesting unintended consequence of the green
movement. Nukes have always had to keep diesel supplies for 7 days
continuous running, but (because of the fuel price) they normally only
run briefly for testing, so never cycle their stores. But if you have
any biodiesel in the stocks, this is much more likely to degrade by
growth of bacteria and funghi, so they now have to be managed much more
carefully.

In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:
On 27/10/2016 10:45, charles wrote:
In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:
On 27/10/2016 07:29, harry wrote:

I used to be a hospital engineer.
They will be diesel engines.
On power failure, they start and connect automatically.
Though usually only to essential services.
They are too small to be of much use forpublic supply.
In any event if the public supply failed, they would be covering the hospital anyway.


As they should, however the public supply hasn't failed they are just
load shedding by using their own power.
I would have thought an engineer as green as you would understand load
shedding to allow green energy to work.

So, they use up all their fuel to help others - then how do they supply
themselves?


The fuel arrives in trucks.

Electric, I hope.

--
*i souport publik edekashun.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.