On Sat, 22 Oct 2016 07:13:48 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 02:58:19 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 01:33:44 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 23:10:49 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Bod wrote
Another Dave wrote
Another Dave wrote

I'm the OP.

I'm working on the assumption the landline broadband will be up
even
if
my house is down. I thought it was a requirement that the
landline
had
a battery backup for emergency use by a landline-powered phone,
although admittedly the broadband may not have. Time will tell.

If I can't see a fuse in the battery circuit I'll put one in and
consider my options if it blows.

Ok, but...:

It hasn't worked that way with all of the routers that I've had.
When the power supply went off the router went off with it.

Trivially fixed by having the router on the same UPS etc
that the desktop etc is power from when the mains is down.

I do that to avoid 2 second brownouts that crash the PC (or the
router).

I was going to, but then they stopped happening after the rebuilt
the local distribution switchyard which the 330KV line feeds.

Also because my voltage varies from 245V to 265V, and they refuse to
fix
it.

I haven't bothered to measure mine and
wouldn't want to run a UPS full time for that.

I only checked because the UPS warning light kept coming on, telling
me
it
was dropping the voltage.

The UPS keeps the voltage more sensible.

Yep.

I wired the house lights to it too

Massive amount of work to do that here.

Not really. You just take an output from the UPS and lead it to the
fusebox.

That alone is a non trivial exercise and I havent got all the lights on
the once circuit anyway, and quite a few of them are 150W PA38s too.

It's a very trivial exercise,

Not when you want a decent result it isnt.

Mine works fine.

Its an abortion and illegal to boot.

It's my house, I'll do as I wish. And it's not actually illegal in Scotland, only England.

A 5A flex

Nothing like good enough for when all those PAR38s are on at once.

If you used LEDs, not a problem, otherwise simply use a thicker flex.

An even bigger abortion and even more illegal.

with a plug on one end goes into the multiway power strip the computer's
plugged into. The other end feeds to a connector block I stuck inside
the
fusebox, connecting straight to the lighting circuits (two of them),
instead of them running off the fuses.

Non trivial to get into the meter box the way its done here.

You built your own house, what did you do wrong?

I didn't do anything wrong. All the wiring goes down the holes
in the concrete blocks.

Take the cover off the fusebox and access the relevant bits.

and the LEDs last much longer now.

I'm mostly still using long tube fluoros.

Most of mine wore out.

None of mine have, and they are all
45 years old now, still in perfect condition.

Not the tubes themselves surely?

Sure, but they last 20+ years and cost peanuts to replace.
MUCH less than leds do.

Haven't bought those old inefficient flickery things for years.

They are in fact more efficient than anything
but leds and arent flickery at all

They are to my eyes.

Your problem, I don't have that problem.

I find most car LEDs flickery too.

Ditto.

Odd you find one flickery and not the other,

I don't find any flickery. That's what I meant by the ditto.

I said I found most car LEDs flickery, you said ditto, meaning you also find the same things flickery as me - most car LEDs.

what about CRT monitors with low Hz?

Not flickery either.

You must have slow eyes.

and MUCH cheaper per decade than leds too.

LEDs are cheaper per decade

Nope.

due to halving the power consumption.

The lights arent on enough to pay for themselves that way.

If they aren't on much, the LEDs will also last longer.

LEDs don't die due to time on, its only the other technologys that do that.

They are quoted as hours of usage, usually 100,000 if not in a confined unit.

I am planning to have a very long strip
of leds for the main kitchen benches but
haven't gotten around to doing that yet.

I use these, they connect together:
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272393435045

Yeah, saved that the first time you mentioned them.
Not keen on your previous comment about them dying tho.

No, those don't die.

OK, but they don't ship here for a sensible price and I'm not keen
on the aesthetics either. Silly making them look like long tube
fluoros, they should be simple say 10mm square cross section.

I'd get that result with the flexible strips of leds glued
into a 10mm U channel of aluminium or stainless steel.

Could do, but these are quicker for me to put up.

They wouldn't be because you need at least two screws per segment.

One.

The ones I've had die are the GU10 spots with the LEDs too close
together
and they run too hot.

And it would be more convenient to get a very long length
of aluminium U section about 10mm across about 3.5m
long and have those led flexible strips in those, glued in.
But I'm not keen on the life people currently get with
those or the price of the ones with only 5 year warrantys.

The ones I linked to are so easy to put up.

Not as easy as my approach, just two screws into
the bottom of the roof beams which have the flange
inside the ceiling, per 3.5m length of U section.

The modular approach of yours wouldn't work
anything like as well because the roof beams
are on 4' centers and I'd need two screws for
each 4' module and 3 of those in each row, two
rows. Not clear if its bright enough either, the
ceiling is 8'8". Might need two rows in each row.

Trivially easy to have the U channel say 15mm wide
and have two rows of the flexible led strips glued into
each channel if that is needed to be bright enough.

Wouldn't need the modular approach or
anything like the same total cost either.

I just use one clip per 2 foot strip screwed into the ceiling,

Makes no sense to have 2 foot strips in my situation where I need
the strips to be 20' long in the kitchen and 40' long in the main room.

In my kitchen I just plugged several together.

And my ceiling is drop in 4' wide polyfoam paper faced panels.

Ah, cheap ****.

Cant screw into those every 2'.

Must be a joist every 2 feet.

Makes a lot more sense to have
just 2 screws to hold the 20' of channel onto the bottom of the
I beams that the 4' paper faced poly foam panels drop into.

don't have to be central, they plug into each other and support each
other.

20' and 40' channel works better.

I'd say the best thing would be what I linked to, but longer versions, must be some somewhere. Or you can get LED tubes that fit into existing fluor fittings, just take the ballast out.

--
Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine.

On 20/10/16 21:35, Michael Chare wrote:
On 19/10/2016 14:48, Another Dave wrote:
To provide backup during power cuts (to my shame I can't live without
broadband) I'm thinking of buying one these:


To solve the same problem, I have contemplated buying one of these from
Amazon:

Mini-Box picoUPS - 100?micro-UPS système 12 V DC/Batterie backup system

(Search for: Mini-Box picoUPS)

It does much the same thing but does not have the metal cover.


Thanks for your input.

The device you show isn't actually mains powered i.e. you have the
problem of supplying 18V DC. This additional circuit makes it a much
more expensive solution than the one I'm proposing. It also explains its
lack of size and beefiness. It also explains why there is no need for a
metal cover.

Another Dave

--
Change nospam to techie

"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 22 Oct 2016 07:13:48 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 02:58:19 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 01:33:44 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 23:10:49 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Bod wrote
Another Dave wrote
Another Dave wrote

I'm the OP.

I'm working on the assumption the landline broadband will be up
even
if
my house is down. I thought it was a requirement that the
landline
had
a battery backup for emergency use by a landline-powered phone,
although admittedly the broadband may not have. Time will tell.

If I can't see a fuse in the battery circuit I'll put one in
and
consider my options if it blows.

Ok, but...:

It hasn't worked that way with all of the routers that I've had.
When the power supply went off the router went off with it.

