"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 20/10/2016 12:39, Another Dave wrote:
On 19/10/16 14:48, Another Dave wrote:

I'm the OP.

I'm working on the assumption the landline broadband will be up even if
my house is down. I thought it was a requirement that the landline had a
battery backup for emergency use by a landline-powered phone, although
admittedly the broadband may not have. Time will tell.

If I can't see a fuse in the battery circuit I'll put one in and
consider my options if it blows.

There is zero chance the broadband will have battery backup.

Thats a lie when the broadband is provided
by a DSLAM in the telephone exchange.

Do you pay extra for it to have?
They don't need to and they aren't a charity.

The telephone exchange already has the
battery backup and often a generator too.

Johnny B Good wrote :
The point of mentioning this is that I think keeping a 12v SLA on a
permanent 13.8v float charge year in, year out, does far more harm than
simply charging them right up on a 13.8v charger once a year and leaving
them sat on a shelf for the rest of the year.

That, I completely agree with. I used to keep my caravan, with its 12v
leisure battery parked in my drive with its 13.8v charger/SMPSU powered
up permanently. It went through batteries at a rate, failed due to
drying out, despite being sealed. Now I recharge every time the battery
has been used, for a couple of days, then a couple of days every few
months, or just prior to the caravan being used.


The big problem with lead acid batteries is finding the optimum float
charge voltage, too high and it'll suffer corrosion, too low and it
suffers sulphation.

Corrosion? Not sure what you mean, as said the electrolyte evaporates
due to being on a too high constant charge level.

On 20/10/16 19:05, Rod Speed wrote:


"Bod" wrote in message
...
On 20/10/2016 12:39, Another Dave wrote:
On 19/10/16 14:48, Another Dave wrote:

I'm the OP.

I'm working on the assumption the landline broadband will be up even if
my house is down. I thought it was a requirement that the landline had a
battery backup for emergency use by a landline-powered phone, although
admittedly the broadband may not have. Time will tell.

If I can't see a fuse in the battery circuit I'll put one in and
consider my options if it blows.

Another Dave

Ok, but...:

It hasn't worked that way with all of the routers that I've had.
When the power supply went off the router went off with it.

Trivially fixed by having the router on the same UPS etc
that the desktop etc is power from when the mains is down.

Yes.

The idea is to have modem, router, raspberry Pi (running Kodi), a 12V
television (21W) and some 12V LED lamps all on the UPS. All of these are
available because of my caravanning activities. There's also a log
burner, and a Gas cooker in the kitchen.

If it's successful I'll extend it to my study upstairs and use a Pi 3 as
my computer. I already have a low voltage monitor.

I live out in the sticks in a heavily wooded area. All the mains
supplies are up on poles and we fairly frequently get extended power
cuts (usually scheduled) as the electricity company cuts down branches.

Another Dave

--
Change nospam to techie

"Another Dave" wrote in message
...
On 20/10/16 19:05, Rod Speed wrote:


"Bod" wrote in message
...
On 20/10/2016 12:39, Another Dave wrote:
On 19/10/16 14:48, Another Dave wrote:

I'm the OP.

I'm working on the assumption the landline broadband will be up even if
my house is down. I thought it was a requirement that the landline had
a
battery backup for emergency use by a landline-powered phone, although
admittedly the broadband may not have. Time will tell.

If I can't see a fuse in the battery circuit I'll put one in and
consider my options if it blows.

Another Dave

Ok, but...:

It hasn't worked that way with all of the routers that I've had.
When the power supply went off the router went off with it.

Trivially fixed by having the router on the same UPS etc
that the desktop etc is power from when the mains is down.

Yes.

The idea is to have modem, router, raspberry Pi (running Kodi), a 12V
television (21W) and some 12V LED lamps all on the UPS. All of these are
available because of my caravanning activities. There's also a log burner,
and a Gas cooker in the kitchen.

If it's successful I'll extend it to my study upstairs and use a Pi 3 as
my computer. I already have a low voltage monitor.

I live out in the sticks in a heavily wooded area. All the mains supplies
are up on poles and we fairly frequently get extended power cuts (usually
scheduled) as the electricity company cuts down branches.

You might well have a problem tho if what the broadband is
provided via doesnt have battery backup. Be worth checking
if it stays up during a mains failure before you spend anything.

Ours dont turn the mains off when cutting down branches, they do that live.

Another Dave wrote:
To provide backup during power cuts (to my shame I can't live without
broadband) I'm thinking of buying one these:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/h8kw2ln

It's a UPS circuit designed to charge a lead acid battery (not supplied)
and to maintain 12V in case of a power cut. It seems to be ideal for my
purposes as I have an 85AH leisure battery to hand.

However the spec says, quaintly, "It is allowed to connect batteries
that is below 12V 20AH".

It's been decades since I did any electronics but I don't understand the
limit. Surely, other than that it will take a long time to charge a big
battery (of no concern to me), what harm can come from using the 85AH
battery? I will, of course, be sure not to exceed the current limit.

Another Dave

Build you own. ;-)

https://youtu.be/xcfd2Ncoeis

(UPS by Photonic Induction)

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 19/10/2016 14:48, Another Dave wrote:
To provide backup during power cuts (to my shame I can't live without
broadband) I'm thinking of buying one these:


To solve the same problem, I have contemplated buying one of these from
Amazon:

Mini-Box picoUPS - 100?micro-UPS système 12 V DC/Batterie backup system

(Search for: Mini-Box picoUPS)

It does much the same thing but does not have the metal cover.


--
Michael Chare

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 20/10/2016 19:48, Another Dave wrote:
On 20/10/16 19:05, Rod Speed wrote:


"Bod" wrote in message
...
On 20/10/2016 12:39, Another Dave wrote:
On 19/10/16 14:48, Another Dave wrote:

I'm the OP.

I'm working on the assumption the landline broadband will be up even if
my house is down. I thought it was a requirement that the landline
had a
battery backup for emergency use by a landline-powered phone, although
admittedly the broadband may not have. Time will tell.

If I can't see a fuse in the battery circuit I'll put one in and
consider my options if it blows.

Another Dave

Ok, but...:

It hasn't worked that way with all of the routers that I've had.
When the power supply went off the router went off with it.

Trivially fixed by having the router on the same UPS etc
that the desktop etc is power from when the mains is down.

Yes.

The idea is to have modem, router, raspberry Pi (running Kodi), a 12V
television (21W) and some 12V LED lamps all on the UPS. All of these are
available because of my caravanning activities. There's also a log
burner, and a Gas cooker in the kitchen.

If it's successful I'll extend it to my study upstairs and use a Pi 3 as
my computer. I already have a low voltage monitor.

I live out in the sticks in a heavily wooded area. All the mains
supplies are up on poles and we fairly frequently get extended power
cuts (usually scheduled) as the electricity company cuts down branches.

Another Dave


Where I live they just wait for the trees to fall onto the lines. We
have suffered several times. I would like to see the energy companies
made to pay a large penalty if they allow this to happen.


