I am just wondering if there might be any gotyas...

Long ago I bought a Makita drill kit with 3x 18v 1.3Ah NiCad battery
packs and its charger. The charger is marked 7.2 to 18v, NiCad or NiMh.
two of the packs now need replacing, but I am thinking to recell them
as a cheaper option.

Is there any reason not to directly replace the 15x 1.3aH NiCad cells
in the packs, with 15x 6Ah NiMh? Do the battery packs in some way
identify themselves to the charger please?

On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 08:45:16 +0100, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

I am just wondering if there might be any gotyas...

Long ago I bought a Makita drill kit with 3x 18v 1.3Ah NiCad battery
packs and its charger. The charger is marked 7.2 to 18v, NiCad or NiMh.
two of the packs now need replacing, but I am thinking to recell them
as a cheaper option.

Is there any reason not to directly replace the 15x 1.3aH NiCad cells
in the packs, with 15x 6Ah NiMh? Do the battery packs in some way
identify themselves to the charger please?


I can't answer the specific Makita question but I believe NiMh cells
need slightly more accurate attention to the Delta-V charge / peak
monitoring than NiCad so will generally also charge fine (or the other
way round in your case, as long as the charger is NiMh ready).

Also (and unlike Lithium) you are generally just looking for that
charge profile so a charger can theoretically deal with a range of
voltages (cells) without having to know any specific numbers.

It is ideal of course to know how many cells and therefore what the
expected battery voltage should be and then you can also manage faulty
cells (although this can also be done to some degree by monitoring
pack temperature).

I have a generic 18V drill I'd like to re-cell with NiMh (more for the
S&G's) so will be interested to see how you get on if you do d-i-y.

Cheers, T i m

Harry Bloomfield a écrit :
I am just wondering if there might be any gotyas...

Long ago I bought a Makita drill kit with 3x 18v 1.3Ah NiCad battery packs
and its charger. The charger is marked 7.2 to 18v, NiCad or NiMh. two of the
packs now need replacing, but I am thinking to recell them as a cheaper
option.

Is there any reason not to directly replace the 15x 1.3aH NiCad cells in the
packs, with 15x 6Ah NiMh? Do the battery packs in some way identify
themselves to the charger please?

A rather confused write up, but this suggests not, that I can just swap
NiMH for NiCad. Replacement cells ordered, thanks.

On 31/07/16 10:40, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Harry Bloomfield a écrit :
I am just wondering if there might be any gotyas...

Long ago I bought a Makita drill kit with 3x 18v 1.3Ah NiCad battery
packs and its charger. The charger is marked 7.2 to 18v, NiCad or
NiMh. two of the packs now need replacing, but I am thinking to recell
them as a cheaper option.

Is there any reason not to directly replace the 15x 1.3aH NiCad cells
in the packs, with 15x 6Ah NiMh? Do the battery packs in some way
identify themselves to the charger please?

A rather confused write up, but this suggests not, that I can just swap
NiMH for NiCad. Replacement cells ordered, thanks.

You cannot swap NiMh for NiCd on the same charger, unless the charger is
'NiMh aware'



--
If I had all the money I've spent on drink...
...I'd spend it on drink.

Sir Henry (at Rawlinson's End)

The Natural Philosopher a écrit :
On 31/07/16 10:40, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Harry Bloomfield a écrit :
I am just wondering if there might be any gotyas...

Long ago I bought a Makita drill kit with 3x 18v 1.3Ah NiCad battery
packs and its charger. The charger is marked 7.2 to 18v, NiCad or
NiMh. two of the packs now need replacing, but I am thinking to recell
them as a cheaper option.

Is there any reason not to directly replace the 15x 1.3aH NiCad cells
in the packs, with 15x 6Ah NiMh? Do the battery packs in some way
identify themselves to the charger please?

A rather confused write up, but this suggests not, that I can just swap
NiMH for NiCad. Replacement cells ordered, thanks.

You cannot swap NiMh for NiCd on the same charger, unless the charger is
'NiMh aware'

The charger itself includes both NiCad and NiMh in its spec..

On 31/07/2016 10:46, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 31/07/16 10:40, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Harry Bloomfield a écrit :
I am just wondering if there might be any gotyas...

Long ago I bought a Makita drill kit with 3x 18v 1.3Ah NiCad battery
packs and its charger. The charger is marked 7.2 to 18v, NiCad or
NiMh. two of the packs now need replacing, but I am thinking to recell
them as a cheaper option.