Trivially fixed by having the router on the same UPS etc
that the desktop etc is power from when the mains is down.

I do that to avoid 2 second brownouts that crash the PC (or the
router).

I was going to, but then they stopped happening after the rebuilt
the local distribution switchyard which the 330KV line feeds.

Also because my voltage varies from 245V to 265V, and they refuse
to
fix
it.

I haven't bothered to measure mine and
wouldn't want to run a UPS full time for that.

I only checked because the UPS warning light kept coming on, telling
me
it
was dropping the voltage.

The UPS keeps the voltage more sensible.

Yep.

I wired the house lights to it too

Massive amount of work to do that here.

Not really. You just take an output from the UPS and lead it to the
fusebox.

That alone is a non trivial exercise and I havent got all the lights
on
the once circuit anyway, and quite a few of them are 150W PA38s too.

It's a very trivial exercise,

Not when you want a decent result it isnt.

Mine works fine.

Its an abortion and illegal to boot.

It's my house, I'll do as I wish. And it's not actually illegal in
Scotland, only England.

Wrong with that last.

A 5A flex

Nothing like good enough for when all those PAR38s are on at once.

If you used LEDs, not a problem, otherwise simply use a thicker flex.

An even bigger abortion and even more illegal.

with a plug on one end goes into the multiway power strip the
computer's
plugged into. The other end feeds to a connector block I stuck inside
the
fusebox, connecting straight to the lighting circuits (two of them),
instead of them running off the fuses.

Non trivial to get into the meter box the way its done here.

You built your own house, what did you do wrong?

I didn't do anything wrong. All the wiring goes down the holes
in the concrete blocks.

Take the cover off the fusebox and access the relevant bits.

There is no cover, it has a big metal door and the problem
isnt access to the relevant bits, its how to get that cable into
the big metal box its in and still be legal, because currently the
meter reader opens that big metal door every time he reads the
meter. The box in on the outside wall of the house, in the back
yard and is read by the meter reader every 3 months.

The 3'x3' big metal box is set into the wall, it is bolted
into a 4" deep hole in the wall which has 4" concrete
blocks at the back of the box in the 8" thick block wall
there. The cables all come in thru the top of the meter
box which has its top with 1 course of 8" block above it.

and the LEDs last much longer now.

I'm mostly still using long tube fluoros.

Most of mine wore out.

None of mine have, and they are all
45 years old now, still in perfect condition.

Not the tubes themselves surely?

Sure, but they last 20+ years and cost peanuts to replace.
MUCH less than leds do.

Haven't bought those old inefficient flickery things for years.

They are in fact more efficient than anything
but leds and arent flickery at all

They are to my eyes.

Your problem, I don't have that problem.

I find most car LEDs flickery too.

Ditto.

Odd you find one flickery and not the other,

I don't find any flickery. That's what I meant by the ditto.

I said I found most car LEDs flickery, you said ditto,

Yes.

meaning you also find the same things flickery as me - most car LEDs.

Nope, meaning that my comment on not finding
fluours flickery applied to the car leds too.

what about CRT monitors with low Hz?

Not flickery either.

You must have slow eyes.

Normal eyes. Most don't find fluoros flickery or car leds either.

You are a freak as, usual.

and MUCH cheaper per decade than leds too.

LEDs are cheaper per decade

Nope.

due to halving the power consumption.

The lights arent on enough to pay for themselves that way.

If they aren't on much, the LEDs will also last longer.

LEDs don't die due to time on, its only the other technologys that do
that.

They are quoted as hours of usage, usually 100,000 if not in a confined
unit.

That number is clearly straight from someone's arse and isnt measured.

And if it is true, that's 12 years so the ones you use are lousy value
compared with long tube fluoros which usually last me about 20 years
and cost much less.

I am planning to have a very long strip
of leds for the main kitchen benches but
haven't gotten around to doing that yet.

I use these, they connect together:
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272393435045

Yeah, saved that the first time you mentioned them.
Not keen on your previous comment about them dying tho.

No, those don't die.

OK, but they don't ship here for a sensible price and I'm not keen
on the aesthetics either. Silly making them look like long tube
fluoros, they should be simple say 10mm square cross section.

I'd get that result with the flexible strips of leds glued
into a 10mm U channel of aluminium or stainless steel.

Could do, but these are quicker for me to put up.

They wouldn't be because you need at least two screws per segment.

One.

Still much more than with my approach.

The ones I've had die are the GU10 spots with the LEDs too close
together and they run too hot.

And it would be more convenient to get a very long length
of aluminium U section about 10mm across about 3.5m
long and have those led flexible strips in those, glued in.
But I'm not keen on the life people currently get with
those or the price of the ones with only 5 year warrantys.

The ones I linked to are so easy to put up.

Not as easy as my approach, just two screws into
the bottom of the roof beams which have the flange
inside the ceiling, per 3.5m length of U section.

The modular approach of yours wouldn't work
anything like as well because the roof beams
are on 4' centers and I'd need two screws for
each 4' module and 3 of those in each row, two
rows. Not clear if its bright enough either, the
ceiling is 8'8". Might need two rows in each row.

Trivially easy to have the U channel say 15mm wide
and have two rows of the flexible led strips glued into
each channel if that is needed to be bright enough.

Wouldn't need the modular approach or
anything like the same total cost either.

I just use one clip per 2 foot strip screwed into the ceiling,

Makes no sense to have 2 foot strips in my situation where I need
the strips to be 20' long in the kitchen and 40' long in the main room.

In my kitchen I just plugged several together.

Sure, but there isnt any way to have one screw per 2' strip.

And my ceiling is drop in 4' wide polyfoam paper faced panels.

Ah, cheap ****.

Nothing cheap about it and it isnt **** either,
each panel is completely rigid, no sagging at all.

Cant screw into those every 2'.

Must be a joist every 2 feet.

Nope, every 4' as I said. These are galvanised steel
I beams with one of the top flanges missing.

Makes a lot more sense to have just 2 screws to hold the 20' of channel
onto the bottom of the I beams that the 4' paper faced poly foam panels
drop into.

don't have to be central, they plug into each other and support each
other.

20' and 40' channel works better.

I'd say the best thing would be what I linked to, but longer versions,
must be some somewhere.

Even 4' ones would still be a lot more farting around mounting them
that a single 20' piece of U channel with just a couple of screws into the
bottom flange of the galvanised steel I beams which are at 4' centers.

Or you can get LED tubes that fit into existing fluor fittings, just take
the ballast out.

The fluoros arent where the 20' strip of led would be and two 20' led strips
in
a 10mm U channel over each of the long benches would look vastly better.
Much better than your leds too, they pretend to be fluoros. Stupid approach.
The new technology should be done the best way it can be, not pretending
to be the previous technology.

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2016 11:38:17 +0100, Bob Minchin
wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
James Wilkinson Sword wrote

I use these, they
connect together:
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272393435045

JWS, a couple of questions if I may?

The ebay listing quotes 6 power ranges but only 4 lengths.
I presume these are 5 watts per foot? and they are not currently
offering 5 and 6' ones.