--
Michael Chare

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 20/10/2016 16:33, whisky-dave wrote:


Canal Boat owners know a lot about this which is why they like 200+Ah batteries and higher. secon

dhand taxi batteries are used if yuo cant afford the cost of new 200Ah
batts.
But if anyone thinks you can get 100Ah out of a 100Ah battery is wishing ba

tteries were 100% effcient even when new it just doesn't work like that.


Well they're daft then because a new 100Ah battery will beat a shagged
out 200Ah one.

Bill

On 20/10/2016 16:33, whisky-dave wrote:

secondhand taxi batteries are used if yuo cant afford the cost of new
200Ah batts.

Taxis don't have 200Ah batteries. 70 to 110Ah is normal.

Bill

On 20/10/2016 16:00, dennis@home wrote:

I'm working on the assumption the landline broadband will be up even if
my house is down. I thought it was a requirement that the landline had a
battery backup for emergency use by a landline-powered phone, although
admittedly the broadband may not have. Time will tell.
Why not just use your phone as a wifi hub?

Bill

On 20/10/2016 19:48, Another Dave wrote:

I live out in the sticks in a heavily wooded area. All the mains
supplies are up on poles and we fairly frequently get extended power
cuts (usually scheduled) as the electricity company cuts down branches.

For goodness sake man, buy a generator like the rest of us. You're
over-thinking it.

Bill

On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 19:05:44 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Bod" wrote in message
...
On 20/10/2016 12:39, Another Dave wrote:
On 19/10/16 14:48, Another Dave wrote:

I'm the OP.

I'm working on the assumption the landline broadband will be up even if
my house is down. I thought it was a requirement that the landline had a
battery backup for emergency use by a landline-powered phone, although
admittedly the broadband may not have. Time will tell.

If I can't see a fuse in the battery circuit I'll put one in and
consider my options if it blows.

Another Dave

Ok, but...:

It hasn't worked that way with all of the routers that I've had.
When the power supply went off the router went off with it.

Trivially fixed by having the router on the same UPS etc
that the desktop etc is power from when the mains is down.

I do that to avoid 2 second brownouts that crash the PC (or the router). Also because my voltage varies from 245V to 265V, and they refuse to fix it. The UPS keeps the voltage more sensible. I wired the house lights to it too and the LEDs last much longer now.

--
Sat opposite an Indian lady on the train today, she shut her eyes and stopped breathing. I thought she was dead, until I saw the red spot on her forehead and realised she was just on standby.

On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 20:03:01 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Another Dave" wrote in message
...
On 20/10/16 19:05, Rod Speed wrote:


"Bod" wrote in message
...
On 20/10/2016 12:39, Another Dave wrote:
On 19/10/16 14:48, Another Dave wrote:

I'm the OP.

I'm working on the assumption the landline broadband will be up even if
my house is down. I thought it was a requirement that the landline had
a
battery backup for emergency use by a landline-powered phone, although
admittedly the broadband may not have. Time will tell.

If I can't see a fuse in the battery circuit I'll put one in and
consider my options if it blows.

Another Dave

Ok, but...:

It hasn't worked that way with all of the routers that I've had.
When the power supply went off the router went off with it.

Trivially fixed by having the router on the same UPS etc
that the desktop etc is power from when the mains is down.

Yes.

The idea is to have modem, router, raspberry Pi (running Kodi), a 12V
television (21W) and some 12V LED lamps all on the UPS. All of these are
available because of my caravanning activities. There's also a log burner,
and a Gas cooker in the kitchen.

If it's successful I'll extend it to my study upstairs and use a Pi 3 as
my computer. I already have a low voltage monitor.

I live out in the sticks in a heavily wooded area. All the mains supplies
are up on poles and we fairly frequently get extended power cuts (usually
scheduled) as the electricity company cuts down branches.

You might well have a problem tho if what the broadband is
provided via doesnt have battery backup. Be worth checking
if it stays up during a mains failure before you spend anything.

Ours dont turn the mains off when cutting down branches, they do that live.

I thought they did in the UK too.

--
What does a Scotsman wear under his kilt?
Lipstick, if he's lucky.

On 20/10/2016 19:41, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Johnny B Good wrote :
The point of mentioning this is that I think keeping a 12v SLA on a
permanent 13.8v float charge year in, year out, does far more harm than
simply charging them right up on a 13.8v charger once a year and leaving
them sat on a shelf for the rest of the year.

The trickle charge voltage needs adjusting so that a fully charged
battery draws a minute fraction of an amp. Something like 0.001 to
0.003A. Charge the battery fully. Check the battery voltage immediately
after you disconnect the charger. Set the charger to that voltage. After
24 hours check the charge rate. Adjust the charger voltage to achieve
the above current rates. That works well.

The alternative is to use an intelligent charger. These also work well.

Bill

James Wilkinson Sword wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Bod wrote
Another Dave wrote
Another Dave wrote

I'm the OP.

I'm working on the assumption the landline broadband will be up even if
my house is down. I thought it was a requirement that the landline had
a battery backup for emergency use by a landline-powered phone,
although admittedly the broadband may not have. Time will tell.

If I can't see a fuse in the battery circuit I'll put one in and
consider my options if it blows.

Ok, but...:

It hasn't worked that way with all of the routers that I've had.
When the power supply went off the router went off with it.

Trivially fixed by having the router on the same UPS etc
that the desktop etc is power from when the mains is down.

I do that to avoid 2 second brownouts that crash the PC (or the router).

I was going to, but then they stopped happening after the rebuilt
the local distribution switchyard which the 330KV line feeds.

Also because my voltage varies from 245V to 265V, and they refuse to fix
it.

I haven't bothered to measure mine and
wouldn't want to run a UPS full time for that.

The UPS keeps the voltage more sensible.

Yep.

I wired the house lights to it too

Massive amount of work to do that here.

and the LEDs last much longer now.

I'm mostly still using long tube flours.

I am planning to have a very long strip
of leds for the main kitchen benches but
haven't gotten around to doing that yet.

"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 20:03:01 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Another Dave" wrote in message
...
On 20/10/16 19:05, Rod Speed wrote:


"Bod" wrote in message
...
On 20/10/2016 12:39, Another Dave wrote:
On 19/10/16 14:48, Another Dave wrote:

I'm the OP.

I'm working on the assumption the landline broadband will be up even
if
my house is down. I thought it was a requirement that the landline
had
a
battery backup for emergency use by a landline-powered phone,
although
admittedly the broadband may not have. Time will tell.

If I can't see a fuse in the battery circuit I'll put one in and
consider my options if it blows.

Another Dave

Ok, but...:

It hasn't worked that way with all of the routers that I've had.
When the power supply went off the router went off with it.

Trivially fixed by having the router on the same UPS etc
that the desktop etc is power from when the mains is down.

Yes.