Is there any reason not to directly replace the 15x 1.3aH NiCad cells
in the packs, with 15x 6Ah NiMh? Do the battery packs in some way
identify themselves to the charger please?

A rather confused write up, but this suggests not, that I can just swap
NiMH for NiCad. Replacement cells ordered, thanks.

You cannot swap NiMh for NiCd on the same charger, unless the charger is
'NiMh aware'



I changed from NiCd to MiMh on my Makita stuff without problems, I'd
guess Makita chargers are smart enough.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman

On 31/07/2016 08:45, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I am just wondering if there might be any gotyas...

Long ago I bought a Makita drill kit with 3x 18v 1.3Ah NiCad battery
packs and its charger. The charger is marked 7.2 to 18v, NiCad or NiMh.
two of the packs now need replacing, but I am thinking to recell them as
a cheaper option.

Its a nice theory, but in the past I have found the cost of buying
decent cells has always worked out more than buying new OEM batteries...

(a bit of shopping around got three 2.8Ah NiMh packs for about £150)

Is there any reason not to directly replace the 15x 1.3aH NiCad cells in
the packs, with 15x 6Ah NiMh? Do the battery packs in some way identify
themselves to the charger please?

The charger will certainly do both. IIRC there are some extra contacts
on some of the packs (probably a temperature sensor) - although the
charger will also work on packs without them.

Is that 6Ah rating genuine? (i.e. not 6 ebay Ah!)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm a écrit :
On 31/07/2016 08:45, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I am just wondering if there might be any gotyas...

Long ago I bought a Makita drill kit with 3x 18v 1.3Ah NiCad battery
packs and its charger. The charger is marked 7.2 to 18v, NiCad or NiMh.
two of the packs now need replacing, but I am thinking to recell them as
a cheaper option.

Its a nice theory, but in the past I have found the cost of buying decent
cells has always worked out more than buying new OEM batteries...

(a bit of shopping around got three 2.8Ah NiMh packs for about £150)

Is there any reason not to directly replace the 15x 1.3aH NiCad cells in
the packs, with 15x 6Ah NiMh? Do the battery packs in some way identify
themselves to the charger please?

The charger will certainly do both. IIRC there are some extra contacts on
some of the packs (probably a temperature sensor) - although the charger will
also work on packs without them.

Is that 6Ah rating genuine? (i.e. not 6 ebay Ah!)

Unlikely to be a genuine 6Ah, more likely 3Ah, but they were cheap
enough to have a go with.

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Harry Bloomfield a écrit :
I am just wondering if there might be any gotyas...

Long ago I bought a Makita drill kit with 3x 18v 1.3Ah NiCad battery
packs and its charger. The charger is marked 7.2 to 18v, NiCad or
NiMh. two of the packs now need replacing, but I am thinking to
recell them as a cheaper option.

Is there any reason not to directly replace the 15x 1.3aH NiCad cells
in the packs, with 15x 6Ah NiMh? Do the battery packs in some way
identify themselves to the charger please?

A rather confused write up, but this suggests not, that I can just swap
NiMH for NiCad. Replacement cells ordered, thanks.

How are you going to fit them? The interconnections are usually welded.
And 'tagged' types you can solder usually poor quality - and expensive.

--
*One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman wrote:

How are you going to fit them? The interconnections are usually welded.
And 'tagged' types you can solder usually poor quality - and expensive.

https://youtu.be/UU7QC5Uby6M?t=20s

On 7/31/2016 2:34 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote:

How are you going to fit them? The interconnections are usually welded.
And 'tagged' types you can solder usually poor quality - and expensive.

https://youtu.be/UU7QC5Uby6M?t=20s

Very neat, but only doing the negative side. Can you do positives
"through" the battery without wrecking it, by grounding to the can?

newshound wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

https://youtu.be/UU7QC5Uby6M?t=20s

Very neat, but only doing the negative side. Can you do positives
"through" the battery without wrecking it, by grounding to the can?

Wouldn't think so, he's looking at a dual spot electrode for the other end

https://youtu.be/YWsu8zen13Y?t=2m11s

On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 13:03:18 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

On 31/07/2016 08:45, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I am just wondering if there might be any gotyas...

Long ago I bought a Makita drill kit with 3x 18v 1.3Ah NiCad battery
packs and its charger. The charger is marked 7.2 to 18v, NiCad or NiMh.
two of the packs now need replacing, but I am thinking to recell them as
a cheaper option.

