On 17/10/2016 01:46, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sun, 16 Oct 2016 23:02:42 +0100, Old Codger
wrote:

On 16/10/2016 22:46, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sun, 16 Oct 2016 22:28:59 +0100, Old Codger
wrote:

On 13/10/2016 23:19, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2016 22:20:40 +0100, Old Codger

wrote:

On 13/10/2016 16:53, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2016 16:49:43 +0100, Chris Hogg
wrote:

On Thu, 13 Oct 2016 16:38:58 +0100, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

People reversing out look where they're going and wait till it's
clear. People who reverse in are in the way of all the other
traffic.

"When using a driveway, reverse in and drive out if you can".
Highway Code, 201, http://tinyurl.com/jr7ndbn

You deleted what I said about the bloody highway code. The HC is
NOT law, it's advice, and quite often wrong.

The Highway Code applies to England, Scotland and Wales. The Highway
Code is essential reading for everyone.

The most vulnerable road users are pedestrians, particularly
children,
older or disabled people, cyclists, motorcyclists and horse
riders. It
is important that all road users are aware of the Code and are
considerate towards each other. This applies to pedestrians as
much as
to drivers and riders.

Wording of the Highway Code:

Many of the rules in the Code are legal requirements, and if you
disobey
these rules you are committing a criminal offence. You may be fined,
given penalty points on your licence or be disqualified from
driving. In
the most serious cases you may be sent to prison. Such rules are
identified by the use of the words €˜MUST/MUST NOT. In addition, the
rule includes an abbreviated reference to the legislation which
creates
the offence. See an explanation of the abbreviations.

Although failure to comply with the other rules of the Code will
not, in
itself, cause a person to be prosecuted, The Highway Code may be
used in
evidence in any court proceedings under the Traffic Acts (see The
road
user and the law) to establish liability. This includes rules
which use
advisory wording such as €˜should/should not or €˜do/do not.

As stated above, many of the rules are legal requirements and if you
disobey those you are committing a criminal offence. Although
failure
to comply with the other rules of the Code will not, in itself,
cause a
person to be prosecuted, The Highway Code may be used in evidence in
any
court proceedings under the Traffic Acts to establish liability. I
suggest therefore that if you can safely reverse into your driveway
that
is the correct action to take. Reversing out, should it be deemed to
haver caused an accident, might result in prosecution.

The reversing one is not a "must". It is therefore not a law.

Agreed, however "Although failure to comply with the other rules of the
Code will not, in itself, cause a person to be prosecuted, The Highway
Code may be used in evidence in any court proceedings under the Traffic
Acts to establish liability." Therefore, as I state above, reversing
out, should it be deemed to have caused an accident, might result in
prosecution. Doesn't have to be the law for that to happen.

So the ****t I put in the OP who could have reversed into me would have
been ok, because he was following the HC? Bull****! Running someone
down in either direction would result in the same punishment.

I did not suggest that.

You most certainly did, you claimed the HC would be used against me.

Reversing in however is much less likely to result in an accident

Bull****. Reversing in is getting in the way of everybody, because
you're waiting in the busy road instead of your driveway. I just go
straight in without holding anyone up. When exiting, I wait until it's
clear, on my own land, without being in the way. I pride myself on
being a courteous driver.

because the driver has a much better all round view and other vehicle
drivers are not going to be surprised by a vehicle suddenly appearing
from between hedges/fences.

I have just as good a view when reversing. Please learn to drive before
you kill somebody.

You are either an idiot or a troll. I will, possibly unjustifiably,
give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are trolling just for
the fun of watching others correct you.

Now just FOHP.



--
Old Codger
e-mail use reply to field

What matters in politics is not what happens, but what you can make
people believe has happened. [Janet Daley 27/8/2003]

On Tue, 18 Oct 2016 22:10:57 +0100, Old Codger wrote:

On 17/10/2016 01:46, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sun, 16 Oct 2016 23:02:42 +0100, Old Codger
wrote:

On 16/10/2016 22:46, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sun, 16 Oct 2016 22:28:59 +0100, Old Codger
wrote:

On 13/10/2016 23:19, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2016 22:20:40 +0100, Old Codger

wrote:

On 13/10/2016 16:53, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2016 16:49:43 +0100, Chris Hogg
wrote:

On Thu, 13 Oct 2016 16:38:58 +0100, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

People reversing out look where they're going and wait till it's
clear. People who reverse in are in the way of all the other
traffic.