How many leds per foot do they use please.
Thanks in advance

I use mainly the 2 foot ones and they are 9 watts.

I can see 24 LEDs in one of my 1 foot ones, the 2 foot ones have covers on.

I've never seen longer ones, but I just join them up.

Thank you
Very helpful.

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 22 October 2016 11:38:17 UTC+1, Bob Minchin wrote:
James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
James Wilkinson Sword wrote

I use these, they
connect together:
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272393435045

JWS, a couple of questions if I may?

The ebay listing quotes 6 power ranges but only 4 lengths.
I presume these are 5 watts per foot? and they are not currently
offering 5 and 6' ones.

How many leds per foot do they use please.
Thanks in advance

Banggood does them at a fraction of the price.

How do you find they last time wise ?

That other one the phucker lists doesnt ship here. banggood does.

On Sat, 22 Oct 2016 19:43:18 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 22 October 2016 11:38:17 UTC+1, Bob Minchin wrote:
James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
James Wilkinson Sword wrote

I use these, they
connect together:
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272393435045

JWS, a couple of questions if I may?

The ebay listing quotes 6 power ranges but only 4 lengths.
I presume these are 5 watts per foot? and they are not currently
offering 5 and 6' ones.

How many leds per foot do they use please.
Thanks in advance

Banggood does them at a fraction of the price.

How do you find they last time wise ?

That other one the phucker lists doesnt ship here. banggood does.

I've had mine running for 2 years with no problems. Some are on most of the time, some are on occasionally.

--
"Naff" is actually an old gay slang for useless, from its original meaning of 'heterosexual' i.e. Not Available For ****ing.

On Sat, 22 Oct 2016 18:27:14 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 22 Oct 2016 07:13:48 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 02:58:19 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 01:33:44 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 23:10:49 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Bod wrote
Another Dave wrote
Another Dave wrote

I'm the OP.

I'm working on the assumption the landline broadband will be up
even
if
my house is down. I thought it was a requirement that the
landline
had
a battery backup for emergency use by a landline-powered phone,
although admittedly the broadband may not have. Time will tell.

If I can't see a fuse in the battery circuit I'll put one in
and
consider my options if it blows.

Ok, but...:

It hasn't worked that way with all of the routers that I've had.
When the power supply went off the router went off with it.

Trivially fixed by having the router on the same UPS etc
that the desktop etc is power from when the mains is down.

I do that to avoid 2 second brownouts that crash the PC (or the
router).

I was going to, but then they stopped happening after the rebuilt
the local distribution switchyard which the 330KV line feeds.

Also because my voltage varies from 245V to 265V, and they refuse
to
fix
it.

I haven't bothered to measure mine and
wouldn't want to run a UPS full time for that.

I only checked because the UPS warning light kept coming on, telling
me
it
was dropping the voltage.

The UPS keeps the voltage more sensible.

Yep.

I wired the house lights to it too

Massive amount of work to do that here.

Not really. You just take an output from the UPS and lead it to the
fusebox.

That alone is a non trivial exercise and I havent got all the lights
on
the once circuit anyway, and quite a few of them are 150W PA38s too.

It's a very trivial exercise,

Not when you want a decent result it isnt.

Mine works fine.

Its an abortion and illegal to boot.

It's my house, I'll do as I wish. And it's not actually illegal in
Scotland, only England.

Wrong with that last.

Only required if you're building an extension etc: http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org...ions/scotland/

A 5A flex

Nothing like good enough for when all those PAR38s are on at once.

If you used LEDs, not a problem, otherwise simply use a thicker flex.

An even bigger abortion and even more illegal.

with a plug on one end goes into the multiway power strip the
computer's
plugged into. The other end feeds to a connector block I stuck inside
the
fusebox, connecting straight to the lighting circuits (two of them),
instead of them running off the fuses.

Non trivial to get into the meter box the way its done here.

You built your own house, what did you do wrong?

I didn't do anything wrong. All the wiring goes down the holes
in the concrete blocks.

Take the cover off the fusebox and access the relevant bits.

There is no cover, it has a big metal door and the problem
isnt access to the relevant bits, its how to get that cable into
the big metal box its in and still be legal, because currently the
meter reader opens that big metal door every time he reads the
meter. The box in on the outside wall of the house, in the back
yard and is read by the meter reader every 3 months.

The 3'x3' big metal box is set into the wall, it is bolted
into a 4" deep hole in the wall which has 4" concrete
blocks at the back of the box in the 8" thick block wall
there. The cables all come in thru the top of the meter
box which has its top with 1 course of 8" block above it.

Ah, so your fuses are outside. Odd way to do it. So why can't you tap into the wire once it's in the house? You can join onto it anywhere there's a light fixture, and simply disconnect that fuse.

and the LEDs last much longer now.

I'm mostly still using long tube fluoros.

Most of mine wore out.

None of mine have, and they are all
45 years old now, still in perfect condition.

Not the tubes themselves surely?

Sure, but they last 20+ years and cost peanuts to replace.
MUCH less than leds do.

Haven't bought those old inefficient flickery things for years.

They are in fact more efficient than anything
but leds and arent flickery at all

They are to my eyes.

Your problem, I don't have that problem.

I find most car LEDs flickery too.

Ditto.

Odd you find one flickery and not the other,

I don't find any flickery. That's what I meant by the ditto.

I said I found most car LEDs flickery, you said ditto,

Yes.

meaning you also find the same things flickery as me - most car LEDs.

Nope, meaning that my comment on not finding
fluours flickery applied to the car leds too.

Ah, you were dittoing your own comment. Silly.

what about CRT monitors with low Hz?

Not flickery either.

You must have slow eyes.

Normal eyes. Most don't find fluoros flickery or car leds either.

You are a freak as, usual.

Many do, easy to google for people moaning about car lights.

Having something that works faster makes you better. Pigeons have even better sight than us and can't watch television.

and MUCH cheaper per decade than leds too.

LEDs are cheaper per decade

Nope.

due to halving the power consumption.

The lights arent on enough to pay for themselves that way.

If they aren't on much, the LEDs will also last longer.

LEDs don't die due to time on, its only the other technologys that do
that.

They are quoted as hours of usage, usually 100,000 if not in a confined
unit.

That number is clearly straight from someone's arse and isnt measured.

It's from the manufacturer of the LED.

And if it is true, that's 12 years so the ones you use are lousy value
compared with long tube fluoros which usually last me about 20 years
and cost much less.

12 years on 24 hours a day, which yours aren't. And how much power would you use over 100,000 hours?

I am planning to have a very long strip
of leds for the main kitchen benches but
haven't gotten around to doing that yet.

I use these, they connect together:
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272393435045

Yeah, saved that the first time you mentioned them.
Not keen on your previous comment about them dying tho.

No, those don't die.

OK, but they don't ship here for a sensible price and I'm not keen
on the aesthetics either. Silly making them look like long tube
fluoros, they should be simple say 10mm square cross section.

I'd get that result with the flexible strips of leds glued
into a 10mm U channel of aluminium or stainless steel.

Could do, but these are quicker for me to put up.

They wouldn't be because you need at least two screws per segment.