The idea is to have modem, router, raspberry Pi (running Kodi), a 12V
television (21W) and some 12V LED lamps all on the UPS. All of these are
available because of my caravanning activities. There's also a log
burner,
and a Gas cooker in the kitchen.

If it's successful I'll extend it to my study upstairs and use a Pi 3 as
my computer. I already have a low voltage monitor.

I live out in the sticks in a heavily wooded area. All the mains
supplies
are up on poles and we fairly frequently get extended power cuts
(usually
scheduled) as the electricity company cuts down branches.

You might well have a problem tho if what the broadband is
provided via doesnt have battery backup. Be worth checking
if it stays up during a mains failure before you spend anything.

Ours dont turn the mains off when cutting down branches, they do that
live.

I thought they did in the UK too.

May just be his local operation with stupid ideas.

On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 23:10:49 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Bod wrote
Another Dave wrote
Another Dave wrote

I'm the OP.

I'm working on the assumption the landline broadband will be up even if
my house is down. I thought it was a requirement that the landline had
a battery backup for emergency use by a landline-powered phone,
although admittedly the broadband may not have. Time will tell.

If I can't see a fuse in the battery circuit I'll put one in and
consider my options if it blows.

Ok, but...:

It hasn't worked that way with all of the routers that I've had.
When the power supply went off the router went off with it.

Trivially fixed by having the router on the same UPS etc
that the desktop etc is power from when the mains is down.

I do that to avoid 2 second brownouts that crash the PC (or the router).

I was going to, but then they stopped happening after the rebuilt
the local distribution switchyard which the 330KV line feeds.

Also because my voltage varies from 245V to 265V, and they refuse to fix
it.

I haven't bothered to measure mine and
wouldn't want to run a UPS full time for that.

I only checked because the UPS warning light kept coming on, telling me it was dropping the voltage.

The UPS keeps the voltage more sensible.

Yep.

I wired the house lights to it too

Massive amount of work to do that here.

Not really. You just take an output from the UPS and lead it to the fusebox.

and the LEDs last much longer now.

I'm mostly still using long tube flours.

Most of mine wore out. Haven't bought those old inefficient flickery things for years.

I am planning to have a very long strip
of leds for the main kitchen benches but
haven't gotten around to doing that yet.

I use these, they connect together:
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272393435045

--
It turns out that several protected, rare birds in Germany have been feeding on a species of protected, rare fish. In response to this dilemma, exasperated German officials have decided to do the only thing that makes sense in this kind of a situation - kill all the environmentalists.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 20 October 2016 16:11:26 UTC+1, wrote:
On Thursday, 20 October 2016 03:41:26 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:

Which would depend on the Ah rating of the battery.

I'm not convinced that it can't supply 10A forever or close to that.

I thought lead acid was abotu 40% efficint as far ar geting Ah
calculated.

You thought wrong

That means a 100 Ah battery at 12V is only going to give you about 60Ah
at 12v then it starts to drop off especailly if connected to an
inverter, although it does depend on the condition of the battery and
cables. Canal Boat owners know a lot about this which is why they like
200+Ah batteries and higher. secondhand taxi batteries are used if yuo
cant afford the cost of new 200Ah batts. But if anyone thinks you can
get 100Ah out of a 100Ah battery is wishing batteries were 100% effcient
even when new it just doesn't work like that.

The most common method used to calculate a battery's capacity is called
the 20 hour rate way. With a 200 amp.hr battery, that would mean it would
run a load of 10 amps for 20 hours.

That has absolutely nothing to do with the efficiency or otherwise of the
battery. Merely its stated capacity. Although that does reduce with age.
Efficiency is basically energy in against energy out.

It is a standard test to determine the state of a battery. That its stated
capacity is still near that in practice.

--
*I dropped out of communism class because of lousy Marx.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 23:10:49 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Bod wrote
Another Dave wrote
Another Dave wrote

I'm the OP.

I'm working on the assumption the landline broadband will be up even
if
my house is down. I thought it was a requirement that the landline
had
a battery backup for emergency use by a landline-powered phone,
although admittedly the broadband may not have. Time will tell.

If I can't see a fuse in the battery circuit I'll put one in and
consider my options if it blows.

Ok, but...:

It hasn't worked that way with all of the routers that I've had.
When the power supply went off the router went off with it.

Trivially fixed by having the router on the same UPS etc
that the desktop etc is power from when the mains is down.

I do that to avoid 2 second brownouts that crash the PC (or the router).

I was going to, but then they stopped happening after the rebuilt
the local distribution switchyard which the 330KV line feeds.

Also because my voltage varies from 245V to 265V, and they refuse to fix
it.

I haven't bothered to measure mine and
wouldn't want to run a UPS full time for that.

I only checked because the UPS warning light kept coming on, telling me it
was dropping the voltage.

The UPS keeps the voltage more sensible.

Yep.

I wired the house lights to it too

Massive amount of work to do that here.

Not really. You just take an output from the UPS and lead it to the
fusebox.

That alone is a non trivial exercise and I havent got all the lights on
the once circuit anyway, and quite a few of them are 150W PA38s too.

and the LEDs last much longer now.

I'm mostly still using long tube fluoros.

Most of mine wore out.

None of mine have, and they are all
45 years old now, still in perfect condition.

Haven't bought those old inefficient flickery things for years.

They are in fact more efficient than anything
but leds and arent flickery at all and MUCH
cheaper per decade than leds too.

I am planning to have a very long strip
of leds for the main kitchen benches but
haven't gotten around to doing that yet.

I use these, they connect together:
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272393435045

Yeah, saved that the first time you mentioned them.
Not keen on your previous comment about them dying tho.

And it would be more convenient to get a very long length
of aluminium U section about 10mm across about 3.5m
long and have those led flexible strips in those, glued in.
But I'm not keen on the life people currently get with
those or the price of the ones with only 5 year warrantys.

On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 01:33:44 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 23:10:49 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Bod wrote
Another Dave wrote
Another Dave wrote

I'm the OP.

I'm working on the assumption the landline broadband will be up even
if
my house is down. I thought it was a requirement that the landline
had
a battery backup for emergency use by a landline-powered phone,
although admittedly the broadband may not have. Time will tell.

If I can't see a fuse in the battery circuit I'll put one in and
consider my options if it blows.

Ok, but...:

It hasn't worked that way with all of the routers that I've had.
When the power supply went off the router went off with it.

Trivially fixed by having the router on the same UPS etc
that the desktop etc is power from when the mains is down.

I do that to avoid 2 second brownouts that crash the PC (or the router).

I was going to, but then they stopped happening after the rebuilt
the local distribution switchyard which the 330KV line feeds.

Also because my voltage varies from 245V to 265V, and they refuse to fix
it.

I haven't bothered to measure mine and
wouldn't want to run a UPS full time for that.

I only checked because the UPS warning light kept coming on, telling me it
was dropping the voltage.

The UPS keeps the voltage more sensible.

Yep.