"When using a driveway, reverse in and drive out if you can".
Highway Code, 201, http://tinyurl.com/jr7ndbn

You deleted what I said about the bloody highway code. The HC is
NOT law, it's advice, and quite often wrong.

The Highway Code applies to England, Scotland and Wales. The Highway
Code is essential reading for everyone.

The most vulnerable road users are pedestrians, particularly
children,
older or disabled people, cyclists, motorcyclists and horse
riders. It
is important that all road users are aware of the Code and are
considerate towards each other. This applies to pedestrians as
much as
to drivers and riders.

Wording of the Highway Code:

Many of the rules in the Code are legal requirements, and if you
disobey
these rules you are committing a criminal offence. You may be fined,
given penalty points on your licence or be disqualified from
driving. In
the most serious cases you may be sent to prison. Such rules are
identified by the use of the words €˜MUST/MUST NOT.. In addition, the
rule includes an abbreviated reference to the legislation which
creates
the offence. See an explanation of the abbreviations.

Although failure to comply with the other rules of the Code will
not, in
itself, cause a person to be prosecuted, The Highway Code may be
used in
evidence in any court proceedings under the Traffic Acts (see The
road
user and the law) to establish liability. This includes rules
which use
advisory wording such as €˜should/should not or €˜do/do not.

As stated above, many of the rules are legal requirements and if you
disobey those you are committing a criminal offence. Although
failure
to comply with the other rules of the Code will not, in itself,
cause a
person to be prosecuted, The Highway Code may be used in evidence in
any
court proceedings under the Traffic Acts to establish liability. I
suggest therefore that if you can safely reverse into your driveway
that
is the correct action to take. Reversing out, should it be deemed to
haver caused an accident, might result in prosecution.

The reversing one is not a "must". It is therefore not a law.

Agreed, however "Although failure to comply with the other rules of the
Code will not, in itself, cause a person to be prosecuted, The Highway
Code may be used in evidence in any court proceedings under the Traffic
Acts to establish liability." Therefore, as I state above, reversing
out, should it be deemed to have caused an accident, might result in
prosecution. Doesn't have to be the law for that to happen.

So the ****t I put in the OP who could have reversed into me would have
been ok, because he was following the HC? Bull****! Running someone
down in either direction would result in the same punishment.

I did not suggest that.

You most certainly did, you claimed the HC would be used against me.

Reversing in however is much less likely to result in an accident

Bull****. Reversing in is getting in the way of everybody, because
you're waiting in the busy road instead of your driveway. I just go
straight in without holding anyone up. When exiting, I wait until it's
clear, on my own land, without being in the way. I pride myself on
being a courteous driver.

because the driver has a much better all round view and other vehicle
drivers are not going to be surprised by a vehicle suddenly appearing
from between hedges/fences.

I have just as good a view when reversing. Please learn to drive before
you kill somebody.

You are either an idiot or a troll. I will, possibly unjustifiably,
give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are trolling just for
the fun of watching others correct you.

Now just FOHP.

I showed you all a picture of my car model, now do some ****ing measurements and grow a brain.

--
Setting a good example for your children takes all the fun out of middle age.

"Old Codger" wrote in message
...
because the driver has a much better all round view and other vehicle
drivers are not going to be surprised by a vehicle suddenly appearing
from between hedges/fences.

I have just as good a view when reversing. Please learn to drive before
you kill somebody.

I doubt it very much: I think you are bull****ting.

You have a *better* view if you are looking forwards as you emerge into the
road. The field of vision is about 170 degrees (of which the central 120
degrees is 3D - with both eyes). If you are looking forwards at the road,
you can see objects coming from left and right - and as soon as any hazard
catches your attention you can turn your eyes/head to see it more clearly.

