I have a number of doors in my early Victoria house
with large door locks of a simple kind (about 6"x4.5")
attached to the outside of the door,
with a flange on the side of the door.
I'm wondering about the feasibility of getting keys for the locks.
I asked at the best local locksmith, and he said
it would cost over £100 per door.
I'm wondering if anyone can suggest a cheaper way
of going about it.


--
Timothy Murphy
gayleard /at/ eircom.net
School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin

Timothy Murphy wrote:
I have a number of doors in my early Victoria house
with large door locks of a simple kind (about 6"x4.5")
attached to the outside of the door,
with a flange on the side of the door.
I'm wondering about the feasibility of getting keys for the locks.
I asked at the best local locksmith, and he said
it would cost over £100 per door.
I'm wondering if anyone can suggest a cheaper way
of going about it.


DIY of course. It aint rocket science. Just need some needle files.

On 13/09/2016 20:42, Bob Minchin wrote:
Timothy Murphy wrote:
I have a number of doors in my early Victoria house
with large door locks of a simple kind (about 6"x4.5")
attached to the outside of the door,
with a flange on the side of the door.
I'm wondering about the feasibility of getting keys for the locks.
I asked at the best local locksmith, and he said
it would cost over £100 per door.
I'm wondering if anyone can suggest a cheaper way
of going about it.


DIY of course. It aint rocket science. Just need some needle files.

I agree get some key blanks and file.

On 13/09/2016 18:20, Timothy Murphy wrote:
I have a number of doors in my early Victoria house
with large door locks of a simple kind (about 6"x4.5")
attached to the outside of the door,
with a flange on the side of the door.
I'm wondering about the feasibility of getting keys for the locks.

It is doable but time consuming. Have you ever taken one apart?

Photograph it at all stages of dismantling and beware of springs.

One trick is to reassemble the components to accept an existing key and
then make new internal lock gate components for that key for the others.
This is generally easier than making a lot of different keys.

I asked at the best local locksmith, and he said
it would cost over £100 per door.
I'm wondering if anyone can suggest a cheaper way
of going about it.

DIY will be cheaper but take a long time and quite demanding.

I have done it once or twice for old Victorian door locks.

Regards,
Martin Brown

ss wrote:

I have a number of doors in my early Victoria house
with large door locks of a simple kind (about 6"x4.5")
attached to the outside of the door,
with a flange on the side of the door.
I'm wondering about the feasibility of getting keys for the locks.

DIY of course. It aint rocket science. Just need some needle files.

I agree get some key blanks and file.

And then ...
Any pointers or links to online advice on this?

--
Timothy Murphy
gayleard /at/ eircom.net
School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin

On 14-Sep-16 10:03 AM, Timothy Murphy wrote:
ss wrote:

I have a number of doors in my early Victoria house
with large door locks of a simple kind (about 6"x4.5")
attached to the outside of the door,
with a flange on the side of the door.
I'm wondering about the feasibility of getting keys for the locks.

DIY of course. It aint rocket science. Just need some needle files.

I agree get some key blanks and file.

And then ...
Any pointers or links to online advice on this?


Most of these locks have very simple keys. The differentiation was by
means of warding. You can make one skeleton key (no metal near the
warding) that will operate all of them. Then just take that to a key
shop for duplicating.

Again if you have one key that operates one of the locks, you can easily
adjust that to open all of them. Make a copy first, and fiddle around
with the copy, ofc.

I'm talking about a rim lock, like this one.
http://www.screwfix.com/p/smith-lock...-x-105mm/1591G

The £100 in the OP sounds far too high. Try shopping around. I had a
similar job done by Banhams for around £25 IIRC. The work was done by
the trainee, who revelled in it.

