"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , Hector
writes


"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , T i m
writes
On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 10:40:26 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

snip

I've not heard whether the EU are sticking to their position from last
week that even at the end of the 2 year process we won't have a trade
deal with them, but we can start talking about it.

I thought it will take 2 years from the filing of Article 50 leave
(work as usual until that point) and 'typically' 10 years to negotiate
a new trade deal with the EU *and* any country that we used to deal
with as a member of the EU.

Two years is the specified maximum under A50

Not with a new trade deal. Article 50 is silent on those.

New trade deal is irrelevant.

No it is not, it is obviously something a leaving country
is going to be interested in getting if it can get that.

It's "agreement" that matters with or
without any trade deal.

And there isnt going to be any agreement without one
so leaving will take the full 2 years from when Article 50
is invoked unless the EU chooses to have an agreement
to get rid of Britain as quickly as possible.

I believe we can continue actually trading under the WTO rules but
have no idea how good or restrictive that will be (across all goods /
services).

In article , Hector
writes


"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , Hector
writes


"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 16:27:17 +0100, bert wrote:

snip

I thought it will take 2 years from the filing of Article 50 leave
(work as usual until that point) and 'typically' 10 years to negotiate
a new trade deal with the EU *and* any country that we used to deal
with as a member of the EU.

Two years is the specified maximum under A50

Ok, so it could be done a lot quicker (officially)?

Yes, but only when agreement happens and that isnt going to happen.

It can be extended by mutual agreement.

And that isn't going to happen given that the EU wants
Britain out of the EU as quickly as possible now that
Britain has decided to leave. That's why Junker etc have
been demanding Britain invoke Article 50 immediately,
to get Britain out as quickly as possible.

Junker may not be around much longer. He's a bigger ****head than Farage
apparently. In any case it is the Council which is responsible for the
negotiations not the Commission.
No agreement then membership automatically lapses after 2 years.

Yes.

There's no provision for change of mind.

That's a lie. Britain is free to change its mind and decide
that it doesn't want to leave and not ever invoke Article 50.
No provision in Article 50 for changing of mind.
--
bert
It's hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys.

"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , Hector
writes


"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , Hector
writes


"T i m" wrote in message
m...
On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 16:27:17 +0100, bert wrote:

snip

I thought it will take 2 years from the filing of Article 50 leave
(work as usual until that point) and 'typically' 10 years to
negotiate
a new trade deal with the EU *and* any country that we used to deal
with as a member of the EU.

Two years is the specified maximum under A50

Ok, so it could be done a lot quicker (officially)?

Yes, but only when agreement happens and that isnt going to happen.

It can be extended by mutual agreement.

And that isn't going to happen given that the EU wants
Britain out of the EU as quickly as possible now that
Britain has decided to leave. That's why Junker etc have
been demanding Britain invoke Article 50 immediately,
to get Britain out as quickly as possible.

Junker may not be around much longer. He's a bigger ****head than Farage
apparently. In any case it is the Council which is responsible for the
negotiations not the Commission.
No agreement then membership automatically lapses after 2 years.

Yes.

There's no provision for change of mind.

That's a lie. Britain is free to change its mind and decide
that it doesn't want to leave and not ever invoke Article 50.

No provision in Article 50 for changing of mind.

Article 50 is completely irrelevant if it hasn't been invoked.

And Article 50 say very explicitly indeed that the country
that leaves is free to join again if it wants to. And obviously
has to comply with the current condition countries have
to meet to be allowed to join.

In article , Hector
writes


"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , Hector
writes


"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , Hector
writes


"T i m" wrote in message
om...
On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 16:27:17 +0100, bert wrote:

snip

I thought it will take 2 years from the filing of Article 50 leave
(work as usual until that point) and 'typically' 10 years to
negotiate
a new trade deal with the EU *and* any country that we used to deal
with as a member of the EU.

Two years is the specified maximum under A50

Ok, so it could be done a lot quicker (officially)?

