I'm coming to the end of the first year in this house and seeing as
winter is nearly here thought I should get the boiler checked which is
booked for Monday.

However I now wonder whether I should get the 11 radiator system
flushed and I'll discuss that when the service man arrives but I want
to be prepared. Over the phone he's said around £340 - cleaning out,
running on low with chemicals for a couple of weeks, power flush (I
think that was the sequence).

The boiler is a Baxi 105HE and the vendor says it was put in around
2007/2008 though there is no paperwork. I got him to get it serviced
last year and that required a new gasket and flue which seems a lot
for a not very old boiler. I also know he was financially stretched
and would have done everything at a minimal cost.

A couple of photos at:

https://flic.kr/p/Jw8rUB
https://flic.kr/p/Jw8rgx

Am I right in seeing that there is a drain point at the bottom right
(there is a square screw in the end) and that the system is rigged for
easy flushing (the flexible pipe). I don't know what the top-up
arrangement is - any idea how to find out?

I can hear light "tinkling" in the radiators (yes the heating is still
on), and a couple of radiators "sing" but that might be the TRV valves
as giving them a bit of a turn fixes that for a while anyway.

Is it easy to see whether the fluid is in a bad state? The water
around here isn't very nice, seems to leave a brown/black residue on
my toothbrush.

£340 is quite a lot of money - don't know if I'm confident enough to
try it myself and need to ask the right questions on Monday. I've
read the Wiki but any further advice welcomed. Thanks.

(PS If anyone is going to rubbish the Baxi please support it with an
alternative).

Oh - and is flushing going to save me any energy or is it pure
maintenance and radiator longevity?

--
AnthonyL

I was expecting from the title that this would need an answer such as:

If it's yellow
Let it mellow

If it's brown
Flush it down

:-)

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 22:06:12 +0100, NY wrote:

I was expecting from the title that this would need an answer such as:

If it's yellow
Let it mellow

If it's brown
Flush it down

:-)

Umm...that sounds more like something in a toilet pan!

On 29/06/2016 21:01, AnthonyL wrote:

I'm coming to the end of the first year in this house and seeing as
winter is nearly here thought I should get the boiler checked which is
booked for Monday.

However I now wonder whether I should get the 11 radiator system
flushed and I'll discuss that when the service man arrives but I want
to be prepared. Over the phone he's said around £340 - cleaning out,
running on low with chemicals for a couple of weeks, power flush (I
think that was the sequence).

The boiler is a Baxi 105HE and the vendor says it was put in around
2007/2008 though there is no paperwork. I got him to get it serviced
last year and that required a new gasket and flue which seems a lot
for a not very old boiler. I also know he was financially stretched
and would have done everything at a minimal cost.

With HE boilers its important that the system be flushed and made
scrupulously clean prior to installation. So hopefully that was done.
(if not, then the damage is probably done by now).

As long as its been properly treated with inhibitor since, there is
unlikely to be a need to do it again.

Do you have a filter device in the system? If so, drain that and see
what the collected "stuff" is like.


A couple of photos at:

https://flic.kr/p/Jw8rUB
https://flic.kr/p/Jw8rgx

Am I right in seeing that there is a drain point at the bottom right
(there is a square screw in the end)

Yes, that is *a* drain point. (there may be others in the system
depending on the pipe layout)

and that the system is rigged for
easy flushing (the flexible pipe). I don't know what the top-up
arrangement is - any idea how to find out?

The flexible pipe *is* the topup arrangement. There should be a pressure
dial on the boiler somewhere to indicate the system pressure.

You can also use the filling loop to inject water for flushing. Although
its only going to flush in one direction. You also need to take care to
*not* do the initial flush with the boiler actually in circuit (i.e. you
don't want to shift all the crud and dump it straight into your HE). So
you may be better draining or injecting the flushing water at a radiator
position rather than at that drain point depending on which locations
let you flush the majority of the system without going through the
boiler (you can use its service valves at the base of the boiler to
isolate it from the system)

I can hear light "tinkling" in the radiators (yes the heating is still

That might be air (or other gas) circulating. Check the inhibitor level,
or if in doubt add some more.

on), and a couple of radiators "sing" but that might be the TRV valves

Yup probably.

as giving them a bit of a turn fixes that for a while anyway.

Is it easy to see whether the fluid is in a bad state? The water
around here isn't very nice, seems to leave a brown/black residue on
my toothbrush.