On Tuesday, 13 September 2016 18:20:29 UTC+1, Timothy Murphy wrote:
I have a number of doors in my early Victoria house
with large door locks of a simple kind (about 6"x4.5")
attached to the outside of the door,
with a flange on the side of the door.
I'm wondering about the feasibility of getting keys for the locks.
I asked at the best local locksmith, and he said
it would cost over £100 per door.
I'm wondering if anyone can suggest a cheaper way
of going about it.

Just go to a sensible locksmith. It's not worth spending an hour plus for a fiver - or maybe tenner now.


NT

On 14/09/2016 12:59, wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 September 2016 18:20:29 UTC+1, Timothy Murphy wrote:
I have a number of doors in my early Victoria house
with large door locks of a simple kind (about 6"x4.5")
attached to the outside of the door,
with a flange on the side of the door.
I'm wondering about the feasibility of getting keys for the locks.
I asked at the best local locksmith, and he said
it would cost over £100 per door.
I'm wondering if anyone can suggest a cheaper way
of going about it.

Just go to a sensible locksmith. It's not worth spending an hour plus for a fiver - or maybe tenner now.


NT



fiver or a tenner ....... most people won't look at anything at less
than £25 an Hour
Do you honestly think a Locksmith is going to work for minimum wage ?

On Wednesday, 14 September 2016 18:49:26 UTC+1, rick wrote:
On 14/09/2016 12:59, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 September 2016 18:20:29 UTC+1, Timothy Murphy wrote:

I have a number of doors in my early Victoria house
with large door locks of a simple kind (about 6"x4.5")
attached to the outside of the door,
with a flange on the side of the door.
I'm wondering about the feasibility of getting keys for the locks.
I asked at the best local locksmith, and he said
it would cost over £100 per door.
I'm wondering if anyone can suggest a cheaper way
of going about it.

Just go to a sensible locksmith. It's not worth spending an hour plus for a fiver - or maybe tenner now.

fiver or a tenner ....... most people won't look at anything at less
than £25 an Hour
Do you honestly think a Locksmith is going to work for minimum wage ?

My keys to fit Victorian locks cost me a fiver each in the 90s, so probably around a tenner now. Several of those per hour is hardly minimum wage.


NT

In article ,
wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 September 2016 18:49:26 UTC+1, rick wrote:
On 14/09/2016 12:59, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 September 2016 18:20:29 UTC+1, Timothy Murphy wrote:

I have a number of doors in my early Victoria house with large door
locks of a simple kind (about 6"x4.5") attached to the outside of
the door, with a flange on the side of the door. I'm wondering about
the feasibility of getting keys for the locks. I asked at the best
local locksmith, and he said it would cost over £100 per door. I'm
wondering if anyone can suggest a cheaper way of going about it.

Just go to a sensible locksmith. It's not worth spending an hour plus
for a fiver - or maybe tenner now.

fiver or a tenner ....... most people won't look at anything at less
than £25 an Hour Do you honestly think a Locksmith is going to work for
minimum wage ?

My keys to fit Victorian locks cost me a fiver each in the 90s, so
probably around a tenner now. Several of those per hour is hardly minimum
wage.


The key blank doesn't come free - nor do the payments on the key cutting
machine

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On Thursday, 15 September 2016 05:16:44 UTC+1, charles wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 September 2016 18:49:26 UTC+1, rick wrote:
On 14/09/2016 12:59, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 September 2016 18:20:29 UTC+1, Timothy Murphy wrote:

I have a number of doors in my early Victoria house with large door
locks of a simple kind (about 6"x4.5") attached to the outside of
the door, with a flange on the side of the door. I'm wondering about
the feasibility of getting keys for the locks. I asked at the best
local locksmith, and he said it would cost over £100 per door.. I'm
wondering if anyone can suggest a cheaper way of going about it.

Just go to a sensible locksmith. It's not worth spending an hour plus
for a fiver - or maybe tenner now.

fiver or a tenner ....... most people won't look at anything at less
than £25 an Hour Do you honestly think a Locksmith is going to work for
minimum wage ?