One.

Still much more than with my approach.

Screws are easy to put up.

The ones I've had die are the GU10 spots with the LEDs too close
together and they run too hot.

And it would be more convenient to get a very long length
of aluminium U section about 10mm across about 3.5m
long and have those led flexible strips in those, glued in.
But I'm not keen on the life people currently get with
those or the price of the ones with only 5 year warrantys.

The ones I linked to are so easy to put up.

Not as easy as my approach, just two screws into
the bottom of the roof beams which have the flange
inside the ceiling, per 3.5m length of U section.

The modular approach of yours wouldn't work
anything like as well because the roof beams
are on 4' centers and I'd need two screws for
each 4' module and 3 of those in each row, two
rows. Not clear if its bright enough either, the
ceiling is 8'8". Might need two rows in each row.

Trivially easy to have the U channel say 15mm wide
and have two rows of the flexible led strips glued into
each channel if that is needed to be bright enough.

Wouldn't need the modular approach or
anything like the same total cost either.

I just use one clip per 2 foot strip screwed into the ceiling,

Makes no sense to have 2 foot strips in my situation where I need
the strips to be 20' long in the kitchen and 40' long in the main room.

In my kitchen I just plugged several together.

Sure, but there isnt any way to have one screw per 2' strip.

Yes there is. Clips (one screw each) 2 feet apart, in about the centre of each strip.

And my ceiling is drop in 4' wide polyfoam paper faced panels.

Ah, cheap ****.

Nothing cheap about it and it isnt **** either,
each panel is completely rigid, no sagging at all.

But you can't screw anything into it, rather useless. That's why I hate plasterboard walls, not as easy putting up pictures as on wood walls.

Cant screw into those every 2'.

Must be a joist every 2 feet.

Nope, every 4' as I said. These are galvanised steel
I beams with one of the top flanges missing.

Makes a lot more sense to have just 2 screws to hold the 20' of channel
onto the bottom of the I beams that the 4' paper faced poly foam panels
drop into.

don't have to be central, they plug into each other and support each
other.

20' and 40' channel works better.

I'd say the best thing would be what I linked to, but longer versions,
must be some somewhere.

Even 4' ones would still be a lot more farting around mounting them
that a single 20' piece of U channel with just a couple of screws into the
bottom flange of the galvanised steel I beams which are at 4' centers.

Your way sounds complicated to me. You have extra stuff to set up. I just use the supplied clips and connectors.

Or you can get LED tubes that fit into existing fluor fittings, just take
the ballast out.

The fluoros arent where the 20' strip of led would be and two 20' led strips
in
a 10mm U channel over each of the long benches would look vastly better.
Much better than your leds too, they pretend to be fluoros. Stupid approach.
The new technology should be done the best way it can be, not pretending
to be the previous technology.

LEDs are best in strips like mine, then they don't overheat.

--
A brunette, a blonde, and a redhead are all in third grade. Who has the biggest breasts?
The blonde, because she's 18.

On Saturday, 22 October 2016 19:43:24 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 22 October 2016 11:38:17 UTC+1, Bob Minchin wrote:
James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
James Wilkinson Sword wrote

I use these, they
connect together:
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272393435045

Banggood does them at a fraction of the price.

How do you find they last time wise ?

That other one the phucker lists doesnt ship here. banggood does..

I don't know.


NT

"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 22 Oct 2016 18:27:14 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 22 Oct 2016 07:13:48 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 02:58:19 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 01:33:44 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 23:10:49 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Bod wrote
Another Dave wrote
Another Dave wrote

I'm the OP.

I'm working on the assumption the landline broadband will be
up
even
if
my house is down. I thought it was a requirement that the
landline
had
a battery backup for emergency use by a landline-powered
phone,
although admittedly the broadband may not have. Time will
tell.

If I can't see a fuse in the battery circuit I'll put one in
and
consider my options if it blows.

Ok, but...:

It hasn't worked that way with all of the routers that I've
had.
When the power supply went off the router went off with it.

Trivially fixed by having the router on the same UPS etc
that the desktop etc is power from when the mains is down.

I do that to avoid 2 second brownouts that crash the PC (or the
router).

I was going to, but then they stopped happening after the rebuilt
the local distribution switchyard which the 330KV line feeds.

Also because my voltage varies from 245V to 265V, and they
refuse
to
fix
it.

I haven't bothered to measure mine and
wouldn't want to run a UPS full time for that.

I only checked because the UPS warning light kept coming on,
telling
me
it
was dropping the voltage.

The UPS keeps the voltage more sensible.

Yep.

I wired the house lights to it too

Massive amount of work to do that here.

Not really. You just take an output from the UPS and lead it to
the
fusebox.

That alone is a non trivial exercise and I havent got all the
lights
on
the once circuit anyway, and quite a few of them are 150W PA38s
too.

It's a very trivial exercise,

Not when you want a decent result it isnt.

Mine works fine.

Its an abortion and illegal to boot.

It's my house, I'll do as I wish. And it's not actually illegal in
Scotland, only England.

Wrong with that last.

Only required if you're building an extension etc:
http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org...ions/scotland/

Doesn't say you can do anything you like and the stupidity you did.

A 5A flex

Nothing like good enough for when all those PAR38s are on at once.

If you used LEDs, not a problem, otherwise simply use a thicker flex.

An even bigger abortion and even more illegal.

with a plug on one end goes into the multiway power strip the
computer's
plugged into. The other end feeds to a connector block I stuck
inside
the
fusebox, connecting straight to the lighting circuits (two of them),
instead of them running off the fuses.

Non trivial to get into the meter box the way its done here.

You built your own house, what did you do wrong?

I didn't do anything wrong. All the wiring goes down the holes
in the concrete blocks.

Take the cover off the fusebox and access the relevant bits.

There is no cover, it has a big metal door and the problem
isnt access to the relevant bits, its how to get that cable into
the big metal box its in and still be legal, because currently the
meter reader opens that big metal door every time he reads the
meter. The box in on the outside wall of the house, in the back
yard and is read by the meter reader every 3 months.

The 3'x3' big metal box is set into the wall, it is bolted
into a 4" deep hole in the wall which has 4" concrete
blocks at the back of the box in the 8" thick block wall
there. The cables all come in thru the top of the meter
box which has its top with 1 course of 8" block above it.

Ah, so your fuses are outside. Odd way to do it.

Nope, that allows the meter to be read any time the meter reader
wants to do that and doesn't need anyone to let them into the house.

So why can't you tap into the wire once it's in the house?

There isnt just one wire for all the lights.

There isnt even just one light circuit either.

You can join onto it anywhere there's a light fixture, and simply
disconnect that fuse.

There isnt just one fuse.

and the LEDs last much longer now.

I'm mostly still using long tube fluoros.

Most of mine wore out.

None of mine have, and they are all
45 years old now, still in perfect condition.

Not the tubes themselves surely?

Sure, but they last 20+ years and cost peanuts to replace.
MUCH less than leds do.

Haven't bought those old inefficient flickery things for years.

They are in fact more efficient than anything
but leds and arent flickery at all

They are to my eyes.

