In a bungalow, the front and back doors are both aluminium
and have pins that come out of the top and bottom.

In the case of the front door, it is impossible to raise the handle to
move the pins out, so I presume that they never move.

I removed all the visible screws and the lock barrel from the door, but
the lock itself did not want to come out.


In the case of the back door the pins move out if you raise the handle
and back if you lower the handle, but you can do this regardless of
whether the door is locked or not. So not much use! I have not tried to
take it to pieces.

The locks on both doors are made by Union. Is it likely that they can be
made so that you have to raise the handle to push the pins out before
you can turn the key to lock the door?

The previous owner of the house was probably quite old, so the doors
might have been changed to make them easier to open and close.


Further questions:

1. Is changing a lock barrel to work with a different key a DIY job?

2. Is there a significant security risk having a lock barrel with a knob
on the inside, thus obviating the need for a key to open the door from
the inside?


--
Michael Chare

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On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 21:59:55 +0100, Michael Chare wrote:

Further questions:

1. Is changing a lock barrel to work with a different key a DIY job?

Are they "Eurolocks"?

2. Is there a significant security risk having a lock barrel with a knob
on the inside, thus obviating the need for a key to open the door from
the inside?

Is there a glass panel in the door?

On Thursday, 16 June 2016 22:00:09 UTC+1, Michael Chare wrote:
1. Is changing a lock barrel to work with a different key a DIY job?

Usually yes, provided you can get the old cylinder out and replace it with a new one (and the new one is identical to the old - I got caught with an identical replacement which wasn't and I had to do some minor chiselling in a wooden door)

2. Is there a significant security risk having a lock barrel with a knob
on the inside, thus obviating the need for a key to open the door from
the inside?

Yes, in that if the door has glass which can be broken, or if the crim can enter through a window and then open the door to escape more quickly carrying loot. HOWEVER having a locked door which requires a key to open is a significant risk in the event of fire. A thumbturn lock should always be used when the building is occupied.

Pass on the specifics of your lock and aluminium door mechanism.

Owain

On 16/06/2016 21:59, Michael Chare wrote:
In a bungalow, the front and back doors are both aluminium
and have pins that come out of the top and bottom.

In the case of the front door, it is impossible to raise the handle to
move the pins out, so I presume that they never move.

I removed all the visible screws and the lock barrel from the door, but
the lock itself did not want to come out.

You mean this bit?

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Iron...nt+Lock/p54397


In the case of the back door the pins move out if you raise the handle
and back if you lower the handle, but you can do this regardless of
whether the door is locked or not.

That's what usually happens.

The locks on both doors are made by Union. Is it likely that they can be
made so that you have to raise the handle to push the pins out before
you can turn the key to lock the door?

There are two things. One is the lock, the other is the locking
mechanism inside the door, the actual lock only "locks" the mechanism.

All the doors I've come across you have to lift the handles to engage
the pins before the lock can be turned.

The previous owner of the house was probably quite old, so the doors
might have been changed to make them easier to open and close.


Further questions:

1. Is changing a lock barrel to work with a different key a DIY job?

Easy. Look at the door edge and there will be a single screw exactly
level with the centre of the cylinder. Remove it (they are 2" to 3"
long). Now turn the key a little to 11 o'clock or 1 o'clock and pull/
push and the barrel should come out. They look like this;

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Iron...ylinder/p79486

You can see the threaded hole where the screw is. Turning the key
slightly move the black bit into line with the silver bit allowing it to
come out.

Measure (mm) from the front to the hole, then from the hole to the back
to get the size. It might be something like 30/35 or 40/40.

2. Is there a significant security risk having a lock barrel with a knob
on the inside, thus obviating the need for a key to open the door from
the inside?

There is if a window can be broken so someone could reach in. You have
to balance this against the ease of exit in case of fire. If it takes
you 3 minutes to find the keys the hall could be full of smoke. I have
a thumb turn even though I have a window.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman

On 16/06/2016 22:18, Adrian wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 21:59:55 +0100, Michael Chare wrote:

Further questions:

1. Is changing a lock barrel to work with a different key a DIY job?

Are they "Eurolocks"?

Yes


2. Is there a significant security risk having a lock barrel with a knob
on the inside, thus obviating the need for a key to open the door from
the inside?

Is there a glass panel in the door?


Yes, but the glass is patterned so you could not see a knob.


--
Michael Chare

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On 6/16/2016 11:07 PM, Michael Chare wrote:
On 16/06/2016 22:18, Adrian wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 21:59:55 +0100, Michael Chare wrote:

Further questions:

1. Is changing a lock barrel to work with a different key a DIY job?

Are they "Eurolocks"?

Yes


2. Is there a significant security risk having a lock barrel with a knob
on the inside, thus obviating the need for a key to open the door from
the inside?

Is there a glass panel in the door?


Yes, but the glass is patterned so you could not see a knob.


Police hate knobs (security), firemen love them (safety). Your choice.
FWIW I converted my elderly mother's to knobs.