My keys to fit Victorian locks cost me a fiver each in the 90s, so
probably around a tenner now. Several of those per hour is hardly minimum
wage.


The key blank doesn't come free - nor do the payments on the key cutting
machine

No, but they are minimal. You could give us a complete financial breakdown of a locksmith's business if you like, but I see you couldn't.


NT

In article ,
wrote:
On Thursday, 15 September 2016 05:16:44 UTC+1, charles wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 September 2016 18:49:26 UTC+1, rick wrote:
On 14/09/2016 12:59, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 September 2016 18:20:29 UTC+1, Timothy Murphy
wrote:

I have a number of doors in my early Victoria house with large
door locks of a simple kind (about 6"x4.5") attached to the
outside of the door, with a flange on the side of the door. I'm
wondering about the feasibility of getting keys for the locks. I
asked at the best local locksmith, and he said it would cost
over £100 per door. I'm wondering if anyone can suggest a
cheaper way of going about it.

Just go to a sensible locksmith. It's not worth spending an hour
plus for a fiver - or maybe tenner now.

fiver or a tenner ....... most people won't look at anything at
less than £25 an Hour Do you honestly think a Locksmith is going to
work for minimum wage ?

My keys to fit Victorian locks cost me a fiver each in the 90s, so
probably around a tenner now. Several of those per hour is hardly
minimum wage.


The key blank doesn't come free - nor do the payments on the key
cutting machine

No, but they are minimal. You could give us a complete financial
breakdown of a locksmith's business if you like, but I see you couldn't.

business rates, rent of premises for a start; then insurance, franchise
commission (if it's Timpson), etc.

But nothing changes the fact the what you pay to have a key cut does not
all turn into the wages of the man who cut your key.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 15/09/2016 09:27, charles wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
On Thursday, 15 September 2016 05:16:44 UTC+1, charles wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 September 2016 18:49:26 UTC+1, rick wrote:
On 14/09/2016 12:59, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 September 2016 18:20:29 UTC+1, Timothy Murphy
wrote:

I have a number of doors in my early Victoria house with large
door locks of a simple kind (about 6"x4.5") attached to the
outside of the door, with a flange on the side of the door. I'm
wondering about the feasibility of getting keys for the locks. I
asked at the best local locksmith, and he said it would cost
over £100 per door. I'm wondering if anyone can suggest a
cheaper way of going about it.

Just go to a sensible locksmith. It's not worth spending an hour
plus for a fiver - or maybe tenner now.

fiver or a tenner ....... most people won't look at anything at
less than £25 an Hour Do you honestly think a Locksmith is going to
work for minimum wage ?

My keys to fit Victorian locks cost me a fiver each in the 90s, so
probably around a tenner now. Several of those per hour is hardly
minimum wage.


The key blank doesn't come free - nor do the payments on the key
cutting machine

No, but they are minimal. You could give us a complete financial
breakdown of a locksmith's business if you like, but I see you couldn't.

business rates, rent of premises for a start; then insurance, franchise
commission (if it's Timpson), etc.

Most high street setups are only able to copy existing keys (and not
always entirely reliably if it is a tricky one). You need a proper
locksmith to take a given lock and match a key to it or vice versa.

The latter is a more common requirement to have a set of matched house
locks that all work off a single key. Avoids jailer keyring syndrome.

But nothing changes the fact the what you pay to have a key cut does not
all turn into the wages of the man who cut your key.

The local guy on the market stall with his ancient machine in the back
of a van might be close to that but ours has retired last year.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 14-Sep-16 12:08 PM, GB wrote:
....
The £100 in the OP sounds far too high. Try shopping around. I had a
similar job done by Banhams for around £25 IIRC. The work was done by
the trainee, who revelled in it.

£100 probably means I don't really want that job, but if you're daft
enough to pay that much I'll do it.