If you are reversing out, you have a much smaller angle of vision because
roof, the C pillars and the tailgate below the rear window get in the way.
You have to rely on mirrors to give you small "pools" of extra vision: a
small angle for each of the door mirrors and whatever the angle of the
central mirror is. Or you turn your head over your shoulder and again have a
limited vision because parts of the car get in the way.

Also, if there is a wall or hedge between your house and the road, then it
will obscure your vision, and if you are further away from the road (because
the car's front end is further from the road) then you will have less chance
of seeing hazards until your car has emerged far enough that you have gone
past the wall (ie until your head is between the wall and the road, with
only the bonnet still beyond it). If you have reversed in, your car does not
have to protrude as far beyond the wall (only the bonnet needs to stick out)
before your head is beyond the wall and you have all round visibility.

Yes, you will cause a temporary blockage in the road while you reverse in,
but you will also cause a temporary blockage as you reverse out: reversing
is a slow and cumbersome manoeuvre, with the car being driven in a way
(effectively rear wheel steering going in the direction of travel) that you
are not used to; also the self-centring of the steering tends to work in the
opposite sense (ie to turn the wheels *away* from centre) when reversing.

Most construction sites, supermarket car parks etc with restricted-width and
restricted-visibility access onto a road enforce a reverse-in-drive-out
rule, and there must be a good reason for this - as described above.


Reversing into a narrow car-parking space is a different issue, and opinion
is more divided. I tend to favour driving forwards into the space because
you have better control over the left-right position of the car when going
forwards: you only have to move the wheel a small amount to correct for any
sideways error in the position of your car with respect to those either
side, whereas if you are reversing in you have to make a very large movement
of the wheel to correct for a small error. When you come to leave, the
difficult part of the manoeuvre (the reversing) is into a wide open space,
even if it is one that has lots of hazards from passing cars and people.
Also, I'm often in more of a hurry when I arrive at a car park than when I
leave, so the quicker manoeuvre (the driving forwards) is better done when
you are more pushed for time. I tend to have phases when I usually park
nose-in, then I change and start routinely parking nose-out. The one time
when I *always* reverse in is if I expect there to be a lot of other cars
leaving at the same time (eg if I've been to the cinema when everyone leaves
as soon as the film finishes) - if I've reversed in, I can drive out much
more quickly than reversing out, and so cause less interruption to other
traffic.


As a matter of interest, how do people in this group tend to reverse?
Looking forwards and using the left/centre/right mirrors to see behind? Or
turning your head and looking over your shoulder? The latter gives you
better central vision but you lose the peripheral vision to show you where
the sides of your car are in relation to a kerb or low wall alongside which
is hidden by the body of the car below the windows and can only be seen via
the door mirrors.

I used to turn my head for most reversing and only use door mirrors when
parking against a kerb, but in the last 10 years or so I've got into the
habit of almost always looking forwards and using mirrors only. Door mirrors
that dip when you go into reverse are very useful; you don't have to make a
manual adjustment before and after each reversing manoeuvre where sideways
position at ground level (ie distance between wheels and kerb) is critical.

"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
"Old Codger" wrote in message
...
because the driver has a much better all round view and other vehicle
drivers are not going to be surprised by a vehicle suddenly appearing
from between hedges/fences.

I have just as good a view when reversing. Please learn to drive before
you kill somebody.

I doubt it very much: I think you are bull****ting.

You have a *better* view if you are looking forwards as you emerge into
the road. The field of vision is about 170 degrees (of which the central
120 degrees is 3D - with both eyes). If you are looking forwards at the
road, you can see objects coming from left and right - and as soon as any
hazard catches your attention you can turn your eyes/head to see it more
clearly.

If you are reversing out, you have a much smaller angle of vision because
roof, the C pillars and the tailgate below the rear window get in the way.
You have to rely on mirrors to give you small "pools" of extra vision: a
small angle for each of the door mirrors and whatever the angle of the
central mirror is. Or you turn your head over your shoulder and again have
a limited vision because parts of the car get in the way.