Its a nice theory, but in the past I have found the cost of buying
decent cells has always worked out more than buying new OEM batteries...

(a bit of shopping around got three 2.8Ah NiMh packs for about £150)

Are this ort of replacement any good? Seem to have good feedback. My 18V
Makita battaeries are shagged and, althogh I have a new 18V Bosch combi,
having 3 or 4 drills is usefull at times:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/18V-3-0AH-...item20cfa44b49
vendor is:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/168battery...p2047675.l2559
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On 01/08/2016 08:46, PeterC wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 13:03:18 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

On 31/07/2016 08:45, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I am just wondering if there might be any gotyas...

Long ago I bought a Makita drill kit with 3x 18v 1.3Ah NiCad battery
packs and its charger. The charger is marked 7.2 to 18v, NiCad or NiMh.
two of the packs now need replacing, but I am thinking to recell them as
a cheaper option.

Its a nice theory, but in the past I have found the cost of buying
decent cells has always worked out more than buying new OEM batteries...

(a bit of shopping around got three 2.8Ah NiMh packs for about £150)

Are this ort of replacement any good? Seem to have good feedback. My 18V
Makita battaeries are shagged and, althogh I have a new 18V Bosch combi,
having 3 or 4 drills is usefull at times:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/18V-3-0AH-...item20cfa44b49
vendor is:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/168battery...p2047675.l2559


Based on my previous experience, I would stump up the extra money for a
real one. I did try an ebay 3Ah battery. Performances was ok when new,
but the life span was very poor. Put it this way, my original drill came
with 3 batteries, one of which started failing after some 8 years. I
bought an ebay replacement, and it needed replacing along with the
remaining 2 of the original set about a year later.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 7/31/2016 5:18 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
newshound wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

https://youtu.be/UU7QC5Uby6M?t=20s

Very neat, but only doing the negative side. Can you do positives
"through" the battery without wrecking it, by grounding to the can?

Wouldn't think so, he's looking at a dual spot electrode for the other end

https://youtu.be/YWsu8zen13Y?t=2m11s

Even neater. I did have a hunt for anything on YouTube, but didn't spot
that. I wonder if copper is the right electrode material, or whether it
would be better to use little bits of tungsten (scrap TIG electrodes?)

Does look like quite a handy gadget to have if you are likely to fix
many batteries.

On 8/1/2016 10:36 AM, John Rumm wrote:
On 01/08/2016 08:46, PeterC wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 13:03:18 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

On 31/07/2016 08:45, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I am just wondering if there might be any gotyas...

Long ago I bought a Makita drill kit with 3x 18v 1.3Ah NiCad battery
packs and its charger. The charger is marked 7.2 to 18v, NiCad or NiMh.
two of the packs now need replacing, but I am thinking to recell
them as
a cheaper option.

Its a nice theory, but in the past I have found the cost of buying
decent cells has always worked out more than buying new OEM batteries...

(a bit of shopping around got three 2.8Ah NiMh packs for about £150)

Are this ort of replacement any good? Seem to have good feedback. My 18V
Makita battaeries are shagged and, althogh I have a new 18V Bosch combi,
having 3 or 4 drills is usefull at times:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/18V-3-0AH-...item20cfa44b49

vendor is:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/168battery...p2047675.l2559


Based on my previous experience, I would stump up the extra money for a
real one. I did try an ebay 3Ah battery. Performances was ok when new,
but the life span was very poor. Put it this way, my original drill came
with 3 batteries, one of which started failing after some 8 years. I
bought an ebay replacement, and it needed replacing along with the
remaining 2 of the original set about a year later.


I've had several "third party" replacement Makita batteries, two had
shorter life than originals (probably 50% though, so still cost
effective), others have been more or less comparable. And I have had
shortish life out of one original.

According to my lads who have researched this more, some Makita hardware
*including batteries* is being advertised as having a free replacement
offer. Sounds unlikely to me especially for batteries, but possibly if
their "multiplier" is right it might be worth doing to keep users locked
into the brand. One of them is about to try it out (six months of very
hard use).

On Mon, 1 Aug 2016 10:36:05 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

On 01/08/2016 08:46, PeterC wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 13:03:18 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

On 31/07/2016 08:45, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I am just wondering if there might be any gotyas...