£340 is quite a lot of money - don't know if I'm confident enough to
try it myself and need to ask the right questions on Monday. I've
read the Wiki but any further advice welcomed. Thanks.

Its not difficult to do (mains pressure) flushing yourself, although a
bit tedious and time consuming.


(PS If anyone is going to rubbish the Baxi please support it with an
alternative).

Oh - and is flushing going to save me any energy or is it pure
maintenance and radiator longevity?

Only on a badly sludged up system. (minor sludge may also cause
premature failure of the boiler, so that will also cost money but for a
different reason!)



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Wednesday, 29 June 2016 21:01:55 UTC+1, AnthonyL wrote:
I'm coming to the end of the first year in this house and seeing as
winter is nearly here thought I should get the boiler checked which is
booked for Monday.

However I now wonder whether I should get the 11 radiator system
flushed and I'll discuss that when the service man arrives but I want
to be prepared. Over the phone he's said around £340 - cleaning out,
running on low with chemicals for a couple of weeks, power flush (I
think that was the sequence).

The boiler is a Baxi 105HE and the vendor says it was put in around
2007/2008 though there is no paperwork. I got him to get it serviced
last year and that required a new gasket and flue which seems a lot
for a not very old boiler. I also know he was financially stretched
and would have done everything at a minimal cost.

A couple of photos at:

https://flic.kr/p/Jw8rUB
https://flic.kr/p/Jw8rgx

Am I right in seeing that there is a drain point at the bottom right
(there is a square screw in the end) and that the system is rigged for
easy flushing (the flexible pipe). I don't know what the top-up
arrangement is - any idea how to find out?

I can hear light "tinkling" in the radiators (yes the heating is still
on), and a couple of radiators "sing" but that might be the TRV valves
as giving them a bit of a turn fixes that for a while anyway.

Is it easy to see whether the fluid is in a bad state? The water
around here isn't very nice, seems to leave a brown/black residue on
my toothbrush.

£340 is quite a lot of money - don't know if I'm confident enough to
try it myself and need to ask the right questions on Monday. I've
read the Wiki but any further advice welcomed. Thanks.

(PS If anyone is going to rubbish the Baxi please support it with an
alternative).

Oh - and is flushing going to save me any energy or is it pure
maintenance and radiator longevity?

--
AnthonyL

It's not possible to remove ALL the crud in a system by simple flushing.
The best that can be hoped for is to dislodge loose crud that might move and settle in the boiler.
The only way to remove it all is to remove each radiator and flush out with a hose. There's probably not a lot of benefit in this and the possibility of starting a leak.
A good thing to fit is one of these magnetic filters that catches most of the crud which is mostly iron (oxides) which you don't want in your (probably aluminium) new boiler.
You can open it from time to time and see if the inhibitor is doing it's job.
There may be a little crud initially but later none.

There are different inhibitors depending on the metals in your system.

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 23:44:30 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

On 29/06/2016 21:01, AnthonyL wrote:

I'm coming to the end of the first year in this house and seeing as
winter is nearly here thought I should get the boiler checked which is
booked for Monday.

However I now wonder whether I should get the 11 radiator system
flushed and I'll discuss that when the service man arrives but I want
to be prepared. Over the phone he's said around £340 - cleaning out,
running on low with chemicals for a couple of weeks, power flush (I
think that was the sequence).

The boiler is a Baxi 105HE and the vendor says it was put in around
2007/2008 though there is no paperwork. I got him to get it serviced
last year and that required a new gasket and flue which seems a lot
for a not very old boiler. I also know he was financially stretched
and would have done everything at a minimal cost.

With HE boilers its important that the system be flushed and made
scrupulously clean prior to installation. So hopefully that was done.
(if not, then the damage is probably done by now).


I'll see if I can find out from the vendor but with the lack of
paperwork and knowing other things that have been bodged in the house
it is a worry.

As long as its been properly treated with inhibitor since, there is
unlikely to be a need to do it again.

Do you have a filter device in the system? If so, drain that and see
what the collected "stuff" is like.


I don't know - where would it be?


A couple of photos at:

https://flic.kr/p/Jw8rUB
https://flic.kr/p/Jw8rgx

Am I right in seeing that there is a drain point at the bottom right
(there is a square screw in the end)

Yes, that is *a* drain point. (there may be others in the system
depending on the pipe layout)

and that the system is rigged for
easy flushing (the flexible pipe). I don't know what the top-up
arrangement is - any idea how to find out?