I
On 16/06/2016 22:22, wrote:
On Thursday, 16 June 2016 22:00:09 UTC+1, Michael Chare wrote:
1. Is changing a lock barrel to work with a different key a DIY job?

Usually yes, provided you can get the old cylinder out and replace it with a new one (and the new one is identical to the old - I got caught with an identical replacement which wasn't and I had to do some minor chiselling in a wooden door)


Replacing a Eurolock barrel with another barrel is generally quite easy.
What I was wondering was whether I could make one of the barrels that I
have work with a different key. Is it a DIY job?



2. Is there a significant security risk having a lock barrel with a knob
on the inside, thus obviating the need for a key to open the door from
the inside?

Yes, in that if the door has glass which can be broken, or if the crim can enter through a window and then open the door to escape more quickly carrying loot. HOWEVER having a locked door which requires a key to open is a significant risk in the event of fire. A thumbturn lock should always be used when the building is occupied.

Pass on the specifics of your lock and aluminium door mechanism.


I suspect what I have is something like this:

http://upvcspares4repairs.co.uk/ever...door-lock.html

I need to take the door to pieces again to check properly.



--
Michael Chare

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Michael Chare wrote:
In a bungalow, the front and back doors are both aluminium
and have pins that come out of the top and bottom.

In the case of the front door, it is impossible to raise the handle to
move the pins out, so I presume that they never move.

I removed all the visible screws and the lock barrel from the door, but
the lock itself did not want to come out.


If it's a eurolock, the key must be inserted and turned through about 30
degrees before the lock barrel can be removed. Just needs a bit of trial
and error and jiggling. The barrel is held by just one screw.



In the case of the back door the pins move out if you raise the handle
and back if you lower the handle, but you can do this regardless of
whether the door is locked or not.

That's not right.

So not much use! I have not tried to
take it to pieces.

The locks on both doors are made by Union. Is it likely that they can be
made so that you have to raise the handle to push the pins out before
you can turn the key to lock the door?

That's how they usually work.


The previous owner of the house was probably quite old, so the doors
might have been changed to make them easier to open and close.


Further questions:

1. Is changing a lock barrel to work with a different key a DIY job?

Yes. Very easy. Just one screw and the old key needed.


2. Is there a significant security risk having a lock barrel with a knob
on the inside, thus obviating the need for a key to open the door from
the inside?

Logically there must be but seeing as we usually leave the keys in the lock
for speedy exit in case of fire etc, it makes no difference to us and we
have knobs now.

Tim

--
Trolls AND TROLL FEEDERS all go in my kill file

On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 23:07:37 +0100, Michael Chare wrote:

Further questions:

1. Is changing a lock barrel to work with a different key a DIY job?

Are they "Eurolocks"?

Yes

So very easy to change the barrel, then.

2. Is there a significant security risk having a lock barrel with a
knob on the inside, thus obviating the need for a key to open the door
from the inside?

Is there a glass panel in the door?

Yes, but the glass is patterned so you could not see a knob.

But somebody could smash the glass, reach through, and turn it.

On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 23:27:49 +0100, Michael Chare wrote:

What I was wondering was whether I could make one of the barrels that I
have work with a different key. Is it a DIY job?

More hassle than it's worth.

These sorts of locks are a real pain if you, for example want to lock the
inside door, but leave the porch unlocked and allow tradesmen ie carriers
to put large stuff in the porch. Of course security is compromised but in my
case Iwas happy to have it like that. The problem came in finding any kind
of porch door where you did not need a key to get in.

They, in the end had to specially modify a door with a new locking
mechanism.

Luckily mine was upvc not alluminium!
Brian

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"Michael Chare" wrote in message
...
In a bungalow, the front and back doors are both aluminium
and have pins that come out of the top and bottom.

In the case of the front door, it is impossible to raise the handle to
move the pins out, so I presume that they never move.

I removed all the visible screws and the lock barrel from the door, but
the lock itself did not want to come out.


In the case of the back door the pins move out if you raise the handle and
back if you lower the handle, but you can do this regardless of whether
the door is locked or not. So not much use! I have not tried to take it to
pieces.

The locks on both doors are made by Union. Is it likely that they can be
made so that you have to raise the handle to push the pins out before you
can turn the key to lock the door?

The previous owner of the house was probably quite old, so the doors might
have been changed to make them easier to open and close.


Further questions:

1. Is changing a lock barrel to work with a different key a DIY job?

2. Is there a significant security risk having a lock barrel with a knob
on the inside, thus obviating the need for a key to open the door from the
inside?


--
Michael Chare

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 08:37:44 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:


Is there any significant difference in use between a knob on the
inside and just leaving a key in the lock? The latter strikes me as
being more flexible, in that you can remove the key when you go out,
for example, thus improving the security, but leave it in when you're
at home, thus also having the safety aspect.

Many years ago during one of the then periodic fireman's strikes I
attended a house fire in which a family of four died. The bodies were
all at the front door which was locked. The key was later found under
the body of the father. Talking to neighbours and relatives it
appeared the door was usually locked each night and a key was
permanently hung on a hook by the door. I presume that in the dark
and smoke it got dropped before the door could be opened.