I wired the house lights to it too

Massive amount of work to do that here.

Not really. You just take an output from the UPS and lead it to the
fusebox.

That alone is a non trivial exercise and I havent got all the lights on
the once circuit anyway, and quite a few of them are 150W PA38s too.

It's a very trivial exercise, A 5A flex with a plug on one end goes into the multiway power strip the computer's plugged into. The other end feeds to a connector block I stuck inside the fusebox, connecting straight to the lighting circuits (two of them), instead of them running off the fuses.

and the LEDs last much longer now.

I'm mostly still using long tube fluoros.

Most of mine wore out.

None of mine have, and they are all
45 years old now, still in perfect condition.

Not the tubes themselves surely?

Haven't bought those old inefficient flickery things for years.

They are in fact more efficient than anything
but leds and arent flickery at all

They are to my eyes. I find most car LEDs flickery too.

and MUCH cheaper per decade than leds too.

LEDs are cheaper per decade due to halving the power consumption.

I am planning to have a very long strip
of leds for the main kitchen benches but
haven't gotten around to doing that yet.

I use these, they connect together:
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272393435045

Yeah, saved that the first time you mentioned them.
Not keen on your previous comment about them dying tho.

No, those don't die. The ones I've had die are the GU10 spots with the LEDs too close together and they run too hot.

And it would be more convenient to get a very long length
of aluminium U section about 10mm across about 3.5m
long and have those led flexible strips in those, glued in.
But I'm not keen on the life people currently get with
those or the price of the ones with only 5 year warrantys.

The ones I linked to are so easy to put up.

--
O'Hare Approach Control to a 747: "United 329 heavy, your traffic is a Fokker, one o'clock, three miles, Eastbound."
United 239: "Approach, I've always wanted to say this... I've got the little Fokker in sight."

"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 01:33:44 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 23:10:49 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Bod wrote
Another Dave wrote
Another Dave wrote

I'm the OP.

I'm working on the assumption the landline broadband will be up
even
if
my house is down. I thought it was a requirement that the landline
had
a battery backup for emergency use by a landline-powered phone,
although admittedly the broadband may not have. Time will tell.

If I can't see a fuse in the battery circuit I'll put one in and
consider my options if it blows.

Ok, but...:

It hasn't worked that way with all of the routers that I've had.
When the power supply went off the router went off with it.

Trivially fixed by having the router on the same UPS etc
that the desktop etc is power from when the mains is down.

I do that to avoid 2 second brownouts that crash the PC (or the
router).

I was going to, but then they stopped happening after the rebuilt
the local distribution switchyard which the 330KV line feeds.

Also because my voltage varies from 245V to 265V, and they refuse to
fix
it.

I haven't bothered to measure mine and
wouldn't want to run a UPS full time for that.

I only checked because the UPS warning light kept coming on, telling me
it
was dropping the voltage.

The UPS keeps the voltage more sensible.

Yep.

I wired the house lights to it too

Massive amount of work to do that here.

Not really. You just take an output from the UPS and lead it to the
fusebox.

That alone is a non trivial exercise and I havent got all the lights on
the once circuit anyway, and quite a few of them are 150W PA38s too.

It's a very trivial exercise,

Not when you want a decent result it isnt.

A 5A flex

Nothing like good enough for when all those PAR38s are on at once.

with a plug on one end goes into the multiway power strip the computer's
plugged into. The other end feeds to a connector block I stuck inside the
fusebox, connecting straight to the lighting circuits (two of them),
instead of them running off the fuses.

Non trivial to get into the meter box the way its done here.

and the LEDs last much longer now.

I'm mostly still using long tube fluoros.

Most of mine wore out.

None of mine have, and they are all
45 years old now, still in perfect condition.

Not the tubes themselves surely?

Sure, but they last 20+ years and cost peanuts to replace.
MUCH less than leds do.

Haven't bought those old inefficient flickery things for years.

They are in fact more efficient than anything
but leds and arent flickery at all

They are to my eyes.

Your problem, I don't have that problem.

I find most car LEDs flickery too.

Ditto.

and MUCH cheaper per decade than leds too.

LEDs are cheaper per decade

Nope.

due to halving the power consumption.

The lights arent on enough to pay for themselves that way.

I am planning to have a very long strip
of leds for the main kitchen benches but
haven't gotten around to doing that yet.

I use these, they connect together:
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272393435045

Yeah, saved that the first time you mentioned them.
Not keen on your previous comment about them dying tho.

No, those don't die.

OK, but they don't ship here for a sensible price and I'm not keen
on the aesthetics either. Silly making them look like long tube
fluoros, they should be simple say 10mm square cross section.

I'd get that result with the flexible strips of leds glued
into a 10mm U channel of aluminium or stainless steel.

The ones I've had die are the GU10 spots with the LEDs too close together
and they run too hot.

And it would be more convenient to get a very long length
of aluminium U section about 10mm across about 3.5m
long and have those led flexible strips in those, glued in.
But I'm not keen on the life people currently get with
those or the price of the ones with only 5 year warrantys.

The ones I linked to are so easy to put up.

Not as easy as my approach, just two screws into
the bottom of the roof beams which have the flange
inside the ceiling, per 3.5m length of U section.

The modular approach of yours wouldn't work
anything like as well because the roof beams
are on 4' centers and I'd need two screws for
each 4' module and 3 of those in each row, two
rows. Not clear if its bright enough either, the
ceiling is 8'8". Might need two rows in each row.

Trivially easy to have the U channel say 15mm wide
and have two rows of the flexible led strips glued into
each channel if that is needed to be bright enough.

Wouldn't need the modular approach or
anything like the same total cost either.

On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 19:41:11 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Johnny B Good wrote :
The point of mentioning this is that I think keeping a 12v SLA on a
permanent 13.8v float charge year in, year out, does far more harm than
simply charging them right up on a 13.8v charger once a year and
leaving them sat on a shelf for the rest of the year.

That, I completely agree with. I used to keep my caravan, with its 12v
leisure battery parked in my drive with its 13.8v charger/SMPSU powered
up permanently. It went through batteries at a rate, failed due to
drying out, despite being sealed. Now I recharge every time the battery
has been used, for a couple of days, then a couple of days every few
months, or just prior to the caravan being used.


The big problem with lead acid batteries is finding the optimum float
charge voltage, too high and it'll suffer corrosion, too low and it
suffers sulphation.

Corrosion? Not sure what you mean, as said the electrolyte evaporates
due to being on a too high constant charge level.

The corrosion problem is confined to the positive plates of modern paste
filled lead alloy grid construction (presumably there's much less of a
problem with the negative plates when the fully charged state is pure
lead).

The wikipedia article he

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead€“acid_battery

explains this better than I can.

Incidentally, I've changed my mind about using cheap car batteries now
that I've re-read that article. It seems the problem with extremely (and
surprisingly) short service life under seemingly the most benign of
conditions is not, in this case, the result of excessive float charge
voltage so much as a lack of stirring of the electrolyte to prevent
stratification.