--
--

Colin Bignell

On Thursday, 15 September 2016 09:28:41 UTC+1, charles wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 15 September 2016 05:16:44 UTC+1, charles wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 September 2016 18:49:26 UTC+1, rick wrote:
On 14/09/2016 12:59, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 September 2016 18:20:29 UTC+1, Timothy Murphy
wrote:

I have a number of doors in my early Victoria house with large
door locks of a simple kind (about 6"x4.5") attached to the
outside of the door, with a flange on the side of the door. I'm
wondering about the feasibility of getting keys for the locks. I
asked at the best local locksmith, and he said it would cost
over £100 per door. I'm wondering if anyone can suggest a
cheaper way of going about it.

Just go to a sensible locksmith. It's not worth spending an hour
plus for a fiver - or maybe tenner now.

fiver or a tenner ....... most people won't look at anything at
less than £25 an Hour Do you honestly think a Locksmith is going to
work for minimum wage ?

My keys to fit Victorian locks cost me a fiver each in the 90s, so
probably around a tenner now. Several of those per hour is hardly
minimum wage.


The key blank doesn't come free - nor do the payments on the key
cutting machine

No, but they are minimal. You could give us a complete financial
breakdown of a locksmith's business if you like, but I see you couldn't..

business rates, rent of premises for a start; then insurance, franchise
commission (if it's Timpson), etc.

But nothing changes the fact the what you pay to have a key cut does not
all turn into the wages of the man who cut your key.

Congatulations on stating the obvious. Very useful. You left out some of the costs of course.


NT

wrote:

I have a number of doors in my early Victoria house with large
door locks of a simple kind (about 6"x4.5") attached to the
outside of the door, with a flange on the side of the door. I'm
wondering about the feasibility of getting keys for the locks.

Congatulations on stating the obvious. Very useful. You left out some of
the costs of course.

As the OP, I wish you would all stop worrying about the cost,
and tell me how to do it

--
Timothy Murphy
gayleard /at/ eircom.net
School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin

On 15/09/2016 17:09, Timothy Murphy wrote:
wrote:

I have a number of doors in my early Victoria house with large
door locks of a simple kind (about 6"x4.5") attached to the
outside of the door, with a flange on the side of the door. I'm
wondering about the feasibility of getting keys for the locks.

Congatulations on stating the obvious. Very useful. You left out some of
the costs of course.

As the OP, I wish you would all stop worrying about the cost,
and tell me how to do it

I'd take the lock off the door, and go to a place and play around with
blanks till I found one which looked like it had a chance of fitting.
Maybe have a poke around inside to find out the dimensions - rim locks
are pretty simple. Then file the blanks to fit.

I hope that if I'm wrong, somebody will now correct me, which will mean
your question does at least get answered :-)

On 15-Sep-16 6:04 PM, Clive George wrote:
On 15/09/2016 17:09, Timothy Murphy wrote:
wrote:

I have a number of doors in my early Victoria house with large
door locks of a simple kind (about 6"x4.5") attached to the
outside of the door, with a flange on the side of the door. I'm
wondering about the feasibility of getting keys for the locks.

Congatulations on stating the obvious. Very useful. You left out some of
the costs of course.

As the OP, I wish you would all stop worrying about the cost,
and tell me how to do it

I'd take the lock off the door, and go to a place and play around with
blanks till I found one which looked like it had a chance of fitting.
Maybe have a poke around inside to find out the dimensions - rim locks
are pretty simple. Then file the blanks to fit.

I hope that if I'm wrong, somebody will now correct me, which will mean
your question does at least get answered :-)


I thought we had told you what to do? Find a cheaper locksmith.

However, this being DIY, I would suggest that, instead of playing around
with blanks, find somewhere selling rim locks and try the different
keys until you find one that works, more or less. Then adjust that.

Timothy Murphy wrote:
wrote:

I have a number of doors in my early Victoria house with large
door locks of a simple kind (about 6"x4.5") attached to the
outside of the door, with a flange on the side of the door. I'm
wondering about the feasibility of getting keys for the locks.