The flexible pipe *is* the topup arrangement. There should be a pressure
dial on the boiler somewhere to indicate the system pressure.


Yes there's a pressure dial. It's reading 1 bar at the moment
(recommendate range 1 - 2.5 bar). I presume this is incoming mains
pressure? So the radiator system is all at mains pressure? If so
what happens if there is a leak when on holiday?

You can also use the filling loop to inject water for flushing. Although
its only going to flush in one direction. You also need to take care to
*not* do the initial flush with the boiler actually in circuit (i.e. you
don't want to shift all the crud and dump it straight into your HE). So
you may be better draining or injecting the flushing water at a radiator
position rather than at that drain point depending on which locations
let you flush the majority of the system without going through the
boiler (you can use its service valves at the base of the boiler to
isolate it from the system)

I can hear light "tinkling" in the radiators (yes the heating is still

That might be air (or other gas) circulating. Check the inhibitor level,
or if in doubt add some more.


This sounds the most practical path plus a double check that there are
no cold spots on the tops of the radiators.

on), and a couple of radiators "sing" but that might be the TRV valves

Yup probably.

as giving them a bit of a turn fixes that for a while anyway.

Is it easy to see whether the fluid is in a bad state? The water
around here isn't very nice, seems to leave a brown/black residue on
my toothbrush.

£340 is quite a lot of money - don't know if I'm confident enough to
try it myself and need to ask the right questions on Monday. I've
read the Wiki but any further advice welcomed. Thanks.

Its not difficult to do (mains pressure) flushing yourself, although a
bit tedious and time consuming.


I'm not sure that I'm fully up to not messing it all up.


Oh - and is flushing going to save me any energy or is it pure
maintenance and radiator longevity?

Only on a badly sludged up system. (minor sludge may also cause
premature failure of the boiler, so that will also cost money but for a
different reason!)


Thank you
--
AnthonyL

AnthonyL wrote:

John Rumm wrote:

The flexible pipe *is* the topup arrangement. There should be a pressure
dial on the boiler somewhere to indicate the system pressure.

Yes there's a pressure dial. It's reading 1 bar at the moment
(recommendate range 1 - 2.5 bar). I presume this is incoming mains
pressure? So the radiator system is all at mains pressure?

The filling loop isn't intended to be left permanently connected,
(though I gather most are) meant to fill to pressurise it, perhaps
relieve pressure if it's above the max, then disconnect.

If so what happens if there is a leak when on holiday?

If the valves at the end(s) of the filling loop are left turned on,
it'll be a very big leak!

I was wondering where this person was to be thinking of Winter.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
I was expecting from the title that this would need an answer such as:

If it's yellow
Let it mellow

If it's brown
Flush it down

:-)

Exactly. go to the top of the class.
Actually I do not have any central heating which requires plumbing.
I wonder if somebody could make a system using microwaves running through
waveguides to graphite loads where the radiators would be?
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Martin Barclay" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 22:06:12 +0100, NY wrote:

I was expecting from the title that this would need an answer such as:

If it's yellow
Let it mellow

If it's brown
Flush it down

:-)

Umm...that sounds more like something in a toilet pan!

On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 10:04:21 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

AnthonyL wrote:

John Rumm wrote:

The flexible pipe *is* the topup arrangement. There should be a pressure
dial on the boiler somewhere to indicate the system pressure.

Yes there's a pressure dial. It's reading 1 bar at the moment
(recommendate range 1 - 2.5 bar). I presume this is incoming mains
pressure? So the radiator system is all at mains pressure?

The filling loop isn't intended to be left permanently connected,
(though I gather most are) meant to fill to pressurise it, perhaps
relieve pressure if it's above the max, then disconnect.


Ah - looking more closely at my photo it looks as if the pipe in
either feeds to the boiler (default) or turn the tap to feed the
radiators.

If so what happens if there is a leak when on holiday?

If the valves at the end(s) of the filling loop are left turned on,
it'll be a very big leak!


Ok - so I'll just lose the water in the radiator system as thing
stand.

--
AnthonyL

On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 10:51:21 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

I was wondering where this person was to be thinking of Winter.

Bloody felt like it this past week or so. Touch of sun so far today.