When used for their intended purpose, the accelerations (due to
acceleration, braking and cornering) cause the electrolyte to slosh about
and keep it thoroughly mixed. I suppose I could make up a rocking
platform to mount the batteries upon, driven by a small electric motor to
provide the necessary agitation but that seems an extra complication too
far. However, if I can snaffle another bargain set of batteries out of my
local car breakers/spares dealer, I might reconsider this option. :-)

It seems my best bet is to find a supplier that doesn't charge the UPS
battery pack price premium and invest in a decent set of 25AH Gel SLAs
(and reduce the float charge voltage at 20 °C to 53.52 volts as well). A
good source of such 'battery bargains' could often be found at major
amateur radio (mobile) rallies so I might hang on until the next major
rally to try out my luck with the battery specialists.

An alternative to using 25AH or larger capacity SLAs would be to fit
12AH SLAs and invest in a 3KVA inverter based genset featuring eco-
throttle control. The last time I looked several years ago, I saw prices
as low as 600 quid for some brands of this genset type (four times what I
paid for a cheap Aldi 2.8KVA emergency genset several years ago now which
proved totally unsuited due to capacitive loading by the SmartUPS2000
causing the genset to overvolt beyond the UPS's line interactive voltage
bucking range - the genset overvolting north of the 275vrms mark in this
case and a problem common to *all* such gensets).

For anyone contemplating such a genset based emergency power backup
solution, I'd *strongly* advise against investing in such a basic genset
(the type that drives the AC generator at a fixed 3000/3600rpm to
generate the required 50/60Hz mains voltage). The only type that is
immune to such capacitive load induced voltage instability is the
inverter type where a high efficiency permanent magnet generator is used
to feed a mains inverter with a dc voltage, allowing the engine speed to
be varied according to power demand.

The Old Skool type gensets whilst ok with resistive loads such as
incandescent lamps and able to cope with inductive loads such as pump
motors and the less inductive loads from universal AC motors used in
vacuum cleaners and washing machines, I suspect the increasing use of
capacitively ballasted LED lamps (capacitor volt dropper circuit) might
be sufficient to cause problems *before* you even get as far as
connecting the more critical and capacitive load from your IT kit.

If you're going for the luxury of a backup power system that can do more
than provide you with a 15 to 30 minute margin by which to properly shut
down your PCs[1] and allow you to ride out an extended mains outage,
you'll need the more expensive inverter type genset. The basic, 'cheap as
chips' Aldi bargain gensets simply don't cut the mustard with today's
domestic electricity loads.

[1] Indeed, if you are unfortunate enough to be running Windows 10 on
your desktop PC, you might well find yourself caught out by an unplanned
and protracted update that cannot be interrupted without causing
additional out of service time. :-(

--
Johnny B Good

On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 22:12:20 +0100, Bill Wright wrote:

On 20/10/2016 19:48, Another Dave wrote:

I live out in the sticks in a heavily wooded area. All the mains
supplies are up on poles and we fairly frequently get extended power
cuts (usually scheduled) as the electricity company cuts down branches.

For goodness sake man, buy a generator like the rest of us. You're
over-thinking it.


+1

But don't waste money on an Old Skool type if you have relamped the
house with LED lamps *and* hope to keep your IT kit running as well. Play
safe and invest in an inverter type genset with eco-throttle (more fuel
efficient and quieter during low loading periods as well as immunity
against capacitive loading induced voltage instability common to all Old
Skool gensets).

--
Johnny B Good

On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 02:11:43 GMT, Johnny B Good
wrote:




If you're going for the luxury of a backup power system that can do more
than provide you with a 15 to 30 minute margin by which to properly shut
down your PCs[1] and allow you to ride out an extended mains outage,
you'll need the more expensive inverter type genset. The basic, 'cheap as
chips' Aldi bargain gensets simply don't cut the mustard with today's
domestic electricity loads.

Lidl have sold an Inverter type on occasions , I picked one up a
couple of months ago. At only 1200 watts peak.1000 continous it would
be of limited use for many but about the only situation we could not
cover in a long power cut is the loss of the deep freeze contents with
the other needs of warmth and cooking provided by the wood burner and
lighting by great,great grandparents oil lamps.
It was only £99 compared to its normal £129 so just preventing the
loss of one freezer load would seen that covered. Would have no
hesitation in running a freezer from yonks ago on our old genny which
is still available for appropriate loads but this modern freezer with
electronics within is probably a bit more delicate than just a hefty
compressor and a mechanical thermostat.

Thought I had missed the last one in lidl when I went looking but it
is so small someone had covered the last one under a pile of coats.

http://leaflet007.co.uk/parkside-inv...pril-2016.html
Probably will come around again.

G.Harman

In article ,
wrote:
On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 02:11:43 GMT, Johnny B Good
wrote:




If you're going for the luxury of a backup power system that can do
more than provide you with a 15 to 30 minute margin by which to
properly shut down your PCs[1] and allow you to ride out an extended
mains outage, you'll need the more expensive inverter type genset. The
basic, 'cheap as chips' Aldi bargain gensets simply don't cut the
mustard with today's domestic electricity loads.

Lidl have sold an Inverter type on occasions , I picked one up a couple
of months ago. At only 1200 watts peak.1000 continous it would be of
limited use for many but about the only situation we could not cover in a
long power cut is the loss of the deep freeze contents with the other
needs of warmth and cooking provided by the wood burner and lighting by
great,great grandparents oil lamps. It was only £99 compared to its
normal £129 so just preventing the loss of one freezer load would seen
that covered. Would have no hesitation in running a freezer from yonks
ago on our old genny which is still available for appropriate loads but
this modern freezer with electronics within is probably a bit more
delicate than just a hefty compressor and a mechanical thermostat.

In my case the important use of electricity is to keep the heating system
going. The Boiler needs a limited amount of power and so does the pump. It
might be good to power a radio, too, to save batteries.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 21/10/2016 00:28, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

The most common method used to calculate a battery's capacity is called
the 20 hour rate way. With a 200 amp.hr battery, that would mean it would
run a load of 10 amps for 20 hours.

As long as the specs are being honest about the end point voltage used
when tested. Usually given as 10.50V IIRC. Not that you'd want to
discharge a standard lead acid battery that low if it's at all avoidable.

And also remembering that it doesn't automatically mean 100A for 2
hours...

On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 10:53:51 +0100, damduck-egg wrote:

On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 02:11:43 GMT, Johnny B Good
wrote:




If you're going for the luxury of a backup power system that can do
more
than provide you with a 15 to 30 minute margin by which to properly shut
down your PCs[1] and allow you to ride out an extended mains outage,
you'll need the more expensive inverter type genset. The basic, 'cheap
as chips' Aldi bargain gensets simply don't cut the mustard with today's
domestic electricity loads.