Also, if there is a wall or hedge between your house and the road, then it
will obscure your vision, and if you are further away from the road
(because the car's front end is further from the road) then you will have
less chance of seeing hazards until your car has emerged far enough that
you have gone past the wall (ie until your head is between the wall and
the road, with only the bonnet still beyond it). If you have reversed in,
your car does not have to protrude as far beyond the wall (only the bonnet
needs to stick out) before your head is beyond the wall and you have all
round visibility.

Yes, you will cause a temporary blockage in the road while you reverse in,
but you will also cause a temporary blockage as you reverse out: reversing
is a slow and cumbersome manoeuvre, with the car being driven in a way
(effectively rear wheel steering going in the direction of travel) that
you are not used to; also the self-centring of the steering tends to work
in the opposite sense (ie to turn the wheels *away* from centre) when
reversing.

Most construction sites, supermarket car parks etc with restricted-width
and restricted-visibility access onto a road enforce a
reverse-in-drive-out rule, and there must be a good reason for this - as
described above.


Reversing into a narrow car-parking space is a different issue, and
opinion is more divided. I tend to favour driving forwards into the space
because you have better control over the left-right position of the car
when going forwards: you only have to move the wheel a small amount to
correct for any sideways error in the position of your car with respect to
those either side, whereas if you are reversing in you have to make a very
large movement of the wheel to correct for a small error. When you come to
leave, the difficult part of the manoeuvre (the reversing) is into a wide
open space, even if it is one that has lots of hazards from passing cars
and people. Also, I'm often in more of a hurry when I arrive at a car park
than when I leave, so the quicker manoeuvre (the driving forwards) is
better done when you are more pushed for time. I tend to have phases when
I usually park nose-in, then I change and start routinely parking
nose-out. The one time when I *always* reverse in is if I expect there to
be a lot of other cars leaving at the same time (eg if I've been to the
cinema when everyone leaves as soon as the film finishes) - if I've
reversed in, I can drive out much more quickly than reversing out, and so
cause less interruption to other traffic.

I agree with all of the above of yours.

As a matter of interest, how do people in this group tend to reverse?
Looking forwards and using the left/centre/right mirrors to see behind? Or
turning your head and looking over your shoulder?

Mostly turning my head and looking over my shoulder but in some
of the tighter places like when backing in to the quite tight space
between a couple of trees when backing in to pick up the trailer,
I do use the wing mirrors to check that I'm not too close to the
trees once the back of the car is close to those trees. I also use
the wing mirrors when driving out with the trailer to check that
that the trailer isnt going to scrape the trees.

When returning the trailer after it has been used, I look
back thru the back window when checking that the trailer
is going back between the trees and that it isnt going to
run into the wall of the house when fully in.

The latter gives you better central vision but you lose the peripheral
vision to show you where the sides of your car are in relation to a kerb
or low wall alongside which is hidden by the body of the car below the
windows and can only be seen via the door mirrors.

That's why I do both in the tightest situations.

I park the car right up close to the house with the back of the car
quite close to the main patio door that is the front door and that
is again between a couple of trees getting into that location.

I back out of there into the park beside the house and dont even
bother to do more than check that there isnt anyone in the park
that I might be about to back into and I do that in the rear vision
mirror. I back out with pure muscle memory with the steering on
full lock and straighten up as the tree on the passengers side of
the car passes the door mirror without bothering to visually check
because cause I know I wont hit anything doing it like that.

I used to turn my head for most reversing and only use door mirrors when
parking against a kerb, but in the last 10 years or so I've got into the
habit of almost always looking forwards and using mirrors only.

I dont do it like that myself.

Door mirrors that dip when you go into reverse are very useful;

Yeah, thats one of the things I would like to have.

Can't justify replacing the now 10 year old car bought new to get
that tho. Doesnt have cruise control or reversing cameras either.

Can be a pain when backing up with the trailer when the ground
drops away and the trailer isnt visible out the back window,
particularly when backing and turning at the same time.

you don't have to make a manual adjustment before and after each reversing
manoeuvre where sideways position at ground level (ie distance between
wheels and kerb) is critical.

I dont need to back into parallel parking much at all.