Congatulations on stating the obvious. Very useful. You left out some of
the costs of course.

As the OP, I wish you would all stop worrying about the cost,
and tell me how to do it


This site may give you some insight into how the locks work and maybe help
you work out how to make your own key.

http://www.spabfim.org.uk/data/files...d_phillips.pdf

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

"Timothy Murphy" wrote in message
...
wrote:

I have a number of doors in my early Victoria house with large
door locks of a simple kind (about 6"x4.5") attached to the
outside of the door, with a flange on the side of the door.
I'm
wondering about the feasibility of getting keys for the locks.

Congatulations on stating the obvious. Very useful. You left out some of
the costs of course.

As the OP, I wish you would all stop worrying
about the cost, and tell me how to do it

Too radical by far.

Tim+ wrote:

This site may give you some insight into how the locks work and maybe help
you work out how to make your own key.


http://www.spabfim.org.uk/data/files...d_phillips.pdf

Thanks for that.
I've read the article and found it interesting,
though I doubt if I can work out how to make a key from it.

--
Timothy Murphy
gayleard /at/ eircom.net
School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin

On 15/09/2016 17:09, Timothy Murphy wrote:
wrote:

I have a number of doors in my early Victoria house with large
door locks of a simple kind (about 6"x4.5") attached to the
outside of the door, with a flange on the side of the door. I'm
wondering about the feasibility of getting keys for the locks.

Congatulations on stating the obvious. Very useful. You left out some of
the costs of course.

As the OP, I wish you would all stop worrying about the cost,
and tell me how to do it

Take one off the least important door and carefully dismantle it taking
care not to let any springs fly out. Once you have seen inside it should
be obvious what profile the blank key will need to be and then you just
have the tedium of filing it down. This is easier said than done so you
might want to find a cheaper locksmith.

BTW Matching several locks to a given key should be cheaper.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Thursday, 15 September 2016 18:05:06 UTC+1, Clive George wrote:

I have a number of doors in my early Victoria house with large
door locks of a simple kind (about 6"x4.5") attached to the
outside of the door, with a flange on the side of the door. I'm
wondering about the feasibility of getting keys for the locks.

As the OP, I wish you would all stop worrying about the cost,
and tell me how to do it

we did.

I'd take the lock off the door, and go to a place and play around with
blanks till I found one which looked like it had a chance of fitting.
Maybe have a poke around inside to find out the dimensions - rim locks
are pretty simple. Then file the blanks to fit.

that works, and the accuracy of keys is sloppy for such locks, but IME locksmiths don't sell blanks any cheaper than cut keys. I bet filing a bit of thick sheet brass would work. Or ali. Not good practice to use steel. Plastic might even work.


NT

On 13/09/2016 18:20, Timothy Murphy wrote:

I'm wondering if anyone can suggest a cheaper way
of going about it.

If there are neighbouring houses built at the same time as yours you
could try taking a lock with you to ask neighbours if they still have
their locks and are willing to try a key to see if it fits yours. Such
locks were never high security and didn't have a vast number of variations.




--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Friday, 16 September 2016 09:15:54 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
On 13/09/2016 18:20, Timothy Murphy wrote:

I'm wondering if anyone can suggest a cheaper way
of going about it.

If there are neighbouring houses built at the same time as yours you
could try taking a lock with you to ask neighbours if they still have
their locks and are willing to try a key to see if it fits yours. Such
locks were never high security and didn't have a vast number of variations.

Often they were minimal security, enough to stop casual visitors & servants but a soft target for lockpickers. To make a key look authentic, add assorted cutouts somewhere on the key where they won't do anything but look secure, and decorate the key handle.


