Hi all,

Trying to help an elderly neighbour with what may or may not be an
actual issue.

She has an Everest fitted Union brand lock mech on her DG ally front
door and says that she normally double locks it at night by turning
the key twice.

Looking at it briefly tonight it seems that it does indeed double lock
and that 'may' cause the deadbolt to move out in two stages.

However, you can't (now?) turn the key completely twice but only 1.5
turns, but you can't then get the key out till you turn it back the .5
turns. It does however seem to take two turns to fully unlock the door
again (or was it 2.5 so you could get the key out again). The point is
just one turn doesn't unlock the door.

Locking it with one turn also works (as in it locks it). ;-)

So, can anyone confirm this 'double locking' on these sort of DG doors
please?

I've pulled the actual Euro lock cylinder and it seems pretty
conventional (as expected) so this would be something that would be in
the lock mechanism itself.

Cheers, T i m

On 19/10/2016 20:22, T i m wrote:
Hi all,

Trying to help an elderly neighbour with what may or may not be an
actual issue.

She has an Everest fitted Union brand lock mech on her DG ally front
door and says that she normally double locks it at night by turning
the key twice.

Looking at it briefly tonight it seems that it does indeed double lock
and that 'may' cause the deadbolt to move out in two stages.

However, you can't (now?) turn the key completely twice but only 1.5
turns, but you can't then get the key out till you turn it back the .5
turns. It does however seem to take two turns to fully unlock the door
again (or was it 2.5 so you could get the key out again). The point is
just one turn doesn't unlock the door.

Locking it with one turn also works (as in it locks it). ;-)

So, can anyone confirm this 'double locking' on these sort of DG doors
please?

I've pulled the actual Euro lock cylinder and it seems pretty
conventional (as expected) so this would be something that would be in
the lock mechanism itself.

Cheers, T i m

Yes, I've got a double locking aluminium door. Turning the key through
360 degrees the second time does indeed shoot the bolt further into the
frame, making it more secure.

What happens if you turn the key with the door open? Can you then turn
it through two full turns and remove the key? If so, there's something
wrong with the alignment - stopping the bolt from moving fully when the
door is closed.

'Fraid I can't explain why it takes more turns to unlock it than to lock it!
--
Cheers,
Roger
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On Wed, 19 Oct 2016 22:39:50 +0100, Roger Mills
wrote:

snip
Looking at it briefly tonight it seems that it does indeed double lock
and that 'may' cause the deadbolt to move out in two stages.

However, you can't (now?) turn the key completely twice but only 1.5
turns, but you can't then get the key out till you turn it back the .5
turns. It does however seem to take two turns to fully unlock the door
again (or was it 2.5 so you could get the key out again). The point is
just one turn doesn't unlock the door.

snip

Yes, I've got a double locking aluminium door. Turning the key through
360 degrees the second time does indeed shoot the bolt further into the
frame, making it more secure.

Ok thanks ... so she's not lost her marbles then. ;-)

What happens if you turn the key with the door open?

The same (as it happens).

Can you then turn
it through two full turns and remove the key?

No, I don't believe so Roger.

If so, there's something
wrong with the alignment - stopping the bolt from moving fully when the
door is closed.

Understood (and why I checked).

'Fraid I can't explain why it takes more turns to unlock it than to lock it!

Now I know it does double lock, and from what you have confirmed re
how, I think it seems to be coming out too far on stage one and
possibly ending up between stages? So, unwinding the key (720 Deg) may
still withdraw it as it should? shrug

The Mrs though she heard something falling down inside the door as
they first looked into it so maybe something has worn out / off or
come unscrewed etc?

Looking into replacements it seems the 'split spindle' (allowing the
outer handle to move independently of the inner and not allow the door
to be opened from the outside without the key under any circumstances)
has (now) been re-engineered and so also replaceable.

Assuming this is the right / same one:

http://upvcspares4repairs.co.uk/upvc...n-everest.html

Cheers, T i m

On 19/10/2016 23:11, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 19 Oct 2016 22:39:50 +0100, Roger Mills
wrote:

snip
Looking at it briefly tonight it seems that it does indeed double lock
and that 'may' cause the deadbolt to move out in two stages.