Lidl have sold an Inverter type on occasions , I picked one up a couple
of months ago. At only 1200 watts peak.1000 continous it would be of
limited use for many but about the only situation we could not cover in
a long power cut is the loss of the deep freeze contents with the other
needs of warmth and cooking provided by the wood burner and lighting by
great,great grandparents oil lamps.

I knew about these 'cheap as chips' inverter gensets but the ones I saw
(in Aldi) lacked the one desirable feature that the use of an inverter
allows, "Eco-throttle"[1], so I disregarded it out of hand for that
egregious omission alone (quite apart from the fact that its rated output
was so ludicrously tiny - a case of "All bluster and no action" - if
you're going to put up with all the faff and noise of an emergency genset,
at least let it be for a worthwhile benefit).

It was only £99 compared to its normal £129 so just preventing the loss
of one freezer load would seen that covered. Would have no hesitation
in running a freezer from yonks ago on our old genny which is still
available for appropriate loads but this modern freezer with electronics
within is probably a bit more delicate than just a hefty compressor and
a mechanical thermostat.

Thought I had missed the last one in lidl when I went looking but it
is so small someone had covered the last one under a pile of coats.

They're not called "Suitcase Generators" for nothing. :-)

Mind you, this one seems a particularly "Industrial" and noisy example
of the breed with a 95dBA SPL rating, assuming it's the PGI 1200 a1
referenced below[1].


http://leaflet007.co.uk/parkside-inv...-lidl-on-25th-
april-2016.html
Probably will come around again.


And, once again, I'd pass on that offer[2]. Although a 1.2KVA inverter
genset would be *just* sufficient to supplement the 2KVA SmartUPS in
regard of the load presented by my IT kit, I'd rather be using a
3.5KVA/3KW continuously rated inverter genset with eco-throttle to give
me not only additional capacity to run the houselights and fridge/freezer
and keep the CH going but also give an extra margin of capacity to reduce
the risk of overload induced shutdowns.

In all probability, a 3.5KVA rated eco-throttled inverter is likely to
use barely any more fuel, compared to that Aldididdle unit I was checking
out some 6 to 12 months back, when powering a 1KW/1.2KVA load (and is
more likely to be the quieter of the two under such a partial load).

[1] If it's the PGI 1200 a1 as described he

http://www.bricovideo.ovh/video/prod...l/uk/inverter-
generator-parkside-pgi-1200-lidl-test-advice-price-manual-technical-data-
video.html

then it looks like you got yourself a higher specced version than the
ones being sold in (presumably) Aldi stores some 6 to 12 months ago. When
I searched for some hard facts (as you inevitably have to with high tech
Aldididdle product), I eventually discovered that it lacked "eco-
throttle" which put it completely out of the running as far as I was
concerned.

[2] Actually, if they do become available at that price (99quid), I think
I'd be tempted into buying one to experiment with (especially if it
*does* feature eco-throttle as per the PGI 1200 a1). It can act as a
reserve backup to a quieter 3.5KVA eco-throttled inverter genset when I
eventually do get hold of one at an even more reasonable price than the
599 quid 'bargain' pricepoint I last saw them at a few years back.

--
Johnny B Good

In article ,
Lee wrote:
On 21/10/2016 00:28, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

The most common method used to calculate a battery's capacity is
called the 20 hour rate way. With a 200 amp.hr battery, that would
mean it would run a load of 10 amps for 20 hours.

As long as the specs are being honest about the end point voltage used
when tested. Usually given as 10.50V IIRC. Not that you'd want to
discharge a standard lead acid battery that low if it's at all avoidable.

10.5v under load is the accepted figure. And yes, any lead acid will have
a longer life if not discharged to that.

And also remembering that it doesn't automatically mean 100A for 2
hours...

Quite.

I have a very sophisticated (and expensive) lead acid battery tester. It
uses various parameters to calculate the actual capacity of the battery on
test. And a good one (from a quality source) will read what it says in the
spec.

--
*A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 21/10/2016 14:38, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Lee wrote:
On 21/10/2016 00:28, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

The most common method used to calculate a battery's capacity is
called the 20 hour rate way. With a 200 amp.hr battery, that would
mean it would run a load of 10 amps for 20 hours.

As long as the specs are being honest about the end point voltage used
when tested. Usually given as 10.50V IIRC. Not that you'd want to
discharge a standard lead acid battery that low if it's at all avoidable.

10.5v under load is the accepted figure. And yes, any lead acid will have
a longer life if not discharged to that.

And also remembering that it doesn't automatically mean 100A for 2
hours...

Quite.

I have a very sophisticated (and expensive) lead acid battery tester. It
uses various parameters to calculate the actual capacity of the battery on
test. And a good one (from a quality source) will read what it says in the
spec.


Yes the "quality source" part, We had one of those testers where I used
to work and the "budget" batteries we tested didn't always agree with
what was printed on them.
The likes of Yaesu and Bosch always did.
Funny that

On 21/10/2016 15:25, Lee wrote:

The likes of Yaesu

That was a weird auto correct, I was sure I'd typed from Yuasa...

Like many things automotive, I don't think there are that many actual
manufacturers of lead acid batteries anyway.
Lots of badge engineering going on, even with some of the "known" brands.

On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 02:58:19 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 01:33:44 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 23:10:49 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Bod wrote
Another Dave wrote
Another Dave wrote

I'm the OP.

I'm working on the assumption the landline broadband will be up
even
if
my house is down. I thought it was a requirement that the landline
had
a battery backup for emergency use by a landline-powered phone,
although admittedly the broadband may not have. Time will tell.

If I can't see a fuse in the battery circuit I'll put one in and
consider my options if it blows.

Ok, but...:

It hasn't worked that way with all of the routers that I've had.
When the power supply went off the router went off with it.

Trivially fixed by having the router on the same UPS etc
that the desktop etc is power from when the mains is down.

I do that to avoid 2 second brownouts that crash the PC (or the
router).

I was going to, but then they stopped happening after the rebuilt
the local distribution switchyard which the 330KV line feeds.

Also because my voltage varies from 245V to 265V, and they refuse to
fix
it.

I haven't bothered to measure mine and
wouldn't want to run a UPS full time for that.

I only checked because the UPS warning light kept coming on, telling me
it
was dropping the voltage.

The UPS keeps the voltage more sensible.

Yep.

I wired the house lights to it too

Massive amount of work to do that here.

Not really. You just take an output from the UPS and lead it to the
fusebox.

That alone is a non trivial exercise and I havent got all the lights on
the once circuit anyway, and quite a few of them are 150W PA38s too.

It's a very trivial exercise,

Not when you want a decent result it isnt.

Mine works fine.

A 5A flex

Nothing like good enough for when all those PAR38s are on at once.

If you used LEDs, not a problem, otherwise simply use a thicker flex.

with a plug on one end goes into the multiway power strip the computer's
plugged into. The other end feeds to a connector block I stuck inside the
fusebox, connecting straight to the lighting circuits (two of them),
instead of them running off the fuses.