Your problem, I don't have that problem.

I find most car LEDs flickery too.

Ditto.

Odd you find one flickery and not the other,

I don't find any flickery. That's what I meant by the ditto.

I said I found most car LEDs flickery, you said ditto,

Yes.

meaning you also find the same things flickery as me - most car LEDs.

Nope, meaning that my comment on not finding
fluours flickery applied to the car leds too.

Ah, you were dittoing your own comment.

Yep.

Silly.

What's how the ditto is normally used.

what about CRT monitors with low Hz?

Not flickery either.

You must have slow eyes.

Normal eyes. Most don't find fluoros flickery or car leds either.

You are a freak as, usual.

Many do,

There are plenty of freaks. Always have been, always will be.

Some are freaky enough to run around
with no clothes on in the middle of winter.

easy to google for people moaning about car lights.

FAR more don't.

Having something that works faster makes you better.

Nope, just a freak.

Pigeons have even better sight than us and can't watch television.

Just as well, TV progs for pigeons would be a tad boring.

and MUCH cheaper per decade than leds too.

LEDs are cheaper per decade

Nope.

due to halving the power consumption.

The lights arent on enough to pay for themselves that way.

If they aren't on much, the LEDs will also last longer.

LEDs don't die due to time on, its only the other technologys that do
that.

They are quoted as hours of usage, usually 100,000 if not in a confined
unit.

That number is clearly straight from someone's arse and isnt measured.

It's from the manufacturer of the LED.

From someone who works for that manufacturer's arse.

And if it is true, that's 12 years so the ones you use are lousy value
compared with long tube fluoros which usually last me about 20 years and
cost much less.

12 years on 24 hours a day, which yours aren't.

You have no idea about mine.

And how much power would you use over 100,000 hours?

I am planning to have a very long strip
of leds for the main kitchen benches but
haven't gotten around to doing that yet.

I use these, they connect together:
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272393435045

Yeah, saved that the first time you mentioned them.
Not keen on your previous comment about them dying tho.

No, those don't die.

OK, but they don't ship here for a sensible price and I'm not keen
on the aesthetics either. Silly making them look like long tube
fluoros, they should be simple say 10mm square cross section.

I'd get that result with the flexible strips of leds glued
into a 10mm U channel of aluminium or stainless steel.

Could do, but these are quicker for me to put up.

They wouldn't be because you need at least two screws per segment.

One.

Still much more than with my approach.

Screws are easy to put up.

Not when there is nothing to screw them into.

The ones I've had die are the GU10 spots with the LEDs too close
together and they run too hot.

And it would be more convenient to get a very long length
of aluminium U section about 10mm across about 3.5m
long and have those led flexible strips in those, glued in.
But I'm not keen on the life people currently get with
those or the price of the ones with only 5 year warrantys.

The ones I linked to are so easy to put up.

Not as easy as my approach, just two screws into
the bottom of the roof beams which have the flange
inside the ceiling, per 3.5m length of U section.

The modular approach of yours wouldn't work
anything like as well because the roof beams
are on 4' centers and I'd need two screws for
each 4' module and 3 of those in each row, two
rows. Not clear if its bright enough either, the
ceiling is 8'8". Might need two rows in each row.

Trivially easy to have the U channel say 15mm wide
and have two rows of the flexible led strips glued into
each channel if that is needed to be bright enough.

Wouldn't need the modular approach or
anything like the same total cost either.

I just use one clip per 2 foot strip screwed into the ceiling,

Makes no sense to have 2 foot strips in my situation where I need
the strips to be 20' long in the kitchen and 40' long in the main room.

In my kitchen I just plugged several together.

Sure, but there isnt any way to have one screw per 2' strip.

Yes there is.

No there isnt.

Clips (one screw each) 2 feet apart, in about the centre of each strip.

Nothing to screw it into.

And my ceiling is drop in 4' wide polyfoam paper faced panels.

Ah, cheap ****.

Nothing cheap about it and it isnt **** either,
each panel is completely rigid, no sagging at all.

But you can't screw anything into it,

Wrong, as always. The bottom of the I beams are fine.

rather useless.

Wrong, as always. Leaves conventional ceilings for dead.

That's why I hate plasterboard walls, not as easy putting up pictures as
on wood walls.

I don't bother with pictures.

Cant screw into those every 2'.

Must be a joist every 2 feet.

Nope, every 4' as I said. These are galvanised steel
I beams with one of the top flanges missing.

Makes a lot more sense to have just 2 screws to hold the 20' of channel
onto the bottom of the I beams that the 4' paper faced poly foam panels
drop into.

don't have to be central, they plug into each other and support each
other.

20' and 40' channel works better.

I'd say the best thing would be what I linked to, but longer versions,
must be some somewhere.

Even 4' ones would still be a lot more farting around mounting them
that a single 20' piece of U channel with just a couple of screws into
the
bottom flange of the galvanised steel I beams which are at 4' centers.

Your way sounds complicated to me.

Because you have never had a clue.

You have extra stuff to set up.

Nope, just two screws per 20' piece of channel, leaves yours for dead.

I just use the supplied clips and connectors.

The strips of leds come with connectors and
all you have to do is glue it into the channel.

Or you can get LED tubes that fit into existing fluor fittings, just
take the ballast out.

The fluoros arent where the 20' strip of led would be and two 20' led
strips
in a 10mm U channel over each of the long benches would look vastly
better.
Much better than your leds too, they pretend to be fluoros. Stupid
approach.
The new technology should be done the best way it can be, not pretending
to be the previous technology.

LEDs are best in strips like mine, then they don't overheat.

The flexible strips of LEDs in channel would have exactly
the same number of leds per foot as yours and have an
aluminium channel behind them so will dissipate heat
even better than yours which have plastic behind them
and are vastly better to mount, just 2 screws per 20' strip.

And no connectors between each strip to fail either.

On Sat, 22 Oct 2016 22:42:13 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 22 Oct 2016 18:27:14 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news On Sat, 22 Oct 2016 07:13:48 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 02:58:19 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 01:33:44 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 23:10:49 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Bod wrote
Another Dave wrote
Another Dave wrote

I'm the OP.

I'm working on the assumption the landline broadband will be
up
even
if
my house is down. I thought it was a requirement that the
landline
had
a battery backup for emergency use by a landline-powered
phone,
although admittedly the broadband may not have. Time will
tell.

If I can't see a fuse in the battery circuit I'll put one in
and
consider my options if it blows.

Ok, but...:

It hasn't worked that way with all of the routers that I've
had.
When the power supply went off the router went off with it.

Trivially fixed by having the router on the same UPS etc
that the desktop etc is power from when the mains is down.

I do that to avoid 2 second brownouts that crash the PC (or the
router).

I was going to, but then they stopped happening after the rebuilt
the local distribution switchyard which the 330KV line feeds.

Also because my voltage varies from 245V to 265V, and they
refuse
to
fix
it.

I haven't bothered to measure mine and
wouldn't want to run a UPS full time for that.

I only checked because the UPS warning light kept coming on,
telling
me
it
was dropping the voltage.