--
AnthonyL

"Martin Barclay" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 22:06:12 +0100, NY wrote:

I was expecting from the title that this would need an answer such as:

If it's yellow
Let it mellow

If it's brown
Flush it down

:-)

Umm...that sounds more like something in a toilet pan!

Precisely. I saw "to flush or not to flush" and didn't notice the "(CH)" on
the end, and remembered the old Boy Sprout motto for conserving water on
Scout Camp holidays :-) I imagine Girl Guides are taught the same thing.

On 30/06/2016 10:04, Andy Burns wrote:
AnthonyL wrote:

John Rumm wrote:

The flexible pipe *is* the topup arrangement. There should be a pressure
dial on the boiler somewhere to indicate the system pressure.

Yes there's a pressure dial. It's reading 1 bar at the moment
(recommendate range 1 - 2.5 bar). I presume this is incoming mains
pressure? So the radiator system is all at mains pressure?

No, the mains pressure will be much higher usually. You will the system
until it reaches the required "cold" pressure (typically abound 1 bar),
and then turn off the taps and ideally disconnect the flexi pipe.

The filling loop isn't intended to be left permanently connected,
(though I gather most are) meant to fill to pressurise it, perhaps
relieve pressure if it's above the max, then disconnect.

You can't use the filling loop to relieve pressure - there should be a
non return valve on the heating side to prevent escape of contaminated
water.

If so what happens if there is a leak when on holiday?

If the valves at the end(s) of the filling loop are left turned on,
it'll be a very big leak!

Indeed. One of the advantages of a sealed system is that there is only a
finite amount of water than can leak.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
"Brian Gaff" wrote:

I was wondering where this person was to be thinking of Winter.

The _bloody North of England_: incessant rain this week, and 12 deg on
Tuesday. Yesterday we had a bit of a respite, and it didn't rain for
almost all the day. Last week I was in Montreal: around 30 degrees all
the time, and they expect 20-30 the whole summer. (They get proper
winters there, like, but at least the city authorities are properly
geared up for them.)

J.

Recently did my sons system .... drained out all that was in there run
on fresh till hot drained again ... then filled and added a cleaner.
Left it run for a week (rads were in use) then did drain & flush again
.... then refilled adding inhibitor.

Cost was under £20

You can save a lot of money doing it yourself ...

On Fri, 1 Jul 2016 21:36:41 +0100, rick
wrote:

Recently did my sons system .... drained out all that was in there run
on fresh till hot drained again ... then filled and added a cleaner.
Left it run for a week (rads were in use) then did drain & flush again
... then refilled adding inhibitor.

Cost was under £20

You can save a lot of money doing it yourself ...

And I guess I could cause a lot of damage *

Did you back flush? Where/how do you add the cleaner? How did you
avoid sludge being driven into the boiler?

*eg my car MOT and service was due yesterday so I thought I'd just go
over things to ensure no avoidable costs. Thought I'd clear the crud
out of the cigarette lighter which sits vertically next to the gear
stick. Used a screwdriver forgetting that the point was still live
when the ignition was off and thinking I was steady enough anyway.
Flash - all auxiliary power outlets out of action.



--
AnthonyL

"AnthonyL" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 1 Jul 2016 21:36:41 +0100, rick
wrote:

Recently did my sons system .... drained out all that was in there run
on fresh till hot drained again ... then filled and added a cleaner.
Left it run for a week (rads were in use) then did drain & flush again
... then refilled adding inhibitor.

Cost was under £20

You can save a lot of money doing it yourself ...

And I guess I could cause a lot of damage *

Did you back flush? Where/how do you add the cleaner? How did you
avoid sludge being driven into the boiler?

*eg my car MOT and service was due yesterday so I thought I'd just go
over things to ensure no avoidable costs. Thought I'd clear the crud
out of the cigarette lighter which sits vertically next to the gear
stick. Used a screwdriver forgetting that the point was still live
when the ignition was off and thinking I was steady enough anyway.
Flash - all auxiliary power outlets out of action.

Been there. Done that. Quick trip to Halfords needed to buy a 15A fuse. What
was frustrating was that I had bought a big box of fuses ages ago so I
looked for it in the boot and found that the fuses on this car are a smaller
size than on all the previous cars I've owned - I wish they'd use a standard
size now and for ever more. I ought to buy a box of these small fuses - much
cheaper than buying them one at a time - but knowing my luck my next car
will yet another size of fuse :-(