Non trivial to get into the meter box the way its done here.

You built your own house, what did you do wrong?

and the LEDs last much longer now.

I'm mostly still using long tube fluoros.

Most of mine wore out.

None of mine have, and they are all
45 years old now, still in perfect condition.

Not the tubes themselves surely?

Sure, but they last 20+ years and cost peanuts to replace.
MUCH less than leds do.

Haven't bought those old inefficient flickery things for years.

They are in fact more efficient than anything
but leds and arent flickery at all

They are to my eyes.

Your problem, I don't have that problem.

I find most car LEDs flickery too.

Ditto.

Odd you find one flickery and not the other, what about CRT monitors with low Hz?

and MUCH cheaper per decade than leds too.

LEDs are cheaper per decade

Nope.

due to halving the power consumption.

The lights arent on enough to pay for themselves that way.

If they aren't on much, the LEDs will also last longer.

I am planning to have a very long strip
of leds for the main kitchen benches but
haven't gotten around to doing that yet.

I use these, they connect together:
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272393435045

Yeah, saved that the first time you mentioned them.
Not keen on your previous comment about them dying tho.

No, those don't die.

OK, but they don't ship here for a sensible price and I'm not keen
on the aesthetics either. Silly making them look like long tube
fluoros, they should be simple say 10mm square cross section.

I'd get that result with the flexible strips of leds glued
into a 10mm U channel of aluminium or stainless steel.

Could do, but these are quicker for me to put up.

The ones I've had die are the GU10 spots with the LEDs too close together
and they run too hot.

And it would be more convenient to get a very long length
of aluminium U section about 10mm across about 3.5m
long and have those led flexible strips in those, glued in.
But I'm not keen on the life people currently get with
those or the price of the ones with only 5 year warrantys.

The ones I linked to are so easy to put up.

Not as easy as my approach, just two screws into
the bottom of the roof beams which have the flange
inside the ceiling, per 3.5m length of U section.

The modular approach of yours wouldn't work
anything like as well because the roof beams
are on 4' centers and I'd need two screws for
each 4' module and 3 of those in each row, two
rows. Not clear if its bright enough either, the
ceiling is 8'8". Might need two rows in each row.

Trivially easy to have the U channel say 15mm wide
and have two rows of the flexible led strips glued into
each channel if that is needed to be bright enough.

Wouldn't need the modular approach or
anything like the same total cost either.

I just use one clip per 2 foot strip screwed into the ceiling, don't have to be central, they plug into each other and support each other.

--
When shagging a goat you are best taking it to the edge of a cliff because they push back harder. -- Billy Connelly

In article ,
Lee wrote:
I have a very sophisticated (and expensive) lead acid battery tester.
It uses various parameters to calculate the actual capacity of the
battery on test. And a good one (from a quality source) will read what
it says in the spec.


Yes the "quality source" part, We had one of those testers where I used
to work and the "budget" batteries we tested didn't always agree with
what was printed on them.
The likes of Yaesu and Bosch always did.
Funny that

Could well be. Learned some time ago that a cheap lead acid battery may
cost you more in the long run. My last Bosch managed 11 years.

--
*Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Lee wrote:
On 21/10/2016 15:25, Lee wrote:

The likes of Yaesu

That was a weird auto correct, I was sure I'd typed from Yuasa...

Like many things automotive, I don't think there are that many actual
manufacturers of lead acid batteries anyway.
Lots of badge engineering going on, even with some of the "known" brands.

Yes. ISTR reading most European ones come from the same factory in Spain.
So an opportunity for some enterprising business after we leave the EU.
Perhaps we could call them Lucas. ;-)

--
*Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 13:02:36 GMT, Johnny B Good
wrote:

On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 10:53:51 +0100, damduck-egg wrote:

On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 02:11:43 GMT, Johnny B Good
wrote:




If you're going for the luxury of a backup power system that can do
more
than provide you with a 15 to 30 minute margin by which to properly shut
down your PCs[1] and allow you to ride out an extended mains outage,
you'll need the more expensive inverter type genset. The basic, 'cheap
as chips' Aldi bargain gensets simply don't cut the mustard with today's
domestic electricity loads.

Lidl have sold an Inverter type on occasions , I picked one up a couple
of months ago. At only 1200 watts peak.1000 continous
In all probability, a 3.5KVA rated eco-throttled inverter is likely to
use barely any more fuel,
[1] If it's the PGI 1200 a1 as described he

http://www.bricovideo.ovh/video/prod...l/uk/inverter-
generator-parkside-pgi-1200-lidl-test-advice-price-manual-technical-data-
video.html


It is, I was all set to buy a bigger inverter unit last year and
mentioned it to my brother who promptly gave me a cheap open framed
2kw Chinese job he bought to run site tools now spare because he has
purchased powerful Honda set and has a changeover switch and socket
installed so he can run his house if needed,though when asked if it
was an Inverter type I got a blank look so I have advised him to take
care what he powers till he knows for sure.
I couldn't diplomatically throw it away just yet and TBH with the
wood burner and gravity heating and LED lamps we can drop the
electrical load to a minimum so the bargain Lidl will be there for
sensitive stuff.
I did have an 8kw Petter diesel set but that smoked a bit and was very
noisy,it would be overkill for what we need now ,it wasn't portable
enough for my brother so I got a good price for it rather than move it
here.

G.Harman

"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 02:58:19 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 01:33:44 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 23:10:49 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Bod wrote
Another Dave wrote
Another Dave wrote

I'm the OP.

I'm working on the assumption the landline broadband will be up
even
if
my house is down. I thought it was a requirement that the
landline
had
a battery backup for emergency use by a landline-powered phone,
although admittedly the broadband may not have. Time will tell.

If I can't see a fuse in the battery circuit I'll put one in and
consider my options if it blows.

Ok, but...:

It hasn't worked that way with all of the routers that I've had.
When the power supply went off the router went off with it.

Trivially fixed by having the router on the same UPS etc
that the desktop etc is power from when the mains is down.

I do that to avoid 2 second brownouts that crash the PC (or the
router).

I was going to, but then they stopped happening after the rebuilt
the local distribution switchyard which the 330KV line feeds.

Also because my voltage varies from 245V to 265V, and they refuse to
fix
it.

I haven't bothered to measure mine and
wouldn't want to run a UPS full time for that.

I only checked because the UPS warning light kept coming on, telling
me
it
was dropping the voltage.

The UPS keeps the voltage more sensible.

Yep.

I wired the house lights to it too

Massive amount of work to do that here.

Not really. You just take an output from the UPS and lead it to the
fusebox.

That alone is a non trivial exercise and I havent got all the lights on
the once circuit anyway, and quite a few of them are 150W PA38s too.

It's a very trivial exercise,

Not when you want a decent result it isnt.

Mine works fine.

Its an abortion and illegal to boot.