The UPS keeps the voltage more sensible.

Yep.

I wired the house lights to it too

Massive amount of work to do that here.

Not really. You just take an output from the UPS and lead it to
the
fusebox.

That alone is a non trivial exercise and I havent got all the
lights
on
the once circuit anyway, and quite a few of them are 150W PA38s
too.

It's a very trivial exercise,

Not when you want a decent result it isnt.

Mine works fine.

Its an abortion and illegal to boot.

It's my house, I'll do as I wish. And it's not actually illegal in
Scotland, only England.

Wrong with that last.

Only required if you're building an extension etc:
http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org...ions/scotland/

Doesn't say you can do anything you like and the stupidity you did.

It lists what you can't do. What on earth makes you think the law cares what happens in MY OWN HOME?

A 5A flex

Nothing like good enough for when all those PAR38s are on at once.

If you used LEDs, not a problem, otherwise simply use a thicker flex.

An even bigger abortion and even more illegal.

with a plug on one end goes into the multiway power strip the
computer's
plugged into. The other end feeds to a connector block I stuck
inside
the
fusebox, connecting straight to the lighting circuits (two of them),
instead of them running off the fuses.

Non trivial to get into the meter box the way its done here.

You built your own house, what did you do wrong?

I didn't do anything wrong. All the wiring goes down the holes
in the concrete blocks.

Take the cover off the fusebox and access the relevant bits.

There is no cover, it has a big metal door and the problem
isnt access to the relevant bits, its how to get that cable into
the big metal box its in and still be legal, because currently the
meter reader opens that big metal door every time he reads the
meter. The box in on the outside wall of the house, in the back
yard and is read by the meter reader every 3 months.

The 3'x3' big metal box is set into the wall, it is bolted
into a 4" deep hole in the wall which has 4" concrete
blocks at the back of the box in the 8" thick block wall
there. The cables all come in thru the top of the meter
box which has its top with 1 course of 8" block above it.

Ah, so your fuses are outside. Odd way to do it.

Nope, that allows the meter to be read any time the meter reader
wants to do that and doesn't need anyone to let them into the house.

My METER is outside. My FUSEBOX is inside. Why should these be in the same place? Most houses in the UK are like this.

So why can't you tap into the wire once it's in the house?

There isnt just one wire for all the lights.

There isnt even just one light circuit either.

You can join onto it anywhere there's a light fixture, and simply
disconnect that fuse.

There isnt just one fuse.

Then two or three or whatever. I've got two.

and the LEDs last much longer now.

I'm mostly still using long tube fluoros.

Most of mine wore out.

None of mine have, and they are all
45 years old now, still in perfect condition.

Not the tubes themselves surely?

Sure, but they last 20+ years and cost peanuts to replace.
MUCH less than leds do.

Haven't bought those old inefficient flickery things for years.

They are in fact more efficient than anything
but leds and arent flickery at all

They are to my eyes.

Your problem, I don't have that problem.

I find most car LEDs flickery too.

Ditto.

Odd you find one flickery and not the other,

I don't find any flickery. That's what I meant by the ditto.

I said I found most car LEDs flickery, you said ditto,

Yes.

meaning you also find the same things flickery as me - most car LEDs.

Nope, meaning that my comment on not finding
fluours flickery applied to the car leds too.

Ah, you were dittoing your own comment.

Yep.

Silly.

What's how the ditto is normally used.

Ditto normally refers to the immediately preceding thing, which in this case was MY comment.

what about CRT monitors with low Hz?

Not flickery either.

You must have slow eyes.

Normal eyes. Most don't find fluoros flickery or car leds either.

You are a freak as, usual.

Many do,

There are plenty of freaks. Always have been, always will be.

You're just jealous of people with faster eyes.

Some are freaky enough to run around
with no clothes on in the middle of winter.

You mean able to / tough enough.

easy to google for people moaning about car lights.

FAR more don't.

It's enough to mean the cars should be built properly instead of saving a quid on cheap **** lighting power supplies.

Having something that works faster makes you better.

Nope, just a freak.

Faster is ALWAYS better.

Pigeons have even better sight than us and can't watch television.

Just as well, TV progs for pigeons would be a tad boring.

Rubbish.

and MUCH cheaper per decade than leds too.

LEDs are cheaper per decade

Nope.

due to halving the power consumption.

The lights arent on enough to pay for themselves that way.

If they aren't on much, the LEDs will also last longer.

LEDs don't die due to time on, its only the other technologys that do
that.

They are quoted as hours of usage, usually 100,000 if not in a confined
unit.

That number is clearly straight from someone's arse and isnt measured.

It's from the manufacturer of the LED.

From someone who works for that manufacturer's arse.

It's a specification. If they lied, they'd lose business.

And if it is true, that's 12 years so the ones you use are lousy value
compared with long tube fluoros which usually last me about 20 years and
cost much less.

12 years on 24 hours a day, which yours aren't.

You have no idea about mine.

You've already told me.

And how much power would you use over 100,000 hours?

Well?

I am planning to have a very long strip
of leds for the main kitchen benches but
haven't gotten around to doing that yet.

I use these, they connect together:
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272393435045

Yeah, saved that the first time you mentioned them.
Not keen on your previous comment about them dying tho.

No, those don't die.

OK, but they don't ship here for a sensible price and I'm not keen
on the aesthetics either. Silly making them look like long tube
fluoros, they should be simple say 10mm square cross section.

I'd get that result with the flexible strips of leds glued
into a 10mm U channel of aluminium or stainless steel.

Could do, but these are quicker for me to put up.

They wouldn't be because you need at least two screws per segment.

One.

Still much more than with my approach.

Screws are easy to put up.

Not when there is nothing to screw them into.

More fol you for having a **** ceiling.

The ones I've had die are the GU10 spots with the LEDs too close
together and they run too hot.

And it would be more convenient to get a very long length
of aluminium U section about 10mm across about 3.5m
long and have those led flexible strips in those, glued in.
But I'm not keen on the life people currently get with
those or the price of the ones with only 5 year warrantys.

The ones I linked to are so easy to put up.

Not as easy as my approach, just two screws into
the bottom of the roof beams which have the flange
inside the ceiling, per 3.5m length of U section.

The modular approach of yours wouldn't work
anything like as well because the roof beams
are on 4' centers and I'd need two screws for
each 4' module and 3 of those in each row, two
rows. Not clear if its bright enough either, the
ceiling is 8'8". Might need two rows in each row.

Trivially easy to have the U channel say 15mm wide
and have two rows of the flexible led strips glued into
each channel if that is needed to be bright enough.

Wouldn't need the modular approach or
anything like the same total cost either.

I just use one clip per 2 foot strip screwed into the ceiling,

Makes no sense to have 2 foot strips in my situation where I need
the strips to be 20' long in the kitchen and 40' long in the main room.

In my kitchen I just plugged several together.

Sure, but there isnt any way to have one screw per 2' strip.

Yes there is.

No there isnt.

Yes, one screw per clip, one clip per 2 foot strip of LEDs.

Clips (one screw each) 2 feet apart, in about the centre of each strip.