Long ago I bought a Makita drill kit with 3x 18v 1.3Ah NiCad battery
packs and its charger. The charger is marked 7.2 to 18v, NiCad or NiMh.
two of the packs now need replacing, but I am thinking to recell them as
a cheaper option.

Its a nice theory, but in the past I have found the cost of buying
decent cells has always worked out more than buying new OEM batteries...

(a bit of shopping around got three 2.8Ah NiMh packs for about £150)

Are this ort of replacement any good? Seem to have good feedback. My 18V
Makita battaeries are shagged and, althogh I have a new 18V Bosch combi,
having 3 or 4 drills is usefull at times:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/18V-3-0AH-...item20cfa44b49
vendor is:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/168battery...p2047675.l2559

Based on my previous experience, I would stump up the extra money for a
real one. I did try an ebay 3Ah battery. Performances was ok when new,
but the life span was very poor. Put it this way, my original drill came
with 3 batteries, one of which started failing after some 8 years. I
bought an ebay replacement, and it needed replacing along with the
remaining 2 of the original set about a year later.

Ah, hence the 1-year guarantee! Thanks, I'll not bother with them.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

newshound wrote:
On 8/1/2016 10:36 AM, John Rumm wrote:
On 01/08/2016 08:46, PeterC wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 13:03:18 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

On 31/07/2016 08:45, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I am just wondering if there might be any gotyas...

Long ago I bought a Makita drill kit with 3x 18v 1.3Ah NiCad battery
packs and its charger. The charger is marked 7.2 to 18v, NiCad or
NiMh.
two of the packs now need replacing, but I am thinking to recell
them as
a cheaper option.

Its a nice theory, but in the past I have found the cost of buying
decent cells has always worked out more than buying new OEM
batteries...

(a bit of shopping around got three 2.8Ah NiMh packs for about £150)

Are this ort of replacement any good? Seem to have good feedback. My
18V
Makita battaeries are shagged and, althogh I have a new 18V Bosch
combi,
having 3 or 4 drills is usefull at times:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/18V-3-0AH-...item20cfa44b49


vendor is:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/168battery...p2047675.l2559


Based on my previous experience, I would stump up the extra money for a
real one. I did try an ebay 3Ah battery. Performances was ok when new,
but the life span was very poor. Put it this way, my original drill came
with 3 batteries, one of which started failing after some 8 years. I
bought an ebay replacement, and it needed replacing along with the
remaining 2 of the original set about a year later.


I've had several "third party" replacement Makita batteries, two had
shorter life than originals (probably 50% though, so still cost
effective), others have been more or less comparable. And I have had
shortish life out of one original.

According to my lads who have researched this more, some Makita
hardware *including batteries* is being advertised as having a free
replacement offer. Sounds unlikely to me especially for batteries, but
possibly if their "multiplier" is right it might be worth doing to
keep users locked into the brand. One of them is about to try it out
(six months of very hard use).

My experience of replacing Nicad with Nimh has not been good. I
find the output currents are lower and the periods between recharges
shorter. YMMV. I don't understand why battery makers don't come up with
Li battery packs and chargers to replace Nicad packs. The market must be
big enough and Li control chips are now only a few pence each.

On 01/08/2016 17:37, Capitol wrote:
newshound wrote:
On 8/1/2016 10:36 AM, John Rumm wrote:
On 01/08/2016 08:46, PeterC wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 13:03:18 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

On 31/07/2016 08:45, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I am just wondering if there might be any gotyas...

Long ago I bought a Makita drill kit with 3x 18v 1.3Ah NiCad battery
packs and its charger. The charger is marked 7.2 to 18v, NiCad or
NiMh.
two of the packs now need replacing, but I am thinking to recell
them as
a cheaper option.

Its a nice theory, but in the past I have found the cost of buying
decent cells has always worked out more than buying new OEM
batteries...

(a bit of shopping around got three 2.8Ah NiMh packs for about £150)

Are this ort of replacement any good? Seem to have good feedback. My
18V
Makita battaeries are shagged and, althogh I have a new 18V Bosch
combi,
having 3 or 4 drills is usefull at times:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/18V-3-0AH-...item20cfa44b49


vendor is:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/168battery...p2047675.l2559


Based on my previous experience, I would stump up the extra money for a
real one. I did try an ebay 3Ah battery. Performances was ok when new,
but the life span was very poor. Put it this way, my original drill came
with 3 batteries, one of which started failing after some 8 years. I
bought an ebay replacement, and it needed replacing along with the
remaining 2 of the original set about a year later.