A 5A flex

Nothing like good enough for when all those PAR38s are on at once.

If you used LEDs, not a problem, otherwise simply use a thicker flex.

An even bigger abortion and even more illegal.

with a plug on one end goes into the multiway power strip the computer's
plugged into. The other end feeds to a connector block I stuck inside
the
fusebox, connecting straight to the lighting circuits (two of them),
instead of them running off the fuses.

Non trivial to get into the meter box the way its done here.

You built your own house, what did you do wrong?

I didn't do anything wrong. All the wiring goes down the holes
in the concrete blocks.

and the LEDs last much longer now.

I'm mostly still using long tube fluoros.

Most of mine wore out.

None of mine have, and they are all
45 years old now, still in perfect condition.

Not the tubes themselves surely?

Sure, but they last 20+ years and cost peanuts to replace.
MUCH less than leds do.

Haven't bought those old inefficient flickery things for years.

They are in fact more efficient than anything
but leds and arent flickery at all

They are to my eyes.

Your problem, I don't have that problem.

I find most car LEDs flickery too.

Ditto.

Odd you find one flickery and not the other,

I don't find any flickery. That's what I meant by the ditto.

what about CRT monitors with low Hz?

Not flickery either.

and MUCH cheaper per decade than leds too.

LEDs are cheaper per decade

Nope.

due to halving the power consumption.

The lights arent on enough to pay for themselves that way.

If they aren't on much, the LEDs will also last longer.

LEDs don't die due to time on, its only the other technologys that do that.

I am planning to have a very long strip
of leds for the main kitchen benches but
haven't gotten around to doing that yet.

I use these, they connect together:
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272393435045

Yeah, saved that the first time you mentioned them.
Not keen on your previous comment about them dying tho.

No, those don't die.

OK, but they don't ship here for a sensible price and I'm not keen
on the aesthetics either. Silly making them look like long tube
fluoros, they should be simple say 10mm square cross section.

I'd get that result with the flexible strips of leds glued
into a 10mm U channel of aluminium or stainless steel.

Could do, but these are quicker for me to put up.

They wouldn't be because you need at least two screws per segment.

The ones I've had die are the GU10 spots with the LEDs too close
together
and they run too hot.

And it would be more convenient to get a very long length
of aluminium U section about 10mm across about 3.5m
long and have those led flexible strips in those, glued in.
But I'm not keen on the life people currently get with
those or the price of the ones with only 5 year warrantys.

The ones I linked to are so easy to put up.

Not as easy as my approach, just two screws into
the bottom of the roof beams which have the flange
inside the ceiling, per 3.5m length of U section.

The modular approach of yours wouldn't work
anything like as well because the roof beams
are on 4' centers and I'd need two screws for
each 4' module and 3 of those in each row, two
rows. Not clear if its bright enough either, the
ceiling is 8'8". Might need two rows in each row.

Trivially easy to have the U channel say 15mm wide
and have two rows of the flexible led strips glued into
each channel if that is needed to be bright enough.

Wouldn't need the modular approach or
anything like the same total cost either.

I just use one clip per 2 foot strip screwed into the ceiling,

Makes no sense to have 2 foot strips in my situation where I need
the strips to be 20' long in the kitchen and 40' long in the main room.

And my ceiling is drop in 4' wide polyfoam paper faced panels.
Cant screw into those every 2'. Makes a lot more sense to have
just 2 screws to hold the 20' of channel onto the bottom of the
I beams that the 4' paper faced poly foam panels drop into.

don't have to be central, they plug into each other and support each
other.

20' and 40' channel works better.

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
James Wilkinson Sword wrote

I use these, they
connect together:
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272393435045

JWS, a couple of questions if I may?

The ebay listing quotes 6 power ranges but only 4 lengths.
I presume these are 5 watts per foot? and they are not currently
offering 5 and 6' ones.

How many leds per foot do they use please.
Thanks in advance

Bob

On Saturday, 22 October 2016 11:38:17 UTC+1, Bob Minchin wrote:
James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
James Wilkinson Sword wrote

I use these, they
connect together:
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272393435045

JWS, a couple of questions if I may?

The ebay listing quotes 6 power ranges but only 4 lengths.
I presume these are 5 watts per foot? and they are not currently
offering 5 and 6' ones.

How many leds per foot do they use please.
Thanks in advance

Bob

Banggood does them at a fraction of the price.


NT

wrote:
On Saturday, 22 October 2016 11:38:17 UTC+1, Bob Minchin wrote:
James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
James Wilkinson Sword wrote

I use these, they
connect together:
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272393435045

JWS, a couple of questions if I may?

The ebay listing quotes 6 power ranges but only 4 lengths.
I presume these are 5 watts per foot? and they are not currently
offering 5 and 6' ones.

How many leds per foot do they use please.
Thanks in advance

Bob

Banggood does them at a fraction of the price.


NT

I've not been able to see 4/5/6' units which is leading me to consider
self adhesive strips in Ali channel.
But very variable info

2835 leds seem to be available with 60/120/180 leds per metre at non
linear wattages per metre according to where you look

5050 Leds have higher output per led but only seem to be 60 leds/m and
quoted at 6w/metre

5630 leds seem to come 120 leds per metre and 24w/m.

Where light output Vs power is quoted, 50 lumens per Watt seems common
across the LED size range.

Highest light output per metre seems to 180 led/metre of the smallest
die (2835 in two rows) 36watts per metre and 1800 lumens per metre.

Virtually all from the far east where is is difficult to get straight
answers pre purchase and no chance of ecconomic returns if not happy.

On Sat, 22 Oct 2016 11:58:52 +0100, wrote:

On Saturday, 22 October 2016 11:38:17 UTC+1, Bob Minchin wrote:
James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
James Wilkinson Sword wrote

I use these, they
connect together:
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272393435045

JWS, a couple of questions if I may?

The ebay listing quotes 6 power ranges but only 4 lengths.
I presume these are 5 watts per foot? and they are not currently
offering 5 and 6' ones.

How many leds per foot do they use please.
Thanks in advance

Bob

Banggood does them at a fraction of the price.

I linked to show the model, it wasn't necessarily where I got them from. I think I've used banggood before (despite the offputting name).

--
"You, you, and you ... panic. The rest of you, come with me." - U.S. Marine Corp Gunnery Sgt.

On Sat, 22 Oct 2016 11:38:17 +0100, Bob Minchin wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
James Wilkinson Sword wrote

I use these, they
connect together:
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272393435045

JWS, a couple of questions if I may?

The ebay listing quotes 6 power ranges but only 4 lengths.
I presume these are 5 watts per foot? and they are not currently
offering 5 and 6' ones.

How many leds per foot do they use please.
Thanks in advance

I use mainly the 2 foot ones and they are 9 watts.

I can see 24 LEDs in one of my 1 foot ones, the 2 foot ones have covers on.

I've never seen longer ones, but I just join them up.

--
The average HB pencil can draw a line 4 miles long.