Nothing to screw it into.

My ceiling accepts screws. Wood cladding or plasterboard takes screws.

And my ceiling is drop in 4' wide polyfoam paper faced panels.

Ah, cheap ****.

Nothing cheap about it and it isnt **** either,
each panel is completely rigid, no sagging at all.

But you can't screw anything into it,

Wrong, as always. The bottom of the I beams are fine.

But I can screw anywhere.

rather useless.

Wrong, as always. Leaves conventional ceilings for dead.

But I can screw anywhere.

That's why I hate plasterboard walls, not as easy putting up pictures as
on wood walls.

I don't bother with pictures.

Luddite.

Cant screw into those every 2'.

Must be a joist every 2 feet.

Nope, every 4' as I said. These are galvanised steel
I beams with one of the top flanges missing.

Makes a lot more sense to have just 2 screws to hold the 20' of channel
onto the bottom of the I beams that the 4' paper faced poly foam panels
drop into.

don't have to be central, they plug into each other and support each
other.

20' and 40' channel works better.

I'd say the best thing would be what I linked to, but longer versions,
must be some somewhere.

Even 4' ones would still be a lot more farting around mounting them
that a single 20' piece of U channel with just a couple of screws into
the
bottom flange of the galvanised steel I beams which are at 4' centers.

Your way sounds complicated to me.

Because you have never had a clue.

You have extra stuff to set up.

Nope, just two screws per 20' piece of channel, leaves yours for dead.

I just use the supplied clips and connectors.

The strips of leds come with connectors and
all you have to do is glue it into the channel.

I don't have to have a channel.

Or you can get LED tubes that fit into existing fluor fittings, just
take the ballast out.

The fluoros arent where the 20' strip of led would be and two 20' led
strips
in a 10mm U channel over each of the long benches would look vastly
better.
Much better than your leds too, they pretend to be fluoros. Stupid
approach.
The new technology should be done the best way it can be, not pretending
to be the previous technology.

LEDs are best in strips like mine, then they don't overheat.

The flexible strips of LEDs in channel would have exactly
the same number of leds per foot as yours and have an
aluminium channel behind them so will dissipate heat
even better than yours which have plastic behind them
and are vastly better to mount, just 2 screws per 20' strip.

And no connectors between each strip to fail either.

They don't fail any more than any other electrical connector.

--
Women are like a pack of cards... you need a heart to love them, diamonds to marry them, a club to kill them and a spade to bury them.

"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 22 Oct 2016 22:42:13 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 22 Oct 2016 18:27:14 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news On Sat, 22 Oct 2016 07:13:48 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 02:58:19 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 01:33:44 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 23:10:49 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Bod wrote
Another Dave wrote
Another Dave wrote

I'm the OP.

I'm working on the assumption the landline broadband will
be
up
even
if
my house is down. I thought it was a requirement that the
landline
had
a battery backup for emergency use by a landline-powered
phone,
although admittedly the broadband may not have. Time will
tell.

If I can't see a fuse in the battery circuit I'll put one
in
and
consider my options if it blows.

Ok, but...:

It hasn't worked that way with all of the routers that I've
had.
When the power supply went off the router went off with it.

Trivially fixed by having the router on the same UPS etc
that the desktop etc is power from when the mains is down.

I do that to avoid 2 second brownouts that crash the PC (or
the
router).

I was going to, but then they stopped happening after the
rebuilt
the local distribution switchyard which the 330KV line feeds.

Also because my voltage varies from 245V to 265V, and they
refuse
to
fix
it.

I haven't bothered to measure mine and
wouldn't want to run a UPS full time for that.

I only checked because the UPS warning light kept coming on,
telling
me
it
was dropping the voltage.

The UPS keeps the voltage more sensible.

Yep.

I wired the house lights to it too

Massive amount of work to do that here.

Not really. You just take an output from the UPS and lead it to
the
fusebox.

That alone is a non trivial exercise and I havent got all the
lights
on
the once circuit anyway, and quite a few of them are 150W PA38s
too.

It's a very trivial exercise,

Not when you want a decent result it isnt.

Mine works fine.

Its an abortion and illegal to boot.

It's my house, I'll do as I wish. And it's not actually illegal in
Scotland, only England.

Wrong with that last.

Only required if you're building an extension etc:
http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org...ions/scotland/

Doesn't say you can do anything you like and the stupidity you did.

It lists what you can't do.

That's a lie.

What on earth makes you think the law cares what happens in MY OWN HOME?

Because that is what the building regulations are about, stupid.

A 5A flex

Nothing like good enough for when all those PAR38s are on at once.

If you used LEDs, not a problem, otherwise simply use a thicker
flex.

An even bigger abortion and even more illegal.

with a plug on one end goes into the multiway power strip the
computer's
plugged into. The other end feeds to a connector block I stuck
inside
the
fusebox, connecting straight to the lighting circuits (two of
them),
instead of them running off the fuses.

Non trivial to get into the meter box the way its done here.

You built your own house, what did you do wrong?

I didn't do anything wrong. All the wiring goes down the holes
in the concrete blocks.

Take the cover off the fusebox and access the relevant bits.

There is no cover, it has a big metal door and the problem
isnt access to the relevant bits, its how to get that cable into
the big metal box its in and still be legal, because currently the
meter reader opens that big metal door every time he reads the
meter. The box in on the outside wall of the house, in the back
yard and is read by the meter reader every 3 months.

The 3'x3' big metal box is set into the wall, it is bolted
into a 4" deep hole in the wall which has 4" concrete
blocks at the back of the box in the 8" thick block wall
there. The cables all come in thru the top of the meter
box which has its top with 1 course of 8" block above it.

Ah, so your fuses are outside. Odd way to do it.

Nope, that allows the meter to be read any time the meter reader
wants to do that and doesn't need anyone to let them into the house.

My METER is outside. My FUSEBOX is inside.

Plenty of them arent separated.

Why should these be in the same place? Most houses in the UK are like
this.

BULL****.

So why can't you tap into the wire once it's in the house?

There isnt just one wire for all the lights.

There isnt even just one light circuit either.

You can join onto it anywhere there's a light fixture, and simply
disconnect that fuse.

There isnt just one fuse.

Then two or three or whatever. I've got two.

So you ****ed up, as always.

and the LEDs last much longer now.

I'm mostly still using long tube fluoros.

Most of mine wore out.

None of mine have, and they are all
45 years old now, still in perfect condition.

Not the tubes themselves surely?

Sure, but they last 20+ years and cost peanuts to replace.
MUCH less than leds do.

Haven't bought those old inefficient flickery things for years.

They are in fact more efficient than anything
but leds and arent flickery at all

They are to my eyes.

Your problem, I don't have that problem.

I find most car LEDs flickery too.

Ditto.

Odd you find one flickery and not the other,

I don't find any flickery. That's what I meant by the ditto.

I said I found most car LEDs flickery, you said ditto,

Yes.

meaning you also find the same things flickery as me - most car LEDs.

Nope, meaning that my comment on not finding
fluours flickery applied to the car leds too.

Ah, you were dittoing your own comment.

Yep.