Yes, but only when agreement happens and that isnt going to happen.

It can be extended by mutual agreement.

And that isn't going to happen given that the EU wants
Britain out of the EU as quickly as possible now that
Britain has decided to leave. That's why Junker etc have
been demanding Britain invoke Article 50 immediately,
to get Britain out as quickly as possible.

Junker may not be around much longer. He's a bigger ****head than
Farage apparently. In any case it is the Council which is responsible
for the negotiations not the Commission.
No agreement then membership automatically lapses after 2 years.

Yes.

There's no provision for change of mind.

That's a lie. Britain is free to change its mind and decide
that it doesn't want to leave and not ever invoke Article 50.

No provision in Article 50 for changing of mind.

Article 50 is completely irrelevant if it hasn't been invoked.

Your comment is completely irrelevant in this context
And Article 50 say very explicitly indeed that the country
that leaves is free to join again if it wants to. And obviously
has to comply with the current condition countries have
to meet to be allowed to join.

Article 50 has no provision for a country changing its mind during the
negotiation process. You can't rejoin until you have left.
End of conversation.
--
bert

In article , Tim Streater
writes
In article , bert
wrote:

In article , Hector
writes


"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , Hector
writes


"T i m" wrote in message
om...
On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 16:27:17 +0100, bert wrote:

snip

I thought it will take 2 years from the filing of Article 50 leave
(work as usual until that point) and 'typically' 10 years to negotiate
a new trade deal with the EU *and* any country that we used to deal
with as a member of the EU.

Two years is the specified maximum under A50

Ok, so it could be done a lot quicker (officially)?

Yes, but only when agreement happens and that isnt going to happen.

It can be extended by mutual agreement.

And that isn't going to happen given that the EU wants
Britain out of the EU as quickly as possible now that
Britain has decided to leave. That's why Junker etc have
been demanding Britain invoke Article 50 immediately,
to get Britain out as quickly as possible.

Junker may not be around much longer. He's a bigger ****head than
Farage apparently.

Didn't stop him being voted for 26-2 or whatever it was, when Cameron
tried to block him.

Well he was a compromise candidate. That's what happens in the EU. You
end up with a non-entity in a very senior position.
--
bert

"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , Hector
writes


"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , Hector
writes


"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , Hector
writes


"T i m" wrote in message
news:d0kqnbpud2f80tr4p0g3df0ificqpvfjjg@4ax. com...
On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 16:27:17 +0100, bert wrote:

snip

I thought it will take 2 years from the filing of Article 50 leave
(work as usual until that point) and 'typically' 10 years to
negotiate
a new trade deal with the EU *and* any country that we used to deal
with as a member of the EU.

Two years is the specified maximum under A50

Ok, so it could be done a lot quicker (officially)?

Yes, but only when agreement happens and that isnt going to happen.

It can be extended by mutual agreement.

And that isn't going to happen given that the EU wants
Britain out of the EU as quickly as possible now that
Britain has decided to leave. That's why Junker etc have
been demanding Britain invoke Article 50 immediately,
to get Britain out as quickly as possible.

Junker may not be around much longer. He's a bigger ****head than Farage
apparently. In any case it is the Council which is responsible for the
negotiations not the Commission.
No agreement then membership automatically lapses after 2 years.

Yes.

There's no provision for change of mind.

That's a lie. Britain is free to change its mind and decide
that it doesn't want to leave and not ever invoke Article 50.

No provision in Article 50 for changing of mind.

Article 50 is completely irrelevant if it hasn't been invoked.

Your comment is completely irrelevant in this context
And Article 50 say very explicitly indeed that the country
that leaves is free to join again if it wants to. And obviously
has to comply with the current condition countries have
to meet to be allowed to join.

Article 50 has no provision for a country changing its mind during the
negotiation process. You can't rejoin until you have left.

But that is just 2 years at most. So no big deal if the country changes its
mind.

End of conversation.

Nope.