However, you can't (now?) turn the key completely twice but only 1.5
turns, but you can't then get the key out till you turn it back the .5
turns. It does however seem to take two turns to fully unlock the door
again (or was it 2.5 so you could get the key out again). The point is
just one turn doesn't unlock the door.

snip

Yes, I've got a double locking aluminium door. Turning the key through
360 degrees the second time does indeed shoot the bolt further into the
frame, making it more secure.

Ok thanks ... so she's not lost her marbles then. ;-)

What happens if you turn the key with the door open?

The same (as it happens).

Can you then turn
it through two full turns and remove the key?

No, I don't believe so Roger.

If so, there's something
wrong with the alignment - stopping the bolt from moving fully when the
door is closed.

Understood (and why I checked).

'Fraid I can't explain why it takes more turns to unlock it than to lock it!

Now I know it does double lock, and from what you have confirmed re
how, I think it seems to be coming out too far on stage one and
possibly ending up between stages? So, unwinding the key (720 Deg) may
still withdraw it as it should? shrug

The Mrs though she heard something falling down inside the door as
they first looked into it so maybe something has worn out / off or
come unscrewed etc?

Looking into replacements it seems the 'split spindle' (allowing the
outer handle to move independently of the inner and not allow the door
to be opened from the outside without the key under any circumstances)
has (now) been re-engineered and so also replaceable.

Assuming this is the right / same one:

http://upvcspares4repairs.co.uk/upvc...n-everest.html

Cheers, T i m



I have an Everest door with that lock.

You just need to file two flats on a square spindle where it passes
through the lock. The flats should be on diagonally opposite corners of
the spindle as viewed end on. DIY solution to avoid paying £14.07!

There will then be two ways the spindle will go in and I can't remember
which is right. If you can't get both handles off your existing splindle
I could find out.

- As I found out after I had taken the door off and then taken the lock
to pieces.


--
Michael Chare

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On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 11:09:31 +0100, Michael Chare
wrote:

snip

Assuming this is the right / same one:

http://upvcspares4repairs.co.uk/upvc...n-everest.html


I have an Everest door with that lock.

Ok.

You just need to file two flats on a square spindle where it passes
through the lock. The flats should be on diagonally opposite corners of
the spindle as viewed end on. DIY solution to avoid paying £14.07!

Good thought, especially as you say, on this d-i-y group g but if
required I think I would get the lady to buy one ready made as then I
can't be held responsible, should something go wrong in the future.

There will then be two ways the spindle will go in and I can't remember
which is right. If you can't get both handles off your existing splindle
I could find out.

Thanks very much for the kind offer and I'll keep that in mind.

- As I found out after I had taken the door off and then taken the lock
to pieces.

Doh!

The issue is that the existing lock has been fine for a long time
(since the door was installed etc) although I think I may have done
something with the shoot bolts or the plates as the door was blown
shut with them expanded and one got bent (or summat) a few years back.

So, either something has now gone wrong with this lock as it's 'worn
out' (a spring broken or pin worn away) and is likely to fail
completely someday soon (as it's already proved a bit 'touchy' over
the last couple of days) or maybe it just needs a clean and re-lube or
a screw finding / replacing and locking back in place?

The problem is ... to get the lock out I think you have to first
remove the shoot bolts and to do that you probably have to take the
door off (especially for the bottom). Then, once you are in that
position and you then find out the lock really needs replacing then
you have to put it all together again to order the parts to do the
whole thing again some time later?

She's not 'hard up' as such but at the same time don't want to spend
any more of her money than necessary.

At the same time, she's old and a bit fragile and it's getting cold
out there ... ;-(

Cheers, T i m

On 20/10/2016 11:27, T i m wrote:


The problem is ... to get the lock out I think you have to first
remove the shoot bolts and to do that you probably have to take the
door off (especially for the bottom). Then, once you are in that
position and you then find out the lock really needs replacing then
you have to put it all together again to order the parts to do the
whole thing again some time later?



Exactly! I suggest that you take the existing spindle out to see if it
has the flats. If it has the flats, I would also rotate it 90 deg just
to make sure that it has not been put in incorrectly. I am not sure if
they work or not if 90 deg wrong.


--
Michael Chare

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