Silly.

What's how the ditto is normally used.

Ditto normally refers to the immediately preceding thing,

Wrong, as always.

which in this case was MY comment.

what about CRT monitors with low Hz?

Not flickery either.

You must have slow eyes.

Normal eyes. Most don't find fluoros flickery or car leds either.

You are a freak as, usual.

Many do,

There are plenty of freaks. Always have been, always will be.

You're just jealous of people with faster eyes.

Mindlessly silly. Why should anyone except a terminal ****wit be
jealous of freaks that see fluoros, car leds and TVs flickering ?

Some are freaky enough to run around
with no clothes on in the middle of winter.

You mean able to

Every is able to, they arent actually that stupid tho.

/ tough enough.

Stupid enough/attention seeking enough.

easy to google for people moaning about car lights.

FAR more don't.

It's enough to mean the cars should be built properly

They are.

instead of saving a quid on cheap **** lighting power supplies.

Doesn't save a cent.

Having something that works faster makes you better.

Nope, just a freak.

Faster is ALWAYS better.

It clearly isnt when you see fluoros, TVs and car leds flickering
and whine about that where google can see that, stupid.

Pigeons have even better sight than us and can't watch television.

Just as well, TV progs for pigeons would be a tad boring.

Rubbish.

TV showing the sort of rubbish pigeons are
into would be very boring indeed, stupid.

and MUCH cheaper per decade than leds too.

LEDs are cheaper per decade

Nope.

due to halving the power consumption.

The lights arent on enough to pay for themselves that way.

If they aren't on much, the LEDs will also last longer.

LEDs don't die due to time on, its only the other technologys that do
that.

They are quoted as hours of usage, usually 100,000 if not in a
confined
unit.

That number is clearly straight from someone's arse and isnt measured.

It's from the manufacturer of the LED.

From someone who works for that manufacturer's arse.

It's a specification. If they lied, they'd lose business.

Pigs arse they would given that it would take years to see they lied.

And if it is true, that's 12 years so the ones you use are lousy value
compared with long tube fluoros which usually last me about 20 years
and
cost much less.

12 years on 24 hours a day, which yours aren't.

You have no idea about mine.

You've already told me.

Like hell I did on that question.

And how much power would you use over 100,000 hours?

Well?

Work it out for yourself.

I am planning to have a very long strip
of leds for the main kitchen benches but
haven't gotten around to doing that yet.

I use these, they connect together:
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272393435045

Yeah, saved that the first time you mentioned them.
Not keen on your previous comment about them dying tho.

No, those don't die.

OK, but they don't ship here for a sensible price and I'm not keen
on the aesthetics either. Silly making them look like long tube
fluoros, they should be simple say 10mm square cross section.

I'd get that result with the flexible strips of leds glued
into a 10mm U channel of aluminium or stainless steel.

Could do, but these are quicker for me to put up.

They wouldn't be because you need at least two screws per segment.

One.

Still much more than with my approach.

Screws are easy to put up.

Not when there is nothing to screw them into.

More fol you for having a **** ceiling.

Leaves yours for dead.

The ones I've had die are the GU10 spots with the LEDs too close
together and they run too hot.

And it would be more convenient to get a very long length
of aluminium U section about 10mm across about 3.5m
long and have those led flexible strips in those, glued in.
But I'm not keen on the life people currently get with
those or the price of the ones with only 5 year warrantys.

The ones I linked to are so easy to put up.

Not as easy as my approach, just two screws into
the bottom of the roof beams which have the flange
inside the ceiling, per 3.5m length of U section.

The modular approach of yours wouldn't work
anything like as well because the roof beams
are on 4' centers and I'd need two screws for
each 4' module and 3 of those in each row, two
rows. Not clear if its bright enough either, the
ceiling is 8'8". Might need two rows in each row.

Trivially easy to have the U channel say 15mm wide
and have two rows of the flexible led strips glued into
each channel if that is needed to be bright enough.

Wouldn't need the modular approach or
anything like the same total cost either.

I just use one clip per 2 foot strip screwed into the ceiling,

Makes no sense to have 2 foot strips in my situation where I need
the strips to be 20' long in the kitchen and 40' long in the main
room.

In my kitchen I just plugged several together.

Sure, but there isnt any way to have one screw per 2' strip.

Yes there is.

No there isnt.

Yes, one screw per clip, one clip per 2 foot strip of LEDs.

And nothing to screw it into with half of them.

Clips (one screw each) 2 feet apart, in about the centre of each strip.

Nothing to screw it into.

My ceiling accepts screws. Wood cladding or plasterboard takes screws.

Only a terminal ****wit screws things into plasterboard.

And my ceiling is drop in 4' wide polyfoam paper faced panels.

Ah, cheap ****.

Nothing cheap about it and it isnt **** either,
each panel is completely rigid, no sagging at all.

But you can't screw anything into it,

Wrong, as always. The bottom of the I beams are fine.

But I can screw anywhere.

No you can't you snapped your dick off years ago.

That's why everyone ****es themselves laughing when you go streaking.

rather useless.

Wrong, as always. Leaves conventional ceilings for dead.

But I can screw anywhere.

No you can't you snapped your dick off years ago.

That's why everyone ****es themselves laughing when you go streaking.

That's why I hate plasterboard walls, not as easy putting up pictures as
on wood walls.

I don't bother with pictures.

Luddite.

****wit.

Cant screw into those every 2'.

Must be a joist every 2 feet.

Nope, every 4' as I said. These are galvanised steel
I beams with one of the top flanges missing.

Makes a lot more sense to have just 2 screws to hold the 20' of
channel
onto the bottom of the I beams that the 4' paper faced poly foam
panels
drop into.

don't have to be central, they plug into each other and support each
other.

20' and 40' channel works better.

I'd say the best thing would be what I linked to, but longer versions,
must be some somewhere.

Even 4' ones would still be a lot more farting around mounting them
that a single 20' piece of U channel with just a couple of screws into
the
bottom flange of the galvanised steel I beams which are at 4' centers.

Your way sounds complicated to me.

Because you have never had a clue.

You have extra stuff to set up.

Nope, just two screws per 20' piece of channel, leaves yours for dead.

I just use the supplied clips and connectors.

The strips of leds come with connectors and
all you have to do is glue it into the channel.

I don't have to have a channel.

But have fart around with those fake fluoros.

Or you can get LED tubes that fit into existing fluor fittings, just
take the ballast out.

The fluoros arent where the 20' strip of led would be and two 20' led
strips
in a 10mm U channel over each of the long benches would look vastly
better.
Much better than your leds too, they pretend to be fluoros. Stupid
approach.
The new technology should be done the best way it can be, not
pretending
to be the previous technology.

LEDs are best in strips like mine, then they don't overheat.

The flexible strips of LEDs in channel would have exactly
the same number of leds per foot as yours and have an
aluminium channel behind them so will dissipate heat
even better than yours which have plastic behind them
and are vastly better to mount, just 2 screws per 20' strip.

And no connectors between each strip to fail either.

They don't fail any more than any other electrical connector.

They fail much more than no connectors at all, stupid.