En el artículo , charles
escribió:

EDF is owned by the French Government, it can't be "finished".

"finished" = bailed out by the French taxpayer. Is that better?

Still "finished" in my book. If they were wholly a private company,
they would be classed as insolvent.

They need to borrow billions to build Hinkley C and it's by no means
certain they will be able to obtain the finance. Yes, the French govt
is their guarantor, but look at the state of the French economy...

The whole thing is a colossal cluster****.

--
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(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
(")_(")

On Thursday, 18 August 2016 21:42:45 UTC+1, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artÃ*culo , charles
escribió:

EDF is owned by the French Government, it can't be "finished".

"finished" = bailed out by the French taxpayer. Is that better?

Still "finished" in my book. If they were wholly a private company,
they would be classed as insolvent.

They need to borrow billions to build Hinkley C and it's by no means
certain they will be able to obtain the finance. Yes, the French govt
is their guarantor, but look at the state of the French economy...

The whole thing is a colossal cluster****.

Technically and financially.
I've been sating this for years.
Lots of the brain dead here still can't see it.

En el artículo , Mike Tomlinson
escribió:

It remains to be seen if May will blink. If I were in her leopard-print
shoes, I'd be sweating EdF for better terms while politely telling the
Chinese to **** off.

Now they're trying blackmail:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...decries-china-
phobia-after-britain-cools-on-hinkley-point-nuclear-deal

**** 'em.

--
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(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
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Chris Hogg posted
On Wed, 17 Aug 2016 11:04:33 +0100, Andrew
wrote:

On 16/08/2016 21:53, tony sayer wrote:
In article ,
harry scribeth thus

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...indfarm-climat
e-change-
global-warming-biggest-offshore-planning-where-a7193576.html


Course what the silly green moo forgets that on days like today the
freaking wind output is sod all so on windless days and they still think
that a few offshore wind farms will have sufficient wind blowing to
cover the shortfall.



According to the BBC text news, it will supply power for 2 million
homes. I don't think so, not even in a gale.

Certainly not in a gale - they will shut down.

But Ofgem reckons the average medium sized house uses 3,100kWh per
year http://tinyurl.com/h9kz4w7 , or an average rate of 0.353kW. The
average output from Hornsea 2 will be 0.7GW, allowing for a claimed
39% load factor on 1.8GW, so they can reasonably claim to be able to
supply 2 million homes at the 0.353kW rate (1.98 million homes to be
exact, if one can be exact about these things). On the same basis,
Hornsea 1 will supply a little over 1 million homes. But that's the
trouble with averages like that in this situation. They tell you
nothing about the doldrum days.

Or peak demand. Presumably that 0.353kW average demand per home is
averaged across time as well as homes. So if there are times of day when
everybody has things running full blast the total demand is much higher.
And that peak demand figure is what the grid has to be built to deliver.

--
Les

On 19/08/16 19:26, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Wed, 17 Aug 2016 09:49:29 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 17/08/16 09:12, Chris Hogg wrote:
Is
there a secret government agenda here, to go for lots of wind-power
backed up by OCGT's to cope with the doldrum days, that we mere
mortals know nothing about?

Its not that secret.
Government is prepared to pay for capacity, no matter how cheap.

Interesting thing of course.

The study done on the Irish grid shows that half the potential carbon
savings from wind were lost due to the increase in inefficiency of CCGT
kit run in "whores' drawers" mode.

Replacing that CCGT with half-the-efficiency OCGT means that all those
windmills won't reduce CO2 emissions one iota...chuck in some Diesel
plant and its probable that the net effect of the windmills will be to
increase emissions overall.

I was surprised this evening to hear on our local SW News that a
farmer had recently applied for PP to install 20MW of diesel
generation on his farm in North Cornwall, to supply the grid at times
of peak demand, i.e. short term operating reserve, STOR, and that such
a system had already been installed in Plymouth. While most green
energy schemes are wholly misguided, and these STOR schemes are the
unintended consequences of such schemes, it does strike me that they
are the worst of all possible solutions. Surely even OCGTs would be
more efficient, CO2 per kWh-wise. OK so diesel plants have virtually
instant start-up, but even OCGTs must be almost as fast, a few minutes
at most. Some background info here http://tinyurl.com/hshs395

Of course. All our energy policies are the worst of all possible solutions.

That's greens, thats politics.


--
All political activity makes complete sense once the proposition that
all government is basically a self-legalising protection racket, is
fully understood.