I've had several "third party" replacement Makita batteries, two had
shorter life than originals (probably 50% though, so still cost
effective), others have been more or less comparable. And I have had
shortish life out of one original.

According to my lads who have researched this more, some Makita
hardware *including batteries* is being advertised as having a free
replacement offer. Sounds unlikely to me especially for batteries, but
possibly if their "multiplier" is right it might be worth doing to
keep users locked into the brand. One of them is about to try it out
(six months of very hard use).

My experience of replacing Nicad with Nimh has not been good. I
find the output currents are lower and the periods between recharges
shorter. YMMV.

NiMh tend to have higher auto discharge characteristics - so if left on
the shelf for a few weeks they are more likely to be flat than NiCd.

I don't understand why battery makers don't come up with
Li battery packs and chargers to replace Nicad packs. The market must be
big enough and Li control chips are now only a few pence each.

Probably because its more in their interest to sell new tools. ;-)

You may also find that the current demand of the tool is different. I am
not sure whether the tool itself has any battery protection built in, or
if that is implemented just in the battery. You would need a new charger
as well in most cases. By the time you have done that you have spent the
lions share of the price of the whole tool.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
On 01/08/2016 17:37, Capitol wrote:
newshound wrote:
On 8/1/2016 10:36 AM, John Rumm wrote:
On 01/08/2016 08:46, PeterC wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 13:03:18 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

On 31/07/2016 08:45, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
I am just wondering if there might be any gotyas...

Long ago I bought a Makita drill kit with 3x 18v 1.3Ah NiCad
battery
packs and its charger. The charger is marked 7.2 to 18v, NiCad or
NiMh.
two of the packs now need replacing, but I am thinking to recell
them as
a cheaper option.

Its a nice theory, but in the past I have found the cost of buying
decent cells has always worked out more than buying new OEM
batteries...

(a bit of shopping around got three 2.8Ah NiMh packs for about £150)

Are this ort of replacement any good? Seem to have good feedback. My
18V
Makita battaeries are shagged and, althogh I have a new 18V Bosch
combi,
having 3 or 4 drills is usefull at times:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/18V-3-0AH-...item20cfa44b49



vendor is:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/168battery...p2047675.l2559


Based on my previous experience, I would stump up the extra money
for a
real one. I did try an ebay 3Ah battery. Performances was ok when
new,
but the life span was very poor. Put it this way, my original drill
came
with 3 batteries, one of which started failing after some 8 years. I
bought an ebay replacement, and it needed replacing along with the
remaining 2 of the original set about a year later.


I've had several "third party" replacement Makita batteries, two had
shorter life than originals (probably 50% though, so still cost
effective), others have been more or less comparable. And I have had
shortish life out of one original.

According to my lads who have researched this more, some Makita
hardware *including batteries* is being advertised as having a free
replacement offer. Sounds unlikely to me especially for batteries, but
possibly if their "multiplier" is right it might be worth doing to
keep users locked into the brand. One of them is about to try it out
(six months of very hard use).

My experience of replacing Nicad with Nimh has not been good. I
find the output currents are lower and the periods between recharges
shorter. YMMV.

NiMh tend to have higher auto discharge characteristics - so if left
on the shelf for a few weeks they are more likely to be flat than NiCd.

I don't understand why battery makers don't come up with
Li battery packs and chargers to replace Nicad packs. The market must be
big enough and Li control chips are now only a few pence each.

Probably because its more in their interest to sell new tools. ;-)

You may also find that the current demand of the tool is different. I
am not sure whether the tool itself has any battery protection built
in, or if that is implemented just in the battery. You would need a
new charger as well in most cases. By the time you have done that you
have spent the lions share of the price of the whole tool.




The charger is very inexpensive. Just look at ipad etc chargers.
The tool battery pack has battery low voltage protection chips. These
are now very cheap because of the production volume. There are a few Li
replacements for some manufacturers, Sears, I believe.

On 01/08/16 17:37, Capitol wrote:
I don't understand why battery makers don't come up with Li battery
packs and chargers to replace Nicad packs. The market must be big enough
and Li control chips are now only a few pence each.
largely because the voltages are incompatible
3 nickel is about one lithium. voltage wise.
7 nickel is about two lithium. voltage wise.
10 nickel is about 3 lithium.

etc.

--
If I had all the money I've spent on drink...
...I'd spend it on drink.

Sir Henry (at Rawlinson's End)