NT

Wrote in message:
On Thursday, 15 September 2016 09:28:41 UTC+1, charles wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 15 September 2016 05:16:44 UTC+1, charles wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 September 2016 18:49:26 UTC+1, rick wrote:
On 14/09/2016 12:59, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 September 2016 18:20:29 UTC+1, Timothy Murphy
wrote:

I have a number of doors in my early Victoria house with large
door locks of a simple kind (about 6"x4.5") attached to the
outside of the door, with a flange on the side of the door. I'm
wondering about the feasibility of getting keys for the locks. I
asked at the best local locksmith, and he said it would cost
over £100 per door. I'm wondering if anyone can suggest a
cheaper way of going about it.

Just go to a sensible locksmith. It's not worth spending an hour
plus for a fiver - or maybe tenner now.

fiver or a tenner ....... most people won't look at anything at
less than £25 an Hour Do you honestly think a Locksmith is going to
work for minimum wage ?

My keys to fit Victorian locks cost me a fiver each in the 90s, so
probably around a tenner now. Several of those per hour is hardly
minimum wage.


The key blank doesn't come free - nor do the payments on the key
cutting machine

No, but they are minimal. You could give us a complete financial
breakdown of a locksmith's business if you like, but I see you couldn't.

business rates, rent of premises for a start; then insurance, franchise
commission (if it's Timpson), etc.

But nothing changes the fact the what you pay to have a key cut does not
all turn into the wages of the man who cut your key.

Congatulations on stating the obvious. Very useful. You left out some of the costs of course.


NT


Dig dig dig dig dig

:-)
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Saturday, 17 September 2016 00:11:19 UTC+1, jim wrote:

Dig dig dig dig dig

I see your contribution is as content-free and childlike as always. Bye.

Wrote in message:
On Saturday, 17 September 2016 00:11:19 UTC+1, jim wrote:

Dig dig dig dig dig

I see your contribution is as content-free and childlike as always. Bye.


Digger digger digger digger
:-)
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 14/09/2016 10:03, Timothy Murphy wrote:
ss wrote:

I have a number of doors in my early Victoria house
with large door locks of a simple kind (about 6"x4.5")
attached to the outside of the door,
with a flange on the side of the door.
I'm wondering about the feasibility of getting keys for the locks.

DIY of course. It aint rocket science. Just need some needle files.

Use a Dremmel with a 0.5mm thickness wheel.

Bill

On Sunday, 18 September 2016 02:38:31 UTC+1, Bill Wright wrote:
On 14/09/2016 10:03, Timothy Murphy wrote:
ss wrote:

I have a number of doors in my early Victoria house
with large door locks of a simple kind (about 6"x4.5")
attached to the outside of the door,
with a flange on the side of the door.
I'm wondering about the feasibility of getting keys for the locks.

DIY of course. It aint rocket science. Just need some needle files.

Use a Dremmel with a 0.5mm thickness wheel.

Bill

ISTR rasps are good for soft metals too.


NT

replying to Timothy Murphy, Jason wrote:
They are called rimlocks and there are places you can still get old rimlock
key blanks

--
for full context, visit http://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy/...k-1155693-.htm

On Monday, 26 September 2016 12:44:03 UTC+1, Jason wrote:
Timothy Murphy:

They are called rimlocks and there are places you can still get old rimlock
key blanks

I've not seen those. You might want to get a half decent newsgroup portal or client.


NT

wrote in message
...
On Monday, 26 September 2016 12:44:03 UTC+1, Jason wrote:
Timothy Murphy:

They are called rimlocks and there are places you can still get old
rimlock
key blanks

I've not seen those. You might want to get a half decent newsgroup portal
or client.


NT

I'm guessing it's another one of those idiots replying to 10 year old posts

tim

On 26-Sep-16 7:43 PM, tim... wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Monday, 26 September 2016 12:44:03 UTC+1, Jason wrote:
Timothy Murphy:

They are called rimlocks and there are places you can still get old
rimlock
key blanks

I've not seen those. You might want to get a half decent newsgroup
portal or client.


NT

I'm guessing it's another one of those idiots replying to 10 year old posts

tim

The post he's replying to was on 13 September 2016 at 6.20 PM, actually.